BU-- PLEASE WATCH THIS VID.

Mate are customers, he admitted it himself.

Of course we are, what do you consider yourself as then? and as customers if you don't like the product, you are free to take your custom elsewhere, but as soon as you do, there will be a rush of other customers waiting to replace you.

I'd say 95% of his customers would rather us be in blue. I think the club would be in better shape if Tan realised what it meant to many of us (evidently not you, but many of us) and we'd be in better shape going into the premier league.

Better shape? we 'd be lucky to still be trading and in business without his investment, we are in the best shape ever in our history.

There is a myth about some sort of contract the fans signed. It never happened. What we want is to liaise and engage with the owner of the club. That isn't much to ask, unless you a total sap that is. Not saying you are, but there is no problem with engagement, consultation and discussion.

No what you want is for him to change his mind, you can engage all you want, but he owns the club, he calls the shots, if enough people feel strong enough about it and walk away, he'll be forced to change his mind, but it was never going to happen, and never will unless he wants it to, pressure will not help to make him change his mind.

To be honest, it's bad business by Tan not to be doing that.

Bad business,and your advising a successful billionaire how to run his business, if your that good, why din't you buy the club.

And before you say it's just Tan bankrolling us, that's not true. Us as fans have been paying money into the club for decades, and we deserve some respect.

Respect, he just saved our club from bankruptcy, if enough of us had felt that strongly and supported the club in enough numbers when it was needed, we would never have needed bailing out, we have reaped what we sowed.[/quote]

Gwyn, it really does sicken me to read the above kind of stuff from a fan.

I've supported the club my whole life. I was there when most people in Cardiff took the piss out of me for watching the club.

I am angry because I feel that Cardiff City I know has gone and been replaced.

The club would be in a better shape, because the support would be united, the branding would be clear and there would be harmony. The change to red has brought nothing in itself, and it undermines much of the great work he's done.

Tan needs to listen to his customers. First rule of business.

Grow a pair will you? We are not passive little babies, we have a right to campaign for a return to blue if we want. Every other club would, so why shouldn't we?

Mate are customers, he admitted it himself.

Of course we are, what do you consider yourself as then? and as customers if you don't like the product, you are free to take your custom elsewhere, but as soon as you do, there will be a rush of other customers waiting to replace you.

I'd say 95% of his customers would rather us be in blue. I think the club would be in better shape if Tan realised what it meant to many of us (evidently not you, but many of us) and we'd be in better shape going into the premier league.

Better shape? we 'd be lucky to still be trading and in business without his investment, we are in the best shape ever in our history.

There is a myth about some sort of contract the fans signed. It never happened. What we want is to liaise and engage with the owner of the club. That isn't much to ask, unless you a total sap that is. Not saying you are, but there is no problem with engagement, consultation and discussion.

No what you want is for him to change his mind, you can engage all you want, but he owns the club, he calls the shots, if enough people feel strong enough about it and walk away, he'll be forced to change his mind, but it was never going to happen, and never will unless he wants it to, pressure will not help to make him change his mind.

To be honest, it's bad business by Tan not to be doing that.

Bad business,and your advising a successful billionaire how to run his business, if your that good, why din't you buy the club.

And before you say it's just Tan bankrolling us, that's not true. Us as fans have been paying money into the club for decades, and we deserve some respect.

Respect, he just saved our club from bankruptcy, if enough of us had felt that strongly and supported the club in enough numbers when it was needed, we would never have needed bailing out, we have reaped what we sowed.[/quote]

Well said

I totally respect much of what Tan has done, but he hasn't invested out of the kindness of his heart. He'll be using Cardiff City too, and the rebrand is evidence of that. Whether it's to use the club to try and attract Chinese investors to his other businesses, or using it as a show of strength, his power over customers..I don't know, but he's benefiting.

That's beside the point though. Many football clubs have been invested in by new owners, but they haven't had their colours and identity ripped out and altered to the extent that (for me) it's no longer the same club I grew up watching. Surely we have a right to liaise and engage with him?

Gwyn, I take your point about 'reaping what we sow' and it always annoyed me that so few of the catchement area watched the City, and indeed they took the piss out of me for watching them, but I did watch them, I was there when there was only a few thousand, and so I am not to blame for not supporting the club when it needed it, yet I feel kicked in the teeth.

Mate are customers, he admitted it himself.

Of course we are, what do you consider yourself as then? and as customers if you don't like the product, you are free to take your custom elsewhere, but as soon as you do, there will be a rush of other customers waiting to replace you.

I'd say 95% of his customers would rather us be in blue. I think the club would be in better shape if Tan realised what it meant to many of us (evidently not you, but many of us) and we'd be in better shape going into the premier league.

Better shape? we 'd be lucky to still be trading and in business without his investment, we are in the best shape ever in our history.

There is a myth about some sort of contract the fans signed. It never happened. What we want is to liaise and engage with the owner of the club. That isn't much to ask, unless you a total sap that is. Not saying you are, but there is no problem with engagement, consultation and discussion.

No what you want is for him to change his mind, you can engage all you want, but he owns the club, he calls the shots, if enough people feel strong enough about it and walk away, he'll be forced to change his mind, but it was never going to happen, and never will unless he wants it to, pressure will not help to make him change his mind.

To be honest, it's bad business by Tan not to be doing that.

Bad business,and your advising a successful billionaire how to run his business, if your that good, why din't you buy the club.

And before you say it's just Tan bankrolling us, that's not true. Us as fans have been paying money into the club for decades, and we deserve some respect.

Respect, he just saved our club from bankruptcy, if enough of us had felt that strongly and supported the club in enough numbers when it was needed, we would never have needed bailing out, we have reaped what we sowed.

Gwyn, it really does sicken me to read the above kind of stuff from a fan.

I've supported the club my whole life. I was there when most people in Cardiff took the piss out of me for watching the club.

I am angry because I feel that Cardiff City I know has gone and been replaced.

The club would be in a better shape, because the support would be united, the branding would be clear and there would be harmony. The change to red has brought nothing in itself, and it undermines much of the great work he's done.

Tan needs to listen to his customers. First rule of business.

Grow a pair will you? We are not passive little babies, we have a right to campaign for a return to blue if we want. Every other club would, so why shouldn't we?[/quote]

Haven't said you shouldn't campaign, it's your choice, but don't expect me and others to sit back and read negative propaganda and lies and not respond, as for having balls, yes I got balls that is why I was prepared to make the sacrifice on behalf of the club I love, rather than put myself first.

As for listening to his customers, then surely he is, we have more now than ever in decades with more trying to join, his customers are telling him they are supporting the club and his business in droves.
Where were all these customers you go on about, when we needed these people who are now saying how important the colour blue is, where were they when we were getting three thousand crowds, if they had turned up in their numbers then, we would not have needed outside investment.

Mate are customers, he admitted it himself.

Of course we are, what do you consider yourself as then? and as customers if you don't like the product, you are free to take your custom elsewhere, but as soon as you do, there will be a rush of other customers waiting to replace you.

I'd say 95% of his customers would rather us be in blue. I think the club would be in better shape if Tan realised what it meant to many of us (evidently not you, but many of us) and we'd be in better shape going into the premier league.

Better shape? we 'd be lucky to still be trading and in business without his investment, we are in the best shape ever in our history.

There is a myth about some sort of contract the fans signed. It never happened. What we want is to liaise and engage with the owner of the club. That isn't much to ask, unless you a total sap that is. Not saying you are, but there is no problem with engagement, consultation and discussion.

No what you want is for him to change his mind, you can engage all you want, but he owns the club, he calls the shots, if enough people feel strong enough about it and walk away, he'll be forced to change his mind, but it was never going to happen, and never will unless he wants it to, pressure will not help to make him change his mind.

To be honest, it's bad business by Tan not to be doing that.

Bad business,and your advising a successful billionaire how to run his business, if your that good, why din't you buy the club.

And before you say it's just Tan bankrolling us, that's not true. Us as fans have been paying money into the club for decades, and we deserve some respect.

Respect, he just saved our club from bankruptcy, if enough of us had felt that strongly and supported the club in enough numbers when it was needed, we would never have needed bailing out, we have reaped what we sowed.

Gwyn, it really does sicken me to read the above kind of stuff from a fan.

I've supported the club my whole life. I was there when most people in Cardiff took the piss out of me for watching the club.

I am angry because I feel that Cardiff City I know has gone and been replaced.

The club would be in a better shape, because the support would be united, the branding would be clear and there would be harmony. The change to red has brought nothing in itself, and it undermines much of the great work he's done.

Tan needs to listen to his customers. First rule of business.

Grow a pair will you? We are not passive little babies, we have a right to campaign for a return to blue if we want. Every other club would, so why shouldn't we?

Haven't said you shouldn't campaign, it's your choice, but don't expect me and others to sit back and read negative propaganda and lies and not respond, as for having balls, yes I got balls that is why I was prepared to make the sacrifice on behalf of the club I love, rather than put myself first.

As for listening to his customers, then surely he is, we have more now than ever in decades with more trying to join, his customers are telling him they are supporting the club and his business in droves.
[color=#808080]Where were all these customers you go on about, when we needed these people who are now saying how important the colour blue is, where were they when we were getting three thousand crowds, if they had turned up in their numbers then, we would not have needed outside investment.[/color][/quote]

I would say the vast majority of these 3,000 are blue. Only a small fraction of them seem to want the red.

The fact we had small gates is no excuse for bad management or dismantling a clubs link with it's community. This was Borley's argument and to me it's myopic 'business man' rubbish. Basicly it's blamming local people for Tans unethical behaviour.

A lot of big clubs with big support have disrespectful owners. The only thing making Tans rebrand viable was the unique situation Cardiff found itself after a few big wembley appearences, we accrued a lot of new fans drawn-in by success without any developed affinity with the club or it's symbols so colour means very little. they were probably supporting a red side in the prem 3 years ago, EVEN THOUGH all the reluctant reds claim to have been there in the 80s.

Is Tans rebrand wrong and disrepectful? Yes

Should fans blame themselves? Not a chance, despite what the clubs propoganda machine say.

Well said,

Also, while Gwyn is trying to peddle the argument that 3,000 watched us in blue, and now thousands are knocking the door down because we are in red, the truth is somewhat different.

Our average crowd in 2010/11 was 23,194, which was higher than last season, despite being runaway champions.

We've been getting great crowds for several years. Blue was not unpopular, the club were popular.

All red has done is disrupted the fan base and harmony within the club.

I appreciate much of what Tan has done, but not the rebrand, and nor should I.

Would Liverpool fans trade their red shirts to be back in the champions league for one year? Would they f**k!

Well said,

Also, while Gwyn is trying to peddle the argument that 3,000 watched us in blue, and now thousands are knocking the door down because we are in red, the truth is somewhat different.

I have never said they are know knocking the door down in their thousands because they are red, what a load of bollox, but they are coming inspite of the red, so it hasn't put them off that much has it, FACT.

Our average crowd in 2010/11 was 23,194, which was higher than last season, despite being runaway champions.

We've been getting great crowds for several years. Blue was not unpopular, the club were popular.

All red has done is disrupted the fan base and harmony within the club.

That's not all it's done at all,it also ensured that VT invested in us and has got us to where we are now.


I appreciate much of what Tan has done, but not the rebrand, and nor should I.

Would Liverpool fans trade their red shirts to be back in the champions league for one year? Would they f**k!

Of course they wouldn't, but ask them would they do it, if it meant them not going out of business.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

Of course it was a myth, Someone in VT's position would never publicly come out and say accept my offer or your dead. What he did was far more clever, he let the board members and fans look at the alternatives, and the alternatives weren't good. All this talk of we'll stay and help to look for new investors to replace us, OH PLEASE, does even the most blinkered anti rebrand fan think for one second new investors would step in then, when a year before we couldn't get anyone to look let alone invest, and now we had even more debt.

Does anyone believe he would have stayed propping us up at one and a half million pound a month just to carry on relentless whilst we waited for the never to come new investors.

As our CEO said at the time, without new investors we would cease to trade for more than a few months.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

It may be the prime identity to you, but to many it isn't, my sense of belonging and I'm sure others will feel the same goes far deeper than a colour, can't think of many who started watching the club because they played in blue and that was their favourite colour.
We have been to Wembley four time s in recent years, I can honestly say I can't remember what colour we played in for either game, and when they run out onto the pitch, checking to see what colour shirt they were wearing was the least of my priorities.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

We all have different lists of importance I'm sure, a bit like a relationship, rarely does everything get 100% every time, but as long as the whole package is acceptable then you push on and stick with it.
Really support is proven when tested,not having things your own way all the time is not the way things work, sickness and health, good and bad, putting the best choice for the club ahead of your own is one such test.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

I fear CCFC are being primmed for a name change, why the stream of positive PR from Tans machine? First a holiday photoshoot in Malaysia, then a highly publicised charity give away. Why publicise either? So we'll all think of hom as our lovable benevolant uncle and roll over for Vincent when the Cardiff Dragons monicker is revealed.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

Of course it was a myth, Someone in VT's position would never publicly come out and say accept my offer or your dead. What he did was far more clever, he let the board members and fans look at the alternatives, and the alternatives weren't good. All this talk of we'll stay and help to look for new investors to replace us, OH PLEASE, does even the most blinkered anti rebrand fan think for one second new investors would step in then, when a year before we couldn't get anyone to look let alone invest, and now we had even more debt.

Does anyone believe he would have stayed propping us up at one and a half million pound a month just to carry on relentless whilst we waited for the never to come new investors.

As our CEO said at the time, without new investors we would cease to trade for more than a few months.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

It may be the prime identity to you, but to many it isn't, my sense of belonging and I'm sure others will feel the same goes far deeper than a colour, can't think of many who started watching the club because they played in blue and that was their favourite colour.
We have been to Wembley four time s in recent years, I can honestly say I can't remember what colour we played in for either game, and when they run out onto the pitch, checking to see what colour shirt they were wearing was the least of my priorities.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

We all have different lists of importance I'm sure, a bit like a relationship, rarely does everything get 100% every time, but as long as the whole package is acceptable then you push on and stick with it.
Really support is proven when tested,not having things your own way all the time is not the way things work, sickness and health, good and bad, putting the best choice for the club ahead of your own is one such test.

Is it a club or a business? Make your mind up The above sentiments have more validity using 'club' parameters , but sound very filmsy under a business/customer dynamic....... I.E. Why must a fan stick by it's business in sickness and in health? Nobody has an emotional attatchment to a business do they? To expect such one-waty loyalty and respect is abusing power.

Clubs are great, clubs bring a deeper meaning, purpose and identity to things. A club dynamic has to be reciprocal between the power brokers and the ickle club members. if you rebrand a clubs identity against it's members wishes, you are undermining the club ethic and abusing power.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

I fear CCFC are being primmed for a name change, why the stream of positive PR from Tans machine? First a holiday photoshoot in Malaysia, then a highly publicised charity give away. Why publicise either? So we'll all think of hom as our lovable benevolant uncle and roll over for Vincent when the Cardiff Dragons monicker is revealed.

bu propaganda again,stop making a fool of yourself.

The sad thing is people would rather have seen us go bust than play in a different colour.
How selfish and irresponsible that is.

It's a total myth that Tan wanted to perpetuate that it was red or dead.

The phrase may rhyme, it may sound simple, but it was never that simple.

You have to stand up for things in certain cases, and this is one such example. It's not acceptable to be held to ransom and not have any input into matters.

It's not just a colour either, it's the prime identity of the club. The bluebird, the colour. Everything else changes, but that doesn't.

The city we play in is clearly the main thing, but to me the colour is as important as the name of the club.

I fear CCFC are being primmed for a name change, why the stream of positive PR from Tans machine? First a holiday photoshoot in Malaysia, then a highly publicised charity give away. Why publicise either? So we'll all think of hom as our lovable benevolant uncle and roll over for Vincent when the Cardiff Dragons monicker is revealed.

bu propaganda again,stop making a fool of yourself.

Spartacus, You never explain anything in depth, just curse BU then disapear when asked for substance.

A name change is a very real threat unless we demostrate what our culture means to us. If you don't march with BU, who else can you blame if VT calls us 'Cardiff Malaysia' in 12 months time?

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

And you believe him explicitly? Wow

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Spartacus Are you satisfied to Have subjected the notion of 'redordead' to rigourous scrutiny?

And the same question with regard VT statements on a name change?

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Spartacus Are you satisfied to Have subjected the notion of 'redordead' to rigourous scrutiny?

And the same question with regard VT statements on a name change?

Im Spartacus again,you've lost the plot.

Apart from vt who else was willing to bail us out?

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Spartacus Are you satisfied to Have subjected the notion of 'redordead' to rigourous scrutiny?

And the same question with regard VT statements on a name change?

Im Spartacus again,you've lost the plot.

Apart from vt who else was willing to bail us out?

You've always been Spartacus. Is that the extent of your rigourous scrutiny? Asking the question online? Are you REALLY sure you wanted an alternative to TAN?

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Spartacus Are you satisfied to Have subjected the notion of 'redordead' to rigourous scrutiny?

And the same question with regard VT statements on a name change?

Im Spartacus again,you've lost the plot.

Apart from vt who else was willing to bail us out?

You've always been Spartacus. Is that the extent of your rigourous scrutiny? Asking the question online? Are you REALLY sure you wanted an alternative to TAN?

Go and have a lay down in a darkened room.
You could do with a rest i think.

For once Spartacus i agree with you.

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Spartacus Are you satisfied to Have subjected the notion of 'redordead' to rigourous scrutiny?

And the same question with regard VT statements on a name change?

Im Spartacus again,you've lost the plot.

Apart from vt who else was willing to bail us out?

Again? Holy shit i thought you got sven to delete the account

SUBJECT BOX SATS "BU-- PLEASE WATCH THIS VID."
That is short for Bluebirds Unite-- PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO

There is no harm in us BU followers trying... if we don't succeed - we don't succeed.
If we fail to make a difference then so be it.

Obviously as a member of Bluebirds Unite, I will not give up and neither will the few thousand fans who have supported us.
I am fed up with this divide. The rebrand is the topic still on every fans' mind and the rebrand is the reason there is constant arguing on this forum.
I just don't understand how some fans can't grasp the fact that some fans are disgruntled with the red.

As for Anthony saying "I hope it rains on the day of the march" - That is harsh on all the fans from row A to row G in our stands

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

BOOM!

As Chuckles said... What a hypocrit. Don't you think it should say RedorPlayinginbluewithadifferentowner... I'm sure if the board put their foot down then Tan would of allowed the blue to stay.
I highly doubt VT gave an ultimatum to the board. He probably just put his ideas across and the board allowed it.

I just wish that the fans were given the choice on a vote - similar to the shorts vote which I must say was a waste of time anyway

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

BOOM!

As Chuckles said... What a hypocrit. Don't you think it should say RedorPlayinginbluewithadifferentowner... I'm sure if the board put their foot down then Tan would of allowed the blue to stay.
I highly doubt VT gave an ultimatum to the board. He probably just put his ideas across and the board allowed it.

I just wish that the fans were given the choice on a vote - similar to the shorts vote which I must say was a waste of time anyway

Boom.
Another Bu member talking utter shit.

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Well I recall VT or his associates saying "other investors". That does not sound red or dead to me.

VT has said no name change,now stop scaremongering fool.

Yet your quite happy to scaremonger over the red or dead .

vt was our only option,unless you know anything different.

Well I recall VT or his associates saying "other investors". That does not sound red or dead to me.

That's what i thought.