" SURELY IT CANNOT CONTINUE AS IT IS? "

but you have not heard directly from any director that the debt is £70m? Likewise you have not heard directly from any director that the malaysians have invested £36m or even if this is true all of the debt was repayable rather than equity investment?

its a bit like chinese whispers really. Its probably best that we all wait until tomorrow when the figures are published then we can all have a look at what the auditors make of it all.

Well £70million would not show if the accounts are indeed released tomorrow Damien as I would expect you already know.

however charges at companies house would. Since we know that charges are being applied on debt instruments we can say no mortgages have been lodged since October 2010

CCFc mortgages

I'd hazard a guess that VT is not so naive as to gift any monies thus it is probably correct to suggest that the debt is not increasing in the manner being suggested

I have already said that material facts will be disclosed in the accounts if indeed they are material. Even if VT is injecting £1.2m per month, who is to say it is not being used to repay one form of debt and replace with another at terms more favourable to the club. there are so many unknowns here that any form of speculation really is pissing in the wind.

Can I ask again:

did you hear directly from a director that the malaysians have invested £36m? and
did you hear directly from a director that the clubs debt is now £70m?

Read above for response.

so the answer is no, you have not heard directly relating to £36m or £70m, they are figures you have arrived at without fully considering all of the facts: such as income, replacing one debt with another, no new mortgage charges over the club...

but you have not heard directly from any director that the debt is £70m? Likewise you have not heard directly from any director that the malaysians have invested £36m or even if this is true all of the debt was repayable rather than equity investment?

its a bit like chinese whispers really. Its probably best that we all wait until tomorrow when the figures are published then we can all have a look at what the auditors make of it all.

Well £70million would not show if the accounts are indeed released tomorrow Damien as I would expect you already know.

however charges at companies house would. Since we know that charges are being applied on debt instruments we can say no mortgages have been lodged since October 2010

CCFc mortgages

I'd hazard a guess that VT is not so naive as to gift any monies thus it is probably correct to suggest that the debt is not increasing in the manner being suggested

I hope it is not Damien but this is what was told to me.

but you have not heard directly from any director that the debt is £70m? Likewise you have not heard directly from any director that the malaysians have invested £36m or even if this is true all of the debt was repayable rather than equity investment?

its a bit like chinese whispers really. Its probably best that we all wait until tomorrow when the figures are published then we can all have a look at what the auditors make of it all.

Well £70million would not show if the accounts are indeed released tomorrow Damien as I would expect you already know.

How delightfully convenient for this story you have just broke

These figures have been discussed on here for some time, I have just made a post mentioning all these. Nothing new here.

Yet they conveniently cannot be backed up for at least another 12 months

Cheers for the ban too, very mature to ban anyone who dares disagree with you or show Sam for what he really is

I have just read through a thread on this board and thought I would start a new thread about the clubs finances.

Before I start I appreciate that some of the figures being posted on this board are a result of my updates and have not been qualified as fact but I will explain as I go how I came to know these figures.

Our current level of debt is by my reckoning over £70million and it is growing daily.

How does the £70million break down?

The Malaysians have so far invested £36million and £6million of that has been converted to shares therefore leaving them owed £30million. Steve Borley told a mutual friend of the figure that the Malaysians have invested after he learned that some posters on this message board were questioning the Malaysians committment.

Steve Borley also told our mutual friend that the Malaysians were putting in £1.2million every month to service the clubs day to day running.

We know there is a figure of £24million attached to Langston but there is also the other aspects of bonuses which become payable if and when certain achievements are made ie.promotion. When everything is added together with the interest then the Langston debt becomes £35million. This £35million is debated between the club and Langston but we know for certain that it is £24million plus the interest.

We also have other creditors still owed money, Ray Ranson, PMG, Steve Borley, Michael Isaac etc. these total more than £5million so we are in excess of £70million.

Now if we take into account that the Malaysians are paying £1.2million each month then the figure is continuing to rise, how long can this situation continue to happen.

The Langston debt will not just go away, regardless of anyone's view of Sam Hammam, it has to be serviced whether it be in 4 days or in 4 years.

The Malaysians debt will not just go away, when the time cones that the Malaysians move on then I do not envisage that the dent will be wiped free.

Our wage bill is 'broadly comparative' to that of last season yet we lost many of the big name players.

So how much longer can we go on adding to an already exuberant sum?

Carl I must say that these figures are a worry, When you consider the fact that Mr Haman/Langsdon debt was 20M pluss over six years or so on gates of 13.000 av gate, Yet with a far superior gate plus 18.000 ST sales a Wembley record any club would be proud of as appearances go 4/in 5 years, yet we are now looking at 70M Plus and a Million pound a month makes no sense, Yet I find it it rather unnerving that had the Club welcomed back Sam the debt would change significantly? I stated last week on here that I was concerned that if CCFC were to be promoted this season that some how the 90M windfall would be claimed as money's owed, something ain't right and I see a public enquiry on the horizon, Record gate receipts Millions in TV, TWO CUP FINALS, PLAYOFF FINAL FA Cup Semi Final /Merchandise and we are in a worse state than Leiceter ' Rangers' Southampton ' Even the scum have inferior gates than Cardiff and are not in our shape, ok one can argue they have money from their promotion but the way things are at CCFC at present if We did get promoted that 90M is already gone, My opinion is that the Forensic Accountants should be requested to look into things more vigorously since Mr Hamans departure rather than befor He left, Hay I'd have no qualms in doing a Pompey and feking them all off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cardiff till I Die

if this is what was told then perhaps the thread title should be a little less sensationalist.

to cut to the chase, no one really knows how much the debt is and that anything posted in this thread should be treated with a large dose of salt.

if this is what was told then perhaps the thread title should be a little less sensationalist.

to cut to the chase, no one really knows how much the debt is and that anything posted in this thread should be treated with a large dose of salt.

There was me thinking I stated exactly how I came to the figures in the original post.

Maybe next time I should not explain it.

This will be my one and only post on this topic:
The accounts are apparantly being released tomorrow.
What will this tell us and will there be a page on the club website?

if this is what was told then perhaps the thread title should be a little less sensationalist.

to cut to the chase, no one really knows how much the debt is and that anything posted in this thread should be treated with a large dose of salt.

There was me thinking I stated exactly how I came to the figures in the original post.

Maybe next time I should not explain it.

You did but then your source appeared .

if this is what was told then perhaps the thread title should be a little less sensationalist.

to cut to the chase, no one really knows how much the debt is and that anything posted in this thread should be treated with a large dose of salt.

There was me thinking I stated exactly how I came to the figures in the original post.

Maybe next time I should not explain it.

You did but then your source appeared .

Read his response again and I think you will find someone is dodging the issue.

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

All seems odd.

So are we concerned about the debt or do we want more players?

Carl

fine, I accept that you added up a few numbers. however, your grasp of finances appears to have some shortcomings. you completely ignore income in your calculations, you ignore publicly accessibly information that any analyst would look for first. you create a long post that really has little merit and is unsubstantiated by fact and endorsed by rumour.

As I said, it appears to be a case of hearing a rumour and engaging in post hoc rationalisation.

What I don't get is every time Carl makes a thread like this relating to finances, the usual suspects appear and rather than face the topic head on and explain to the forum what their view of what is true, they just try to use the supposed fact that Carl 'cant grasp finances' as a tool to win the debate. All about egos.

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Well the point is Steve, you want certain things put out and you get your mate Steve Davies to ask me to put it on, the way I see it you are not best pleased that your name appears in this thread and for some bizarre reason you are denying any knowledge or recollection of our conversation and now claim that you have said anything of what I have posted to your good friend Steve Davies.

I have rung Steve Davies and his phone is turned off but I am sure he will call back before work tomorrow.

I also rang your phone some time ago but you failed to answer.

You have had the cake and eaten it but too much cake is not good for you never mind tripe.

Sometimes a piece of paper is not worth much but a mans word and morals speaks volumes.

Carl very interesting that you quote my name and yet not my friend, secondly I have no recollection speaking to you after the Reading game. You are constantly in the press as the "fans spokesman" telling us we need to sign more players and back the manager and next minute saying cant continue as it is. Anyone see Villas results today or Man City's or Chelsea's results recently. The accounts will be published shortly best to wait rather than speculate and concentrate on watching football.

Give him a 10yr banning order

What I don't get is every time Carl makes a thread like this relating to finances, the usual suspects appear and rather than face the topic head on and explain to the forum what their view of what is true, they just try to use the supposed fact that Carl 'cant grasp finances' as a tool to win the debate. All about egos.

well ignoring income is a good way of hiding the fact you understand finances. our income is £20m per annum or thereabouts. MM was given a budget at the start of the year of £20m or so to include players wages and any transfer fees. If we need another £15m to cover the shortfall then our running costs are £35m per annum.

do you honestly believe our running costs are £35m per annum when for the first time in this clubs history we have serious businessmen with a solid understanding of business finance steering the ship? I don't, I reckon our costs are nearer £20m.

no new charges have been registered at companies house, yet what VT has put in thus far has been backed by some form of security that has been registered at Companies House.

what evidence, other than here say and whispers, has been provided to suggest our debt has risen to £70m?

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Sunday was one of the best days ever following Cardiff City. Long may it continue.

Are the accounts published tomorrow or just filled with Companies House?

You could not borrow enough to buy a tripe supper on the security of a certain piece of paper

I think this statement say's so much in this thread.

Coming from directly within the club, it is obviously what other board members believe too I would have thought.

Are the accounts published tomorrow or just filled with Companies House?

submitted to Companies House, available for inspection within 2 working days. I'll have a copy close of business Thursday

You could not borrow enough to buy a tripe supper on the security of a certain piece of paper

I think this statement say's so much in this thread.

Coming from directly within the club, it is obviously what other board members believe too I would have thought.

Have to agree.

I have not asked for anything to be put out and why would i when you appear to have all the knowledge. If your name was taken in vain or questioned you would be the first to produce an update and what right have you got to quote anyone in such a manner.
I don't eat cakes or prawn sarnies for that matter only the halftime clarkes pies hence the fuller figure in the pink kit.
I note your comments on paper and morals and there are only 2 chairman in my 14 years who did not take anything out only put it in and your mate is not one of them.

Are the accounts published tomorrow or just filled with Companies House?

submitted to Companies House, available for inspection within 2 working days. I'll have a copy close of business Thursday

Will keep my £1 warm to buy a copy :] Cheers for the info

I have not asked for anything to be put out and why would i when you appear to have all the knowledge. If your name was taken in vain or questioned you would be the first to produce an update and what right have you got to quote anyone in such a manner.
I don't eat cakes or prawn sarnies for that matter only the halftime clarkes pies hence the fuller figure in the pink kit.
I note your comments on paper and morals and there are only 2 chairman in my 14 years who did not take anything out only put it in and your mate is not one of them.

When I believe someone is trying to take the mick then I will quote.

I wouldn't buy a tripe supper either.

As far as my mate goes I think he done a lot more for this football club than you give him credit for.

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Well the point is Steve, you want certain things put out and you get your mate Steve Davies to ask me to put it on, the way I see it you are not best pleased that your name appears in this thread and for some bizarre reason you are denying any knowledge or recollection of our conversation and now claim that you have said anything of what I have posted to your good friend Steve Davies.

I have rung Steve Davies and his phone is turned off but I am sure he will call back before work tomorrow.

I also rang your phone some time ago but you failed to answer.

You have had the cake and eaten it but too much cake is not good for you never mind tripe.

Sometimes a piece of paper is not worth much but a mans word and morals speaks volumes.

I woudnt want to rob a bank with you carl

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Well the point is Steve, you want certain things put out and you get your mate Steve Davies to ask me to put it on, the way I see it you are not best pleased that your name appears in this thread and for some bizarre reason you are denying any knowledge or recollection of our conversation and now claim that you have said anything of what I have posted to your good friend Steve Davies.

I have rung Steve Davies and his phone is turned off but I am sure he will call back before work tomorrow.

I also rang your phone some time ago but you failed to answer.

You have had the cake and eaten it but too much cake is not good for you never mind tripe.

Sometimes a piece of paper is not worth much but a mans word and morals speaks volumes.

I woudnt want to rob a bank with you carl

I wouldn't rob a bank

Jinks, sometimes you have to bite back.

Did you notice how quick Steve Borley appeared on this thread.

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Well the point is Steve, you want certain things put out and you get your mate Steve Davies to ask me to put it on, the way I see it you are not best pleased that your name appears in this thread and for some bizarre reason you are denying any knowledge or recollection of our conversation and now claim that you have said anything of what I have posted to your good friend Steve Davies.

I have rung Steve Davies and his phone is turned off but I am sure he will call back before work tomorrow.

I also rang your phone some time ago but you failed to answer.

You have had the cake and eaten it but too much cake is not good for you never mind tripe.

Sometimes a piece of paper is not worth much but a mans word and morals speaks volumes.

I woudnt want to rob a bank with you carl

I wouldn't rob a bank

Jinks, sometimes you have to bite back.

Did you notice how quick Steve Borley appeared on this thread.

Don't tell me he is Daya as well

have to say people this topic has got personal .we all know football is in debt all major clubs are in it up to there necks ie real madrid 1 bill man utd chelsea but tell me something i dont allready know cardiff have been run at a loss from rick wrights days and onwards i can remember city being in trouble but hey we are still here now we have a director of the club and the peoples spokesman airing the washing in public come on boys we all have one thing in common our love for ccfc rant over bring on the hammers and lets get the 3 points

It will prove I am suffering from a form of due to my advanced years and other than the tooth fairy I have not mentioned any name not referred to by you Carl so not sure where your coming from. We have just had the best football experience for years and you chose to run a thread on shock and Horror. I hope things do continue as they are and our manager and superb bunch of spirited players continue to bring us pleasure.

Well the point is Steve, you want certain things put out and you get your mate Steve Davies to ask me to put it on, the way I see it you are not best pleased that your name appears in this thread and for some bizarre reason you are denying any knowledge or recollection of our conversation and now claim that you have said anything of what I have posted to your good friend Steve Davies.

I have rung Steve Davies and his phone is turned off but I am sure he will call back before work tomorrow.

I also rang your phone some time ago but you failed to answer.

You have had the cake and eaten it but too much cake is not good for you never mind tripe.

Sometimes a piece of paper is not worth much but a mans word and morals speaks volumes.

I woudnt want to rob a bank with you carl

I wouldn't rob a bank

Jinks, sometimes you have to bite back.

Did you notice how quick Steve Borley appeared on this thread.

Carl, would you not agree though, that if a certain piece of paper is worthless, that it has to be to the benefit of the club?
Yes it would be detrimental to a certain person, but thousands would be happy if it was worthless surely?