What has Vincent Tan ever done for us????

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

wrong.....he turned us red.......and we all want blue.........
the divide is those that want to see us up to our eyes in debt,and those that do not......of course the group that dont care what sort of mess we are in hide behind the blue, and those of a different opinion are called reds.............truth is the real cardiff fans..the real blues..want a club

so am I a real fan then if I want our debts sorted and us playing in blue and want the red gone now ??

TAN OUT !!

The best thing that Tan has done is get rid of the egg-chasers. The worst, obviously, is changing our primary, home colours, and badge. There are plenty of other decent things that he has done too, but the 're-brand' poisons everything. If he just changed us back to blue, then all would be well. The financial 'experts' on here would still debate debt, equity, whatever that means, but most of us would be happy enough.

The best thing that Tan has done is get rid of the egg-chasers. The worst, obviously, is changing our primary, home colours, and badge. There are plenty of other decent things that he has done too, but the 're-brand' poisons everything. If he just changed us back to blue, then all would be well. The financial 'experts' on here would still debate debt, equity, whatever that means, but most of us would be happy enough.

And he never did that either as they begged to leave the stadium and it just got worse and worse for them, so they paid to actually leave.

What has Tan done ? Stripped our identity split the fan base. Put us in enormous debt a whole lot more than when he took over but hey ho we're are back in the same league as when he took over. The experience of the average supporter of watching our club has gone right down with many stating it's the worst time they have ever known at the Club hundreds have walked away.
But yeah good old Vinny has done an excellent job.
TAN OUT !!

He has done good and bad. Shame a bitter few refuse to recognise that. Thankfully it is just a few.

What has Tan done ? Stripped our identity split the fan base. Put us in enormous debt a whole lot more than when he took over but hey ho we're are back in the same league as when he took over. The experience of the average supporter of watching our club has gone right down with many stating it's the worst time they have ever known at the Club hundreds have walked away.
But yeah good old Vinny has done an excellent job.
TAN OUT !!

I have to say the experience of watching us now is nowhere near as good as it used to be still enjoy it but before every away game we are all praying we can wear blue for that game , it shouldn't be like that a club belongs to fans

The best thing that Tan has done is get rid of the egg-chasers. The worst, obviously, is changing our primary, home colours, and badge. There are plenty of other decent things that he has done too, but the 're-brand' poisons everything. If he just changed us back to blue, then all would be well. The financial 'experts' on here would still debate debt, equity, whatever that means, but most of us would be happy enough.

And he never did that either as they begged to leave the stadium and it just got worse and worse for them, so they paid to actually leave.

Is that what really happened? My mistake for crediting Tan . If my memory serves me right, they left round about the same time as the red bombshell, so it all got a bit mixed up. At least they're gone, Tan or no Tan

Put us in to millions more debt, stripped the club of its identity, alienated the fan base with dismissive comments, made the club a laughing stock up and down the country, split the fan base to a level never seen before.

Constantly delayed promises about debt to equity. Confirmed he won't be doing a full debt to equity swap, as promised originally.

We've had our difference Chuckles, but I totally agree!!

Right then;

What Natman Blue has stated in his post are cold hard facts about what VT has done to move the club forward from the finiancial plight we faced a couple of years ago. Barry Chuckle has retorted with a comment stating he has plunged us further into the red, which the bottom line of the balance sheet will confirm.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, despite the fact thr overall debt has risen, surely as a business we are more financially secure, as Natman states, we are in debt to one man, the owner, rather than many vultures circling as we had with Hamamm, HMRC and affiliated companies like PMG in recent years gone by.
There is no denying from people of a similiar opinion to me that VT stripped the club of its core identity when he initiated the rebrand, and it is for that reason I hold my blue scarf aloft at 1927 and sing 'we'll always be blue' its a message to Tan that those changes were unacceptable and will never be adopted by the majority of fans.

I would however, as Natman agrees, be willing to work with VT via the Trust to find some.common ground and negotiate with the Olive branch VT offered to the fans in his TV interview.
One thing I will say though *CONTROVERSIAL KLAXON* I hope that VT does not refuse to work with CCST now due to their alternative kit launch (note: im not saying its a bad thing that CCST done, im merely suggesting Tan might be less likely to want to work with them now).

As for Barry Chuckles point about the fact that Tan has not converted debt to equity, why the hell should he, fans of your stance would still like no better of him, you can't expect him to keep handing out cash will getting a tolerate of abuse from sections of the fanbase, who would never work with him for compromise, they want all their own way and will accept any alternatives nor compromise.

Thank God that British people didn't just look at infrastructure and money in the 1930's/40's!!

Fantastic Autobahns
Technological advances
Nice uniforms (but not ours)

This is, of course, a ridiculous comparison, but I hope you know what I mean.

Reminds me very much of Monty Python's 'Life of Brian': "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

Of course there are benefits from having an investor, but if it means that you lose you identity, beware of history, because if you ignore it, YOU WILL BE COMPELLED TO REPEAT IT!

Just saying. (There's no red kit option on this forum. I wonder why. Probably called integrity).

Just another red v blue thread getting boring now

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Your talking on deaf ears and trying to explain to the blinkered. Many fans and Tan himself are entrenched in their views. Now I hate the red and would never wear it in fact I always proudly wear blue to the games and often during leisure time. However in my opinion there is no doubting Tan has done a lot of good for our club as you have listed not least rescuing our club from extinction at the last hour (had he not done so we would not be discussing Cardiff City FC in any shape or form as it wouldn't exist). We need to engage with Tan and get some dialogue going as negotiation is the only way to resolve matters between the clubs heirarchy and its fans - protests and singing "we'll always be blue" won't work, all it serves is to destabilise the club further. However I can't see negotiations happening as views are so entrenched on both sides.
Saying all this though Tan is not going to leave anytime soon. He will only leave when he has an out i.e getting us to the Premier League and selling us to an investor at a profit and not before.
I guess what I'm saying is negotiate and engage it might work better than protesting which only serves do destabilise our club further.

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Good post ,support the club through thick and thin

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

There has always been infighting amongst our fans, it used to be over territory and got quite violent in the 70s and 80s, between Cardiff suburbs and valleys. When I started following Cardiff, the most attractive part of it was marauding through the UK having battles with other hooligan firms, the football took a back seat for many who followed City then, can you imagine if social media had existed at that time? You would have those supporters who were supporting Cardiff for the love of football almost in tears because of how the hooligan element were wrecking the very fabric of the club and the very same fans leaders who are now telling us on a daily basis how this outsider has split the fan base and turned fans against fans, would have stuck two fingers up to them and carried on with doing what they wanted. There's way too many hypocrites out there

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Correct, Support the Club through thick and thin,turn up at matches no matter what, but fight for our true identity and keep our pride and respect

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Correct, Support the Club through thick and thin,turn up at matches no matter what, but fight for our true identity and keep our pride and respect

That's not what he said. Can you answer my question from the previous page annis? Why do you keep saying that tan promised the debt would be sorted in days when it's been proven time and time again that he's never said that

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

The crowds will tell us about the effect of relegation nothing more

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Correct, Support the Club through thick and thin,turn up at matches no matter what, but fight for our true identity and keep our pride and respect

That's not what he said. Can you answer my question from the previous page annis? Why do you keep saying that tan promised the debt would be sorted in days when it's been proven time and time again that he's never said that

And I have told you, time and time again, Simon Lim and Allan Whitley both CEO's, both under Tans employment, both acting on his behalf have stated to us in meetings that Tan would change the debt to equity, within months and also said in days. End off

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

The crowds will tell us about the effect of relegation nothing more

But were moving forward so some say on here

Doesn't matter if it was tan or a different owner we would always be loaning money and pushed even more into debt until it's all converted, tan can't win even after the good he has done because the bad will always take the shine of the good and he's done a lot of good but we can't see that because of the re brand now if he didn't re brand us the good he has actually done would be praised a hell of alot but tan has dug his own hole, I'm not for and I'm not against tan I just want to continue to support our great club through thick and thin

Correct, Support the Club through thick and thin,turn up at matches no matter what, but fight for our true identity and keep our pride and respect

That's not what he said. Can you answer my question from the previous page annis? Why do you keep saying that tan promised the debt would be sorted in days when it's been proven time and time again that he's never said that

And I have told you, time and time again, Simon Lim and Allan Whitley both CEO's, both under Tans employment, both acting on his behalf have stated to us in meetings that Tan would change the debt to equity, within months and also said in days. End off

So tan hasn't said it?

I'm a ceo of a governing body in wales. I can say things, but it doesn't mean I speak for my board. In fact I've been in meetings today where I've had to say I'll take things back and seek their guidance.

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

The crowds will tell us about the effect of relegation nothing more

But were moving forward so some say on here

Yes we are. Off the pitch and on it, this have taken a step back on the pitch but tan and ole are trying to correct it. Have you never had a set back in your businesses?

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

My bro done them all long live Sir Tan and my bro and i will wear our Red next season proudly

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

Me and my bro said he never all lies by the old time Blue fans, Tan never promised anything but Red Red Red and more debt

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

I wonder what percentage of people on this forum actually go to games?

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

I wonder what percentage of people on this forum actually go to games?

I have always wondered that, good question?