Chris Kamara

He done our game for Sky yesterday and was raving about Medel.

Hes on Goals On Sunday this morning and still raving about him.

Seems weve got some player on our hands.

We certainly have, he is the stand out player at the moment.

LIES LIES - THE STATS SAY OTHERWISE

Medel looked quality yesterday, excellent covering at RB when required.

Id love to know how the stat geeks come up with hes only won 57% of his "duels" this season

Have they done us on GOS this morning? I missed the first 20 minutes

Have they done us on GOS this morning? I missed the first 20 minutes

Yes mate

Have they done us on GOS this morning? I missed the first 20 minutes

We were first.

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Another one 1st half Whitts put an absolute pearler of a cross in the area between goalie and defence and Campell or Odenwingie didnt read it or get on end of it.

That would go down on his stats as an incomplete pass.

One word to describe Madel.....unbelievable!

Polo you seem particularly hurt by this

They say hes win 57% duels because they are looking at him through a neutral perspective and simply counting them - nothing scientific.

Hes a good player, i dont think anyone has attempted to say differently. What has been said is he isnt doing any more than Canas who was got for next to nothing.

As for Chris Kamara

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Nah, numbers crunched across a season will find a consistency and find weaknesses, Hudson mentioned it as a big part of Malky being better than Dave Jones (which makes sense as Dave Jones is a manager stuck in 2001 and Malky is a manager that is always trying to improve) in his attention to detail in these things. There is always more too it however, but it is a good way to stop people making statements that are categorically untrue. A lot of our fans used to hate Hudson remember when it was clear from his input to games he was one of the best and our midfield lost possession too much, but we conceded goals, so it must be Hudson's faul!!11

But then There is always going to be more too it than stats otherwise there would be no point watching the game if you could decide in advanced who would win. Gunnar, Medel and Mutch are our most physical midfield three and stats aren't ever going to show you that's influence on the game really. Yet Mutch's strength as critical in the winner.

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Nah, numbers crunched across a season will find a consistency and find weaknesses, Hudson mentioned it as a big part of Malky being better than Dave Jones (which makes sense as Dave Jones is a manager stuck in 2001 and Malky is a manager that is always trying to improve) in his attention to detail in these things. There is always more too it however, but it is a good way to stop people making statements that are categorically untrue. A lot of our fans used to hate Hudson remember when it was clear from his input to games he was one of the best and our midfield lost possession too much, but we conceded goals, so it must be Hudson's faul!!11

But then There is always going to be more too it than stats otherwise there would be no point watching the game if you could decide in advanced who would win. Gunnar, Medel and Mutch are our most physical midfield three and stats aren't ever going to show you that's influence on the game really. Yet Mutch's strength as critical in the winner.

Agreed.

The relationship OPTA has with clubs is vital for match analysis and match preparation used by coaches, sports scientists, football analysts and managers across the world in all the top leagues.

The people who say the opposite are usually those that dont like what a particular stat reveals or says.

Polo you seem particularly hurt by this

They say hes win 57% duels because they are looking at him through a neutral perspective and simply counting them - nothing scientific.

Hes a good player, i dont think anyone has attempted to say differently. What has been said is he isnt doing any more than Canas who was got for next to nothing.

As for Chris Kamara

Canas is dog shit compared to Medel. f**k your stats, Canas is a scruffy tramp

Polo you seem particularly hurt by this

They say hes win 57% duels because they are looking at him through a neutral perspective and simply counting them - nothing scientific.

Hes a good player, i dont think anyone has attempted to say differently. What has been said is he isnt doing any more than Canas who was got for next to nothing.

As for Chris Kamara

Canas is dog shit compared to Medel. f**k your stats, Canas is a scruffy tramp

Exhibit A

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Nah, numbers crunched across a season will find a consistency and find weaknesses, Hudson mentioned it as a big part of Malky being better than Dave Jones (which makes sense as Dave Jones is a manager stuck in 2001 and Malky is a manager that is always trying to improve) in his attention to detail in these things. There is always more too it however, but it is a good way to stop people making statements that are categorically untrue. A lot of our fans used to hate Hudson remember when it was clear from his input to games he was one of the best and our midfield lost possession too much, but we conceded goals, so it must be Hudson's faul!!11

But then There is always going to be more too it than stats otherwise there would be no point watching the game if you could decide in advanced who would win. Gunnar, Medel and Mutch are our most physical midfield three and stats aren't ever going to show you that's influence on the game really. Yet Mutch's strength as critical in the winner.

But that is the crux of the matter. A manager and coaching staff are not just blindly led by stats. There is tactical analysis and tirelessly watching games to see whether incomplete passes were attempted killer balls or just crab passing.

The problem when fans use stats to interpret games, this is done in isolation and makes them look like fools.

One particular game that comes to mind was our carling cup final against liverpool where our own fans came home saying we were battered cos of liverpool amount of attempts at goal.
I couldn't understand how people could come home from that game, having watched it themselves and come to conclusion (based on stats alone) that we were shit!

don't worry canas will have another slap of medel this season

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Nah, numbers crunched across a season will find a consistency and find weaknesses, Hudson mentioned it as a big part of Malky being better than Dave Jones (which makes sense as Dave Jones is a manager stuck in 2001 and Malky is a manager that is always trying to improve) in his attention to detail in these things. There is always more too it however, but it is a good way to stop people making statements that are categorically untrue. A lot of our fans used to hate Hudson remember when it was clear from his input to games he was one of the best and our midfield lost possession too much, but we conceded goals, so it must be Hudson's faul!!11

But then There is always going to be more too it than stats otherwise there would be no point watching the game if you could decide in advanced who would win. Gunnar, Medel and Mutch are our most physical midfield three and stats aren't ever going to show you that's influence on the game really. Yet Mutch's strength as critical in the winner.

But that is the crux of the matter. A manager and coaching staff are not just blindly led by stats. There is tactical analysis and tirelessly watching games to see whether incomplete passes were attempted killer balls or just crab passing.

The problem when fans use stats to interpret games, this is done in isolation and makes them look like fools.

One particular game that comes to mind was our carling cup final against liverpool where our own fans came home saying we were battered cos of liverpool amount of attempts at goal.
I couldn't understand how people could come home from that game, having watched it themselves and come to conclusion (based on stats alone) that we were shit!

"Crab passing" is a term used for people who dont understand the role of the defensive midfielder.

Gary Medel was 'beaten' to "least forward passes" only by a center back in one game this season, with only 9% of his passes forwards. This isnt a criticism but a point that this is exactly the job if the defensive midfielder. Yet its used a stick to beat one with but not the other depending on what side of the fence you sit.

Ive asked time and time again but still dont have an answer apart from some rubbish about caps for Chile. So ill ask again in the hope of some sense...

Im sure its known that the role of the defensive midfielder is to break up opponents play, get passing moves started and flowing and try to keep posession.... So if Canas and Medel both play in the same league and Canas makes more passes, more accurately, creates more chances, makes more key passes and makes more successful tackles while winning more duels..... In what way is medel performing better?

This whole hoo-haa has simply come down to that question and that question alone, yet nobody has supplied the answer.

Stats are an interesting way to break down a game and approach another, but they can't tell you psychological impact players have on the game, on the opposition or the players around said player.

Medel is quality

I think stats are pretty much useless when it comes to football.

I'll give you an example using our own team yesterday. Just before we scored richardson flashed the ball straight across our goal about 2 yards out yet on the stats this wouldn't be listed but in actual fact that was one best chances in the whole match.

A few minutes earlier bellamy ridiculously shoot from a free kick about 45 yards out and this is list as an attempt on goal!

It amazes me when people watch a game with their own 2 eyes but still rely on the stats to tell them who deserved to win a match!

Nah, numbers crunched across a season will find a consistency and find weaknesses, Hudson mentioned it as a big part of Malky being better than Dave Jones (which makes sense as Dave Jones is a manager stuck in 2001 and Malky is a manager that is always trying to improve) in his attention to detail in these things. There is always more too it however, but it is a good way to stop people making statements that are categorically untrue. A lot of our fans used to hate Hudson remember when it was clear from his input to games he was one of the best and our midfield lost possession too much, but we conceded goals, so it must be Hudson's faul!!11

But then There is always going to be more too it than stats otherwise there would be no point watching the game if you could decide in advanced who would win. Gunnar, Medel and Mutch are our most physical midfield three and stats aren't ever going to show you that's influence on the game really. Yet Mutch's strength as critical in the winner.

But that is the crux of the matter. A manager and coaching staff are not just blindly led by stats. There is tactical analysis and tirelessly watching games to see whether incomplete passes were attempted killer balls or just crab passing.

The problem when fans use stats to interpret games, this is done in isolation and makes them look like fools.

One particular game that comes to mind was our carling cup final against liverpool where our own fans came home saying we were battered cos of liverpool amount of attempts at goal.
I couldn't understand how people could come home from that game, having watched it themselves and come to conclusion (based on stats alone) that we were shit!

"Crab passing" is a term used for people who dont understand the role of the defensive midfielder.

Gary Medel was 'beaten' to "least forward passes" only by a center back in one game this season, with only 9% of his passes forwards. This isnt a criticism but a point that this is exactly the job if the defensive midfielder. Yet its used a stick to beat one with but not the other depending on what side of the fence you sit.

Ive asked time and time again but still dont have an answer apart from some rubbish about caps for Chile. So ill ask again in the hope of some sense...

Im sure its known that the role of the defensive midfielder is to break up opponents play, get passing moves started and flowing and try to keep posession.... So if Canas and Medel both play in the same league and Canas makes more passes, more accurately, creates more chances, makes more key passes and makes more successful tackles while winning more duels..... In what way is medel performing better?

This whole hoo-haa has simply come down to that question and that question alone, yet nobody has supplied the answer.

I'm not saying that crab passing isn't valuable. What I am saying is that you are more likely to concede possession with a killer pass than you are passing sideways or backwards. That is a fact

I'm not saying that crab passing isn't valuable. What I am saying is that you are more likely to concede possession with a killer pass than you are passing sideways or backwards. That is a fact

Which is why the stats of average pass length, key passes and chances created that come with pass success %.

I'm not saying that crab passing isn't valuable. What I am saying is that you are more likely to concede possession with a killer pass than you are passing sideways or backwards. That is a fact

Which is why the stats of average pass length, key passes and chances created that come with pass success %.

That still doesnt paint the picture mate.
To me it shows that a lot of fans are unable to watch a game and seeing what is going on for themselves so they need this computer to interpret the game for them

But fans watch their own games and are biased towards their players, a southend fan can say their striker is better than van persie and hide behind "an opinion" yet the stats will show otherwise and he can still deny the facts and say he uses his eyes.

Still nobody has answered. If one defensive midfielder breaks up play more often, makes more successful defensive moves, passes more often and more accurately, creates more chances and key passes then how can the other be outperforming him?

To say "coz he is, stats mean shit" is meaningless and exactly the sort of response the debate gets.

Roath Magic my arse. You only come on here because you support a hick town team and their forum is crap. Bottom line I wouldn't have Canas in our reserves, Metdel takes it every time. If you want to compare cost of players how about Cambell vs Bony who is a bit part sub. If you like stats compare their 'minutes on the pitch'.

And while we are on it where do you get off with 'Roath' magic. If you were from Roath you'd support city and you can't be because there are no Gypo sites in Roath.

Pathetic little man.

Roath Magic my arse. You only come on here because you support a hick town team and their forum is crap. Bottom line I wouldn't have Canas in our reserves, Metdel takes it every time. If you want to compare cost of players how about Cambell vs Bony who is a bit part sub. If you like stats compare their 'minutes on the pitch'.

And while we are on it where do you get off with 'Roath' magic. If you were from Roath you'd support city and you can't be because there are no Gypo sites in Roath.

Pathetic little man.

Exhibit B.

Im not from Roath but lived there for a large portion of my life. Im more than happy to do a Bony v Campbell thread if you like and i am pretty sure it will be favourable to Bony when he actually starts games.

Canas is outperforming Medel, thats a fact. If you wish to dismiss it then thats up to you.

It's like talking to the wall mun. Swansea have been recognised since they got promoted to the championship as a team who has a system that relies on keeping the ball and playing the 'spanish' way. No one player is responsible for this but it was a system implemented by roberto martinez and it has been carried on by subsequent managers.

We were recognised for playing a bit more of a direct game to get out of the championship last year. Gary Medel has come in and is single handedly changing our style of play by bossing games pretty much on his own at times.

Canas or Britton wouldn't have been able to do this in their wildest dreams imo.

hope this helps.

Roath Magic my arse. You only come on here because you support a hick town team and their forum is crap. Bottom line I wouldn't have Canas in our reserves, Metdel takes it every time. If you want to compare cost of players how about Cambell vs Bony who is a bit part sub. If you like stats compare their 'minutes on the pitch'.

And while we are on it where do you get off with 'Roath' magic. If you were from Roath you'd support city and you can't be because there are no Gypo sites in Roath.

Pathetic little man.

Did you not know the weirdo lives in australia??? australia my arse, he's on this site night and day, he's a total fruit loop.

It's like talking to the wall mun. Swansea have been recognised since they got promoted to the championship as a team who has a system that relies on keeping the ball and playing the 'spanish' way. No one player is responsible for this but it was a system implemented by roberto martinez and it has been carried on by subsequent managers.

We were recognised for playing a bit more of a direct game to get out of the championship last year. Gary Medel has come in and is single handedly changing our style of play by bossing games pretty much on his own at times.

Canas or Britton wouldn't have been able to do this in their wildest dreams imo.

hope this helps.

We havent always played like this either. Britton was key into turning is into what we are now. Canas came in and has taken over the reigns seemlessly.

I still havent heard a reasonable explanation how someone can do less of the key roles involved in a position yet still be better on the basis "he just is". In my opinion its simply down to his price tag.

As for the other poster, this website isnt based in cardiff you know i can be anywhere and log on here, its a website. Ive proven i live here time and time again. If you dont believe me thats just your paranoia im afraid.

Now how about actually contributing to the thread?

My only contribution to the stats/Medel defensive midfielder discussions:

You could argue that Canas has the advantage of players around him with more experience at this level, thus making themselves available to receive the ball more often and in better positions. I could therefore argue that Medel is better as he is in an inexperienced side at this level so his contribution is more impressive. Where are the stats for the number of passes to players with 2 or more years experience at Premier league level? Stats are interesting but are pretty black and white. Intelligence, experience, understanding and common sense are required when looking at them!