Our debt?

Which now stands at £130 million looking at figures on here.

Can anyone explain how this has come to be? I thought the Premiership and all its money was meant to eradicate our debt? If not how has it grown so much?

Granted there was the ridiculous over spend by us in the summer on mostly useless players but that doesn't account for the huge increase. Also work on stadium and training ground etc but taking away the money we get for being in the premiership surely it shouldn't have gone up so much.

I also read on here that we were getting a fair whack from Asia for a variety of reasons.

Can anyone please explain how the debt is so high?

Which now stands at £130 million looking at figures on here.

Can anyone explain how this has come to be? I thought the Premiership and all its money was meant to eradicate our debt? If not how has it grown so much?

Granted there was the ridiculous over spend by us in the summer on mostly useless players but that doesn't account for the huge increase. Also work on stadium and training ground etc but taking away the money we get for being in the premiership surely it shouldn't have gone up so much.

I also read on here that we were getting a fair whack from Asia for a variety of reasons.

Can anyone please explain how the debt is so high?

how much do you think we get from being in the Prem?

we spend a good solid 35m just on transfer fees, not including agents and signing on bonuses and a massive increase in wages.

I can never understand it either. The premier is supposed to be the promised land but teams seem to be financially worse off coming out of the premier than when they go in. It seems to be a false economy. I'm not an economist and I find it all a bit baffling but while they earn a lot more money for getting to the PL, they then have to use that money to keep them there, so it's not seeming to benefit them in reality. Bit like house prices perhaps? Why do people get excited about that? Your house might be worth more money but so is everyone else's....unless you sell up and live in a tent, where's the benefit??

any club can make a profit, as long as its not run by fools. Take swansea for example. for me 25 mil max shud of been spent on players, with wages kept at a minimum. Milky/Moody and Tan to blame for me.

any club can make a profit, as long as its not run by fools. Take swansea for example. for me 25 mil max shud of been spent on players, with wages kept at a minimum. Milky/Moody and Tan to blame for me.

thats easier said than done though isnt it.

Tan could just pocket the money, drive the club into more debt, then sell up.

Is the debt less than the 130 mil, we don't really know a month or so ago on radio Wales one of the presenters said he was told by somebody inside the club it was 80 mil ish, don't believe everything on this forum there are to many agendas to do that

Nobody on this board knows our debt they are all just guessing.

Tan could just pocket the money, drive the club into more debt, then sell up.

Tan pocket the monies.
Drive the club into more debt?
How does he do that without taking it out of his own pocket?

How would he sell up?

Be interesting when the next accounts are released

Tan is doing exactly what Hammam did. Takes a loan against the club, claims it is an investment but then pockets the interest from the loan and will eventually take the money he "invested" in us back.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, our club has just become a f**k jar for businessmen looking to make a quick quid.

Tan wiped the interest off any loans he previously lent and any future loans up to £50m will be tax free.

This was all released in a statement yet some choose to ignore it.

Sam used other peoples money.....big difference.

Tan wiped the interest off any loans he previously lent and any future loans up to £50m will be tax free.

This was all released in a statement yet some choose to ignore it.

Sam used other peoples money.....big difference.

So Tan hasn't released a statement of complete lies and fiction before? I seem to remember him releasing a statement about a certain rebrand not going ahead months before it happened?

Forgive me for being a cynic. It's years of our club being abused by owners. I just don't believe that he's not benefiting from us financially or is risking millions of "investment". He's not stupid.

Tan wiped the interest off any loans he previously lent and any future loans up to £50m will be tax free.

This was all released in a statement yet some choose to ignore it.

Sam used other peoples money.....big difference.

So Tan hasn't released a statement of complete lies and fiction before? I seem to remember him releasing a statement about a certain rebrand not going ahead months before it happened?

Forgive me for being a cynic. It's years of our club being abused by owners. I just don't believe that he's not benefiting from us financially or is risking millions of "investment". He's not stupid.

Speaking of incorrect statements that is totally false. He did back down from his plans for rebrand and re activated them due to Cardiff fans wanting his 100m investment.

To put it simply....

Its like winning £6m on the lottery, collecting it, then spending £8m on sweets and then saying... I thought winning the lottery was supposed to make you rich, how have I lost money?!

Your wage bill is probably close to £55m alone. Plus the £35m transfer fees you spent, plus the expansion, plus the bonuses from promotion etc etc etc

To put it simply....

Its like winning £6m on the lottery, collecting it, then spending £8m on sweets and then saying... I thought winning the lottery was supposed to make you rich, how have I lost money?!

Your wage bill is probably close to £55m alone. Plus the £35m transfer fees you spent, plus the expansion, plus the bonuses from promotion etc etc etc

But the TV money is 48 million is it not? Must have made a dent.

I'd be shocked if our wage bill was near 55 million. We have made signings on pretty large wages but the legacy guys will be on old contracts plus a bit of a rise for premiership but not too much.

55 million would suggest an average of about 40k a week for most of the squad which isn't the case.

To put it simply....

Its like winning £6m on the lottery, collecting it, then spending £8m on sweets and then saying... I thought winning the lottery was supposed to make you rich, how have I lost money?!

Your wage bill is probably close to £55m alone. Plus the £35m transfer fees you spent, plus the expansion, plus the bonuses from promotion etc etc etc

But the TV money is 48 million is it not? Must have made a dent.

I'd be shocked if our wage bill was near 55 million. We have made signings on pretty large wages but the legacy guys will be on old contracts plus a bit of a rise for premiership but not too much.

55 million would suggest an average of about 40k a week for most of the squad which isn't the case.

Our wages last year were £50m. Yours in the championship were £35m. It is almost certainly north of £50m

The TV money doesnt even touch your wages.

To put it simply....

Its like winning £6m on the lottery, collecting it, then spending £8m on sweets and then saying... I thought winning the lottery was supposed to make you rich, how have I lost money?!

Your wage bill is probably close to £55m alone. Plus the £35m transfer fees you spent, plus the expansion, plus the bonuses from promotion etc etc etc

But the TV money is 48 million is it not? Must have made a dent.

I'd be shocked if our wage bill was near 55 million. We have made signings on pretty large wages but the legacy guys will be on old contracts plus a bit of a rise for premiership but not too much.

55 million would suggest an average of about 40k a week for most of the squad which isn't the case.

Our wages last year were £50m. Yours in the championship were £35m. It is almost certainly north of £50m

The TV money doesnt even touch your wages.

Read the article below Roathey, the facts are there rather than your fiction There is another article from a month or so ago which I will dig out when I can be arsed, that the Chairman states that the club will make a £12 million profit in 2013-2014

Cardiff City have recorded a £30m loss in their latest set of financial accounts to take their overall level of debt to £118m.

Within the figures, £66m is owed to owner Vincent Tan from loans to the club, despite the Malaysian businessman converting £2.5m into shares and writing off £5m in interest owed.

Meanwhile the accounts, for the financial period up to May last year, also show life president Sam Hammam’s Langston was paid £22m to solve the historic debt it was owed.

That includes a one-off payment of £15m and further non-interest bearing payments of £7m over a seven-year period.

It is roughly £11m less than what could have been paid given £9m stadium naming rights and a £5m one-off payment for promotion to the Premier League.

Meanwhile roughly £2.5m was paid in June 2013 to clear monies owed to the Cayman Island based Player Finance fund.

Other losses are explained in the accounts for a variety of reasons.

There was a reduction in revenue from £20m in 2012 to just over £17m in 2013.

Added to that, the club’s wages and salaries jumped from £18.5m in 2012 to touching £30m in 2013.

This rise was partly explained as the club “incurred significant bonus payments in relation to its promotion to he Barclays Premier League”.

Also a significant portion of the losses come from a jump of £13m in cost of sales and a massive £8m jump in administration costs.

Cardiff City Supporters Trust board member and accountant Keith Morgan said: “It is worrying, yes.

“What it doesn’t explain is where all the increases come from and why non-footballing costs have gone up so hugely.

“Administration doesn’t include players’ wages so why the hell have they gone up from £7m to £15m?

“It doesn’t explain anywhere in the notes why the non-footballing costs have just about doubled.

“It is still the same stadium as it was before, still the same number of stadium staff so what is in there?

Mr Morgan added Premier League football and Sky television money worth £61m did mean income would likely be vastly more than what they were used to and probably above £80m.

In the report accompanying the accounts, chief executive Simon Lim said £12m spent on players two summers ago had been justified with promotion to the Premier League.

Mr Lim added they had trusted ex-manager Malky Mackay’s judgement in spending £35m again last summer.

He said: “Our aim has always been to see the football club playing in the Barclays Premier League and in winning promotion last year from the npower Championship as champions our plans and investments have been vindicated.

“For life in the Barclays Premier League we were aware that we needed to again invest in strengthening the playing squad but that we needed to spend wisely.

“Our aim was to bring in quality players who added to the strengths we already had in the team and we trusted our manager Malky Mackay fully to make the best judgement on how we achieved this goal.

“Indeed in signing an additional eight established professional players costing the football club in excess of £35m we now believe we have a squad of players and management team experienced enough to make Cardiff City a competitive and stable team in the Barclays Premier League.”

So it echoes what I said then?

Do you actually think before you post?

So it echoes what I said then?

Do you actually think before you post?

Yeah, it totally echoes what you said That one sentence sums you up, deluded

So it echoes what I said then?

Do you actually think before you post?

Yeah, it totally echoes what you said That one sentence sums you up, deluded

So which bit you think it contradicts then brains?

Tan could just pocket the money, drive the club into more debt, then sell up.

yes he can..............i wonder if chanting vincent tans a wanker might sway him to not do that

Which now stands at £130 million looking at figures on here.

Can anyone explain how this has come to be? I thought the Premiership and all its money was meant to eradicate our debt? If not how has it grown so much?

Granted there was the ridiculous over spend by us in the summer on mostly useless players but that doesn't account for the huge increase. Also work on stadium and training ground etc but taking away the money we get for being in the premiership surely it shouldn't have gone up so much.

I also read on here that we were getting a fair whack from Asia for a variety of reasons.

Can anyone please explain how the debt is so high?

how much do you think we get from being in the Prem?

we spend a good solid 35m just on transfer fees, not including agents and signing on bonuses and a massive increase in wages.

The next accounts will show our club is in debt for approx £130 mill.

Even after all the money we have won.

Our club is wasting money likes its water, read the next accounts

All depends what you include in the debt.

The total will include technicalities like accruals, provisions etc.. I can explain if you like, but reckon nobody is that interested.

The key thing is what actually has to be paid out - Tan says that he is owed £70-£80m - although most would 'estimate' it's more than that.

As said above -it will be revealed in the accounts, unfortunately, by the time these come out they are usually about a year out of date and even then there is confusion over which debt figure is used on them.

The debt figure then needs to be taken in relation to 'assets' -what the club owns ... stadium, players, training facilities.. etc.. if it's £100m and the club has £100m of assets then that is different from having £10m of assets against £90m of debt... and whether it has the income to service it (pay off interest, charges etc..) at the moment the 'servicing' isn't such an issue as Tan is the main creditor and isn't demanding interest PAYMENTS be made.

It's complicated

One thing is for sure, it's a lot of money - especially IF we go down, and bad news for all those that think relegation gets rid of Tan, it'll mean we are more reliant on him than ever.