So Sam H was sitting with the Fans last night

From what the Wales Online report says, Sam Hammann was sitting with the city fans last night posing for photos and signing autographs. For any1 who was there, was there any abuse thrown at him because the majority seem to hate him on here?

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From what the Wales Online report says, Sam Hammann was sitting with the city fans last night posing for photos and signing autographs. For any1 who was there, was there any abuse thrown at him because the majority seem to hate him on here?

Exactly, on here and on the other message board thingy where most are under 10 or half dead - brain wise anyway.

The old school original message boarders are posting less and less but when they do you can tell the difference.

Why would anyone want to abuse Sam, is CCFC gone? did he instruct/instigate the re-brand? is he interfering with Malky (you know what I mean!). Basically no, he's a guy with monies who took us form the shit hole we were in, gave us success, gave us a platform, and then made numerous mistakes which could have been catastrophic. We are now in th ebest position we have been for donkeys years - and yet the numptys want to pick on one old man who basically rattles a few cages but has one thing you have to admire - he wnats success and he wants it for CCFC.

Now I agree I wouldn't let Sam anywhere near our finances, the bar till but if he's settled his beef with the club, Tan turns his debt into equity and we move on strnger, then the man has done the right thing (albeit a few years late) and we should move on.

Mind you if he paints those eye-brows blue you'll know where he stands on the re-brand but he's more lilkely to have one blue and one red

Is anyone going to shout abuse at Sam with the inner circle alive and well surrounding him, is this going to start all over again dividing fans

Is anyone going to shout abuse at Sam with the inner circle alive and well surrounding him, is this going to start all over again dividing fans

I won't say no to free travel and champagne at an away match

Don't give a feck who pays, I'll join any circle, squaere, triangle if it's free grog.

For me i dont like to dwell on the past regarding anything in life, Sam being here does not bother me one bit as Tan is the main man. People should stop giving it the big one on here because i bet they were the ones bumming for autogtaphs lastnight.

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Is anyone going to shout abuse at Sam with the inner circle alive and well surrounding him, is this going to start all over again dividing fans

I won't say no to free travel and champagne at an away match

Don't give a feck who pays, I'll join any circle, squaere, triangle if it's free grog.

I enjoyed that ,champers and Mansfield away

Personally, I used to be one of Sam's biggest critics but it shows what state the club has come to when his return actually has me hoping he can help Tan see sense with the blue issue. I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them but in a limited capacity maybe, just maybe, we could use Hammam to help get what we want on the rebrand issue and in other areas of the way the club is run.

Either that or we are now proper fucked!

Exactly, on here and on the other message board thingy where most are under 10 or half dead - brain wise anyway.

The old school original message boarders are posting less and less but when they do you can tell the difference.

Why would anyone want to abuse Sam, is CCFC gone? did he instruct/instigate the re-brand? is he interfering with Malky (you know what I mean!). Basically no, he's a guy with monies who took us form the shit hole we were in, gave us success, gave us a platform, and then made numerous mistakes which could have been catastrophic. We are now in th ebest position we have been for donkeys years - and yet the numptys want to pick on one old man who basically rattles a few cages but has one thing you have to admire - he wnats success and he wants it for CCFC.

Now I agree I wouldn't let Sam anywhere near our finances, the bar till but if he's settled his beef with the club, Tan turns his debt into equity and we move on strnger, then the man has done the right thing (albeit a few years late) and we should move on.

Mind you if he paints those eye-brows blue you'll know where he stands on the re-brand but he's more lilkely to have one blue and one red

Summed that up brilliantly in my view arri potta.

Most of the comments that are attributed to Sam are at best supposition (he 'scammed' the club) or urban myths (threatened to put us into liquidation). You don't even have to scratch the surface to find out its all bollocks. The forensic accounts added up to nothing (pardon the pun) and the above quote originated from Peter Ridsdale (do I really need to explain further?)

There is even accepted view that Justice Briggs (from the Summary Hearing in 2008) referred to Sam Hammam as 'shady'. No such reference was ever made the closest comment was that if the case went to a full hearing then the actual members of 'Langston' would have to be identified; pretty obvious really as they were the ones suing the club.

I always take the view that if Sam hadn't woken us up in 2000 we would still be bobbing around the lower divisions and would never have played in FA Cup or League Cup Finals.

Yes he wanted his money back but as he wasn’t allowed to finish the job due the interference of local politicians and the business scheming and asset stripping of PMG so in that case I can absolute understand why.

Personally, I used to be one of Sam's biggest critics but it shows what state the club has come to when his return actually has me hoping he can help Tan see sense with the blue issue. I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them but in a limited capacity maybe, just maybe, we could use Hammam to help get what we want on the rebrand issue and in other areas of the way the club is run.

Either that or we are now proper fucked!

I can see your thinking and may be one day. Although I'm sure a naysayer will pop up and remind you Sam once had a plan to change our name, badge and colour (was it green?) as well

Exactly, on here and on the other message board thingy where most are under 10 or half dead - brain wise anyway.

The old school original message boarders are posting less and less but when they do you can tell the difference.

Why would anyone want to abuse Sam, is CCFC gone? did he instruct/instigate the re-brand? is he interfering with Malky (you know what I mean!). Basically no, he's a guy with monies who took us form the shit hole we were in, gave us success, gave us a platform, and then made numerous mistakes which could have been catastrophic. We are now in th ebest position we have been for donkeys years - and yet the numptys want to pick on one old man who basically rattles a few cages but has one thing you have to admire - he wnats success and he wants it for CCFC.

Now I agree I wouldn't let Sam anywhere near our finances, the bar till but if he's settled his beef with the club, Tan turns his debt into equity and we move on strnger, then the man has done the right thing (albeit a few years late) and we should move on.

Mind you if he paints those eye-brows blue you'll know where he stands on the re-brand but he's more lilkely to have one blue and one red

Summed that up brilliantly in my view arri potta.

Most of the comments that are attributed to Sam are at best supposition (he 'scammed' the club) or urban myths (threatened to put us into liquidation). You don't even have to scratch the surface to find out its all bollocks. The forensic accounts added up to nothing (pardon the pun) and the above quote originated from Peter Ridsdale (do I really need to explain further?)

There is even accepted view that Justice Briggs (from the Summary Hearing in 2008) referred to Sam Hammam as 'shady'. No such reference was ever made the closest comment was that if the case went to a full hearing then the actual members of 'Langston' would have to be identified; pretty obvious really as they were the ones suing the club.

I always take the view that if Sam hadn't woken us up in 2000 we would still be bobbing around the lower divisions and would never have played in FA Cup or League Cup Finals.

Yes he wanted his money back but as he wasn’t allowed to finish the job due the interference of local politicians and the business scheming and asset stripping of PMG so in that case I can absolute understand why.

Tony

As I have just said on Mike`s board , I find the personal abuse of Sam to be unwarranted and totally distasteful

But some of the claims his supporters , including yourself , make in his favour simply don`t hold water.

The reason Sam "wasn`t allowed to finish the job" was not any form of political interference , but simply that he had failed to come up with any kind of sensible , viable business plan to support a new stadium build despite being given several deadline extensions to do so. There was no political vendetta against Sam , merely the realisation that he was unable to deliver on his promises and claims so that , in the end , no-one believed a word he said.

You also now refer to PMG as being asset strippers , having previously referred to them as being "crooks" in another post , but have not come up with any cogent argument to support such accusations. Carl very nearly faced a libel claim for making similar unfounded allegations. I am certainly no apologist for PMG as I don`t know them , but not only was it them that got the retail park sale away to fund most of the stadium build but they also provided £9m of hard cash to plug the remaining funding hole near the end. Therefore , what leads you to your opinion that they are crooks or asset strippers

The third "myth" which remains unanswered is the one where it is claimed Sam personally created £20m of benefit to CCFC through the Academy system. Despite being asked repeatedly , those who make the claim have failed to come up with anything to support such a claim. Can you recall where you got the figure from?

Most of the people on here hardly ever seem to go to games. Was a great day yesterday. Good laugh forest Green is. Pertucually liked our we want beef chant

f**k the inner circle. The only reason they love Sam is because it gives them a sense of stature and importance within the club. The reality is they have ZERO.

Sam told lies and almost took this club out of business because of the horrendous way he run our club. f**k Sam.

Tony

As I have just said on Mike`s board , I find the personal abuse of Sam to be unwarranted and totally distasteful

But some of the claims his supporters , including yourself , make in his favour simply don`t hold water.

The reason Sam "wasn`t allowed to finish the job" was not any form of political interference , but simply that he had failed to come up with any kind of sensible , viable business plan to support a new stadium build despite being given several deadline extensions to do so. There was no political vendetta against Sam , merely the realisation that he was unable to deliver on his promises and claims so that , in the end , no-one believed a word he said.

You also now refer to PMG as being asset strippers , having previously referred to them as being "crooks" in another post , but have not come up with any cogent argument to support such accusations. Carl very nearly faced a libel claim for making similar unfounded allegations. I am certainly no apologist for PMG as I don`t know them , but not only was it them that got the retail park sale away to fund most of the stadium build but they also provided £9m of hard cash to plug the remaining funding hole near the end. Therefore , what leads you to your opinion that they are crooks or asset strippers

The third "myth" which remains unanswered is the one where it is claimed Sam personally created £20m of benefit to CCFC through the Academy system. Despite being asked repeatedly , those who make the claim have failed to come up with anything to support such a claim. Can you recall where you got the figure from?

I accept the argument that Sam got himself into a bit of a pickle over providing a credible business plan, but I don't accept that there wasn't political interference. Sam's plans were well on track whilst Russell Goodway was in charge but when Sam openly backed him (remember the letters urging City fans to vote Labour) in the 2003 elections he laid himself wide open to the vindictiveness Rodney Berman once he became Council Leader.

It was AFTER these elections that we had the problems of the business plan and even though I admit Sam didn't help himself there is strong circumstantial evidence that there was some political interference aimed at destabilising Sam's plans for a new stadium.

As for PMG they arrived on the scene just at the right time and someone had to have convinced Peter Ridsdale to stab Sam in the back. I don't have a smoking gun, but seeing as they inherited the Retail Park project which was worth Millions of Pounds to them, the circumstantial evidence grows.

Yes they did provide a facility of £9m in shortfall funding. Correct me if I’m wrong but it was explained to me that that cash never came out of their pockets, instead they acted as guarantors for a loan from the Principality Building Society and every penny (including a 7% cut for themselves) was paid back through the Premier Seat subscriptions and ALL advertising on the main stand.

They then acquired land which had previously been valued at £6m for £1.9m so a tax bill could be paid and there was other land also given to them.

I’m not bothered by veiled threats of being sued. I’d happily take them on in court if that’s how they feel.

As I have said before they have acted in absolute self-interest. Whilst they may not have done anything illegal they certainly are very sharp businessmen who will trample all over people to get what they want and in conclusion I have nothing but distain for them.

As for the academy its self explanatory the players which graduated (including Ledley, Gunter etc.) were sold to keep the club afloat along with players who were bought and developed Gabbidon, Collins, Chopra, Johnson etc.

pic anyone? CCFC

Tony

As I have just said on Mike`s board , I find the personal abuse of Sam to be unwarranted and totally distasteful

But some of the claims his supporters , including yourself , make in his favour simply don`t hold water.

The reason Sam "wasn`t allowed to finish the job" was not any form of political interference , but simply that he had failed to come up with any kind of sensible , viable business plan to support a new stadium build despite being given several deadline extensions to do so. There was no political vendetta against Sam , merely the realisation that he was unable to deliver on his promises and claims so that , in the end , no-one believed a word he said.

You also now refer to PMG as being asset strippers , having previously referred to them as being "crooks" in another post , but have not come up with any cogent argument to support such accusations. Carl very nearly faced a libel claim for making similar unfounded allegations. I am certainly no apologist for PMG as I don`t know them , but not only was it them that got the retail park sale away to fund most of the stadium build but they also provided £9m of hard cash to plug the remaining funding hole near the end. Therefore , what leads you to your opinion that they are crooks or asset strippers

The third "myth" which remains unanswered is the one where it is claimed Sam personally created £20m of benefit to CCFC through the Academy system. Despite being asked repeatedly , those who make the claim have failed to come up with anything to support such a claim. Can you recall where you got the figure from?

I accept the argument that Sam got himself into a bit of a pickle over providing a credible business plan, but I don't accept that there wasn't political interference. Sam's plans were well on track whilst Russell Goodway was in charge but when Sam openly backed him (remember the letters urging City fans to vote Labour) in the 2003 elections he laid himself wide open to the vindictiveness Rodney Berman once he became Council Leader.

It was AFTER these elections that we had the problems of the business plan and even though I admit Sam didn't help himself there is strong circumstantial evidence that there was some political interference aimed at destabilising Sam's plans for a new stadium.

As for PMG they arrived on the scene just at the right time and someone had to have convinced Peter Ridsdale to stab Sam in the back. I don't have a smoking gun, but seeing as they inherited the Retail Park project which was worth Millions of Pounds to them, the circumstantial evidence grows.

Yes they did provide a facility of £9m in shortfall funding. Correct me if I’m wrong but it was explained to me that that cash never came out of their pockets, instead they acted as guarantors for a loan from the Principality Building Society and every penny (including a 7% cut for themselves) was paid back through the Premier Seat subscriptions and ALL advertising on the main stand.

They then acquired land which had previously been valued at £6m for £1.9m so a tax bill could be paid and there was other land also given to them.

I’m not bothered by veiled threats of being sued. I’d happily take them on in court if that’s how they feel.

As I have said before they have acted in absolute self-interest. Whilst they may not have done anything illegal they certainly are very sharp businessmen who will trample all over people to get what they want and in conclusion I have nothing but distain for them.

As for the academy its self explanatory the players which graduated (including Ledley, Gunter etc.) were sold to keep the club afloat along with players who were bought and developed Gabbidon, Collins, Chopra, Johnson etc.

I know I can be a stroppy git and come across as confrontational (because I care , like many others , about this club a lot), but it really is not my intention in this case. I am just trying to illustrate how Sam has used Annis , Carl etc. to put out misinformation through this board to further his own agenda at times and the points in this post are a prime example. Please take my responses here to your reply in that spirit.

Sam got himself into more than a "bit of a pickle" over the business plan. It was a total disaster and described in several publicly available documents as being entirely deficient and unacceptable. The same records show that Sam was given every opportunity to improve the plan but was unable/unwilling to do so. It simply did not stack up financially.

Its true that Sam hardly did himself any favours with his political backing of Russell Goodway I have no personal preference between RG (who is a chartered accountant after all!!) and Rodney Berman , but I did take offence at SH abusing his position at CCFC to try and tell season ticket holders how to vote. Notwithstanding that , whoever is nominal head of the Council has no great say or influence over things like SH`s business plan. It was always reviewed and disapproved by senior Council officers who remained in place throughout the period and didn`t change with a change of party in charge. There were great problems with his business plan both before and after the elections you refer to.

PMG didn`t "inherit" the retail park project. They were asked to take over its management because Sam was getting nowhere in attracting enough tenants and the contribution from a fully let retail park was crucial to the overall funding required for the new stadium. Without their input , the project was dead in the water.
The claim that PMG didn`t put in their own cash is another of these myths that Sam has tried spreading through this board. The facts are that they put in £9m of their own cash and on top of that guaranteed a further loan of £2m from the Principality.
I agree with you that PMG were a major partner of Ridsdale in the plot to oust Sam from the club , which is why he has (perhaps understandably) such a grudge against them. He had to be removed for the club to move forward , but they could have done it in a far more open and pleasant way.
PM G did not buy £6m of land for £1.9m but bought £1.9m of land for that price (based on an independent professional valuation commissioned by the Council) and used about a half of the money to pay of a pressing club tax bill. The figures you quote are again misinformation put out by Sam (like the other inaccurate claim that PMG have been given other land) which I commented on ages ago when Annis was asked by Sam to put the same figures on this board.

The threat about being sued bit is because I am concerned Sam is using others to post claims that can be challenged legally so as to avoid being in the firing line himself. Carl was the recent example.

I note the players you list , but how many of those were brought to the club by Sam in his time or were already here and being developed , or how many were established pros. brought in by say Ridsdale as opposed to Sam? Even if you total the profit made on all those players , it still doesn`t come to anything like £20m (Chopra £3m , Gunter £1.2m ,Ledley £0 , Gabbidon and Collins combined £3m , Johnson £3M) but more like half that.Still a profit , but still one of Sam`s vast exaggerations to promote his cause.

I know I can be a stroppy git and come across as confrontational (because I care , like many others , about this club a lot), but it really is not my intention in this case. I am just trying to illustrate how Sam has used Annis , Carl etc. to put out misinformation through this board to further his own agenda at times and the points in this post are a prime example. Please take my responses here to your reply in that spirit.

Sam got himself into more than a "bit of a pickle" over the business plan. It was a total disaster and described in several publicly available documents as being entirely deficient and unacceptable. The same records show that Sam was given every opportunity to improve the plan but was unable/unwilling to do so. It simply did not stack up financially.

Its true that Sam hardly did himself any favours with his political backing of Russell Goodway I have no personal preference between RG (who is a chartered accountant after all!!) and Rodney Berman , but I did take offence at SH abusing his position at CCFC to try and tell season ticket holders how to vote. Notwithstanding that , whoever is nominal head of the Council has no great say or influence over things like SH`s business plan. It was always reviewed and disapproved by senior Council officers who remained in place throughout the period and didn`t change with a change of party in charge. There were great problems with his business plan both before and after the elections you refer to.

PMG didn`t "inherit" the retail park project. They were asked to take over its management because Sam was getting nowhere in attracting enough tenants and the contribution from a fully let retail park was crucial to the overall funding required for the new stadium. Without their input , the project was dead in the water.
The claim that PMG didn`t put in their own cash is another of these myths that Sam has tried spreading through this board. The facts are that they put in £9m of their own cash and on top of that guaranteed a further loan of £2m from the Principality.
I agree with you that PMG were a major partner of Ridsdale in the plot to oust Sam from the club , which is why he has (perhaps understandably) such a grudge against them. He had to be removed for the club to move forward , but they could have done it in a far more open and pleasant way.
PM G did not buy £6m of land for £1.9m but bought £1.9m of land for that price (based on an independent professional valuation commissioned by the Council) and used about a half of the money to pay of a pressing club tax bill. The figures you quote are again misinformation put out by Sam (like the other inaccurate claim that PMG have been given other land) which I commented on ages ago when Annis was asked by Sam to put the same figures on this board.

The threat about being sued bit is because I am concerned Sam is using others to post claims that can be challenged legally so as to avoid being in the firing line himself. Carl was the recent example.

I note the players you list , but how many of those were brought to the club by Sam in his time or were already here and being developed , or how many were established pros. brought in by say Ridsdale as opposed to Sam? Even if you total the profit made on all those players , it still doesn`t come to anything like £20m (Chopra £3m , Gunter £1.2m ,Ledley £0 , Gabbidon and Collins combined £3m , Johnson £3M) but more like half that.Still a profit , but still one of Sam`s vast exaggerations to promote his cause.

Keith at the end of the day we are never going to agree because we come at this from different angles. Its apples and pears whether PMG 'inherited' or 'took over' the Retail Park project, the fact is they did to our detriment and to their overwhelming profit. Officially there might not have been political interference but 'unofficially', well we know things are not always as they seem.

I take on board your comments about Carl and Annis using this board to put out Sam's side of the story. Actually you are not far wrong, but I don't back Sam and have bitter feelings towards PMG because of this MB, that mind set was well in place well before Annis launched this MB in 2009 because of what happened when Ridsdale switched sides and then screwed this club to death.

As for the player sales I'll accept your figures but the fact is those players were cultivated under Sam plus there is the 'playing value' i.e. the service they gave to us whilst being Bluebirds (therefore Ledley would be worth more than £0)

Going slightly off I think the Supporters Trust have really connected with a lot of fans like myself over the rebrand. We want the Blue back but we want to do it by lobbying and co-operating with VT, rather than confrontation which is the way of Bluebirds Unite (unfortunately) seem to be heading. So in a rare spat of praise well done.

Exactly, on here and on the other message board thingy where most are under 10 or half dead - brain wise anyway.

The old school original message boarders are posting less and less but when they do you can tell the difference.

Why would anyone want to abuse Sam, is CCFC gone? did he instruct/instigate the re-brand? is he interfering with Malky (you know what I mean!). Basically no, he's a guy with monies who took us form the shit hole we were in, gave us success, gave us a platform, and then made numerous mistakes which could have been catastrophic. We are now in th ebest position we have been for donkeys years - and yet the numptys want to pick on one old man who basically rattles a few cages but has one thing you have to admire - he wnats success and he wants it for CCFC.

Now I agree I wouldn't let Sam anywhere near our finances, the bar till but if he's settled his beef with the club, Tan turns his debt into equity and we move on strnger, then the man has done the right thing (albeit a few years late) and we should move on.

Mind you if he paints those eye-brows blue you'll know where he stands on the re-brand but he's more lilkely to have one blue and one red

Summed that up brilliantly in my view arri potta.

Most of the comments that are attributed to Sam are at best supposition (he 'scammed' the club) or urban myths (threatened to put us into liquidation). You don't even have to scratch the surface to find out its all bollocks. The forensic accounts added up to nothing (pardon the pun) and the above quote originated from Peter Ridsdale (do I really need to explain further?)

There is even accepted view that Justice Briggs (from the Summary Hearing in 2008) referred to Sam Hammam as 'shady'. No such reference was ever made the closest comment was that if the case went to a full hearing then the actual members of 'Langston' would have to be identified; pretty obvious really as they were the ones suing the club.

I always take the view that if Sam hadn't woken us up in 2000 we would still be bobbing around the lower divisions and would never have played in FA Cup or League Cup Finals.

Yes he wanted his money back but as he wasn’t allowed to finish the job due the interference of local politicians and the business scheming and asset stripping of PMG so in that case I can absolute understand why.

Tony
Whilst I agree with you that the judge did not say anything about Sam being shady he certainly stated that in view of the evidence in front of him that if the case went to full trial in his opinion Sam and Langston would be found to be one and the same

I dont care what Sam has done in the past i find him funny as fuc especially with those brows /o\ <o> /o\