Actual discussion on red tops selling in Asia

Although its probably best to ignore this and continue giving our club away without even giving it a second thought, after all we are going to be massive and the biggest club in Asia and playing in the Champs league soon.

No wonder our board get shafted time after time, not a business brain between them. its embarassing, our fans I can sort of forgive. But our directors work for our club, its their job to understand these things but they clearly dont.

But hey lets all wear red, make signs and form an orderly queue to kiss Mr Tans picture being resurected as we speak in the CCS carpark

We deserve all we get.

Go on then

Give us your alternative plan.

Well first of all we must stop making a loss, we need to cut expenditure by £1 million a month. Get Whittingham, Earnie, Miller off the books which would cut it by 200k per month. With the transfer fee we get for them pay it straight off our debt meaning the repayments are smaller. Call in the players and explain the situation to them and try and get them to re-negotiate their contacts with a lower wage but with a promotion bonus exceeding any shortfall. This has been done at a few clubs and makes sense considering the players will know if they refuse then they risk getting nothing. There are many many ways to cut losses.

One is certianly not blowing all our investment on things we dont need and then going to get players commanding even bigger wages, nothing will change we will just keep making more and more losses and piling more and more debt on.

Unfortunately the problem with the sensible way is we will probably not b e challenging for promotion right away we would have to start from scratch and live within our means like Swansea, Bunley and Blackpool have done in recent years. Its a safe way forward, but as this week has shown our fans care more about the Premier League than Cardiff City.

Sell all our best players, pay all the players peanuts and still get to the premiership, Genius I don't know why every team don't do it

Perhaps Man City should do the same, they could be doing fantastic and finish fifteenth or sixteenth in the Premiership

We both agree that City cannot contunue trading the way it is you are correct.

However to counter that problem you decrease expenditure, not increase it.

As for marketing in Asia, you dont have to be an expert. Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world especially in Asia and make £3.5 million per year from Asian shirt sales (350,000 sales at 25% margin ). Im sure you understand we arent even going to be a quarter as big as that, not eve a tenth, but even if we are twice as big as Liverpool in Asia (which is laughable in the extreme but im just doing it to show my point) we would make £7 million on shirt sales and still be losing £13 million per year from our projected £20 million losses with the added wages from new players added to our current losses.

All debts will be gone with the takeover but the problems we face today will remain and be even worse regardless of Tans intentions. We will lose £20 million a year and be back in £80 million od debt in 4 years time whether we are in the Champ or Prem, it makes no difference.

THE ONLY way to save the club is to cut expenditure and build slowly. simple as that.

They haven't got Asian owners, maybe thats why the money they are making is the tip of the iceberg, we don't know do we?

He took McDonald's to Malaysia and Kentucky, I bet there were people then saying why's he bothering, we've got wok and go down the road and they aren't making much money

He's a Billionaire, if there is one thing he knows about it's making money.

Maybe he will get into TV rights or something, after he has raised his profile as a football man ???

i dont think shirt sales will recoup much if at all personally. QPR are already in with tony fernandes owner of air asia, and no doubt he's be pushing growth in asia.

there already there and have a high profile manager, players. if they stay up and get a new stadium they'll be miles ahead of us. TV money is by far and away the biggest aspect of income, 80% of many PL clubs income, merchandising sales pale into insignificance compared to the figure of £40m or so per club...

We both agree that City cannot contunue trading the way it is you are correct.

However to counter that problem you decrease expenditure, not increase it.

As for marketing in Asia, you dont have to be an expert. Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world especially in Asia and make £3.5 million per year from Asian shirt sales (350,000 sales at 25% margin ). Im sure you understand we arent even going to be a quarter as big as that, not eve a tenth, but even if we are twice as big as Liverpool in Asia (which is laughable in the extreme but im just doing it to show my point) we would make £7 million on shirt sales and still be losing £13 million per year from our projected £20 million losses with the added wages from new players added to our current losses.

All debts will be gone with the takeover but the problems we face today will remain and be even worse regardless of Tans intentions. We will lose £20 million a year and be back in £80 million od debt in 4 years time whether we are in the Champ or Prem, it makes no difference.

THE ONLY way to save the club is to cut expenditure and build slowly. simple as that.

yes in ideal world but how do you cut expenditure to accomadate 70ml debt?? love to know how can do it especially as time frame in place over langstone debt! plus only way is to cut wage bill which in reality means inferior players which in turn would mean risk relegation which in turn means lower crowds which means lower income and so forth admin is only route if vt doesnt invest and maybe liquidation as no assets to sell of note is this note true?? yes will build slowly but what would be left to build???
remember no alternative if he goes its at least admin what would you prefer??? dont think someone is going to take us over do you??

Agreed the start small and build a club approach needed to be before Sam Hammam ran up our debts, now it's too late, we have investors that can finance it.

No, the initial £100 million used to pay of Langston and the waste of exteding the ground and new training area will be converted into equity.

The monthly loss will be Cardiff City's to bare.

yes true only if vt does what he says! unless he does we owe creditors 70ml well established amount owed by us to vt sam ect off that 100ml 30 odd ml is vts so in fact he intends to put in further 70ml, like said unless he takes over with this plan we are not able to service the debts do not have enough income however we we try to balance books cutting wage bill ect ect is nowhere near enough of a saving to make payments no vt admin is only option unless get buyer???? & pigs will fly

It isnt Sams wish to see us go under, he just wants his money, which is fair enough.

If its a case of accepting £5-7 million a year then thats what he will do. We can pay half of it this season in player sales alone.

we CAN balance the books, or near enough. there is no doubt, but we wont be challenging for promotion. there is a siple way out and one in which the club survives, but everyone is blinding themselves to it because the 4 years before we go bust will be exciting. nder who they will support after that when we are gone though?

but its not only sam we owe money to is it? what about the others sorry still dont see how you can think we have enough money comeing in even after stripping team with lesser players and assuming we stay in champ its all assuptions and its not 4yrs is it what if vt doesnt want to wait for money?? then what? ok just for arguement sake we do have enough income what if pmg or vt dont want settle for monthly payouts?? then what??
also pay off half now with cash from players what about next season?? cannot sustain it for the amount time you specify!!

Of course they wont, its either accept what we can afford or we go under and they get next to nothing in terms of what we owe them. Its standard pracitice, hence why football is in such a state but there are hardly any clubs that cease to exist.

We have been idiots over the years paying millions for players and its understandable how some think to get a good oplayer you have to pay through the nose. Lets take the Jacks promotion winning team for example...

De Vries - free
Rangel - 30k
Williams - 400k
Monk - free
Tate - free

Dyer - 400k
Sinclair - 500k
Britton - free
Pratley - 100k
Allen - free

Borini - loan

£1.3 million total starting 11 cost and one of the lowest wage budgets,

If we sold Whitts, Miller, Earnie, Mason, Hudson - I thik we would get around £14 million from them, If we used £2 mill to spend on the squad..... leaving £12 million owed to Sam. any extra revenue goes to the debt. He can have the season ticket money for the next 2 seasons meaning he is paid off.

Then we have to agree with Tan, again he wants his money - he doesnt want us to go under meaning he gets nothing. We can give him the season ticket money every year plus any player sales from successful purchases, unexpected revenue like cup runs, play-offs, say £10 million a year all together. 5 years and hes paid off.

7 years time we are self sufficient and can start spending the £6.4 million season ticket money on improving the team.

ANY other option results in our liquidation agree? so there is no other option is there?

They were lucky, it clicked 99 times out of a 100 it won't and you will more likely go down than up.

You are missing the point. We wont have immediate stability, yes our current standing debts will be wiped out but we are still heading for impending doom at an alarming rate - NO MATTER WHAT SUCCESS WE HAVE OR WHAT LEAGUE WE ARE IN - thats an important point you need to realsie.

Our club will be going into £2 million a debt a month, £24 million a year, £120 million in 5 years - there is only one outcome and thats liquidation.

By the way fair play rules come in to play next year, its just we wont be punished until 3 season time.

The owners are trying to address this problem, buying good quality players like Gunnerson and Mason.

By buying our own training ground, saving a fortune in rent.

Extending the ground more capacity and income in the Premiership (if we ever get there)

i dont think shirt sales will recoup much if at all personally. QPR are already in with tony fernandes owner of air asia, and no doubt he's be pushing growth in asia.

there already there and have a high profile manager, players. if they stay up and get a new stadium they'll be miles ahead of us. TV money is by far and away the biggest aspect of income, 80% of many PL clubs income, merchandising sales pale into insignificance compared to the figure of £40m or so per club...

We're well ahead of them in terms of links with the government, grass roots football. Points most people tend to overlook or not know about.

i accidentally put save as draft instead of submit on my post, anyone know what to do please?

By buying our own training ground, saving a fortune in rent.

Extending the ground more capacity and income in the Premiership (if we ever get there)

How long until we start owing the Malaysians a fortune for the rental of their training ground?

syahmi.liew

Why is your very interesting first forum post written in another language??

I'm sure our marketing friend will put me right but part of the 1.2m were losing every month is servicing the interest on our historic debt so if VT were to payoff our debts the figure would then be what?Alot less than 1.2m.This is all suposition on my part but I thought VT's offer would make the running costs of this club more managable.If your working on the assumption that the club will still lose 1.2m after VT implements all the changes I think your mistaken and if thats the case your well out of line.
Or is his an evil Jack plot to destabilise us fans against VT.