Can Welsh clubs eclipse the Old Firm?

Video on link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/22511957?

BBC Scotland's Alasdair Lamont looks at what the rise of Cardiff City, managed by Scot Malky Mackay, to the English Premier League means for the Old Firm.

Interesting point, and a good question

No.

Haven't seen clip, But i am inclined to say NO.

No.

This raises the spectre of Gwyns "Potential" question.

Obviously Cardiff and Swansea will never command the followings that the Old Firm do, but crowds are just a minor part of income. Our TV income dwarves theirs and on the back of that so will potential advertising incomes.

If the sports is now just about money, then we have the potential.

As an aside how do the Old Firm have a worldwide following? It cannot be for the love of the football they play, obviously historical and about more than just the sport.

Just a propaganda piece on behalf of the Old Firm, they grumbled when we got promoted as well, along the lines of "Well they're not English and yet they're in the premier league, we should be too..."

Without a single clue about how long we have actually played in the English pyramid. I didn't think it would take long after you being promoted before it reared its head again.

Bollocks to the Old Firm

This question of potential irritates me. EVERY CLUB has potential to be bigger than the other, whose to say that Barnet won't be in the premier league next season? Just as unlikely as it was for both Welsh clubs to be there back then. We can be the biggest in the world one day, no doubt but so could any club. We have a massive catchment area but so do Plymouth, Carlisle, Swansea and Hull.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Seemingly they don't. It's incredible to think that we have spent 50 odd years out of the top division but as soon as we change colours and before we have even kicked a ball in the premier league some of our fans think we are bigger than the likes of Celtic, Rangers and Everton!

Embarrassing to read, we are a small club and I am proud of that.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Seemingly they don't. It's incredible to think that we have spent 50 odd years out of the top division but as soon as we change colours and before we have even kicked a ball in the premier league some of our fans think we are bigger than the likes of Celtic, Rangers and Everton!

Embarrassing to read, we are a small club and I am proud of that.

I fully agree Old Man and I bet the same people dont even know about the religous aspect of these two teams which makes them even more popular with non-football fans across the world!!

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Yet they've spent half the season playing at a third empty stadiums according to figures recently released by Strathclyde Police.

Or plastics as they are commonly referred to.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Yet they've spent half the season playing at a third empty stadiums according to figures recently released by Strathclyde Police.

Or plastics as they are commonly referred to.

Whatever people want to call then is neither here or there but its the numbers of them worldwide Im taking about.

No! The south Wales derby will never be as big as the merseyside, manchester and north london derbys either.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Give people credit for being fully aware the Old Firm are when you talk about bums on seats and worldwide support. The article in question asks the question about income as well as fan base.

According to Deloittes Celtic are in the top 20 of match day generating clubs, but this is eclipsed by the TV revenue afforded to EPL teams. With a proper TV deal the Old firm would be massive even amongst the likes of Manu U, but their league lets them down, hence the article and them coveting the EPL.

As I said previously gone are the days of measuring a clubs size based on fans. it's how it should be but football has been taken over by money men.

Can Welsh clubs eclipse the Old Firm?.......................No.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Yet they've spent half the season playing at a third empty stadiums according to figures recently released by Strathclyde Police.

Or plastics as they are commonly referred to.

Whatever people want to call then is neither here or there but its the numbers of them worldwide Im taking about.

How many ? if its 100s, 1000s 100,000s or 1,000,000s that don't give them the right to play in our league just because they got loads of Jocks worldwide.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Give people credit for being fully aware the Old Firm are when you talk about bums on seats and worldwide support. The article in question asks the question about income as well as fan base.

According to Deloittes Celtic are in the top 20 of match day generating clubs, but this is eclipsed by the TV revenue afforded to EPL teams. With a proper TV deal the Old firm would be massive even amongst the likes of Manu U, but their league lets them down, hence the article and them coveting the EPL.

As I said previously gone are the days of measuring a clubs size based on fans. it's how it should be but football has been taken over by money men.

what absolute bollox. So what you are saying more or less is that every premier league team is bigger than the old firm because of the income from the TV rights or on how much their owner has so even the likes of Wigan are bigger than the old firm then!!!!

what the Old man said is true some of the comments from some who think we are bigger than other more historical clubs in football is embarrassing!!!

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Yet they've spent half the season playing at a third empty stadiums according to figures recently released by Strathclyde Police.

Or plastics as they are commonly referred to.

Whatever people want to call then is neither here or there but its the numbers of them worldwide Im taking about.

How many ? if its 100s, 1000s 100,000s or 1,000,000s that don't give them the right to play in our league just because they got loads of Jocks worldwide.

where have i ever said that they have the right ? Also if you knew anything about the old firm you wouldn't call them 'jocks' rather Irish or British!!!!

Not in our lifetime

Even if all the plastic taffs around the world jumped on the Cardiff swansea bandwagon, wed still come up short! Celtic and rangers fans are like rats... Your never more than a few metres away from one.. Especially celtic.

Even if all the plastic taffs around the world jumped on the Cardiff swansea bandwagon, wed still come up short! Celtic and rangers fans are like rats... Your never more than a few metres away from one.. Especially celtic.

But do they turn that fanaticism into income for the club? Which is the crux of the report

People talk about 200,000 Scottish fans descending on locations for cup games, this is phenomenal but it only equates to pounds for local pubs and clubs, what do the football club get?

Of course we are or will never be bigger than the Old Firm, but unfortunately today, in football, money talks.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Give people credit for being fully aware the Old Firm are when you talk about bums on seats and worldwide support. The article in question asks the question about income as well as fan base.

According to Deloittes Celtic are in the top 20 of match day generating clubs, but this is eclipsed by the TV revenue afforded to EPL teams. With a proper TV deal the Old firm would be massive even amongst the likes of Manu U, but their league lets them down, hence the article and them coveting the EPL.

As I said previously gone are the days of measuring a clubs size based on fans. it's how it should be but football has been taken over by money men.

what absolute bollox. So what you are saying more or less is that every premier league team is bigger than the old firm because of the income from the TV rights or on how much their owner has so even the likes of Wigan are bigger than the old firm then!!!!

what the Old man said is true some of the comments from some who think we are bigger than other more historical clubs in football is embarrassing!!!

No need for the abuse mate, it's not my fault you did not understand what the interview was talking about or what I am trying to convey.

I NEVER mentioned anything about the wealth of the owners, I am talking about income. It's not a black and white question because old school see size, as fans, history and success, but modern football seems to be all about income.

Football is a unique business. Supermarkets are easily ranked, more customers mean more spending mean more income. simple. More customers in football does not mean bigger club, there is more influence from the product and the EPL product eclipses anything the SPL could ever hope for. Why else is their always talk of their inclusion in the EPL.

Are they bigger than us ....... Yes, will they always be bigger than us ....... Yes, but money streams should not be ignored and this is why the article came about.

Us and swansea can eclipse the old firm financially. We also can attract better players with us being in the PL. Although they still have a really good pull with their only saving grace that is the Champions League.

As far as attendances go we will do well to ever get near the old firm. Rangers were the 5th best supported team in the UK and that was playing in the 3rd division in Scotland which is frightening.

I suppose it all comes down to what your perception of a big club is. Personally I dont believe we are any where near half as big as Rangers & Celtic.

They are more than just a football club representing Scotland, Glasgow the city and the surrounding areas. They are institutions & its so much more deep rooted than that. You could write an essay on it and not even scratch the surface

They have support in every city/town/village in Scotland. They have a huge following in Ireland & N.Ireland. Plus then all the expats living worldwide.

They are also so desperate to leave scottish football because at the moment they are two really big sharks in a tiny paddling pool. Watching with envy at teams like us getting in one season what it would take them 4 or 5 at least.

Us and swansea can eclipse the old firm financially. We also can attract better players with us being in the PL. Although they still have a really good pull with their only saving grace that is the Champions League.

As far as attendances go we will do well to ever get near the old firm. Rangers were the 5th best supported team in the UK and that was playing in the 3rd division in Scotland which is frightening.

I suppose it all comes down to what your perception of a big club is. Personally I dont believe we are any where near half as big as Rangers & Celtic.

They are more than just a football club representing Scotland, Glasgow the city and the surrounding areas. They are institutions & its so much more deep rooted than that. You could write an essay on it and not even scratch the surface

They have support in every city/town/village in Scotland. They have a huge following in Ireland & N.Ireland. Plus then all the expats living worldwide.

They are also so desperate to leave scottish football because at the moment they are two really big sharks in a tiny paddling pool. Watching with envy at teams like us getting in one season what it would take them 4 or 5 at least.

You have hit the nail, squarely, on the head.

Do people realise just how many supporters world wide these two clubs actually have..?

Give people credit for being fully aware the Old Firm are when you talk about bums on seats and worldwide support. The article in question asks the question about income as well as fan base.

According to Deloittes Celtic are in the top 20 of match day generating clubs, but this is eclipsed by the TV revenue afforded to EPL teams. With a proper TV deal the Old firm would be massive even amongst the likes of Manu U, but their league lets them down, hence the article and them coveting the EPL.

As I said previously gone are the days of measuring a clubs size based on fans. it's how it should be but football has been taken over by money men.

what absolute bollox. So what you are saying more or less is that every premier league team is bigger than the old firm because of the income from the TV rights or on how much their owner has so even the likes of Wigan are bigger than the old firm then!!!!

what the Old man said is true some of the comments from some who think we are bigger than other more historical clubs in football is embarrassing!!!

No need for the abuse mate, it's not my fault you did not understand what the interview was talking about or what I am trying to convey.

I NEVER mentioned anything about the wealth of the owners, I am talking about income. It's not a black and white question because old school see size, as fans, history and success, but modern football seems to be all about income.

Football is a unique business. Supermarkets are easily ranked, more customers mean more spending mean more income. simple. More customers in football does not mean bigger club, there is more influence from the product and the EPL product eclipses anything the SPL could ever hope for. Why else is their always talk of their inclusion in the EPL.

Are they bigger than us ....... Yes, will they always be bigger than us ....... Yes, but money streams should not be ignored and this is why the article came about.

It is your mindset which I think is frightening especially now that you seem to be backtracking. You clearly stated that 'football has been taken over by money men' yet now you saying that you 'NEVER' mentioned anything about the wealth of the owners!!! FFS you couldn't make it up!!!