I know this is going to be contentious. I know it will stir

I'll be there, I'll be there, with my little pick and shovel i'll be there.

Anyone who sang that song before the rebrand and now has decided not to go is a liar and hypocrite.

But fair play to him, he hasn't bought a shirt, so he's done his bit.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

I cannot 'embrace' the rebrand. I hate it. But the choice was to walk away from
Cardiff City. But why are they all 'sell-outs'? Some believe it was the ONLY way
forward for the Club they love? Admittedly we have a newer fan that isnt arsed
either way, but there are thousands of 'old time' City fans who have swallowed
it cos they never felt there was a lot of choice.

We had a chairman a few years ago who told us he'd never ever leave us in debt
and who then tried to get the Club wound up over money he never even told us
we owed. You forgave him. Are YOU not a sell-out and a scab? Many would say
you are.

We are all entitled to our opinions on here but hey, let he who is without sin cast
the first stone eh?

Calling people scabs in Wales is about as low as you can get

In fairness TA Ian didn't make a direct reference that those who have accepted the rebrand are 'scabs'

What he said was in years to come those who have accepted the rebrand would still be known as 'sell-outs' in the same way as Nottingham fans are known as scabs nearly 30 years after that historic strike.

I get what he is saying even if he has used an unfortunate way of putting his point accross.

However, if he is proved correct then how will future generations be able to tell the difference between those who attended games under protest and those who could see the benefits of VT's investment?

Unfortunatley 30 years later very little is ever spoke about the very small number of Nottingham miners who went on strike in 1984. Nottingham is associated with 'scabs' full stop but there were a small number who stuck to their principles. It will be almost impossible for those who oppose the rebrand to seem geniue to future generations if during all of that time they were still attending games, even if they didn't by merchandise.

I like Ian he is a great poster but on this issue his logic is flawed.

Nobody has stuck by their principles except TLG, everyone else is just making noise
whilst happily putting money in Tans pockets. You WONT be able to tell the difference
in future generations cos nobody has done a thing about it apart from supporting the
rebrand with their actions

You make a reasonable point or two but why can't they just be supporting Cardiff City FC by their actions??

VT et al with come and go. Hopefully, this club will outlast all of us and be there for future generations and the little taffyapples, eh?

By the same token why cant the ones who have accepted the Red be supporting Cardiff City
by THEIR actions? Dont get me wrong I'm gutted at the colour change and if the Bluebird
really does disappear from the badge then I have a difficult decision to make. But it will
be a personal one. I really find it difficult to accept that fans are allowed to support Sam
AGAINST Cardiff City, despite his misdemeanours, yet Vincent Tan is the Devil incarnate.
How exactly does that work? I dont get it. And nobody is willing to answer.

Taffyapple, my apologies if I put it accross incorrectly I was agreeing with you and just pointed out that the ones who (reluctantly or not) are being chastised by some for carrying on their support of their beloved club

With regard to your question above asking "How can people forgive Sam/Riddler, etc. and not VT?" (who I still cannot see has done too much wrong in all reality) then I think we'll all have to wait a long long time for a justifiable answer, as most of those that shout the loudest on the old Soap Box are often the ones that melt into the crowd when the REAL debates begin!!

Keep questioning, mate. I (generally) like your posts

Taffyapple, my apologies if I put it accross incorrectly I was agreeing with you and just pointed out that the ones who (reluctantly or not) are being chastised by some for carrying on their support of their beloved club

With regard to your question above asking "How can people forgive Sam/Riddler, etc. and not VT?" (who I still cannot see has done too much wrong in all reality) then I think we'll all have to wait a long long time for a justifiable answer, as most of those that shout the loudest on the old Soap Box are often the ones that melt into the crowd when the REAL debates begin!!

Keep questioning, mate. I (generally) like your posts [/quote]

Ditto Mein Freund!!!

Taffyapple, my apologies if I put it accross incorrectly I was agreeing with you and just pointed out that the ones who (reluctantly or not) are being chastised by some for carrying on their support of their beloved club

With regard to your question above asking "How can people forgive Sam/Riddler, etc. and not VT?" (who I still cannot see has done too much wrong in all reality) then I think we'll all have to wait a long long time for a justifiable answer, as most of those that shout the loudest on the old Soap Box are often the ones that melt into the crowd when the REAL debates begin!!

Keep questioning, mate. I (generally) like your posts

Ditto Mein Freund!!! [/quote]

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

You seem to be suggesting that its inevitable we will get relegated back down to the championship, i'm sure that if small clubs like Swansea can easily stay up then surely so can we. You also seem to suggest that should we get relegated "it all collapses" not sure what you mean with that comment? Promotion and its financial windfall will surely provide an avenue to finally turn the majority of any debt into equity and so a largely debt free club. Far from collapsing, this promotion can put the club on its most stable footing in it's history.

It all seemed so simple for the so-called Reluctant Reds in 2012......

Why does he call the fans the "pro-blue brigade" as if they some kind of sect?

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

You seem to be suggesting that its inevitable we will get relegated back down to the championship, i'm sure that if small clubs like Swansea can easily stay up then surely so can we. You also seem to suggest that should we get relegated "it all collapses" not sure what you mean with that comment? Promotion and its financial windfall will surely provide an avenue to finally turn the majority of any debt into equity and so a largely debt free club. Far from collapsing, this promotion can put the club on its most stable footing in it's history.

It all seemed so simple for the so-called Reluctant Reds in 2012......

Things have ended up well, haven't they? It's enough to almost make me miss Dave Jones.

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

You seem to be suggesting that its inevitable we will get relegated back down to the championship, i'm sure that if small clubs like Swansea can easily stay up then surely so can we. You also seem to suggest that should we get relegated "it all collapses" not sure what you mean with that comment? Promotion and its financial windfall will surely provide an avenue to finally turn the majority of any debt into equity and so a largely debt free club. Far from collapsing, this promotion can put the club on its most stable footing in it's history.

It all seemed so simple for the so-called Reluctant Reds in 2012......

Your right it was so simple, support the rebrand or the club dies there and then or at least that's what anyone and everyone who had a connection with the club told us, what myself and most others have slowly discovered, is that it was so much more complicated than that

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

You seem to be suggesting that its inevitable we will get relegated back down to the championship, i'm sure that if small clubs like Swansea can easily stay up then surely so can we. You also seem to suggest that should we get relegated "it all collapses" not sure what you mean with that comment? Promotion and its financial windfall will surely provide an avenue to finally turn the majority of any debt into equity and so a largely debt free club. Far from collapsing, this promotion can put the club on its most stable footing in it's history.

It all seemed so simple for the so-called Reluctant Reds in 2012......

Your right it was so simple, support the rebrand or the club dies there and then or at least that's what anyone and everyone who had a connection with the club told us, what myself and most others have slowly discovered, is that it was so much more complicated than that

Actually, it was very simple from the get-go: Anyone who wants to make drastic changes to an organisation as a condition of investing has no respect for what has gone before. Mr. Tan could have set up a media company and insisted that club members broadcast to South East Asia or get sponsorship from a dodgy loan shark firm. But NO! Just turn the colour from BLUE to red.

Nothing less than a dog marking his territory in my opinion.

What Tan doesn't get is: IN FOOTBALL, THE CUSTOMERS REGARD THEMSELVES AS INVESTORS TOO!!!

WHERE IS OUR PAYOFF??

Red seats in the new extension?
Red scarves?
The occasional personal appearance?
A half empty stadium?
A white third kit?
Huge debt, not converted to equity?
A beer mat badge?
Mid table Championship football?
Expensive tickets?

All the above plus a shite white shirt!

Ta Tan.

Or better still: Tata Tan. Byeeeeee!

Well done to The Lone Gunman for bringing this thread back. Now lets take a look at Paul Abbandonato's latest article, particularly his "My Wish for 2015" section saying he wants "A club that heals the divides and has everyone pulling in one direction". http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foot ... ws-8306097

Maybe he should have thought about that before saying he had no problem with Cardiff playing in red and helping to manipulate the fans into backing Tan's rebrand!