Is promotion deemed as success?

I have just read with interest the "47 years" read where the OP feels he's about to dawn on success after waiting 47 years and doesn't want anyone spoiling it for him by bringing up the rebrand etc...

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you think Liverpool would get rid of their red kit, their liver bird and heap more debt on themselves to an almost critical level just to compete in the top 4 again? No.

Getting promotion to the premier league is something the likes of Blackpool and Burnley have done in recent times. In their case it was a success as although their stay was short, they spent little to get there and e reward by far outweighed the cost to get there.

It's very difficult to weigh up what success would be seen as if the cost is to trade in the clubs colours, nickname, badge, identity, £100m debt and rising but would almost certainly not be seen as a fair trade to have one season in the top flight. As it stands we do not have the players or the finances to keep a place in the premiership, we are losing money right left and Center and we are an unsustainable club, this is indisputable.

Surely success would be top half of the Prem and competing in Europe. Otherwise I'm not sure how anyone can think spending £100m of someone else's money and trading in our clubs identity is worth promotion alone.

Just a thought.

It is success if you get to the prem, ask any of the players that have done it, ask any club that has ever done it

Do you think Liverpool would get rid of their red kit, their liver bird and heap more debt on themselves to an almost critical level just to compete in the top 4 again? No.

The same Liverpool that almost put itself out of existence trying to chase the dream. Liverpool were saved by the fact they have a history. The same Liverpool who's owners have plastered Warrior everywhere, have set them up a cheesy and lame TV show in the USA and the same Liverpool who's owners are 'looking into the idea of renaming the bastion of history that is Anfield'. Yes, you're 100% correct.

Getting promotion to the premier league is something the likes of Blackpool and Burnley have done in recent times. In their case it was a success as although their stay was short, they spent little to get there and e reward by far outweighed the cost to get there.

It was successful for them but they never ever gave themselves a chance of staying up. They didn't commit, make changes or do anything of that calibre. They knew they were coming back down and kept things as they were. Sorry, you can't use lack of willing to progress to combat a desperation for success. There needs to be middle ground or you'll never move forward.

It's very difficult to weigh up what success would be seen as if the cost is to trade in the clubs colours, nickname, badge, identity, £100m debt and rising but would almost certainly not be seen as a fair trade to have one season in the top flight. As it stands we do not have the players or the finances to keep a place in the premiership, we are losing money right left and Center and we are an unsustainable club, this is indisputable.

Could have said the same about Swansea when they were in the Championship yet a few shrewd business moves and they became a side more than capable of staying up. Write us off at your peril and anyone else can for that matter. I know if we stay up the excuses will come out then. 'You only stayed up because of a Malaysian bankrolling you and because you sold your history'. Dont worry pal, im prepared for all the absolute BS other fans will spout to try to get under us but sod them all. Portsmouth, Rangers, etc. would have traded in far more to switch places with us. They can say they wouldn't now but they would have.

Surely success would be top half of the Prem and competing in Europe. Otherwise I'm not sure how anyone can think spending £100m of someone else's money and trading in our clubs identity is worth promotion alone.

Just a thought.

[/quote]

Success is subjective depending on what the person quantifying success believes the limits are. As a Championship side currently, success is promotion. As a newly promoted team, success is survival. As a promoted team that has survived, success is establishing yourself as a mid table team. One step at a time will do me just fine thanks. Swansea have overachieved and fair do's to them because they've played some teams off the park at times but then QPR have been the other extreme. Spending works, spending fails, not investing works, not investing fails. It depends entirely on the choices made.

Last edited by All Black Everything. on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

It is success if you get to the prem, ask any of the players that have done it, ask any club that has ever done it

There is no other club that have had to sacrifice so much for it as Cardiff City so asking someone else is pointless, there is no one else. You don't seem to understand what my post entailed.

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you mean relative?

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

Promotion from the Championship and winning the English title are vastly different. I'd say it's a fair trade off as the success has been continued and extensive, winning titles, champions leagues and domestic trophies. This can be deemed as a success as what they have had to sacrifice is little compared to what they have gained.

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you mean relative?

Yep

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you mean relative?

Yep

So you say that success is relative, but then decide what success is in our current position. Wouldn't it be fairer to say that you don't believe this represents success but clearly others do?

Otherwise your point doesn't make sense, you either think it's relative or you dont.

I have just read with interest the "47 years" read where the OP feels he's about to dawn on success after waiting 47 years and doesn't want anyone spoiling it for him by bringing up the rebrand etc...

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you think Liverpool would get rid of their red kit, their liver bird and heap more debt on themselves to an almost critical level just to compete in the top 4 again? No.

Getting promotion to the premier league is something the likes of Blackpool and Burnley have done in recent times. In their case it was a success as although their stay was short, they spent little to get there and e reward by far outweighed the cost to get there.

It's very difficult to weigh up what success would be seen as if the cost is to trade in the clubs colours, nickname, badge, identity, £100m debt and rising but would almost certainly not be seen as a fair trade to have one season in the top flight. As it stands we do not have the players or the finances to keep a place in the premiership, we are losing money right left and Center and we are an unsustainable club, this is indisputable.

Surely success would be top half of the Prem and competing in Europe. Otherwise I'm not sure how anyone can think spending £100m of someone else's money and trading in our clubs identity is worth promotion alone.

Just a thought.

A lot of this debt comes from the days of SH and PR. If we don't go up we all know we would be up shit creek.

Success to me is reaching a level where we haven't been before in the last 47 years. I'm sure you would be the first to state here if we didn't go up we would have failed this season.... you can't have it both ways, therefore this season will be a success.

Yes, reaching the premiership is success....whether you like it or not.

As for the re-brand....... I told you, personally I don't care about the re-brand. It is Cardiff City and we are going to the premiership. If we make the top half etc you will deem it as success? I reckon nothing will make you happy....some fans just love to wallow in their self pity. You actually enjoy having that moan.

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you mean relative?

Yep

So you say that success is relative, but then decide what success is in our current position. Wouldn't it be fairer to say that you don't believe this represents success but clearly others do?

Otherwise your point doesn't make sense, you either think it's relative or you dont.

It's relative to the club, that doesn't mean you cannot deduce what is a fair trade off for the success gained. Relativity does not mean it's immeasurable, it means it differs from club to club.

A club that has sacrificed nothing will have achieved major success by gaining promotion. A club having to get rid of their colours, badge, pride, financial prosperity etc in order to get it isn't really a success as surely most fans would treasure the club itself over a promotion?

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

Promotion from the Championship and winning the English title are vastly different. I'd say it's a fair trade off as the success has been continued and extensive, winning titles, champions leagues and domestic trophies. This can be deemed as a success as what they have had to sacrifice is little compared to what they have gained.

Got to start somewhere. Nobody knows how continued or extensive our success will be. In the case of man city, im not sure spending many hundreds of millions to win one title can be classed as a small sacrifice compared to the gain.

I have just read with interest the "47 years" read where the OP feels he's about to dawn on success after waiting 47 years and doesn't want anyone spoiling it for him by bringing up the rebrand etc...

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you think Liverpool would get rid of their red kit, their liver bird and heap more debt on themselves to an almost critical level just to compete in the top 4 again? No.

Getting promotion to the premier league is something the likes of Blackpool and Burnley have done in recent times. In their case it was a success as although their stay was short, they spent little to get there and e reward by far outweighed the cost to get there.

It's very difficult to weigh up what success would be seen as if the cost is to trade in the clubs colours, nickname, badge, identity, £100m debt and rising but would almost certainly not be seen as a fair trade to have one season in the top flight. As it stands we do not have the players or the finances to keep a place in the premiership, we are losing money right left and Center and we are an unsustainable club, this is indisputable.

Surely success would be top half of the Prem and competing in Europe. Otherwise I'm not sure how anyone can think spending £100m of someone else's money and trading in our clubs identity is worth promotion alone.

Just a thought.

A lot of this debt comes from the days of SH and PR. If we don't go up we all know we would be up shit creek.

Success to me is reaching a level where we haven't been before in the last 47 years. I'm sure you would be the first to state here if we didn't go up we would have failed this season.... you can't have it both ways, therefore this season will be a success.

Yes, reaching the premiership is success....whether you like it or not.

As for the re-brand....... I told you, personally I don't care about the re-brand. It is Cardiff City and we are going to the premiership. If we make the top half etc you will deem it as success? I reckon nothing will make you happy....some fans just love to wallow in their self pity. You actually enjoy having that moan.

Well that's not true unfortunately. We all know that Cardiff city is now not a viable business. Promotion could be the catalyst for destruction of the club. We will be one of favourites to go down next year, if that happens the debt pulled on top of us will be beyond comprehension.

So how can achieving something that will, according to most sources, lead to us being favourite to cripple the club?

Promotion is not success if you have to sacrifice the club. It's counter productive.

It's a success of you want to see Rooney, it's not a success if you are a Cardiff city supporter hoping for their prosperity. Depends which camp you are in.

If you ask most clubs what you would want in footballing terms in order to Do what tan has done here, then sustained champions league may be the answer, some may say nothing at all.

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

Promotion from the Championship and winning the English title are vastly different. I'd say it's a fair trade off as the success has been continued and extensive, winning titles, champions leagues and domestic trophies. This can be deemed as a success as what they have had to sacrifice is little compared to what they have gained.

Got to start somewhere. Nobody knows how continued or extensive our success will be. In the case of man city, im not sure spending many hundreds of millions to win one title can be classed as a small sacrifice compared to the gain.

Absolutely my point. So simply promotion is not a success in terms of what has been sacrificed.

As for man city, the hold none of the financial burden what so ever. They are probably in the best footballing position in world football.

I have just read with interest the "47 years" read where the OP feels he's about to dawn on success after waiting 47 years and doesn't want anyone spoiling it for him by bringing up the rebrand etc...

But - It isn't really success though is it. Success is a relevant term, you must weigh the prize up against what has been "paid" for it. For example, if I played the lottery this week and won the jackpot of £6million after spending £15million on tickets, yes I won the lottery but was it worth it? No.

Do you think Liverpool would get rid of their red kit, their liver bird and heap more debt on themselves to an almost critical level just to compete in the top 4 again? No.

Getting promotion to the premier league is something the likes of Blackpool and Burnley have done in recent times. In their case it was a success as although their stay was short, they spent little to get there and e reward by far outweighed the cost to get there.

It's very difficult to weigh up what success would be seen as if the cost is to trade in the clubs colours, nickname, badge, identity, £100m debt and rising but would almost certainly not be seen as a fair trade to have one season in the top flight. As it stands we do not have the players or the finances to keep a place in the premiership, we are losing money right left and Center and we are an unsustainable club, this is indisputable.

Surely success would be top half of the Prem and competing in Europe. Otherwise I'm not sure how anyone can think spending £100m of someone else's money and trading in our clubs identity is worth promotion alone.

Just a thought.

A lot of this debt comes from the days of SH and PR. If we don't go up we all know we would be up shit creek.

Success to me is reaching a level where we haven't been before in the last 47 years. I'm sure you would be the first to state here if we didn't go up we would have failed this season.... you can't have it both ways, therefore this season will be a success.

Yes, reaching the premiership is success....whether you like it or not.

As for the re-brand....... I told you, personally I don't care about the re-brand. It is Cardiff City and we are going to the premiership. If we make the top half etc you will deem it as success? I reckon nothing will make you happy....some fans just love to wallow in their self pity. You actually enjoy having that moan.

Well that's not true unfortunately. We all know that Cardiff city is now not a viable business. Promotion could be the catalyst for destruction of the club. We will be one of favourites to go down next year, if that happens the debt pulled on top of us will be beyond comprehension.

So how can achieving something that will, according to most sources, lead to us being favourite to cripple the club?

Promotion is not success if you have to sacrifice the club. It's counter productive.

It's a success of you want to see Rooney, it's not a success if you are a Cardiff city supporter hoping for their prosperity. Depends which camp you are in.

If you ask most clubs what you would want in footballing terms in order to Do what tan has done here, then sustained champions league may be the answer, some may say nothing at all.

Do you agree that if we didn't go up this season it would be considered as failure?

We haven't been in the top flight for over half a century.........getting there is a success whether you like it or not.

You just can't get over the re-brand...that's your choice. Trying to rubbish our promotion doesn't change the fact that most consider going up is deemed as very successful.

There is no pleasing you....if we don't go up we have failed...if we go up we haven't been successful.

Only at Cardiff City.

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

Promotion from the Championship and winning the English title are vastly different. I'd say it's a fair trade off as the success has been continued and extensive, winning titles, champions leagues and domestic trophies. This can be deemed as a success as what they have had to sacrifice is little compared to what they have gained.

Got to start somewhere. Nobody knows how continued or extensive our success will be. In the case of man city, im not sure spending many hundreds of millions to win one title can be classed as a small sacrifice compared to the gain.

Absolutely my point. So simply promotion is not a success in terms of what has been sacrificed.

As for man city, the hold none of the financial burden what so ever. They are probably in the best footballing position in world football.

It's still success. The alternative is to not get promoted, why would that be classed as? Success is relative and to varying degrees, where you put promotion to the prem league for Cardiff is about opinion. But at this stage it's the best we can achieve and therefore its success.

Yes not going up would have been a failure. But due to the circumstances, that doesn't mean that promotion is then seen as a success. The margins have widened completely.

To be considered a success then you must get rewarded in proportion or in most cases a lot greater than what has been sacrificed.

To be promoted alone surely cannot be seen as a success due to what has had to be given away. I'm sure 99% of clubs wouldn't deem a Blackpool, burnley style promotion a success if they had to sacrifice what Cardiff city has had to. So promotion alone is not a success.

Ref money, have Chelsea or Man City been successful in recent years, you know by spending someone else's money? How much debt are man u in? Of course though what we have here is yet another pro jack, wum thread by you-know-who

Just a thought

Promotion from the Championship and winning the English title are vastly different. I'd say it's a fair trade off as the success has been continued and extensive, winning titles, champions leagues and domestic trophies. This can be deemed as a success as what they have had to sacrifice is little compared to what they have gained.

Got to start somewhere. Nobody knows how continued or extensive our success will be. In the case of man city, im not sure spending many hundreds of millions to win one title can be classed as a small sacrifice compared to the gain.

Absolutely my point. So simply promotion is not a success in terms of what has been sacrificed.

As for man city, the hold none of the financial burden what so ever. They are probably in the best footballing position in world football.

It's still success. The alternative is to not get promoted, why would that be classed as? Success is relative and to varying degrees, where you put promotion to the prem league for Cardiff is about opinion. But at this stage it's the best we can achieve and therefore its success.

Then I will take you back to my lottery example.

If I spend £15m on lottery tickets and won £6m... Would it be seen as success just because if I didnt win it, it would be seen as failure?

The prize is disproportionate to what I would have sacrificed.

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

Of course it works. You only get future financial rewards if you achieve other things once promoted, they THEN may be seen as a success and worth the cost to put the club in that position.

Right now we have promotion from the championship weighed up against £100m debt, blue banished, malaysia spralled everywhere, bluebird demoted and widely thought to also have its days numbered, uncertainty over club name, stadium turning red etc etc

So it's not a failure but far far far away from anything like "success".

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

Of course it works. You only get future financial rewards if you achieve other things once promoted, they THEN may be seen as a success and worth the cost to put the club in that position.

Right now we have promotion from the championship weighed up against £100m debt, blue banished, malaysia spralled everywhere, bluebird demoted and widely thought to also have its days numbered, uncertainty over club name, stadium turning red etc etc

So it's not a failure but far far far away from anything like "success".

Why have you a problem with Malaysia?

Would you be happy with "McDonald's" or "Dai's flares of Tredegar?"

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

Of course it works. You only get future financial rewards if you achieve other things once promoted, they THEN may be seen as a success and worth the cost to put the club in that position.

Right now we have promotion from the championship weighed up against £100m debt, blue banished, malaysia spralled everywhere, bluebird demoted and widely thought to also have its days numbered, uncertainty over club name, stadium turning red etc etc

So it's not a failure but far far far away from anything like "success".

Why have you a problem with Malaysia?

Would you be happy with "McDonald's" or "Dai's flares of Tredegar?"

No problem with it, beautiful country.

However the club seems to have become a play thing for a Malysian who is trying to turn a club with welsh heritage into a club for his new target audience which doesn't involve you anymore, but people from a country thousands of miles away who have never heard of the club. It just what it represents rather than the country itself.

Mcdonalds don't sponsor things on order to change the club into a macdonalds themed club.

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

Of course it works. You only get future financial rewards if you achieve other things once promoted, they THEN may be seen as a success and worth the cost to put the club in that position.

Right now we have promotion from the championship weighed up against £100m debt, blue banished, malaysia spralled everywhere, bluebird demoted and widely thought to also have its days numbered, uncertainty over club name, stadium turning red etc etc

So it's not a failure but far far far away from anything like "success".

Why have you a problem with Malaysia?

Would you be happy with "McDonald's" or "Dai's flares of Tredegar?"

No problem with it, beautiful country.

However the club seems to have become a play thing for a Malysian who is trying to turn a club with welsh heritage into a club for his new target audience which doesn't involve you anymore, but people from a country thousands of miles away who have never heard of the club. It just what it represents rather than the country itself.

Mcdonalds don't sponsor things on order to change the club into a macdonalds themed club.

When did a welshman last invest big money into this club of ours?

A few years ago this club of ours was going to the wall......I didn't see any locals invest a cent.

The lottery example doesn't work as a comparison since promotion is a gateway to future financial rewards. It's an investment as opposed to one off cost v benefit, but marks initial success on the way to achieving the bigger aim.

Of course it works. You only get future financial rewards if you achieve other things once promoted, they THEN may be seen as a success and worth the cost to put the club in that position.

Right now we have promotion from the championship weighed up against £100m debt, blue banished, malaysia spralled everywhere, bluebird demoted and widely thought to also have its days numbered, uncertainty over club name, stadium turning red etc etc

So it's not a failure but far far far away from anything like "success".

Why have you a problem with Malaysia?

Would you be happy with "McDonald's" or "Dai's flares of Tredegar?"

No problem with it, beautiful country.

However the club seems to have become a play thing for a Malysian who is trying to turn a club with welsh heritage into a club for his new target audience which doesn't involve you anymore, but people from a country thousands of miles away who have never heard of the club. It just what it represents rather than the country itself.

Mcdonalds don't sponsor things on order to change the club into a macdonalds themed club.

When did a welshman last invest big money into this club of ours?

A few years ago this club of ours was going to the wall......I didn't see any locals invest a cent.

It's nothing to do with the nationality of the owner, it can be an American in Ronald McDonald for all I care. The issue comes when said owner then disregards the clubs traditions to replace them with his own.

I don't believe in "investments", they are simply loans. I also don't think you need an investor to be successful. A chairman should be the treasurer of the club deciding where the money the CLUB earns is best spent. Is is the key to longevity, not taking loans out to a crippling level from an "investor".

Spot on Paxman.

I for one am just enjoying the ride and success for me will definitely be promotion to the English Premier League. Bigger crowds than we have ever had, waiting lists for season tickets. The vast majority of the South Wales public are speaking with their pockets and supporting this successful drive onwards and upwards to the promised land. And relatively speaking they all seem happy.

Getting promotion to the premiership is on a par with finishing 17th in the premiership because it gives access to next years tv money payments. Next year I am sure the target will be to finish at least 17th if we get promoted but if you look at 17th placed Villa's record so far this season they have won only 4 out of 15 at home and only scored 14 goals. You need to enjoy our current success because hopefully we won't see a lot of goals or wins for our team for the next few years if we stay in the premiership. If we do start having a home record like we do this season it will only be because we have been relegated.

Of course Roathy your relative argument is a rebrand of your original argument.Though you may find comfort with the support of that silly bugger chuckles your arguments are actually as baseless as when you started out as Canton Magic.

Of course Roathy your relative argument is a rebrand of your original argument.Though you may find comfort with the support of that silly bugger chuckles your arguments are actually as baseless as when you started out as Canton Magic.

It's true. Possible Promotion is tarnished by the loss of our club identity and traditions.

What should be the best season in our lifetimes so far, is being dogged by in-fighting from fans and an unrecognisable Cardiff a city on the pitch.

If you wish to debate maturely, instead of pathetic name calling, go right ahead.

Feels just as good to me!

Each to their own but this success hasnt cost me a penny old Roathy.