' Football Banning orders section 14a and section 14b '

If you are currently being charged with a Section 14b civil banning order please contact me or Vince ASAP

Section 14 b article by Garreth Cummins

The following article is from the December issue of the FSF magazine called “The football supporter” an excellent publication that al Football supporters Federation members can subscribe to monthly ( http://www.fsf.org.uk/shop/)

It is similar to the other post I put up recently just another slant on it, I still think its worth letting our fans know the full facts about the laws that could hit them...please don’t bother reading any further if this has no interest to you.

Garreth Cummins is a friend of both mine and Vince Alm and he works for the FSF...in this piece he explores a worrying piece of legislation that allows the police to ban fans without any proof of wrong-doing.

Here is his article.

I’m on the list, I can’t possibly know it for certain, but the fact remains that I’m on that list.
The authorities are monitoring me without my knowledge, watching my movements, noting my habits; they think I am a risk to society. There’s covert surveillance of me at weekends. The government spies are everywhere, sometimes they don’t even try to hide it. CCTV cameras are tracking my every move, they’re on to me. It’ll not be long ‘til they stop me going where I want and when I want, call me in for regular checks; they will take my passport off me, just because I ‘m on the list...

Far from being some Orwellian nightmare, the above is true of thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people in this country. And before you start to worry about my sanity and suggest I stop watch the “X files” re runs late into the night, I’m not talking about some great government conspiracy, there’s no need for me to reach for the tin foil hat or shove pencils up my nostrils( well not yet anyway).

You see. The police are tracking football supporters in ever increasing numbers. Countless numbers of fans are assessed by police forces as “risk” supporters, but what does that mean? It might sound ludicrous, but if the police assess you as a risk supporter, that very assessment can be used against you in a court as “evidence” towards a football banning order (FBO)

I say “evidence” in inverted commas, because, like the rest of us , you probably thought that FBO’s were reserved only for the hardcore hooligan element following football; those who commit serious acts of violence in and around stadia and are tried and convicted in front of a jury, the problem for fans now, however, is FBO’s are being dished out much more liberally, and in much more worrying circumstances.





The legal bit

There are two ways you can get a banning order.

a) Under section 14(a) with which most people are familiar this is a criminal sanction following a conviction, typically of a football related offence.

b) Under section 14 (b) a civil injunction following a complaint by the police.

A banning order under section 14 (b) is exactly the same as one under section 14 (a) in duration, terms and restriction of freedoms, but you don’t have to be convicted (in fact you don’t even need to be arrested) of any offence for the police to apply

So what is a risk supporter?

The national police definition is someone “ whether known or not, who can be regarded as posing a possible risk to public order or any anti social behaviour, whether planned or spontaneous, at or in connection with a football match.

Can the police decide this with little or no evidence?

Yes, someone the police think poses a risk is a risk

How do you become a risk supporter?

There are no hard and fast rules, but associating with risk supporters is likely to see you classed as one too.

So anyone who attends a game could become a risk supporter

Yes

So you could attend a game and be talking to a known risk supporter without either of us realising it?

That is correct.

Do people know they are risk supporters?

No, the police don’t inform people that they have been categorised as risk supporters.


The anatomy of the section 14 (b) banning order

So you probably still think that you’d have to do something fairly impressive for your local force to bring a case against you and threaten you with a banning order? You’d be wrong.

Suppose you head to your next away match, perhaps a local derby or cup game, to pick up a ticket from a mate at a pub a short distance from the ground

As it’s busy, a couple of police officers are there monitoring events, but it’s all good natured, and there is no hint of trouble

You are corralled into a larger group of your fans by the police near the away end; the police spotters are there with their camcorders looking out for trouble makers, but you largely ignore them as you make your way to the ground.

Walking in the throng towards the turnstiles the anticipation and atmosphere grows, and you exchange a few songs (and perhaps a few choice words) with groups of home supporters you pass.

All harmless, regular match day occurrences for many, you may think, unfortunately, each of these decisions could lead you on the road to a football banning order under section 14 (b) of the football supporters act of 1989, as amended by the football (disorder) Act 2000;


Police have used the fact that you have travelled to a game without a ticket as evidence that you are going to contribute to violence or disorder. Unknown to you, there were risk supporters in the pub you chose to stop at, or people on banning orders. The police have now identified you as associating with risk supporters

Your choice of pub indicates you are intent on contributing to disorder with home fans. Conversely if you’d chosen a pub further away that wasn’t a typical matchday pub, the police use this as evidence that disorder was planned away from the ground.

You have been videoed in the police escort. If you weren’t a risk supporter, why else would you require an escort? The fact you had no choice is irrelevant

Swearing and gesturing at opposition fans as been taken as a sign of aggression. The police use this behaviour as evidence that you intend to commit disorder

A worse case scenario of course, but each of these arguments has been used successfully by the police applying for FBO’s.
Section 14 (B) is a civil sanction, the standard of proof is only “in the balance of probabilities” rather than “beyond reasonable doubt”, as criminal cases require



Some will still argue that only fans that have previous offences can be caught up in this, that is untrue and anyone, regardless of who they are, can be a victim of section 14 B

Can we not send in a Disclosure letter to the authorites to see who are on this Risk database. If your name is on any database within an organisation you have the right to know.

sorry to hear of your troubles.. George Orwell was in the know, my ambition is to leave this country when the time is right.

Corky.
5/6 Cardiff City fans are up in the Civil Courts this Monday by South Wales Police.
I am shocked as, there has been virtually no trouble at City games over the last few years and when there has been, they have been arrested there and then and banned through the criminal courts.

Put yourself in my position I am a foster carer and how do I know who I can be friends with , without it jeopardising my position

I have stopped going on away trips because of it and I am selective of where I drink prior to home games and I still don't know if I bother with or in fact whether or not I am a risk supporter myself



It really is a huge get out clause for the OB

Put yourself in my position I am a foster carer and how do I know who I can be friends with , without it jeopardising my position

I have stopped going on away trips because of it and I am selective of where I drink prior to home games and I still don't know if I bother with or in fact whether or not I am a risk supporter myself



It really is a huge get out clause for the OB

Baz, the only people you know would ALL be classed as "risk" lol

Put yourself in my position I am a foster carer and how do I know who I can be friends with , without it jeopardising my position

I have stopped going on away trips because of it and I am selective of where I drink prior to home games and I still don't know if I bother with or in fact whether or not I am a risk supporter myself



It really is a huge get out clause for the OB

Baz, the only people you know would ALL be classed as "risk" lol

I know Porth railway station on match day is a who's who of high risk supporters lol

Those five or six need to contact me ASAP

Those five or six need to contact me ASAP

I think one has Corky, the others I dont know their names.

Corky as you can see by my username you can guess where I live now but ex Neath, a mates boy who is a jack (by the way I took him to every Wales game from 14) got in a bit a trouble this season and I gave him your details and the FFS legal h contacts he could not give them enough praise big thanks obviously could not thank you directly

Corky.
5/6 Cardiff City fans are up in the Civil Courts this Monday by South Wales Police.
I am shocked as, there has been virtually no trouble at City games over the last few years and when there has been, they have been arrested there and then and banned through the criminal courts.

very shocked at this............have spoken in depth with fans from other clubs that have visited this year who thought the experience un recognisable from previous visits to us at NP down the years. and away,ive done all bar Chelsea,havent seen a fight,or even groups giving it the big one and calling it on...........
i was there for the seventies and eighties and do see why it went all heavy handed with the OB....
it looks like they are LOOKING for work,as the problem they were employed to stop..very much has stopped.

Corky as you can see by my username you can guess where I live now but ex Neath, a mates boy who is a jack (by the way I took him to every Wales game from 14) got in a bit a trouble this season and I gave him your details and the FFS legal h contacts he could not give them enough praise big thanks obviously could not thank you directly

No problem, we are here to help, obviously if someone has committed a crime at the football all we can offer is legal advice...and we do not encourage acts of violence or vandalism,or bullying etc.
Section 14b really does need a lot of evidence to be proven but once in court its very difficult for the fan,so they need to ensure they get the best legal advise as possible,before attending court.
Fans get scared/confused once they face prosecutions,fines etc. and sometimes don't fully understand what they are getting done for and that is why we provide help.
There are some fans that need to be banned but I still believe too many get banned when other courses of punishment could be used first, before a FBO is issued...such as 5 game club bans, or club stopping away tickets for three months etc.

This is more evidence of the police state we are turning into. We have seen it with peaceful protests being smashed by the filth. What has happened to innocent till proven guilty? This "law" is so weighted in the police's favor it's frightening, as others have said orwell wasn't far off was he ?

its a case of having to find people to prosecute to maintain a budget.
the longer it goes on ,the more innocent people will be caught up in it.
is there really a need for the South Wales Police to be at all our away games, or attending travel club meetings anymore.?

Maybe the various supporters groups could work out the marginal seats for forthcoming elections.Advise members to vote appropriately to course maximum political damage.Parliament is full of greedy money grabbers who would cut cards with any groups who would help them keep their snout in the trough.Remember when Charlton put supporters on the council and won back the Valley.

I have been civil banned it's a nightmare to fight ,guilt by association is their favourite phrase