Target man

I read a lot of discussion on Jones being lazy and so on. In my opinion he is doing ok for a target man, but what are you expecting from a target man? Obviously we want him to score, but other than that. Last game i saw him line up for several runners, but Noone wouldn't release it. For me a target man wins duels and tie up the ball, but what do you think?

Just because hes a target man doesnt me hes exempt from chasing down balls and closing down defenders. He should try harder like campbell does.

Just because hes a target man doesnt me hes exempt from chasing down balls and closing down defenders. He should try harder like campbell does.

I agree but I think we would have to pay a lot of money for a target man who moves like Campbell.

To hold the ball up sufficiently until support runners arrive. to win flick ons when coming short for advanced runners. To grab a few goals along the way. To be on the near post when defending corners. Finally when not having possession making yourself a nuisance to the defenders. So far Kenwyne has done most of these to varying degrees but can do more I hope.

I agree that Kenwynne jones has been a good enough target man so far. Unfortunately, he had not been playing regular football before we signed him half way through the season, so we should expect him to be off the pace in games. To miss the target from 3 feet on Saturday was unforgivable but let's hope his embarrassment motivates him to prove the doubters wrong in the forthcoming matches. I think he will be on the bench against Everton.

Just because hes a target man doesnt me hes exempt from chasing down balls and closing down defenders. He should try harder like campbell does.

Off course, but he is a big man. I think he can fit cambell in his pocket So the general ide off him being lazy is because he dosent run defenders. I remember Blakey said conrnelius didn't know how to close down and that was embarrassing,
but to be fair Jones does that on centerbacks. I dont se anyone with his size running arround like cambell (cant think of anyone), and i dont think i have seen cambell win many duels with a man behind him. Lazy or not, im glad we have him up there and to be honest i think cambell`s header on wigan was worse, but glad we have him to

It's a huge ask to expect Jones to do the running up front that Campbell and Bellamy does, or would do, as he'd be burnt out in half an hour!

He can't be expected to chase shadows up front as a lone striker, as he's not built the same as the others I've mentioned!

It's like asking Usain Bolt to run a marathon!

Just because hes a target man doesnt me hes exempt from chasing down balls and closing down defenders. He should try harder like campbell does.

Have you not seen the defensive work he puts in on nearly every corner and free kick???

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Ibrahimovich is a target man. Just because he has the ability to do more than just your average target man doesnt mean he isnt one. He is just a very good one.

You will see all of the best teams at closing down Barca, Byern, Borussia Dortmund etc. have 11 men closing the ball down, from front to back and back to front. The centre forward isnt exempt. He should be helping the wide players close down to double up and force the opponents into a mistake and winning the ball back.

Obviously he wont be able to chase every single ball all game long but he certainly should do SOME at least. He plays as if his boots are full of cement.

Last edited by A block on Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Ibrahimovich is a target man. Just because he has the ability to do more than just your average target man doesnt mean he isnt one. He is just a very good one.

You will see all of the best teams in the world at closing down Barca, Byern etc. have 11 men closing the ball down, from front to back and back to front. The centre forward isnt exempt. He should be helping the wide players close down to force the opponents into a mistake and winning the ball back.

Ibra doesnt play as a target man though. Just because he is big doesnt mean he's a target man.

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Ibrahimovich is a target man. Just because he has the ability to do more than just your average target man doesnt mean he isnt one. He is just a very good one.

You will see all of the best teams in the world at closing down Barca, Byern etc. have 11 men closing the ball down, from front to back and back to front. The centre forward isnt exempt. He should be helping the wide players close down to force the opponents into a mistake and winning the ball back.

Ibra doesnt play as a target man though. Just because he is big doesnt mean he's a target man.

Absolute garbage.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/tech ... -targetman

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Ibrahimovich is a target man. Just because he has the ability to do more than just your average target man doesnt mean he isnt one. He is just a very good one.

You will see all of the best teams in the world at closing down Barca, Byern etc. have 11 men closing the ball down, from front to back and back to front. The centre forward isnt exempt. He should be helping the wide players close down to force the opponents into a mistake and winning the ball back.

Ibra doesnt play as a target man though. Just because he is big doesnt mean he's a target man.

Absolute garbage.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/tech ... -targetman

So, try watching PSG play. Instead of 442 mag. Ibra does what he wants, he is not solely a target man

Think back and our fans have always had it in for target men as they dont understand the role.

Jones
Rudy
Bothroyd
even Peter Thorne!

So are you implying target men are entitled to be lazy?

Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around.

Kenwyn Jones is terrible in my opinion. He barely moves, when he does win a header it rarely goes to one of our players, he is unable to hold the ball up and bring people into play and he is terrible with the ball at his feet. He is a nuisance I do agree but he lacks the basic abilities a footballer needs.

Even when he scored on his debut he was lucky, he should have buried it first time and he was fortunate it dropped back down in front of him for an open goal. He has also missed many half chances.

Peter Thorne was a quality target man. His link up play with Earnshaw was brilliant, he made many assists and chipped in with a few as well.

Bothroyd was another good target man and was good with the ball at his feet, had the ability to make something from nothing and was good at holding the ball up and linking up with the midfield.

Rudy, well he was just dire...

Target men have to be in the centre of the field incase the ball gets to them so they can hold it up. Whats the point in having a target man if he isnt a target?
As for doesnt win headers, he won 5 out of 9 on the weekend

How many of those 5 headers resulted in the ball going to a Cardiff player?

I remember Jay Bothroyd on countless occasions picking up the ball from the byline, cutting inside and having a strike at goal and often scoring goals. A target man doesnt have to occupy the centre of the field, he just has to be a target. If you limit yourself to the centre of the pitch your quite easy to defend againt.

Ibrahimovich is one of the best target men in the world and he doesnt only occupy the centre of the field...

Ibra is not a target man, he does everything so no point in even bringing him into it. Jones played in the centre of a 3 so he shouldnt need to go closing down the wings, otherwise there is no-one in the centre. Problem is we dont close down as a unit, its all individuals

Ibrahimovich is a target man. Just because he has the ability to do more than just your average target man doesnt mean he isnt one. He is just a very good one.

You will see all of the best teams in the world at closing down Barca, Byern etc. have 11 men closing the ball down, from front to back and back to front. The centre forward isnt exempt. He should be helping the wide players close down to force the opponents into a mistake and winning the ball back.

Ibra doesnt play as a target man though. Just because he is big doesnt mean he's a target man.

Absolute garbage.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/tech ... -targetman

I dont just 'read 4-4-2' as you suggest, I am currently doing my UEFA B badge and have had to do copious amounts of player analysis and performance analysis as a part of it.

Ibrahimovich doesnt just 'do what he wants'. He moves around the field searching for space and a position where his team mates can find him. When they get the ball to him he wins headers, holds the ball up, brings team-mates into the game and is also capable of running at the opposition.

It is unfair to compare Jones to Ibrahimovich of course. As Ibra is one of the greatest target men out there. However, to suggest a target man shouldn't do any closing down and should only occupy the centre of the field is nonsense. The target man should move around to a position where his team mates are able to get the ball to him. Another example of a target man who closes down is Lewandowski - or is he not a target man either?

Kenwyn Jones is just lazy and doesn't want to close down or do any of the dirtier work, its as simple as that.

**edit** Sorry C badge not B.

Im watching the fulham game again now and i do not agree he is lazy. Sure we could wish for him to run more, but he closes down from the side as a striker should do. He is not hitting all head flicks, neither his flicks on foot but he i certainly doing his job tie up the ball. He also puts himself in good position for attack. I dont think PSG will sign him anytime soon, but he is doing ok for Cardiff! When he doesn't t get the ball 26 minutes in to the game he is pretty upset, and this is not the only time! Take a look at his movement sheet, i think he is right where he suppose to be most of the time.

Jones.jpg

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At last some serious informed discussion about Jones' qualities rather than just jumping on the 'lazy' bandwagon, as so many do. Its exactly the same with Whitts, and with Turner for hoofing it. Well we did really well when Turner was dropped didn't we. The lazy ones are those who jump on the bandwagon without ever really analysing the players' contributions.

Jones is just what we have needed all season, yes he is not the best but he has done the target man job 10 times better than odemwingie and that donkey cornelius. For the people who think KJ should be doing the same amount of running as Campbell, are you on drugs?

FFS if people are using Zlatan as their basis for a target man no wonder everyone thinks he's shit

Delusional to call him lazy and expect him to do what the likes of Campbell does, I would really question your knowledge on Football altogether.

Jones is just what we have needed all season, yes he is not the best but he has done the target man job 10 times better than odemwingie and that donkey cornelius. For the people who think KJ should be doing the same amount of running as Campbell, are you on drugs?

Agree with you on he is just what we need and better than odemwingie who was a waste of time playing up top on his own but is he just the best of a bad bunch? I don't expect him to run like campbell but he could run a bit more. Said earlier he had a good battle with hangerland and he will come up against easier centre half's than him in the coming weeks. I can't fault his work when defending corners where he has been outstanding. Just want to see a little bit more from him in the area where we need him to be playing his best.

I don't mind Jones being lazy, he is paid to do a job which is to be a focal point.

My issue is he doesn't do it well enough. Needs to be more aggressive and hold the ball up better for his size.

FFS if people are using Zlatan as their basis for a target man no wonder everyone thinks he's shit

If you actually read what I was saying I wasnt comparing them in terms of ability or skill. I was using him as an example to show that a target man doesn't only have to occupy the centre of the park. I used Bothroyd as a similar example. If you continue to read I say that it isnt really fair to compare him Jones to Ibrahimovich.

Im watching the fulham game again now and i do not agree he is lazy. Sure we could wish for him to run more, but he closes down from the side as a striker should do. He is not hitting all head flicks, neither his flicks on foot but he i certainly doing his job tie up the ball. He also puts himself in good position for attack. I dont think PSG will sign him anytime soon, but he is doing ok for Cardiff! When he doesn't t get the ball 26 minutes in to the game he is pretty upset, and this is not the only time! Take a look at his movement sheet, i think he is right where he suppose to be most of the time.

Jones.jpg

These sort of maps are good to a certain extent. One weakness of them is that it doesnt show where the ball is when Jones is in certain positions. It also shows that he isnt in the opponents area enough. Although some of that blame can also be put on the players around him for not creating enough chances

Delusional to call him lazy and expect him to do what the likes of Campbell does, I would really question your knowledge on Football altogether.

Im not sure if this is aimed at me but if it is then you should read what I actually said again:

"Kenwyn Jones will never run around like Campbell, thats because they are different types of players. Campbell is the type of striker who will run the wings and get in behind defenders while target man isnt expected to do this, it doesnt mean they shouldnt close defenders down and just stand around."

He's been great when we have possession but I would like to see him close down the 2 centre backs more

Jay Bothroyd was ten times better than Jones who is the laziest c**t ive ever seen in a City shirt.

He wont move 5 yards to close a player down, and when youve got your own centre halfs busting a gut to get past him when we are on the break it says it all really.

The only area he has excelled is defending our own corners but thats only because he doesnt have to move.