' Vincent Tans Claims are wrong '

Paul Evans: Vincent Tan's claim of a 'few hundred' rebrand opponents at odds with Supporters Trust survey
Wednesday Mar 19th 2014.
BY PAUL EVANS.
Media Wales

Our columnist looks at the figures behind this week's poll in which 85% of fans said they wanted the Trust to continue to oppose red
Cardiff City fans protest against owner Vincent Tan
I won’t bore you by going into too much detail, but my research has shown the big polling companies regard 1,000 respondents as a perfectly adequate number to work with when it comes to them forecasting election results.

The polls have been wrong before and they’ll be wrong again in the future no doubt, but logic dictates that the bigger the sample of respondents, the less likely it is for the poll to be a “rogue” one.

In fact, the margin of error depending on poll size is a subject which has been looked into in great depth and it’s generally accepted that a poll with 1,000 respondents has a margin of error of plus or minus 3%. Therefore, if a poll of 1,000 people shows party A to have a lead of 7% over party B, then that lead is big enough to conclude that there is a 95% chance that Party A will win the election.

Right, having got all of that out of the way, I can now put it into some sort of Cardiff City context!

Back in June 2012, a Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust survey showed that 55% of those who voted were against the change to red shirts with 44% supporting it (there were a few blank voting forms as well).

At the time Cardiff City dismissed the findings despite the fact that the lead of 11% for the “nos” was outside the margin of error figures I mentioned earlier. However, with only around 270 people voting, the club’s contention that the low sample size could not produce reliable figures was accepted by many.

Two years on, the club are going to find it much harder to ignore the finding of the Trust’s latest survey (which was open for all City fans to vote in).

The results can be read on the Trust’s website at www.ccfctrust.org, but here are the findings with regard to Tan’s rebranding of the kit and badge.

The number who wanted the Trust to continue to oppose the rebrand stood at 85.21%, 12.37% disagreed with the rebrand, but would reluctantly accept it and just 2.41% said the Trust should accept the rebrand.

The truly significant thing about this latest vote is that 1,002 people responded to the Trust’s survey – that is a figure which falls well within the range of what polling companies class as an acceptable number of respondents to make an accurate judgement from.

Now, in his recent interview Tan stated that it was a vocal minority that opposed his decision to inflict the red shirt and dragon badge on us. Our owner started by saying that this minority was 10% of the people who attend games, before thinking about it a bit more and reducing the figure to 5% or “a few hundred”.

You need to bear that in mind when looking at those survey figures. If you accept that there are something like 25,000 City fans at home matches this season, multiplying the numbers who responded by 25 should give a rough idea of what the breakdown is among supporters when it comes to the rebrand every time we play at Cardiff City Stadium.

I make it that over 21,000 want the Trust to continue opposing the rebrand, just over 3,000 disagree with it, but reluctantly accept it and 600 feel the Trust should accept it.

The results completely contradict Tan’s contention about the numbers who are opposed to his rebrand, but, supporters can offer him more evidence that he is wrong by attending the peaceful pro-blue march to be held before Saturday’s match with Liverpool – details of which are also to be found on website.

as you know im totally against the red
but your assumptions are probably flawed
its not unusual that in polls like this those against something are the ones that come forward and vote
where as those not against something tend not to bother voting as they tend to feel no need to express there opinion on something their happy with
however it is obvious to all that the give us back our blue and tradition lobbyists is growing every day
I for one hope Saturdays protest has a huge peacefull turn out and gains even more support
I will be in Scotland with my wife on Saturday but at 3 19 and 27 seconds where ever I am I will lift my ccfc scarf above my head with pride

The survey was on a variety of things, not just the rebrand, so to say that people wouldn't bother voting if they were happy with the rebrand, is flawed, as it wasn't just covering the rebrand.

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

Tan said only 10% are against the rebrand & this proves him wrong.

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

Tan said only 10% are against the rebrand & this proves him wrong.

Or did he say 10% are against him?

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

spot on, this survey is seriously flawed

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

Tan said only 10% are against the rebrand & this proves him wrong.

this doesnt PROVE him wrong anymore than a totally blue away end at goodison, or just a look around the ccs on match day..........he didnt actually mention rebrand..he said supportive.......which can be taken as either, of his running of the club in general, or if you wish, the rebrand...........

the full interview is easy to find................its not crystal clear what he means......but you dont need a 3000 person protest to PROVE that the 15000 or so wearing blue in the ground prefer blue.......
the question is not what colour our fans prefer,its what they are prepared to give up in an attempt to regain it?

this doesnt PROVE him wrong anymore than a totally blue away end at goodison, or just a look around the ccs on match day..........he didnt actually mention rebrand..he said supportive.......which can be taken as either, of his running of the club in general, or if you wish, the rebrand...........

It definitely does.

this doesnt PROVE him wrong anymore than a totally blue away end at goodison, or just a look around the ccs on match day..........he didnt actually mention rebrand..he said supportive.......which can be taken as either, of his running of the club in general, or if you wish, the rebrand...........

It definitely does.

so thousands turning up deliberately wearing blue every week can be seen as happy with the rebrand?

so thousands turning up deliberately wearing blue every week can be seen as happy with the rebrand?

You're talking more nonsense than usual.

so thousands turning up deliberately wearing blue every week can be seen as happy with the rebrand?

You're talking more nonsense than usual.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

You seem to have the aims of the march all wrong.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

You seem to have the aims of the march all wrong.

No i have the aim the way it should be. Show support, an continue working on dialog. Thats how i belive the adult world work and why i have joined the trust. If anyone belive this is exactly what the march is about, they should read back if only on this forum a month back. But i hope its a good march and we reach our goals to win back our colour and badge

He's consistently showed that he won't participate in dialogue! How many times has he knocked the trusts offer of a meeting back?
Therefore, the only way to get "heard" is to march and protest. It's his own doing.

He's consistently showed that he won't participate in dialogue! How many times has he knocked the trusts offer of a meeting back?
Therefore, the only way to get "heard" is to march and protest. It's his own doing.

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

because he's the one who has forced through this farcical rebrand?

so thousands turning up deliberately wearing blue every week can be seen as happy with the rebrand?

You're talking more nonsense than usual.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

I think you meant "shooting himself in the foot" .Looks like you have shot yourself in the foot.

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

because he's the one who has forced through this farcical rebrand?

I would rather have him speaking to someone he would listen to. How politics works and allways was

That's just it, Tan won't speak to anyone at all. continually rejects the trusts calls for meetings or pulls out at the last minute.

Which is why protest is the only way of being heard... Which the trust agree on, evidently.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

You seem to have the aims of the march all wrong.

No i have the aim the way it should be. Show support, an continue working on dialog. Thats how i belive the adult world work and why i have joined the trust. If anyone belive this is exactly what the march is about, they should read back if only on this forum a month back. But i hope its a good march and we reach our goals to win back our colour and badge

Adult world my arse.There is no working dialogue with this dictator. At best he will allow us to talk with a representative of the club just to mildly appease the fans and throw us the crumbs off his red table.The march is primarily for the return to blue. A secondary result of this march is that its also aimed at Tan indirectly because he is the sole person responsible for the removal of the colours and the two issues are not easy to separate. Now that our splintered factions have united for the return to blue then we now have a real chance of getting somewhere.

so thousands turning up deliberately wearing blue every week can be seen as happy with the rebrand?

You're talking more nonsense than usual.

its only nonsense in the eyes of the nazis...........if your not anti tan the presumption is your a red. no one elses view matters other than yours

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

because he's the one who has forced through this farcical rebrand?

im pretty sure he offered to walk away and not invest huge sums of money?
at that point WE should have said no..........and didnt

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

spot on, this survey is seriously flawed

No surprise that someone with your username would question anything that threatens your beloved red. I think that the majority of fans attending the march realise that it may upset Tan and are fully prepared for the consequences. If our identity disappears altogether then we would have nothing left worth supporting anyway.

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

because he's the one who has forced through this farcical rebrand?

im pretty sure he offered to walk away and not invest huge sums of money?
at that point WE should have said no..........and didnt

Spot on

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

You seem to have the aims of the march all wrong.

No i have the aim the way it should be. Show support, an continue working on dialog. Thats how i belive the adult world work and why i have joined the trust. If anyone belive this is exactly what the march is about, they should read back if only on this forum a month back. But i hope its a good march and we reach our goals to win back our colour and badge

Adult world my arse.There is no working dialogue with this dictator. At best he will allow us to talk with a representative of the club just to mildly appease the fans and throw us the crumbs off his red table.The march is primarily for the return to blue. A secondary result of this march is that its also aimed at Tan indirectly because he is the sole person responsible for the removal of the colours and the two issues are not easy to separate. Now that our splintered factions have united for the return to blue then we now have a real chance of getting somewhere.

your spot on in saying he is the sole person responsible for us being red, ive never once heard a Cardiff fan wish us red when we were blue............he is also the only..ONLY person capable of returning us to blue,and no matter how unlikely that seems, calling a man you want something from a c**t and a wanker really is not how its done.......and the very 1st protest march was led by a tan go home banner..great stuff........TAF

the question deliberately did not define how far they would like to see the trust oppose the rebrand .
the question everyone is afraid of is would you be prepared for tan to walk away to get blue back.

Tan said only 10% are against the rebrand & this proves him wrong.

this doesnt PROVE him wrong anymore than a totally blue away end at goodison, or just a look around the ccs on match day..........he didnt actually mention rebrand..he said supportive.......which can be taken as either, of his running of the club in general, or if you wish, the rebrand...........

I would say that the stadium is far more blue these days and that this is a clear message from the fans against the rebrand and also in relation to the support for Tan himself, then there appears to be more than 10% of the crowd who indulge in anti Tan songs of some description.

No actually he is on to something. Twisted words have been turned into a march. Fair enough, march away.
We as members of the trust have given them the vote to get back to blue, not to vote tan out or anything else.
When a mad man is given a gun, just sit back and wait, he will soon enough shoot himself in the fot.

You seem to have the aims of the march all wrong.

No i have the aim the way it should be. Show support, an continue working on dialog. Thats how i belive the adult world work and why i have joined the trust. If anyone belive this is exactly what the march is about, they should read back if only on this forum a month back. But i hope its a good march and we reach our goals to win back our colour and badge

Adult world my arse.There is no working dialogue with this dictator. At best he will allow us to talk with a representative of the club just to mildly appease the fans and throw us the crumbs off his red table.The march is primarily for the return to blue. A secondary result of this march is that its also aimed at Tan indirectly because he is the sole person responsible for the removal of the colours and the two issues are not easy to separate. Now that our splintered factions have united for the return to blue then we now have a real chance of getting somewhere.

your spot on in saying he is the sole person responsible for us being red, ive never once heard a Cardiff fan wish us red when we were blue............he is also the only..ONLY person capable of returning us to blue,and no matter how unlikely that seems, calling a man you want something from a c**t and a wanker really is not how its done.......and the very 1st protest march was led by a tan go home banner..great stuff........TAF

Thats all I am saying is that you cannot separate the two issues as a march with a primary aim of wanting blue back is also an indirect vote against the man responsible. We all know that any action carries the risk of him leaving and we can dress it up as a blue march as much as we like but its really a vote of no confidence in what our owner has done and ultimately a vote against Tan himself. I do think however that fans have now reached the point where they are now prepared to risk the owner leaving rather than lose what we have left of our identity.

What makes you think you have to speak to tan?

because he's the one who has forced through this farcical rebrand?

im pretty sure he offered to walk away and not invest huge sums of money?
at that point WE should have said no..........and didnt

Spot on

WE DID f**k ALL ABOUT IT THEN.. and now people want to turn it on him.......we are the cunts and wankers { myself included }.