I THINK VT WILL CHANGE THINGS AROUND

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.[/quote]

^^^^^^^
THIS.

First a Carl scenario with no foundation, now a Gwyn scenario with no foundation.........

No foundation my arse. Something's on the horizon.

I think an awful lot of city fans would have been happier with some form of a fans/club compromise, & some input into the rebrand. At the end of the day its all about the colour & badge. I hope common sense prevails,,,,soon!

The thing is if VT had done all this with out the red/beer mat badge then he would have been loved with legend status by fans even more if he converts debt to equity if we had stayed the same, although a deal should be done soon with sam, i do think Tans more in to the club than he was 12months ago and maybe looking at it from a fans point of view now, what the future holds who knows

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

You provided no evidence for this feeling, i get a feeling every week that i'll win the lottery but guess what? I think that now is the time to force his hand, if it's going to go tits up, now is the time for it to do so. obviously langston would be out of pocket as would Tan, but the club would have clear books and it's humility restored.

The idea of giving Tan a way out without losing face is the only way.

However if anyone can come up with a way where we return to blue and regain our full identity then good luck because that is what is required. The idea of playing blue away is pointless and simple not good enough.

Shame VT never consulted with the fans in the beginning instead of doing his own thing because if the fans had a say then things would have been totally different. To get to that stage now Tan needs to totally backtrack then perhaps we can go forward.

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.

Yes they are side by side in the stadium but how often does our team wear blue?

When I say side by side, I would like to see the players wear blue at every chance they get away, cup matches etc.
We may have kids coming through at this rate who will be totally confused and never get chance to see blue, if we build on the front that the fans share blue and red in the ground, then why not the team when the chance arises, if he can see there is no threat or pressure then I think it will be easier to switch back first chance.

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.

Yes they are side by side in the stadium but how often does our team wear blue?

When I say side by side, I would like to see the players wear blue at every chance they get away, cup matches etc.
[color=#0000FF]We may have kids coming through at this rate who will be totally confused and never get chance to see blue, if we build on the front that the fans share blue and red in the ground, then why not the team when the chance arises, if he can see there is no threat or pressure then I think it will be easier to switch back first chance.[/color]

Then going on that we should be demonstration to play in blue at home because that is where most of the new kids will see the city play.

The idea of giving Tan a way out without losing face is the only way.

However if anyone can come up with a way where we return to blue and regain our full identity then good luck because that is what is required. The idea of playing blue away is pointless and simple not good enough.

Shame VT never consulted with the fans in the beginning instead of doing his own thing because if the fans had a say then things would have been totally different. To get to that stage now Tan needs to totally backtrack then perhaps we can go forward.

Fans are slowly realising that football without community is a very empty experience, we will never accept this brainwashing, We are Cardiff, our hardcore have a bit more about them than that.

The idea of giving Tan a way out without losing face is the only way.

However if anyone can come up with a way where we return to blue and regain our full identity then good luck because that is what is required. The idea of playing blue away is pointless and simple not good enough.

Shame VT never consulted with the fans in the beginning instead of doing his own thing because if the fans had a say then things would have been totally different. To get to that stage now Tan needs to totally backtrack then perhaps we can go forward.

Fans are slowly realising that football without community is a very empty experience, we will never accept this brainwashing, We are Cardiff, our hardcore have a bit more about them than that.

I hope you are right because I'm not confident in that.

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.

Yes they are side by side in the stadium but how often does our team wear blue?

When I say side by side, I would like to see the players wear blue at every chance they get away, cup matches etc.
[color=#0000FF]We may have kids coming through at this rate who will be totally confused and never get chance to see blue, if we build on the front that the fans share blue and red in the ground, then why not the team when the chance arises, if he can see there is no threat or pressure then I think it will be easier to switch back first chance.[/color]

Then going on that we should be demonstration to play in blue at home because that is where most of the new kids will see the city play.

Do you still think demonstrating is going to help There are cup games and I think rules in place to allow the occasional kit change for home games.

Have heard nothing, and no substance to this feeling, just have a gut feeling from seeing him in action at the presentation and among the fans and families at the academy games.

I think he may be regretting his decision to rebrand us, but he must be given a way out of admitting the mistake to save face and there in lies the problem as I see it.

He's not the sort of man to back down, but if it can be done in such a way as it's his idea or his way of rewarding the fans etc. then I feel it may have some legs.

This is why I think the way to set about this is for the supporters groups to have a cosy chat and come to some plan rather than try and force his hand, again I repeat, why not get blue and red side by side, that way for our first season in the Prem, we may catch the eye and appeal to the far East for support, investment and advertising etc. and hopefully if it works we can drop in a change back to blue the season after and they may not notice over there as much as we have over here, just a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

I genuinely believe he wants to be loved and feel part of things down here and knows he needs to do this, so let us help him do it, rather than try and force him to do it.

BLUEBIRDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I don't really get what you mean? Aren't blue and red already side by side? As it stands, anyone who wants to wear red is already doing so, those that aren't are not interested and in my opinion will never be interested in buying red merchandise or wearing red, that's the way forward. I have nothing against anyone who wears red or for that matter blue. Everyone, including yourself now seems to be of the opinion, that the rebrand has nothing to do with marketing but is just VT changing it for his own reasons like lucky colour, superstition etc if that's the case and there's no logical reason then I hope he has a change of heart at some point, which may come the more ingrained he becomes with the club, it's culture and its supporters. I like many others I assume will just go on supporting the team and show no disrespect to VT and his decision but neither do anything actively to encourage or support the rebrand.

Yes they are side by side in the stadium but how often does our team wear blue?

When I say side by side, I would like to see the players wear blue at every chance they get away, cup matches etc.
[color=#0000FF]We may have kids coming through at this rate who will be totally confused and never get chance to see blue, if we build on the front that the fans share blue and red in the ground, then why not the team when the chance arises, if he can see there is no threat or pressure then I think it will be easier to switch back first chance.[/color]

Then going on that we should be demonstration to play in blue at home because that is where most of the new kids will see the city play.

Do you still think demonstrating is going to help There are cup games and I think rules in place to allow the occasional kit change for home games.

Yes domonstration is a key componement in engineering social change throughout history.

Yes I do think we should demonstrate that we should be playing in blue at home. How we demonstrate that is another question.

Using the rule of playing blue once at home etc etc is pointless and will eventually see the demise of ever playing blue again at CCS or what ever it will be called in the future.

So what you saying Gwyn? You think there could be a kit compromise with red and blue or?

The way out of the red for VT is simple. Change back to blue now, and it would be the biggest marketing ploy football had ever seen. We are being talked about throughout the whole world. I have always fealt that may be the case. Going back blue now, would have everyone talking again, and many getting in board as they have already grown a passion for wanting us in blue. He could be cleverer than we think...

VT isn't interested in being loved.....he's a shrewd businessman.

There is no sentimentality involved in any of this. He calls the shots and in his business world what he has set out to do he has achieved. There ends the converstaion really.

To be honest I don't agree with certain supporters meeting him....if it's a club representative that's fine but why is it the same old faces? We can say players, managers and owners do it for personal gain but what about fans "representatives" how come it's the same "old guard?" I've no axe to grind with anyone but how about a few new faces? Does the CCSC put forward anyone new? Does the Trust? Do the MB owners? Surely if we have a few new faces then new ideas might come to the fore.

If VT believes a change back to blue would generate a lot more revenue then I believe he would change. Just because a few fans who inhabit mb's disagree with him that doesn't prove it would make business sense.

Players and managers are judged on results. Owners are judged on business results....... something that very few of us have no idea of at this level. Sentiment does not keep big business alive.

VT isn't interested in being loved.....he's a shrewd businessman.

There is no sentimentality involved in any of this. He calls the shots and in his business world what he has set out to do he has achieved. There ends the converstaion really.

To be honest I don't agree with certain supporters meeting him....if it's a club representative that's fine but why is it the same old faces? We can say players, managers and owners do it for personal gain but what about fans "representatives" how come it's the same "old guard?" I've no axe to grind with anyone but how about a few new faces? Does the CCSC put forward anyone new? Does the Trust? Do the MB owners? Surely if we have a few new faces then new ideas might come to the fore.

If VT believes a change back to blue would generate a lot more revenue then I believe he would change. Just because a few fans who inhabit mb's disagree with him that doesn't prove it would make business sense.

Players and managers are judged on results. Owners are judged on business results....... something that very few of us have no idea of at this level. Sentiment does not keep big business alive.

The way out of the red for VT is simple. Change back to blue now, and it would be the biggest marketing ploy football had ever seen. We are being talked about throughout the whole world. I have always fealt that may be the case. Going back blue now, would have everyone talking again, and many getting in board as they have already grown a passion for wanting us in blue. He could be cleverer than we think...

wishful thinking im afraid , while Tan hear we will wear red at home

he can have red kit but i want our old badge back.

So what you saying Gwyn? You think there could be a kit compromise with red and blue or?

I think initially it would be good to get a commitment to use blue as a kit as often as possible, away games especially, and possibly work to a compromise kit of red and blue or hopefully all blue.

If he did a u-turn, he'd be a LEGEND

VT isn't interested in being loved.....he's a shrewd businessman.

Initially I totally agreed with you, but i do hear and see for myself a softening of that view.

There is no sentimentality involved in any of this. He calls the shots and in his business world what he has set out to do he has achieved. There ends the converstaion really.

To be honest I don't agree with certain supporters meeting him....if it's a club representative that's fine but why is it the same old faces? We can say players, managers and owners do it for personal gain but what about fans "representatives" how come it's the same "old guard?" I've no axe to grind with anyone but how about a few new faces? Does the CCSC put forward anyone new? Does the Trust? Do the MB owners? Surely if we have a few new faces then new ideas might come to the fore.

Don't understand what your getting at "a club Representative?" the CCSC and the Trust have democratically appointed officers, these can and do change periodically ate AGM's etc. how are you suggesting the club appoint people without rocking the boat so to speak?

If VT believes a change back to blue would generate a lot more revenue then I believe he would change. Just because a few fans who inhabit mb's disagree with him that doesn't prove it would make business sense.

Players and managers are judged on results. Owners are judged on business results....... something that very few of us have no idea of at this level. Sentiment does not keep big business alive.

Agree with a fair bit of that, but I think he's been drawn into it on more than just a business front now.

he can have red kit but i want our old badge back.

Let's get the blue back first, then you can set up a new protest group for the badge.
There must be a few new names or titles for a protest group that haven't been used yet.

Gwyn why don't you give it a rest for a few weeks your starting to sound like scratched record FFS

A good start would be to play in blue at all away games, like recently at Watford and Hull. Then switch the primary colours back. Blue home, red away. And make the bluebird a lot more prominent on the badge. Like Gwyn said, give VT an exit strategy.

VT isn't interested in being loved.....he's a shrewd businessman.

Initially I totally agreed with you, but i do hear and see for myself a softening of that view.

There is no sentimentality involved in any of this. He calls the shots and in his business world what he has set out to do he has achieved. There ends the converstaion really.

To be honest I don't agree with certain supporters meeting him....if it's a club representative that's fine but why is it the same old faces? We can say players, managers and owners do it for personal gain but what about fans "representatives" how come it's the same "old guard?" I've no axe to grind with anyone but how about a few new faces? Does the CCSC put forward anyone new? Does the Trust? Do the MB owners? Surely if we have a few new faces then new ideas might come to the fore.

Don't understand what your getting at "a club Representative?" the CCSC and the Trust have democratically appointed officers, these can and do change periodically ate AGM's etc. how are you suggesting the club appoint people without rocking the boat so to speak?

If VT believes a change back to blue would generate a lot more revenue then I believe he would change. Just because a few fans who inhabit mb's disagree with him that doesn't prove it would make business sense.

Players and managers are judged on results. Owners are judged on business results....... something that very few of us have no idea of at this level. Sentiment does not keep big business alive.

Agree with a fair bit of that, but I think he's been drawn into it on more than just a business front now.

OK youhave CCSC and the trust are elected but they are singing from the same hymn sheet. Same with mb's ......particularly the other board but in reality how many do they represent...........5%?

The vast majority of fans are quite happy with the situation as I am. Yes of course I'd like to see us in blue but is it the most important thing to me? (definitely not)

I want a winning team.....that's the most important thing to me by far. It's a competitive sport and being competitive is all about winning.

I dont go in for this nostalgia, community shite........ where was this spirit years ago?

VT isn't interested in being loved.....he's a shrewd businessman.

Initially I totally agreed with you, but i do hear and see for myself a softening of that view.

There is no sentimentality involved in any of this. He calls the shots and in his business world what he has set out to do he has achieved. There ends the converstaion really.

To be honest I don't agree with certain supporters meeting him....if it's a club representative that's fine but why is it the same old faces? We can say players, managers and owners do it for personal gain but what about fans "representatives" how come it's the same "old guard?" I've no axe to grind with anyone but how about a few new faces? Does the CCSC put forward anyone new? Does the Trust? Do the MB owners? Surely if we have a few new faces then new ideas might come to the fore.

Don't understand what your getting at "a club Representative?" the CCSC and the Trust have democratically appointed officers, these can and do change periodically ate AGM's etc. how are you suggesting the club appoint people without rocking the boat so to speak?

If VT believes a change back to blue would generate a lot more revenue then I believe he would change. Just because a few fans who inhabit mb's disagree with him that doesn't prove it would make business sense.

Players and managers are judged on results. Owners are judged on business results....... something that very few of us have no idea of at this level. Sentiment does not keep big business alive.

Agree with a fair bit of that, but I think he's been drawn into it on more than just a business front now.

OK youhave CCSC and the trust are elected but they are singing from the same hymn sheet. Same with mb's ......particularly the other board but in reality how many do they represent...........5%?

The vast majority of fans are quite happy with the situation as I am. Yes of course I'd like to see us in blue but is it the most important thing to me? (definitely not)

I want a winning team.....that's the most important thing to me by far. It's a competitive sport and being competitive is all about winning.

I dont go in for this nostalgia, community shite........ where was this spirit years ago?

I feel sad that a winning team means more to you than a credible identity with meaning.

So what you saying Gwyn? You think there could be a kit compromise with red and blue or?

I think initially it would be good to get a commitment to use blue as a kit as often as possible, away games especially, and possibly work to a compromise kit of red and blue or hopefully all blue.

How do you think we should go about it Gwyn ? it's clear to see that the majority want us back in Blue, with a real organised, respected group of fans coming together and making a go of it, then I think that's our best bet of achieving what we want.