Listen to good old Roathie and you wont go far wrong...

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

The two are separate aren't they?.

Couldn't he own 100% of the club but still be owed money by it?. He is just loaning the club money.

Either way I get the feeling we are going to be shafted by him for decades.

The two are separate aren't they?.

Couldn't he own 100% of the club but still be owed money by it?. He is just loaning the club money.

Yes of course. But debt to equity means he will write off the debt in order to own 100% of the club.

If we both owned 50% of a £5000 car but I lent you £2500 to go on holiday... I could then acquire 100% of the car and write off your debt. That is debt to equity.

He has been spending money while everybody was assuming he will "convert it to equity". I said it didn't make sense at the time and now the fact he owns 90% proves that categorically.

To convert that to my car example. It would be like you owing me £20,000 and me taking your £2500 share of the car to settle the whole debt.... When I can take your share of the car and still claim £17,500 off you.

f**k me, fair play for a supporter of a rival team your on here a lot more than half the Cardiff fans.
Haven't you got anything else better to do???

f**k me, fair play for a supporter of a rival team your on here a lot more than half the Cardiff fans.
Haven't you got anything else better to do???

Im a supporter of welsh football in general young man. Our forum is crap, this is my choice of football discussion forum - luckily for you.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Actually Phillip I asked this question from the off. How is he going to convert the debt to equity when the asset value of the club is no where near what he has loaned. I've never had a realistic answer.

Once it becomes very clear that it is not going ot happen then I will sit back and see what the Tan apologists do about it.

So when the dust settles and he's gone, all that will be left is the same amount of debt but owed to Tan?.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Actually Phillip I asked this question from the off. How is he going to convert the debt to equity when the asset value of the club is no where near what he has loaned. I've never had a realistic answer.

Once it becomes very clear that it is not going ot happen then I will sit back and see what the Tan apologists do about it.

I used to get banned for saying stuff like that Ian.

This was my point from the second he came in. People were rejoicing that he was a billionaire completely unaware that the richer he is, the more of YOUR money he can spend.

People on here are always talking about "we need another billionaire".

Seems lessons under Sam were not learned. And to think people were calling for greater spending in January ON TOP of the £50m in summer

So when the dust settles and he's gone, all that will be left is the same amount of debt but owed to Tan?.

Not quite.

You will in all likelyhood be debt free. But you will have nothing.

Youth players and thats it.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then

You have clearly not read what I posted.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

Rap this is correct wez what tan is saying is he already owns 90% pf Cardiff city excluding any loans owed to him

So theoretically as he's owed £80m if he were to write that off for 10% more of the business then effectively he would have paid £80m for just 10% of the club!!

However you could flip it and argue for the original £6m after playoff final he got 40% of club he's then bought everyone else shares to take him to 90% with Isaacs 10% appearing the stumbling block at moment
Not sure what he spent on everyone else's but I'm told isaacs is valued at around £3m for 10% but he wants £10m so 50% at £4m takin him to 90% would mean he's spent a further £15m to own 90% of club taking total to around £21m to buy us out so far
We then owe him £80m so either way I can't see him converting unless he issues a massive amount of shares at low value once h fully owns club in order to make the club worth £110m which would effectively be what he is owed
I believe when he buys isaacs shares he will issue a large amount of shares to himself to convert the debt, this will devalue the share price but will make up for his conversion overall against his investment although like I day he will have to issue a silly amount of shares

However as the club is worth an est £100m now then he could do this but it's defo isaacs whose stopping this happen

The two are separate aren't they?.

Couldn't he own 100% of the club but still be owed money by it?. He is just loaning the club money.

Yes of course. But debt to equity means he will write off the debt in order to own 100% of the club.

If we both owned 50% of a £5000 car but I lent you £2500 to go on holiday... I could then acquire 100% of the car and write off your debt. That is debt to equity.

He has been spending money while everybody was assuming he will "convert it to equity". I said it didn't make sense at the time and now the fact he owns 90% proves that categorically.

To convert that to my car example. It would be like you owing me £20,000 and me taking your £2500 share of the car to settle the whole debt.... When I can take your share of the car and still claim £17,500 off you.

I understadn your points completely but it has been and can be done. Man city being a prime example.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

once again your post is full of contradictions but if its only say 11 million to buy the other shares the club is worth to tan 90 million the money hes put in and is owed every penny after that amount would be pure profit people say he wont get his money back but the club is worth alot more with the parachute payments coming over the next 4 years ,i will agree with annis and co that the club now is more attractive to a buyer than before maybe if people want tan out they should conentrate on finding a new investor they could get a club with its own 33000 seater stadium and garenteed 60+ million income over the next 4 years and they could get it for a bargain

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

once again your post is full of contradictions

what? I can only assume you still dont understanding what im telling you? Where is the contradiction?

but if its only say 11 million to buy the other shares the club is worth to tan 90 million the money hes put in and is owed every penny after that amount would be pure profit

what do you mean every penny after that? After what? The club loses money yearly.

people say he wont get his money back but the club is worth alot more with the parachute payments coming over the next 4 years ,i will agree with annis and co that the club now is more attractive to a buyer than before maybe if people want tan out they should conentrate on finding a new investor they could get a club with its own 33000 seater stadium and garenteed 60+ million income over the next 4 years and they could get it for a bargain

the income is £60m because of the increased outgoings of a relegated club. It isnt £60m profit. You can have a £100m of income guaranteed and the company be worthless.

I understadn your points completely but it has been and can be done. Man city being a prime example.

Man city is completely different. They aren't in it for profit.

To think Tan isn't in it for money is lunacy.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

once again your post is full of contradictions

what? I can only assume you still dont understanding what im telling you? Where is the contradiction?

but if its only say 11 million to buy the other shares the club is worth to tan 90 million the money hes put in and is owed every penny after that amount would be pure profit

what do you mean every penny after that? After what? The club loses money yearly.

people say he wont get his money back but the club is worth alot more with the parachute payments coming over the next 4 years ,i will agree with annis and co that the club now is more attractive to a buyer than before maybe if people want tan out they should conentrate on finding a new investor they could get a club with its own 33000 seater stadium and garenteed 60+ million income over the next 4 years and they could get it for a bargain

the income is £60m because of the increased outgoings of a relegated club. It isnt £60m profit. You can have a £100m of income guaranteed and the company be worthless.

if tan was to buy the rest of the shares for 11 million as you stated then his out lay would be 90-91 million if he sold the club for the 120 million you say its worth, he would of made a profit of 30-31 million

any investor would look at the income of 60 million over 4 years in a good way effectively a good businessman would cut cost and it would become profit

I understadn your points completely but it has been and can be done. Man city being a prime example.

Man city is completely different. They aren't in it for profit.

To think Tan isn't in it for money is lunacy.

Tan's in it because he loves the club

He dreams about those Ninian park nights in the third and fourth division and he's determined to bring them back for the true fans at the club!

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

once again your post is full of contradictions

what? I can only assume you still dont understanding what im telling you? Where is the contradiction?

but if its only say 11 million to buy the other shares the club is worth to tan 90 million the money hes put in and is owed every penny after that amount would be pure profit

what do you mean every penny after that? After what? The club loses money yearly.

people say he wont get his money back but the club is worth alot more with the parachute payments coming over the next 4 years ,i will agree with annis and co that the club now is more attractive to a buyer than before maybe if people want tan out they should conentrate on finding a new investor they could get a club with its own 33000 seater stadium and garenteed 60+ million income over the next 4 years and they could get it for a bargain

the income is £60m because of the increased outgoings of a relegated club. It isnt £60m profit. You can have a £100m of income guaranteed and the company be worthless.

if tan was to buy the rest of the shares for 11 million as you stated then his out lay would be 90-91 million if he sold the club for the 120 million you say its worth, he would of made a profit of 30-31 million

it wont be worth £120m because it is in debt to Tan to the tune of £70m. Debt free it would be worth about £100m-£120m

any investor would look at the income of 60 million over 4 years in a good way effectively a good businessman would cut cost and it would become profit

but thats not a good thing for you guys, thats worse than tans tennure. If you get 4 years of someone creaming the parachute payments and cutting expenditure then you could quite conceivably find yourself in League 2.

From the interview summary.....

"According to Tan, the club's only outstanding debt is about £70m-£80m owed to him, and he will decide in due course whether or not to convert that into equity."

He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m

Barmy.

Once again your understanding of business is way off the mark you are forgetting that he owns 90% of the club already which is worth 80 or so million already ,at a sale of the club it's worth well over 100 million ,the income of just the parachute payments is worth 60 million over 4 years so how is 10% worth 80 million

You think? Must remember to sell my two highly successful businesses then
He now owns 90% of the club.

So why on earth would he buy the remaining 10% for £80m, valuing the club at £800m


please explain how 10 % is 800 milion ??????????

Im amazed you are confused by that.

If you buy 10% of something for £1 then how much is that commodity worth? (£10 is the answer by the way).

If you buy 10% of something for £80m then how much is that commodity worth? (£800m is the answer by the way).

Id say the club is currently worth £110m maybe. Meaning to acquire the last 10% should only cost him £11m.

once again your post is full of contradictions

what? I can only assume you still dont understanding what im telling you? Where is the contradiction?

but if its only say 11 million to buy the other shares the club is worth to tan 90 million the money hes put in and is owed every penny after that amount would be pure profit

what do you mean every penny after that? After what? The club loses money yearly.

people say he wont get his money back but the club is worth alot more with the parachute payments coming over the next 4 years ,i will agree with annis and co that the club now is more attractive to a buyer than before maybe if people want tan out they should conentrate on finding a new investor they could get a club with its own 33000 seater stadium and garenteed 60+ million income over the next 4 years and they could get it for a bargain

the income is £60m because of the increased outgoings of a relegated club. It isnt £60m profit. You can have a £100m of income guaranteed and the company be worthless.

if tan was to buy the rest of the shares for 11 million as you stated then his out lay would be 90-91 million if he sold the club for the 120 million you say its worth, he would of made a profit of 30-31 million

it wont be worth £120m because it is in debt to Tan to the tune of £70m. Debt free it would be worth about £100m-£120m

any investor would look at the income of 60 million over 4 years in a good way effectively a good businessman would cut cost and it would become profit

but thats not a good thing for you guys, thats worse than tans tennure. If you get 4 years of someone creaming the parachute payments and cutting expenditure then you could quite conceivably find yourself in League 2.

roathy if someone comes in and pays tan 100-120 million for the club the club would be debt free or will owe the new owner the 80 million so tan would make a profit ,its not rocket science

Thats not how it works wes

As a club you owe Tan (or his holding business) £80m (at the moment, probably more at the time of sale).

He will own 100% of the club. If someone buys him out then they buy his shares - his loan notes remain, they have nothing to do with his shares.

Hammam sold the club - yet he was still owed what his company loaned the club.

Thats not how it works wes

As a club you owe Tan (or his holding business) £80m (at the moment, probably more at the time of sale).

He will own 100% of the club. If someone buys him out then they buy his shares - his loan notes remain, they have nothing to do with his shares.

Hammam sold the club - yet he was still owed what his company loaned the club.

but you are saying that the club is worth 100-120 m someone is not going to buy the club for that and still have the loan notes to tan remaining are they ? that would value the club at 200 million cause the debt would still be remaining that isnt going to happen roathy you are spliting hairs now

but you are saying that the club is worth 100-120 m someone is not going to buy the club for that and still have the loan notes to tan remaining are they ? that would value the club at 200 million cause the debt would still be remaining that isnt going to happen roathy you are spliting hairs now

What?!

Of course nobody is going to buy it for £120m, thats entirely my point. Wes keep up son.

Debt doesn't add value to a club it takes it away.

12 years ago Swansea was sold for £1. It had an income of £2 million per annum.

Roathie give up because he obviously doesn't want to hear it. He hasn't grasped many key differences.

All he sees is tan has invested 90 million so if someone (whoever this fictional billionaire is) buys us for 120 million we are debt free, tan makes 30 mill and then the new guy has a nice investment of 60 mill in parachute payments.

The problem with that is if someone buys the club for 120 mill, tan is still owed what he's owed as that doesn't just disappear, and a new investor taking all the parachute payments destroyed on the field matters because those payments are there to ease the financial burden of relegation. Take those away and you have a Portsmouth situation.

Roathie give up because he obviously doesn't want to hear it. He hasn't grasped many key differences.

All he sees is tan has invested 90 million so if someone (whoever this fictional billionaire is) buys us for 120 million we are debt free, tan makes 30 mill and then the new guy has a nice investment of 60 mill in parachute payments.

The problem with that is if someone buys the club for 120 mill, tan is still owed what he's owed as that doesn't just disappear, and a new investor taking all the parachute payments destroyed on the field matters because those payments are there to ease the financial burden of relegation. Take those away and you have a Portsmouth situation.

Spot on.

Wow Wez.

Roathie give up because he obviously doesn't want to hear it. He hasn't grasped many key differences.

All he sees is tan has invested 90 million so if someone (whoever this fictional billionaire is) buys us for 120 million we are debt free, tan makes 30 mill and then the new guy has a nice investment of 60 mill in parachute payments.

The problem with that is if someone buys the club for 120 mill, tan is still owed what he's owed as that doesn't just disappear, and a new investor taking all the parachute payments destroyed on the field matters because those payments are there to ease the financial burden of relegation. Take those away and you have a Portsmouth situation.

another jack accountant

Roathie give up because he obviously doesn't want to hear it. He hasn't grasped many key differences.

All he sees is tan has invested 90 million so if someone (whoever this fictional billionaire is) buys us for 120 million we are debt free, tan makes 30 mill and then the new guy has a nice investment of 60 mill in parachute payments.

The problem with that is if someone buys the club for 120 mill, tan is still owed what he's owed as that doesn't just disappear, and a new investor taking all the parachute payments destroyed on the field matters because those payments are there to ease the financial burden of relegation. Take those away and you have a Portsmouth situation.

another jack accountant