The Utopian Protest

I read a post on the other board and its very well put by alfie sherwood and he speaks the truth;

1) There is no perfect solution to the rebrand as Tan wants red
2) There needs to be a compromise
3) Tan wont give in and we're not happy so for people to be content we need a middle ground established

If a group was formed whereby the terms were with Tan;

1) You want red because you believe its more marketable in Asia and we're putting that trust in you
2) However, the badge is shit and is going to effect sales so work with us to create a new one
3) If we're always going to be red at home we want confirmation there will always be a blue kit per season released

Would you support it? To me the badge is the worst part of the rebrand. Not because its new but the lack of effort put into it. Its sort of like the Everton badge for me, a half assed attempt design made easy for Sports giant Nike, Puma and Adidas to put out to the market. Apparently the reason for Everton losing the motto was their kit manufacturer told the Everton board the design was hard to print, erroneous and had many issues with bad copies - money wasted in effect. - source: Fourth Official - an Everton fan

I wont protest a full on blue protest because its unrealistic, its putting the goal posts off the pitch and there is no possibility of scoring. We need to keep the target within range and be realistic with our goals. Now if the protest was a compromise protest I would happily join and put money into helping support it, it would then have a real purpose and I think many others may jump on board because its something they see as something that can happen.

If we are ever to get blue fully back we must chip away at the changes. I think the current situation is being overly optimistic. A protest should have a reachable goal but the current goal is unreachable. Tan said we'll always be red but he did not say 'We'll always keep the shit crayon drawn badge'.

Lets take heart from that and get a badge closer to what the fans want and is deemed acceptable and stop chasing the impossible dream.

Good point

Very good post that.

Top post and some realistic targets; unlike those that have (sort of) gone before

It speaks volumes that (to date) many of the most vehement and influential members of this and other MB's have kept a discreet distance from recent goings on with regards to anything that is unworkable, i.e. DEMANDING things from Vincent Tan that quite simply won't happen

This approach, however, might just have a chance of success; but only if organised properly and those who lead it are pragmatic in their approach

Great idea and I hope it gathers pace

I agree with what Alfie has written and as I said in my thread about meeting Vincent Tan, we as fans need to come to a compromise about the rebrand ourselves as VT will want red as home kit.

It's about how far we can get him to compromise on the blue.

I have maintained since day one that the badge is the worst part for me, my view is that if we had our original badge or at least a badge that we can identify with, then even though I won't buy he red 'home' kit, I would most definitely buy a blue one and possibly the 3rd kit and without a doubt I would buy other memorabilia including polo shirts and jackets etc.

Last season was the first time in years that I have not bought any merchandise from the club because of the badge.

I did purchase the 1987 Gilligan shirt though.

No.

Once you compromise and give in trying to get our blue colours back we will never get them back.

Just because losing the badge was the worst thing for you, losing the blue shirts AT HOME was the worst thing for many more of us.

Why should we give in?

We are The Bluebirds and should play in blue at home and we will keep on telling Mr Tan that excact same thing.

I'm sure I been saying something like this from early on, push him and he might even make it worse, talk to him, offer hima way out and make it appear that it's his idea.

No need for him to lose face, but he must realise he can turn from a man hated by a few hundred, into man loved by thousands and thousands.

no disrespect to anyone who has planned a march a meeting signed a petition, stopped going, stopped buying aanything, and has it achieved any change from Tan.

It may have given people an outlet for their frustration, but can anyone honestly see this approach getting us anywhere, it need a fresh approach, and I genuinely feel with the right approach we can get some leeway, even if it stage by stage, at least give us blue for away games to start.

Now people will be queuing up to slam me yet again for saying this, but carry on as you are if you think it's bringing any change or success, personally I think it just adds to his resolve that not that many people, and nowhere near the 25% he mentioned.

I'm sure I been saying something like this from early on, push him and he might even make it worse, talk to him, offer hima way out and make it appear that it's his idea.

No need for him to lose face, but he must realise he can turn from a man hated by a few hundred, into man loved by thousands and thousands.

no disrespect to anyone who has planned a march a meeting signed a petition, stopped going, stopped buying aanything, and has it achieved any change from Tan.

It may have given people an outlet for their frustration, but can anyone honestly see this approach getting us anywhere, it need a fresh approach, and I genuinely feel with the right approach we can get some leeway, even if it stage by stage, at least give us blue for away games to start.

Now people will be queuing up to slam me yet again for saying this, but carry on as you are if you think it's bringing any change or success, personally I think it just adds to his resolve that not that many people, and nowhere near the 25% he mentioned.

I agree. If only he would change us back to blue at home games he would be a hero instead of a villain.
Somebody explain it to him very soon if possible.

I read a post on the other board and its very well put by alfie sherwood and he speaks the truth;

1) There is no perfect solution to the rebrand as Tan wants red
2) There needs to be a compromise
3) Tan wont give in and we're not happy so for people to be content we need a middle ground established

If a group was formed whereby the terms were with Tan;

1) You want red because you believe its more marketable in Asia and we're putting that trust in you
2) However, the badge is shit and is going to effect sales so work with us to create a new one
3) If we're always going to be red at home we want confirmation there will always be a blue kit per season released

Would you support it? To me the badge is the worst part of the rebrand. Not because its new but the lack of effort put into it. Its sort of like the Everton badge for me, a half assed attempt design made easy for Sports giant Nike, Puma and Adidas to put out to the market. Apparently the reason for Everton losing the motto was their kit manufacturer told the Everton board the design was hard to print, erroneous and had many issues with bad copies - money wasted in effect. - source: Fourth Official - an Everton fan

I wont protest a full on blue protest because its unrealistic, its putting the goal posts off the pitch and there is no possibility of scoring. We need to keep the target within range and be realistic with our goals. Now if the protest was a compromise protest I would happily join and put money into helping support it, it would then have a real purpose and I think many others may jump on board because its something they see as something that can happen.

If we are ever to get blue fully back we must chip away at the changes. I think the current situation is being overly optimistic. A protest should have a reachable goal but the current goal is unreachable. Tan said we'll always be red but he did not say 'We'll always keep the shit crayon drawn badge'.

Lets take heart from that and get a badge closer to what the fans want and is deemed acceptable and stop chasing the impossible dream.

That's a long long way from what I wrote on CCMB.

My post was was titled 'When it comes to protests are we looking for utopia?'

and it was in direct response to criticism of yesterday's excellent get together organised by Sian Branson.

My post actually read:

Some fans didn't like the slogan (Against modern football)others felt it should all have been done a year ago,some felt that the numbers would be too small to make a difference,others thought it would descend into drunken carnage.

I'm afraid that the perfect return to blue (call it what you will) protest doesn't exist,because we all have a slightly different take on matters.

I've been guilty of picking holes in a couple of attempted protests too,but whether you are an ardent pro blue,a reluctant red or just a fan that would ideally like to see our traditional colours restored,let's bury our differences and stand shoulder to shoulder and join the next blue celebration/march and give it and it's organisers our full support.

Personally, I think we can forget compromises with Tan. It is all about keeping our fanbase blue,to persuade a new owner that although the club has being playing in red,the fanbase is united and solidly blue.

As for a new badge being a decent compromise,that would in no way suffice for me personally.

No.

Once you compromise and give in trying to get our blue colours back we will never get them back.

Just because losing the badge was the worst thing for you, losing the blue shirts AT HOME was the worst thing for many more of us.

Why should we give in?

We are The Bluebirds and should play in blue at home and we will keep on telling Mr Tan that excact same thing.

Don't worry mate. The op has completely and deliberately misinterpreted what I wrote.

My post on CCMB was aimed at uniting fans behind pro blue protests and not getting too hung up because of some small elements that don't fully resonate with us personally.

I'm sure I been saying something like this from early on, push him and he might even make it worse, talk to him, offer hima way out and make it appear that it's his idea.

To be fair you have. Its about time one of the 'fans groups' or the Trust took this approach. If nothing is done I shall be starting another group aiming for a compromise in August. I will be back in Aberystwyth then and I will set up the website myself, start polls and get fan reaction, free membership and so on.

The 'we want blue back' is not working and wont work. Tan wants red. They want blue. There needs to be a balance. I want, and im sure you do Gwyn, a group that can get us middle ground. Just sitting in the corner and crying our identity is gone or protesting for impossible goals is not going to work.

If anyone is in support of;

1) A red kit at home
2) A promise of an alternative blue kit every season for the fans who want to wear blue
3) A better designed badge done to a professional standard to increase sales and promotion

then I will quite happily make a website, get people on board and make it happen.

This would not be a group that would protest in the street. This would be a group that

1) Sent letters and engaged in professional dialogue with the club on the back of feedback on decision
2) Created polls on compromise badge designs and passed these on to the club and continue dialogue with the club
3) Ask for professional meetings with the club to exchange ideas
4) Ensure the club our aim is compromise and not to unsettle - to move forward as a unity on the same path

If people want this done then in August I will start it. It should be done properly and therefore not rushed. There is no point rushing this year to get something done - the badge has not been changed and the kit has been done for this year.

The aim for change should be the 2014/2015 season.

As for a new badge being a decent compromise,that would in no way suffice for me personally.

Well sorry alfie but you yourself are living in a dream world and I'd quite happily tell you in person that. You must get off your bluebird amongst the clouds and realise the position you as a Cardiff City fan find yourself in. If you think Tan is going to go from one extreme to the other because of protests then you are deluded. Its akin to thinking Hitler is going to wake up one morning with liberalist views. Its just not going to happen.

Aim for something more sensible, chip away at the cause and gain our identity back. A war is not won outright, it is won by winning many battles. Realise that.

As for a new badge being a decent compromise,that would in no way suffice for me personally.

Well sorry alfie but you yourself are living in a dream world and I'd quite happily tell you in person that. You must get off your bluebird amongst the clouds and realise the position you as a Cardiff City fan find yourself in. If you think Tan is going to go from one extreme to the other because of protests then you are deluded. Its akin to thinking Hitler is going to wake up one morning with liberalist views. Its just not going to happen.

Aim for something more sensible, chip away at the cause and gain our identity back. A war is not won outright, it is won by winning many battles. Realise that.

I don't think or expect Tan to compromise at all. It's about the long game.Sooner or later Tan will tire of the non compliance of the fan base (if we stick together) and sell up.

As for a new badge being a decent compromise,that would in no way suffice for me personally.

Well sorry alfie but you yourself are living in a dream world and I'd quite happily tell you in person that. You must get off your bluebird amongst the clouds and realise the position you as a Cardiff City fan find yourself in. If you think Tan is going to go from one extreme to the other because of protests then you are deluded. Its akin to thinking Hitler is going to wake up one morning with liberalist views. Its just not going to happen.

Aim for something more sensible, chip away at the cause and gain our identity back. A war is not won outright, it is won by winning many battles. Realise that.

I don't think or expect Tan to compromise at all. It's about the long game.Sooner or later Tan will tire of the non compliance of the fan base (if we stick together) and sell up.

Totally agree. I think we are in for a long protest.

To be fair you have. Its about time one of the 'fans groups' or the Trust took this approach. If nothing is done I shall be starting another group aiming for a compromise in August. I will be back in Aberystwyth then and I will set up the website myself, start polls and get fan reaction, free membership and so on.

The 'we want blue back' is not working and wont work. Tan wants red. They want blue. There needs to be a balance. I want, and im sure you do Gwyn, a group that can get us middle ground. Just sitting in the corner and crying our identity is gone or protesting for impossible goals is not going to work.

If anyone is in support of;

1) A red kit at home
2) A promise of an alternative blue kit every season for the fans who want to wear blue
3) A better designed badge done to a professional standard to increase sales and promotion

then I will quite happily make a website, get people on board and make it happen.

This would not be a group that would protest in the street. This would be a group that

1) Sent letters and engaged in professional dialogue with the club on the back of feedback on decision
2) Created polls on compromise badge designs and passed these on to the club and continue dialogue with the club
3) Ask for professional meetings with the club to exchange ideas
4) Ensure the club our aim is compromise and not to unsettle - to move forward as a unity on the same path

If people want this done then in August I will start it. It should be done properly and therefore not rushed. There is no point rushing this year to get something done - the badge has not been changed and the kit has been done for this year.

The aim for change should be the 2014/2015 season. [/quote]


No thanks!!
Points 1 & 2 - what a complete cop out!!
Our fans are not united and able to move on the same path while Tan has stolen our club's tradition for no reason.

I don't think or expect Tan to compromise at all. It's about the long game.Sooner or later Tan will tire of the non compliance of the fan base (if we stick together) and sell up.

You think Tan is going to tire of disgruntled customers? Wow, you really are naive. He's a businessman and he's used to seeing this shit every day. He probably sits at home alfie laughing at the people crying thinking they need to get real and see his vision.

This isn't about point scoring and this isn't politics. This is about what is best for the club and compromising. If you want blue back then go ahead and try and get Tan to change is mind but I'll tell you now it wont happen under Tan and the only way you will get blue back at home is;

1) Tan dies and his next of kim sells the club to an owner who restores our tradition
2) The club goes through after numerous relegations and Tan bails out

Tan isn't going anywhere now we're in the Premier League. He's not going to walk away from a fortune. Last season after investing £40m he might have cut his losses if the fans didn't want him as he made enough back from Facebook shares but the simple fact is now we are in the Premier League the money will be rolling in every season we stay here and as long as he manages it wisely he will benefit greatly from it.

There's more chance of you seeing and owning a unicorn than Tan returning us to blue just like that.

Totally agree. I think we are in for a long protest.

You don't win the war without winning many battles. You want it all at once. You need to conquer each stage of the rebranding one by one to get what you want. First get the badge, then plan from there. There is no substance to these protests and there is no defined plan of measures from a strategic point or marketing/business point. Deep down you know it too but you're allowing your emotional viewpoints rule your head.

Lets win the battles to win the war. Each stage of the rebrand needs to be broken down into battles. We need to win each battle and start winning the war of identity. Keep believing you're going to win the war against Tan just by shouting in the corner and holding up some signs - i think Tan got a bigger set of bollocks than that and is more stubborn in his beliefs than many give the billionaire businessmen credit for.

Tan is not going to learn about our identity over night and the reasons why it means so much to use. He needs to be educated to our level. He needs to see the real reasons but his education must come in stages, in classes and in a well thought out manner.

Carry on fighting the wrong war. Tan is sat on his throne laughing at you deploying all the wrong tactics.

Totally agree. I think we are in for a long protest.

You don't win the war without winning many battles. You want it all at once. You need to conquer each stage of the rebranding one by one to get what you want. First get the badge, then plan from there. There is no substance to these protests and there is no defined plan of measures from a strategic point or marketing/business point. Deep down you know it too but you're allowing your emotional viewpoints rule your head.

Lets win the battles to win the war. Each stage of the rebrand needs to be broken down into battles. We need to win each battle and start winning the war of identity. Keep believing you're going to win the war against Tan just by shouting in the corner and holding up some signs - i think Tan got a bigger set of bollocks than that and is more stubborn in his beliefs than many give the billionaire businessmen credit for.

Tan is not going to learn about our identity over night and the reasons why it means so much to use. He needs to be educated to our level. He needs to see the real reasons but his education must come in stages, in classes and in a well thought out manner.

Carry on fighting the wrong war. Tan is sat on his throne laughing at you deploying all the wrong tactics.

Can't knock you for trying a new approach mate. You keep it up and do what you think is best. One thing is for certain.....Tan is not listening yet to the people who are wholly or partly opposed to the rebrand. You should be commended for at least trying something new. We will see soon enough if VT is a man who is willing to compromise.

Agree. One step at a time.

Tan's no fool,i think he has been listening and taken note of what's being said regarding the rebranding.whether he changes back to blue,who knows,never say never imo.

Face it, Tan has had this club by the balls for a while now. He will have it his way. People are mentioning about talking to him and meeting him halfway. It's not meeting him halfway. It's getting 5% from the 95% on the table. He still gets everything he wants. We play in red for the majority of the season, we become a "red club" and he gets to keep the fans on side. You won't even get the badge you want. It will be a badge he will let you have.

He lost the chance to negotiate when he came in and disrespected the club, its traditions and us fans by changing the colour from blue to red without consultation in my opinion. I wonder if everyone would be acting like this if we were still in the Championship. It's amazing what people will turn a blind eye to when Premier League football is on offer. Tan now knows the price of many of our fans.

The red scarf debacle showed the integrity of many fans for what it really is anyway.

Totally agree. I think we are in for a long protest.

You don't win the war without winning many battles. You want it all at once. You need to conquer each stage of the rebranding one by one to get what you want. First get the badge, then plan from there. There is no substance to these protests and there is no defined plan of measures from a strategic point or marketing/business point. Deep down you know it too but you're allowing your emotional viewpoints rule your head.

Lets win the battles to win the war. Each stage of the rebrand needs to be broken down into battles. We need to win each battle and start winning the war of identity. Keep believing you're going to win the war against Tan just by shouting in the corner and holding up some signs - i think Tan got a bigger set of bollocks than that and is more stubborn in his beliefs than many give the billionaire businessmen credit for.

Tan is not going to learn about our identity over night and the reasons why it means so much to use. He needs to be educated to our level. He needs to see the real reasons but his education must come in stages, in classes and in a well thought out manner.

Carry on fighting the wrong war. Tan is sat on his throne laughing at you deploying all the wrong tactics.

Sounds all logical but history has proven that can turn out all bollocks.

You can win many battles but still lose the wall.

You fight fire with fire. Tan will not compromise so you say. In that case we should not compromise.

I don't go for this lets convince Tan to let us play in blue away. Come the following season he will just say you had your season playing blue away now we play away in what colour I want. However as I am a generous man I will make the 3rd kit blue. The following season the blue will go.

You see that's all in Tans control and that's where people like you are blind. However a strong protest organisation is different because that is out of Tans control. It can represent the blue and at least give it a long term presence. We should demand a return to blue at home and not budge from that. We might, we might not get it but one thing is for sure we will lose the blue if we just do it bit by bit as you suggest.

Face it, Tan has had this club by the balls for a while now. He will have it his way. People are mentioning about talking to him and meeting him halfway. It's not meeting him halfway. It's getting 5% from the 95% on the table. He still gets everything he wants. We play in red for the majority of the season, we become a "red club" and he gets to keep the fans on side. You won't even get the badge you want. It will be a badge he will let you have.

He lost the chance to negotiate when he came in and disrespected the club, its traditions and us fans by changing the colour from blue to red without consultation in my opinion. I wonder if everyone would be acting like this if we were still in the Championship. It's amazing what people will turn a blind eye to when Premier League football is on offer. Tan now knows the price of many of our fans.

The red scarf debacle showed the integrity of many fans for what it really is anyway.

This ^^^^

Totally agree. I think we are in for a long protest.

You don't win the war without winning many battles. You want it all at once. You need to conquer each stage of the rebranding one by one to get what you want. First get the badge, then plan from there. There is no substance to these protests and there is no defined plan of measures from a strategic point or marketing/business point. Deep down you know it too but you're allowing your emotional viewpoints rule your head.

Lets win the battles to win the war. Each stage of the rebrand needs to be broken down into battles. We need to win each battle and start winning the war of identity. Keep believing you're going to win the war against Tan just by shouting in the corner and holding up some signs - i think Tan got a bigger set of bollocks than that and is more stubborn in his beliefs than many give the billionaire businessmen credit for.

Tan is not going to learn about our identity over night and the reasons why it means so much to use. He needs to be educated to our level. He needs to see the real reasons but his education must come in stages, in classes and in a well thought out manner.

Carry on fighting the wrong war. Tan is sat on his throne laughing at you deploying all the wrong tactics.

Sounds all logical but history has proven that can turn out all bollocks.

You can win many battles but still lose the wall.

You fight fire with fire. Tan will not compromise so you say. In that case we should not compromise.

I don't go for this lets convince Tan to let us play in blue away. Come the following season he will just say you had your season playing blue away now we play away in what colour I want. However as I am a generous man I will make the 3rd kit blue. The following season the blue will go.

You see that's all in Tans control and that's where people like you are blind. However a strong protest organisation is different because that is out of Tans control. It can represent the blue and at least give it a long term presence. We should demand a return to blue at home and not budge from that. We might, we might not get it but one thing is for sure we will lose the blue if we just do it bit by bit as you suggest.

Good post.

I still can't believe the op twisted my post on Mikes board to suit his own ends but then again he is a WUM,so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.

Face it, Tan has had this club by the balls for a while now. He will have it his way. People are mentioning about talking to him and meeting him halfway. It's not meeting him halfway. It's getting 5% from the 95% on the table. He still gets everything he wants. We play in red for the majority of the season, we become a "red club" and he gets to keep the fans on side. You won't even get the badge you want. It will be a badge he will let you have.

He lost the chance to negotiate when he came in and disrespected the club, its traditions and us fans by changing the colour from blue to red without consultation in my opinion. I wonder if everyone would be acting like this if we were still in the Championship. It's amazing what people will turn a blind eye to when Premier League football is on offer. Tan now knows the price of many of our fans.

The red scarf debacle showed the integrity of many fans for what it really is anyway.

This ^^^

Spot on Zabier

Tan will not budge at all after Sunday.

The fact only 200-300 people turned out on a bright sunny bank holiday to a protest that had been advertised for a few months in papers and radio has given Tan all the market research he needed. Only 1% of CCS capacity care enough to actually try and do something. He said himself he was prepared for 25% to be unhappy.

Like i feared, I believe Sunday did more harm than good. If a protest doesnt number in the 1000's then its pointless. Not knocking those that organised it as they did a good job. Its our own fault.

I think we'll get the thousands in blue at the home games,and over time who knows what will happen.

If the aim ofsome is to drive VT from the club over blue be careful what you wish for.

So far he has delivered on his promises, is still looking to invest in infrastructure and take us forward. You drive him away there will be a lot of disgruntled fans.

If the rebrand is too much, which i appreciate may be the case for some, then creation of a fan owned AFC Cardiff may be the way forward for you to get enjoyment back from football.

As it stands i draw a parallel with people who continue eating eggs when allergic to eggs. Eggs is eggs so try something different.

Although it's a decent idea, I won't support anything which suggests accepting the red.

The easiest and the most effective protest is to wear blue at all games and to sing 'blue' songs.

Although it's a decent idea, I won't support anything which suggests accepting the red.

The easiest and the most effective protest is to wear blue at all games and to sing 'blue' songs.

Is that supporting team tho?? Prior to rebrand we all complained of atmosphere, would we better just supporting the team with no reference to red or blue??