" Debt-free life in PL for Swansea and Cardiff "

BBC Tuesday 13th August 2013


" Debt-free life in Premier League for Swansea and Cardiff "


For many Welsh football fans, I'm sure the prospect of two clubs in the Premier League is almost unbelievable.

But another extraordinary prospect is to have two Welsh clubs in the Premier League which are debt free.

Swansea City are already there and have done it by being prudent with their spending, enforcing a wage cap and not having major costs associated with building a new stadium.

Cardiff City on the other hand are not there yet. Much depends on what decision is made next by the man who controls the club, the Malaysian fast-food franchise and property tycoon, Vincent Tan.

There have been some major developments recently.

The biggest is that an old loan of £24m was settled for an undisclosed sum with the Swiss-based firm Langston, which is linked to the former chairman Sam Hammam.

Last month, Mr Tan repeated a commitment that if that legacy debt was settled, he would convert his loans with the club into shares.

It is unclear exactly how much he is owed by the club but he said at a news conference that he will have invested around £120m to get the club into the Premier League debt-free.

Keith Morgan, a football finance expert and member of Cardiff City Supporters' Trust, said it could be a huge boost.

"Very few clubs, even operating at the highest level, can claim to be debt free," he said.

"Even the biggest clubs carry a huge debt burden, they're just fortunate to have an income stream large enough to carry that burden.

"Not to have to plough income into historical debt is a tremendous boost for any club. It makes it very attractive for other investors to come in and put their money on board."

TV revenues
One of the big questions is whether Cardiff City can stem the losses racked up in the Championship and make money like Swansea who have been profitable in the Premier League in their first two seasons.

It has taken Cardiff decades to get into the top flight but their timing is impeccable because the television revenues are going to rocket thanks to the arrival of BT who pushed up the price when they bid against Sky to show live matches.

Cardiff's revenues are likely to quadruple to around £80m. But of course their costs are going to soar as well, in particular the wage bill which stood at £18m during the 2011/12 season.

In comparison, a recent study by football finance experts at the accountants' Deloittes put Swansea City's wage bill at £35m, the lowest in the Premier League.

Swansea have prided themselves on keeping a lid on costs. Their wage bill is worth around 65% of their overall revenue, less than the average.

Vice chairman Leigh Dineen said: "A football club business is different to any other business - you should always have two scenarios going forward.

"In the case of us, that's being in the Premier League the following year or relegation.

"With relegation comes a lot less revenue so therefore we have to budget and plan so that if we go down, our costs would mirror our revenue.

"If you do that, then you have a chance - if you ever drop down - of being sustainable and with a chance to progress.

"If you don't do it, you end up with a wage bill bigger than your revenues and that's where the likes of Portsmouth have got themselves into trouble over the years."

Both clubs will have huge revenues this season, largely down to the television money.

Their individual incomes will be higher than the Welsh Rugby Union but there are enormous costs as well associated with buying and paying players in the world's richest football league.

Swansea will forever be in debt to those creditors they ripped off! Their league survival is basically down to theft in it?

Swansea will forever be in debt to those creditors they ripped off! Their league survival is basically down to theft in it?

Yes I notice how they fail to mention the fact they have been into administration because of unsustainable debt of which they paid a fraction of it back.

We owed less then a million, tan has pumped 125m in to u.
How the f**k can u even consider what we did was wron?.
And by the way the local businesses that lost money have all been rewarded by our rise.
St john's openly admitted that they now have much success and are happy with the club and the fact that both are doing so well.
Yes we went in to admin but unlike other clubs who do so we have repaid them by continually use of there
If tan gets bored and pulls the plug your fucked.
And it only makes u more his toy to play with and u now have no say of your club.
We are above u in players and respect for the way we play and run the club, and with money in the bank, a strong first team and now allso strong squad, and all still our club.
For all the millions tan is giving u! Your future is cloudy at best and must take everything he says.
Lol year well done cardiff city.
A proud asian toy

Swansea will forever be in debt to those creditors they ripped off! Their league survival is basically down to theft in it?

Yes I notice how they fail to mention the fact they have been into administration because of unsustainable debt of which they paid a fraction of it back.

Like what you just did to Langston at a rate 15 times bigger?

we own our own ground costs money that

we own our own ground costs money that

more fool you.

we own our own ground costs money that

more fool you.

rent boy

we own our own ground costs money that

more fool you.

rent boy

debt crippler

we own our own ground costs money that

more fool you.

rent boy

debt crippler

Roathie is here. PTB

we own our own ground costs money that

more fool you.

rent boy

debt crippler

Roathie is here. PTB

Batton down the hatches

We owed less then a million, tan has pumped 125m in to u.
How the f**k can u even consider what we did was wron?.
And by the way the local businesses that lost money have all been rewarded by our rise.
St john's openly admitted that they now have much success and are happy with the club and the fact that both are doing so well.
Yes we went in to admin but unlike other clubs who do so we have repaid them by continually use of there
If tan gets bored and pulls the plug your fucked.
And it only makes u more his toy to play with and u now have no say of your club.
We are above u in players and respect for the way we play and run the club, and with money in the bank, a strong first team and now allso strong squad, and all still our club.
For all the millions tan is giving u! Your future is cloudy at best and must take everything he says.
Lol year well done cardiff city.
A proud asian toy

Firstly why add £5m to the reported amount? The article clearly states £120m not £125m.

There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it and therefore can't possibly be benefiting from your current 'success.' Without doubt Swansea's perennial Administration's was at a cost to local businesses.

Yes we have no say over the running of our club, in exactly the same way you have no voice in the running of your club. You have been incredibly lucky with finances so far, but you have the lowest wage bill in the PL and more importantly the lowest potential and that is bound to catch up with you sooner or later. At that point YOU won't be able to influence the board to spend money they haven't got any more than we can, even with the Supporters Trust having representation.

VT isn't going to pull the plug on £120m investment so that is absolutely fanciful thinking.

The article was about the two Welsh clubs being 'debt free.' Correctly they state you are already there and we are hot on your tails in doing the same. But the BIG question is can we both maintain it?

I honestly think you can’t because there is a glass ceiling to how far you can go and eventually due to circumstances (relegation battle or severe injury crisis) you will spend too much or even too little trying to stand still and the roof will cave in. While our future is not guaranteed we have a better outlook due to our Chairman’s contacts in the fastest growing economic area in the World, Asia.

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

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really? name them...

it doesnt really matter how much the debt is if its not sustainable, 1 million was a huge amount for a small club back then, same with newport and maidstone, hardly owed anything but it sunk them. We will be debt free very soon, what will the unwashed moan about then?? Its ok for chelsea and man cit to BUY the league title though eh?

small club, small city, small mentality.....

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

.

really? name them...

It is an opinion based on the balance of probabilities. If you want to change those probabilities then you do the spade work

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

.

really? name them...

It is an opinion based on the balance of probabilities. If you want to change those probabilities then you do the spade work

so if you don't know the companies then how do you know the probability of them going bust based on a default of debt which sum you also don't know?!

what a nonsense opinion.

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

.

really? name them...

It is an opinion based on the balance of probabilities. If you want to change those probabilities then you do the spade work

so if you don't know the companies then how do you know the probability of them going bust based on a default of debt which sum you also don't know?!

what a nonsense opinion.

That's your opinion but mine remains the same. I base it on the fact that by Swansea not paying their bills (twice) that disgraceful behaviour was bound to cause cash flow problems in the companies they owed money to. Some in all probability some could have gone bankrupt because of it. Either way Swansea didn't do any favours as was inferred in the OP

It is a logical OPINION based on what we know. I can't tell you what I don't know but I can still hold an opinion based on what I do know. Of course as your completely deluded you won't be able to understand that, will you?

Roathie is really struggling to wind us up lately. He'll have nothing left soon

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

.

really? name them...

It is an opinion based on the balance of probabilities. If you want to change those probabilities then you do the spade work

so if you don't know the companies then how do you know the probability of them going bust based on a default of debt which sum you also don't know?!

what a nonsense opinion.

That's your opinion but mine remains the same. I base it on the fact that by Swansea not paying their bills (twice) that disgraceful behaviour was bound to cause cash flow problems in the companies they owed money to. Some in all probability some could have gone bankrupt because of it. Either way Swansea didn't do any favours as was inferred in the OP

It is a logical OPINION based on what we know. I can't tell you what I don't know but I can still hold an opinion based on what I do know. Of course as your completely deluded you won't be able to understand that, will you?

Its not an opinion. Its a guess based in nothing, you dont know how much was owed or who to. Its the sort of dumb opinion a twelve year old would come up with.

If you claim companies went bust then name them as its quite well know that none did. If you kniw different, please, educate us all

* the £17 million you didnt pay langston back, will probably have made a lot of people lose their jobs as the company try to cut costs. Shame

Sorry boys your clutching at Straws

The footballing world can sing swanseas praises all they want, we all know the truth here.

Bunch of robbing scummy gypos, sh1tting on their own too! Shame on you!

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There must be local businesses which lost out when you went into Admin who are no longer trading because of it.

.

really? name them...

It is an opinion based on the balance of probabilities. If you want to change those probabilities then you do the spade work

so if you don't know the companies then how do you know the probability of them going bust based on a default of debt which sum you also don't know?!

what a nonsense opinion.

That's your opinion but mine remains the same. I base it on the fact that by Swansea not paying their bills (twice) that disgraceful behaviour was bound to cause cash flow problems in the companies they owed money to. Some in all probability some could have gone bankrupt because of it. Either way Swansea didn't do any favours as was inferred in the OP

It is a logical OPINION based on what we know. I can't tell you what I don't know but I can still hold an opinion based on what I do know. Of course as your completely deluded you won't be able to understand that, will you?

Its not an opinion. Its a guess based in nothing, you dont know how much was owed or who to. Its the sort of dumb opinion a twelve year old would come up with.

If you claim companies went bust then name them as its quite well know that none did. If you kniw different, please, educate us all

* the £17 million you didnt pay langston back, will probably have made a lot of people lose their jobs as the company try to cut costs. Shame

What's worse? Stealing £200 life savings from an old lady or defrauding Barclays of 2 million quid?

[quote="Gareth (Wilts)"]

If you stole £200 life savings while living on bread and water because you cant afford to live.... Or spending millions on luxuries and continuing to steal millions?

Then the second one by quite some distance.

If you stole £200 life savings while living on bread and water because you cant afford to live.... Or spending millions on luxuries and continuing to steal millions?

Then the second one by quite some distance.

Bollocks. Stealing from the needy is far worse. Mind you what else would i expect from a sad internet trolllike you roathie

If you stole £200 life savings while living on bread and water because you cant afford to live.... Or spending millions on luxuries and continuing to steal millions?

Then the second one by quite some distance.

Bollocks. Stealing from the needy is far worse. Mind you what else would i expect from a sad internet trolllike you roathie

How do you know they are needy? You cant even name any of the companies you plum