Annis/Carl - a question for you

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

im not Carl or Annis, .. but my inderstanding of it is that the point in him converting debt to equity is that he can then float the club on a stock exchange..........pretty sure this will not be happening some time soon

here'sanother question for you!!! Has Gwyn got over the fence yet..?

what has to be sorted now under new prem rules?

here'sanother question for you!!! Has Gwyn got over the fence yet..?

what has to be sorted now under new prem rules?

Financial fair play rules

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.I

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

Had this debate already with Roath Magic who reckons by asset stripping Tan has got about £100 million covered. However none of that is a guarantee and if Tan was to leave I can see him selling on the cheap for a quick sale. I was told a round figure of £50 million would buy us although if it looks like we could remain in the premier then that could be far higher.

The question is who would want us?

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

How has Tan created £150million of debt?

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

Players, stadium, sponsorship, training ground and parachute payments.

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

how much are our players worth..?.whatever money comes in from TV, and i suppose he could sell the stadium { no doubt the council would block moves to knock it down and redevelop..might have to buy it themselves...who knows..

could be a disaster......unless your of the mind blue in league two..i hope but doubt the majority saying that ,really mean it.

There is a covenant on the stadium by the council. It cannot be sold. So where is this 100m from???

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

Peters Pies Mun....


f*cking Golmine that is butt

A lot of people are saying "its not guaranteed" but it is in reality.

Football is a business, there will always be a buyer at the right price. If I had a 150k house and put it on the market for 90k it would probably sell that same week. So, with that in mind the any "non guaranteed" monies are bare minimum estimates.

- £20m parachute money (guaranteed)

- £10m worth of sponsorship deals set up. Shirt, stadium etc (guaranteed)

- £8m season ticket money (guaranteed)

- £12m for sale of club..... This club will essentially be debt free after the stripping with a guaranteed £30m parachute income over 2 years, plus its annual £15m income. That values the business at around £20m according to my calculations. A sale price of £12m would guarantee a sale. Especially being one league below the Premiership.

- £40m player sales..... Medel, Caulker and Mutch would fetch £20m minimum at an average of £6.6m each. You then have Marshall, Cala, John, Whittingham, Kim, Daeli, Gunnarsson, Noone, Turner, Campbell who if even sold at £2m each would hit the £40m target. Clearly it would be far more with the likes of Kim, Marshall and Noone probably attracting much higher bids.

- Training ground and real estate. I havent put a figure in this as he could do several things to it. He could sell it to a developer or indeed lease it back to you. Which of course will bring longer term financial reward.

Total = £90 million + the training ground real estate. That is MINIMUM. Im positive that in fact that figure would be closer to £105m. But for arguments sake have taken the lower estimates of everything.

he is no idiot and there is a reason his investments can always be covered. As a businessman myself, it is all about the risk to reward ratio. Loaning a company money that you own is risky, loaning a company you own that has that exact same value in assets is no risk what so ever.

This is why I dont think he will stay on if relegated. It would cost him another £20m probably just to keep your head above water. That £20m is unsecured and a total risk, something that I don't think he will take.

He took a gamble thinking that the rebrand and some on field investment would catch the imagination of Asia and thus tap into the market. He severely underestimated the task, which is compounded by his complete lack of understanding of football which is a completely different business to normal.

He has now clearly seen it isnt financially viable so will have to cut and run. This is what I said under Canton Magic 3 years ago and it still rings true, every single word.

40m on players?? Not a chance! We still have to field a viable playing squad. If we went down the vultures would circle.....we would get no where near that.

shirt sponsor was 3m over 3 years started this season (around that figure)

Stadium naming??? Not guaranteed

8m on season tickets???????

40m on players?? Not a chance! We still have to field a viable playing squad. If we went down the vultures would circle.....we would get no where near that.

eh? You think Tan wont do it because you need players? Think you are missing the point here. The point isnt leaving you in a good position on the field, the point is him leaving you bare and getting his money back.

£40 million is minimum. It would be an open market.

shirt sponsor was 3m over 3 years started this season (around that figure)

again missing the point. He could sponsor the short himself for as long as he wants for free essentially.

Stadium naming??? Not guaranteed

again missed the point. He can name it the Bereja stadium or whatever his company is, forever if he pleases. That is worth millions.

8m on season tickets???????

£400 x 20,000 = £8 million

If he wanted to recoup his money why would he sponsor stuff himself?

No where near 100m.

When a team is relegated and shipping its best players out because the owner is doing one you would get nowhere near a good value for them. Agents make sure of that!

If we go down we will not get 20k season tickets sold.

I think you have over estimated quite considerably how much ccfc and its assets are worth. We dont have a nee training ground yet and the land we purchased for that is the only land we own. PMG saw to that.

If he wanted to recoup his money why would he sponsor stuff himself?

do i really have to answer that? because he gets free sponsorship worth millions.

No where near 100m.

what do you mean nowhere near £100m?

£20m parachute payments, £8m season tickets, £40m MINIMUM players, £12m MINIMUM shares is £80 million alone. He then has a £10m training ground and can set up ling terms sponsorships worth millions. Im not sure how you dont think that adds up to the £100m region.

When a team is relegated and shipping its best players out because the owner is doing one you would get nowhere near a good value for them. Agents make sure of that!

did you read my post?

Medel was bought for £11m - i have his sale price at £6.8m. Caulker was bought for £8m - I have his sale price at £6.8m. Most of the others ive priced up at £2m a piece which is all minimum prices on an open market.

Yu think people are going to be buying the likes of Kim for 500k

Come on now.

If we go down we will not get 20k season tickets sold.

season tickets are sold prior to the season ending

I think you have over estimated quite considerably how much ccfc and its assets are worth. We dont have a nee training ground yet and the land we purchased for that is the only land we own. PMG saw to that.

i havent, that much is clear.

Tell me which figure is over exaggerated, every single figure is vastly underestimated - purposely. IT is far more likely what ive stated would be £100 million upwards.

No point in debating figures we have both guessed, especially with yourself as you cant grasp anything anyone ever says to you. We will just agree to disagree

No point in debating figures we have both guessed, especially with yourself as you cant grasp anything anyone ever says to you. We will just agree to disagree

Ive not guessed. Ive given you less than market value.

There is nothing to grasp at the moment as your counter argument seems to consist of "nah".

It will be a company trading in the championship with no debt after the stripping. Debt riddled, it was worth £15m according to tans share price. Debt free it would be worth £20m easily. Ive said £12m so Ive under valued it by £8 million

As for players I have slashed market value by half in most cases.

Season ticket sales are based on 20,000 sales. Even if it is 16,000 then the figure drops from £8m to £6.5m - it hardly makes a difference.

The land for the training ground is Tans which can be sold or leased back to you and hasnt even been counted into the monitary aspect

Parachute payments are guaranteed.

He CAN set up multi million pound contracts with his own companies and ensure sponsorship for the next decade if he so wishes.

Not really sure what your case for your "nah" is.

Parachute payments are guaranteed.

Parachute payments are the major source of income and guaranteed providing we don't go into admin.

If we went into admin its none hence why we wont go down that track.

Parachute payments are guaranteed.

Parachute payments are the major source of income and guaranteed providing we don't go into admin.

If we went into admin its none hence why we wont go down that track.

Not sure what you mean. I haven't mentioned admin.

If Tan asset strips you, that includes the first £20m payment he can take in payment of a the same amount in loan notes. There will be no admin as he will be paid.

No point in debating figures we have both guessed, especially with yourself as you cant grasp anything anyone ever says to you. We will just agree to disagree

agree..pure fiction.. i hate the i am a successful business man myself billy bollox stuff...to try to add weight to his posts..

agree..pure fiction.. i hate the i am a successful business man myself billy bollox stuff...to try to add weight to his posts..

Which part do you disagree with then?

I dont need anything to add weight to my posts, they are pretty self explanatory, pretty common sense and pretty straight forward.

... The sound of confused silence

Always happy to have people disagree with my posts, it makes for good debate.... However my posts are backed up by a vast amount of logic, surely if you are going to counter the argument then at least bring something to the table other than "nah" which is tantamount to what yourself and Craig have brought here.

I await further in hope

Parachute payments are guaranteed.

Parachute payments are the major source of income and guaranteed providing we don't go into admin.

If we went into admin its none hence why we wont go down that track.

Not sure what you mean. I haven't mentioned admin.

If Tan asset strips you, that includes the first £20m payment he can take in payment of a the same amount in loan notes. There will be no admin as he will be paid.

Yes well if he goes down that route I can imagine the FA stepping in.

Nothing the FA can do. If he owns the club then he has a duty to pay off the clubs debts, they just happen to be to himself. He is free to use any income streams the club has in order to do that.

That is the issue I was saying in another thread. The minute a chairman writes a cheque the club cant afford to pay then worry, regardless of how rich he is, as it is the club that will have to foot the bill - and usually it is down to much needed revenue streams like parachute payments and season ticket money which are sacrificed to keep afloat.

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

Perhaps this is why people want us to stay up and not look back with rose tinted glasses and say "how wonderful Div 4 was."
Presuming we have a club at all of course.

Personally I won't take any fans word on it that we will.

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

Players, stadium, sponsorship, training ground and parachute payments.

Correct, Tan would take it all because he has only lent us the money so far, so we would have to allow him too.