BRITISH POLITICS QUESTION

As to the original theme of this thread...

I would never EVER have voted Tory. But Labour shat all over the Armed Forces
then sent them to war with shit kit, shit food, shit money and told us all how
much they valued the lads. So i voted Tory, who promised to back 'our boys'...
what a load of bollocks - lying cunts

I'll never vote again. Cos whoever gets in is just telling the same lies with a
different coloured tie.

As for the Human Rights debate on here?

What a load of shite

We ALL have Human Rights, we dont need some c**t in Brussels to tell us how we
should treat a fellow Human Being. The Human Rights Act should be abolished and
our social conscience will look after those deserving of protection.

Terrorists will NEVER be deported from this country because by default they all come
from Countries lacking in OUR moral values and sense of fair play...

Well tough shit!

If your a Syrian, if you commit terrorist acts in Britain and there is some salivating
torturer waiting for you back in your home Country...

Best of luck. Not our problem. You had it good here, you chose to be a c**t. Goodbye
and sorry about your fingernails/kneecaps and testicles

how do you have human rights if know one bothers to protect them
your post is filled with idiotic statements
not bothering to vote - your throwing away a right people in other countries are willing to die for
human rights act should be abolished and we should rely on social conscience - your talking tripe
social conscience is dictated by whatever is acceptable at the time
if you abolish the human rights act you dont have any human rights
if your happy to live in a world where the man with the biggest stick wins this country would have been a muslim country a long time ago
and if torture in other countries is acceptable it wont be long before its acceptable in this country
and if you think a western sense of morals will save you one of the biggest breakers of the human rights bill in modern history is America
I dont always agree with your posts but normally you do have an interesting point but this is just pure ignorance

BOLLOCKS!!!

I dont pick on any political party, they are all liars. All of them. So my choice not to
vote is not an idiotic one... i do not then come back and stick up for ANY party. As
you say, I have a right to vote or not to vote.

Human rights act?? Do one!

There was no Human Rights act in Britain up until Blair smiled the fucker in.

there was British Law. It did quite fine thank you. There were obviously glaring
mistakes, injustices, cover-ups. Happens in every Country in the World, always
will.

Torture in Britain? Of course some fuckers will have done it. But on the whole we
are a Country with pretty strong moral values and the masses will never stand for
it.

are you seriously suggesting that this f*cking act stopped a shocking moral decline
in Great Britain. How hypocritical could that possibly be???

Our Prime Minister signing up to an act because Britain cannot be trusted to do the
right thing off its own back?? Signing up, sat next to Germans, Italians, Serbians and
Croats.

Human Rights are what we all expect, and deserve to have protected. I never saw people
leaving Britain in droves before the farce (sorry, the ACT) came in. We were ok thanks.

NOW... Foreign murderers, terrorists and rapists are STAYING in droves because the
wishy washy Euro loving wankers in the Labour Party (AND the tory's on the other side
of the house) signed up to a joke

well what you expect and what you actually get are two different things
and id do your homework if i were you about human rights its not a new thing brought in by Tony Blair
Human Rights can be traced back to Renaissance Europe when the Feudal system was destroyed
and for centuries each country had there own form of rights
in 1864 it was improved with the Lieber code and the Geneva convention which opened human rights to the international community
after world war 1 the treaty of versaille created the League of Nations which made the universal declaration of human rights
after world war 2 the united nations was created and legislated international humanitarian law and international human rights law which still stand today and are the two single most important documents in the world
and its exactly the two documents that keep you as an individual safe and keeps states and governments in check
if you think your human rights are a joke a pity you i really do because your another person who doesnt realise what kind of whole your digging yourself one you will never get out of

Can you not read??

I said Blair signed up for the Human Rights ACT

I never said Human Rights are a joke, I said the Human Rights ACT is a joke

Good example... you didnt bother to read my post before slating me, it didnt
upset me, I'm ok.

But I bet i could find some clause in that ridiculous piece of legislature that proves
you violated my Human rights

As to the original theme of this thread...

I would never EVER have voted Tory. But Labour shat all over the Armed Forces
then sent them to war with shit kit, shit food, shit money and told us all how
much they valued the lads. So i voted Tory, who promised to back 'our boys'...
what a load of bollocks - lying cunts

I'll never vote again. Cos whoever gets in is just telling the same lies with a
different coloured tie.

As for the Human Rights debate on here?

What a load of shite

We ALL have Human Rights, we dont need some c**t in Brussels to tell us how we
should treat a fellow Human Being. The Human Rights Act should be abolished and
our social conscience will look after those deserving of protection.

Terrorists will NEVER be deported from this country because by default they all come
from Countries lacking in OUR moral values and sense of fair play...

Well tough shit!

If your a Syrian, if you commit terrorist acts in Britain and there is some salivating
torturer waiting for you back in your home Country...

Best of luck. Not our problem. You had it good here, you chose to be a c**t. Goodbye
and sorry about your fingernails/kneecaps and testicles

how do you have human rights if know one bothers to protect them
your post is filled with idiotic statements
not bothering to vote - your throwing away a right people in other countries are willing to die for
human rights act should be abolished and we should rely on social conscience - your talking tripe
social conscience is dictated by whatever is acceptable at the time
if you abolish the human rights act you dont have any human rights
if your happy to live in a world where the man with the biggest stick wins this country would have been a muslim country a long time ago
and if torture in other countries is acceptable it wont be long before its acceptable in this country
and if you think a western sense of morals will save you one of the biggest breakers of the human rights bill in modern history is America
I dont always agree with your posts but normally you do have an interesting point but this is just pure ignorance

BOLLOCKS!!!

I dont pick on any political party, they are all liars. All of them. So my choice not to
vote is not an idiotic one... i do not then come back and stick up for ANY party. As
you say, I have a right to vote or not to vote.

Human rights act?? Do one!

There was no Human Rights act in Britain up until Blair smiled the fucker in.

there was British Law. It did quite fine thank you. There were obviously glaring
mistakes, injustices, cover-ups. Happens in every Country in the World, always
will.

Torture in Britain? Of course some fuckers will have done it. But on the whole we
are a Country with pretty strong moral values and the masses will never stand for
it.

are you seriously suggesting that this f*cking act stopped a shocking moral decline
in Great Britain. How hypocritical could that possibly be???

Our Prime Minister signing up to an act because Britain cannot be trusted to do the
right thing off its own back?? Signing up, sat next to Germans, Italians, Serbians and
Croats.

Human Rights are what we all expect, and deserve to have protected. I never saw people
leaving Britain in droves before the farce (sorry, the ACT) came in. We were ok thanks.

NOW... Foreign murderers, terrorists and rapists are STAYING in droves because the
wishy washy Euro loving wankers in the Labour Party (AND the tory's on the other side
of the house) signed up to a joke

well what you expect and what you actually get are two different things
and id do your homework if i were you about human rights its not a new thing brought in by Tony Blair
Human Rights can be traced back to Renaissance Europe when the Feudal system was destroyed
and for centuries each country had there own form of rights
in 1864 it was improved with the Lieber code and the Geneva convention which opened human rights to the international community
after world war 1 the treaty of versaille created the League of Nations which made the universal declaration of human rights
after world war 2 the united nations was created and legislated international humanitarian law and international human rights law which still stand today and are the two single most important documents in the world
and its exactly the two documents that keep you as an individual safe and keeps states and governments in check
if you think your human rights are a joke a pity you i really do because your another person who doesnt realise what kind of whole your digging yourself one you will never get out of

Can you not read??

I said Blair signed up for the Human Rights ACT

I never said Human Rights are a joke, I said the Human Rights ACT is a joke

Good example... you didnt bother to read my post before slating me, it didnt
upset me, I'm ok.

But I bet i could find some clause in that ridiculous piece of legislature that proves
you violated my Human rights

how can you have rights without legislation protecting them because otherwise they wouldnt exist
you cant believe in human rights and denounce the legislation
as for the British Human Rights Act all it does is give you the opportunity to fight and defend your rights in British courts rather than go to Strasbourg , which make things easier
so no you dont know what you talking about you cant hate and defend the same principle
you and Midfield General seem to live in a world where everything will be ok in the end
and believe me with the atrocities that go on in this world which we all worry about
but everyone seems happy to give up all their rights so they can have the satisfaction of seeing the odd terrorist get tortured
and the government keep telling me its for my own protection
no its not
they dont really care about terrorists and that certainly isnt the main aim
all they want is to keep its citizens on a tight reign
Tony Blair took it so far now David Cameroon wants to go all the way

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

Jonny - Yure focussing on events that are extremely unlikely to happen! the only way a british govt could completely do away with our human rights would be through an act of paliament, which would then have to be verified by the House of Lords! Do you think this is likely? Do you thinka majorityof mps would vote to bring back slavery and systematic torture?

The only other way our human rights would be abolished would be if a military coup occured, again virtually unprecdedented and very very unlikely to happen! However, if by chance a military coup did occur do you think they would care if your human rights were enshrined in the HR Act??? Of course not!

Instead of focussing on things that are very unlikely to happen we should be focussing on things tht a majority of britains urgently need fixing now , the economy!!!! After that is fixed that we can tighten up HR legislation.

The one thing i agree with you on is the detention of suspected terrorists, however we are making big strides in this area. In any event, if a suspect has recieved a fair trial and is convicted then i couldnt care a less about their human rights, by murdering thousands of people they ceased to be human in my eyes and deserve everything we can throw at them. For instances such as this, backed by dna evidence, i would happily bring back the death penalty!

Jonny - Yure focussing on events that are extremely unlikely to happen! the only way a british govt could completely do away with our human rights would be through an act of paliament, which would then have to be verified by the House of Lords! Do you think this is likely? Do you thinka majorityof mps would vote to bring back slavery and systematic torture?

The only other way our human rights would be abolished would be if a military coup occured, again virtually unprecdedented and very very unlikely to happen! However, if by chance a military coup did occur do you think they would care if your human rights were enshrined in the HR Act??? Of course not!

Instead of focussing on things that are very unlikely to happen we should be focussing on things tht a majority of britains urgently need fixing now , the economy!!!! After that is fixed that we can tighten up HR legislation.

The one thing i agree with you on is the detention of suspected terrorists, however we are making big strides in this area. In any event, if a suspect has recieved a fair trial and is convicted then i couldnt care a less about their human rights, by murdering thousands of people they ceased to be human in my eyes and deserve everything we can throw at them. For instances such as this, backed by dna evidence, i would happily bring back the death penalty!

but no-one thought our civil liberties would ever be taken away from us because like you said it would have to be voted for through the commons then through the lords, but it happened, take your right to protest, you dont have one anymore if you want to protest against anything you have to ask permission off the government and if they dont like what your protesting against they will refuse you permission an abstract failure in civil liberties.
The simple matter is this Government doesnt need to tighten up on Human Rights legislation it needs to stick to the promises they made and promised to defend instead of systematically tearing them apart.

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

no i think you will find most people would because the worst thing you could ever do in life is lower your moral stand point
just because you dont agree with the what terrorists do and how they conduct themselves
doesnt give you the right to lower yourself to their level
plus its very immoral
you keep telling me how this great country knows how to conduct itself morally and we have nothing to worry about
this being the same country who allowed internment not once but twice under the view of our safety which didnt actually help anyone just locked away thousands of innocent people because they might be a terrorist they didnt have any proof mind you but they felt that accusations were enough.
I think you want to take off your rose tinted glasses off and face reality
stop listening to media and government manipulation and realise your rights are being taken away from you and relying on the statement 'well it wouldnt be the right thing to do'
I never expect to be tortured in my life time so what gives me or you the right to decide you can torture anyone else
or have you decided that Britain is far more superior than anyone else
this is a typical totalitarian attitude 'why would you have to worry you will be fine ill look after you' whilst they rob you blind
where the man with the biggest stick reigns supreme and the weaker individual just has to get on with it.
When Hitler came to power German thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and he pretty much cut the German peoples hands off where they couldnt protest against the government or they would end up in prison, so they couldnt stop their country going to war, they couldnt stop the Holocaust and had no say in how their life was run.
The last European leader to take a very similar stance was Tony Blair he erradicated our civil liberties in the name of the war against terror
so dont tell me that this country is morally superior it will do whatever keeps it strong and if that means suppressing its population it will its been doing it since 9/11 with the destruction of civil liberties and now it wants us to tear up the universal declaration of human rights and rely on its own human rights act so it can re-legislate to suit the government at the time leaving us with rights only when it suits the government

Jonny - if we are ever unlucky enough to fall victim to a military coup and have a leader like Hitler do you really believe that any human rights laws will stop them in their tracks! Your passion for human rights is admirable but you're treating them like they will solve all if the worlds ills and I can assure you that they won't!

Jonny - if we are ever unlucky enough to fall victim to a military coup and have a leader like Hitler do you really believe that any human rights laws will stop them in their tracks! Your passion for human rights is admirable but you're treating them like they will solve all if the worlds ills and I can assure you that they won't!

im not saying it will solve everything but what i cant understand is people freely wanting to give them away
what they do is try to stop single states from breaking them because the UN is honour bound to fight against people who break them
Hitler got to do what he did because he persuaded germanys population that it was in their best interests something that this government is trying to do no and has been since 2001
and if you cant see it do some homework on it
watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD4WO9xE6L0

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

no i think you will find most people would because the worst thing you could ever do in life is lower your moral stand point
just because you dont agree with the what terrorists do and how they conduct themselves
doesnt give you the right to lower yourself to their level
plus its very immoral
you keep telling me how this great country knows how to conduct itself morally and we have nothing to worry about
this being the same country who allowed internment not once but twice under the view of our safety which didnt actually help anyone just locked away thousands of innocent people because they might be a terrorist they didnt have any proof mind you but they felt that accusations were enough.
I think you want to take off your rose tinted glasses off and face reality
stop listening to media and government manipulation and realise your rights are being taken away from you and relying on the statement 'well it wouldnt be the right thing to do'
I never expect to be tortured in my life time so what gives me or you the right to decide you can torture anyone else
or have you decided that Britain is far more superior than anyone else
this is a typical totalitarian attitude 'why would you have to worry you will be fine ill look after you' whilst they rob you blind
where the man with the biggest stick reigns supreme and the weaker individual just has to get on with it.
When Hitler came to power German thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and he pretty much cut the German peoples hands off where they couldnt protest against the government or they would end up in prison, so they couldnt stop their country going to war, they couldnt stop the Holocaust and had no say in how their life was run.
The last European leader to take a very similar stance was Tony Blair he erradicated our civil liberties in the name of the war against terror
so dont tell me that this country is morally superior it will do whatever keeps it strong and if that means suppressing its population it will its been doing it since 9/11 with the destruction of civil liberties and now it wants us to tear up the universal declaration of human rights and rely on its own human rights act so it can re-legislate to suit the government at the time leaving us with rights only when it suits the government

Do you think its a Human Right to stand up or sit down whenever we feel like?

Do you think its a Human Right to pay money to watch a football match but
pop next door at half-time for a bite to eat?

Without going into paragraphs of bollocks (which we both have)

How do you feel about the rights of the individual at a Football match.

Cheers

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

no i think you will find most people would because the worst thing you could ever do in life is lower your moral stand point
just because you dont agree with the what terrorists do and how they conduct themselves
doesnt give you the right to lower yourself to their level
plus its very immoral
you keep telling me how this great country knows how to conduct itself morally and we have nothing to worry about
this being the same country who allowed internment not once but twice under the view of our safety which didnt actually help anyone just locked away thousands of innocent people because they might be a terrorist they didnt have any proof mind you but they felt that accusations were enough.
I think you want to take off your rose tinted glasses off and face reality
stop listening to media and government manipulation and realise your rights are being taken away from you and relying on the statement 'well it wouldnt be the right thing to do'
I never expect to be tortured in my life time so what gives me or you the right to decide you can torture anyone else
or have you decided that Britain is far more superior than anyone else
this is a typical totalitarian attitude 'why would you have to worry you will be fine ill look after you' whilst they rob you blind
where the man with the biggest stick reigns supreme and the weaker individual just has to get on with it.
When Hitler came to power German thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and he pretty much cut the German peoples hands off where they couldnt protest against the government or they would end up in prison, so they couldnt stop their country going to war, they couldnt stop the Holocaust and had no say in how their life was run.
The last European leader to take a very similar stance was Tony Blair he erradicated our civil liberties in the name of the war against terror
so dont tell me that this country is morally superior it will do whatever keeps it strong and if that means suppressing its population it will its been doing it since 9/11 with the destruction of civil liberties and now it wants us to tear up the universal declaration of human rights and rely on its own human rights act so it can re-legislate to suit the government at the time leaving us with rights only when it suits the government

Do you think its a Human Right to stand up or sit down whenever we feel like?

Do you think its a Human Right to pay money to watch a football match but
pop next door at half-time for a bite to eat?

Without going into paragraphs of bollocks (which we both have)

How do you feel about the rights of the individual at a Football match.

Cheers

and there we go congratulations mr taffyapple
because you cant debate with me properly you just remind everyone that im a steward
and throw a ridiculous argument to try and discredit me and turn the argument in your favour
congratulations youve shown how idiotic you are once again
and for the record civil liberties disappeared from football a long time ago and slowly but surely they are returning
and though you do keep ignoring it i dont agree with alot of what happens during matches and i always put my 2 pence piece in about it
but im just a dirty steward arent i mr taffyapple who isnt aloud an opinion because you dont think i deserve one

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

no i think you will find most people would because the worst thing you could ever do in life is lower your moral stand point
just because you dont agree with the what terrorists do and how they conduct themselves
doesnt give you the right to lower yourself to their level
plus its very immoral
you keep telling me how this great country knows how to conduct itself morally and we have nothing to worry about
this being the same country who allowed internment not once but twice under the view of our safety which didnt actually help anyone just locked away thousands of innocent people because they might be a terrorist they didnt have any proof mind you but they felt that accusations were enough.
I think you want to take off your rose tinted glasses off and face reality
stop listening to media and government manipulation and realise your rights are being taken away from you and relying on the statement 'well it wouldnt be the right thing to do'
I never expect to be tortured in my life time so what gives me or you the right to decide you can torture anyone else
or have you decided that Britain is far more superior than anyone else
this is a typical totalitarian attitude 'why would you have to worry you will be fine ill look after you' whilst they rob you blind
where the man with the biggest stick reigns supreme and the weaker individual just has to get on with it.
When Hitler came to power German thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and he pretty much cut the German peoples hands off where they couldnt protest against the government or they would end up in prison, so they couldnt stop their country going to war, they couldnt stop the Holocaust and had no say in how their life was run.
The last European leader to take a very similar stance was Tony Blair he erradicated our civil liberties in the name of the war against terror
so dont tell me that this country is morally superior it will do whatever keeps it strong and if that means suppressing its population it will its been doing it since 9/11 with the destruction of civil liberties and now it wants us to tear up the universal declaration of human rights and rely on its own human rights act so it can re-legislate to suit the government at the time leaving us with rights only when it suits the government

Do you think its a Human Right to stand up or sit down whenever we feel like?

Do you think its a Human Right to pay money to watch a football match but
pop next door at half-time for a bite to eat?

Without going into paragraphs of bollocks (which we both have)

How do you feel about the rights of the individual at a Football match.

Cheers

and there we go congratulations mr taffyapple
because you cant debate with me properly you just remind everyone that im a steward
and throw a ridiculous argument to try and discredit me and turn the argument in your favour
congratulations youve shown how idiotic you are once again
and for the record civil liberties disappeared from football a long time ago and slowly but surely they are returning
and though you do keep ignoring it i dont agree with alot of what happens during matches and i always put my 2 pence piece in about it
but im just a dirty steward arent i mr taffyapple who isnt aloud an opinion because you dont think i deserve one

Dont swerve it.

I never said you were a dirty steward

answer it.

because in MY opinion, your "I dont agree with a lot of what happens in matches!"

is not a world away from what the camp guards at Auchwitz said...

"I just emptied the train"

Your guilty by association, surely? or am i breaching your Human Rights by
suggesting as much?

Johnny - As I said before, i do believe that human rights are important but the human rights act in its current form is a shambles and is in need of urgent reform. Some of your comments in support of the hr act are bordering on the ridiculous! These are just a few of your comments throughout this thread that I have to take issue with.

1. “to answer your question no i believe terrorists should be thrown out of our country as long as certain criteria are met:
1 it does not risk their human rights….if sending them to their country of origin will breach their human rights they can sit in one of our prisons for the rest of their natural lives.”

How can it be right that a terrorist who willingly killed thousands of people should not face justice in their own country? If they have willingly broken the law then they know the consequences. The British tax payer should not be paying for someone to spend their life in jail in this country if they are not a British national. If they broke our laws then we should ship them out. If the country we ship them to breahces their human rights then so be it. If they could show no mercy to their victims then why should they expect mercy from us? By continuing to molly coddle these maniacs we encourage them to continue. They are violent people who only respect violent punishments!

2. “without human rights you could steal a bag of crisps from tescos
the police will arrest you torture you to within an inch of your life until you plead guilty to whatever crime they choose
and there is nothing you could do about it”

We are protected from such acts by a variety of legislation in this country all ready without the need of the Human Rights Act! I certainly dont remember things like this happening in this country before the act came into power.

3. is take every penny off every citizen in your country and reduce the defecit
if you refuse to give your money to the government they will throw you in prison
if you still refuse they will torture you
if you still refuse they will put your wife and kids in prison and torture them”

do you seriously think this is eveyr likely to happen in th UK? Do you not think there are a multitude of laws that would prevent this ever happening in any event?

4. “recessions and booms come and go
but once you lose your rights you lose them forever and will never get them back and without them this country will be thrown back to the dark ages and before Magna Carta
there is nothing more important than your human rights and citizens should be ever vigilant to ensure the state doesnt destroy them”

Before the HR Act came into power in 1998 I certainly dont remember this country being in the dark ages. In fact the British justice system seemed to be doing quite well without the EU interferring.

5. “you wouldnt have a job or have money without human rights
the right to life
freedom from slavery
right to a fair trial
freedom of speech
freedom of thought, conscience and religion
without these your nothing
you cease to exist”

I find this statement incredible. Before the human rights act we had jobs, money, freedom from slavery etc etc and we existed pretty well. Again, we already have thousands of laws enshrined in this country that give us these rights anyway!


All in all you are grossly exagerating the need for the human rights act and are scaremongering. Certainly in the last century this country did not toture people or enslave them before the act came into being. Our rights were quite well protected, in fact we were actually better off as the Human Rights Act has allowed thousands of criminals and terrorists to avoid justice due to their 'right to family' life being breached if they were to be deported!!! What about the families lives that they ruined through their acts???

You are of course entitiled to your opinion but some of your comments re these issues amaze me. You seem to side more with the criminals than the victims and believe that the human rights act can cure all ills, including our broken economy!!!!! The Uk had one of the finest justice systems in the world before the hr act came into power, we survived quite nicely without out it and I dare say that if we were to reform or abolish it then we would survive.

Yes the human rights act came in 1998 but its an act in conjunction with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
this started by Midfield General wanting to opt out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rely on the British Human Rights Act to me this is dangerous because the government can re-legislate to suit their means as Tony Blair did with our Civil Liberties.
Ok I may have gone to the extreme but without universal legislation its possible and thats a risk im not willing to take
Allow me to explain my points youve pointed out
1 with regards to terrorists I wholly believe their human rights should be protected because I wholly believe my human rights should be protected, if you can take one persons human rights off them you can take them off anyone and that cant happen.
2 without human rights they can do what they want to you
and if you cant remember i do
The government started this very well with internment over alleged terrorists being held without charge and they kept increasing it and increasing until thank God the 90 day rule got refused in Parliament, but the Government got round that and put them under house arrest, this is disgusting this government just stuck a label on people regardless of them being guilty or not and locked them away, where is that right and what stops them doing it to you
Plus lets not forget the 100's of people this country deported to America without a trial in this country so they can sit in Guantanamo Bay to be tortured and no there was no proof they were terrorists either America just clicked its fingers and off they went
Where was there human rights then.
3 ok unlikely that this will happen but without human rights what would stop them
4 hopefully it will never happen but you open yourself to the possibility
5 incredible yes thats the scary thing about it, without protection against slavery the government can put you to work and not pay you take your wages off you this is very common in North Korea where the population work and their wages are given directly to the government, if one government can do it so can this one.

This is where most people would disagree with you.

If another 'Human' decides to blow an aircraft out of the sky, or decides he wants to blow himself
up in a school playground, killing hundreds of innocent children along with himself. In MY view...
He gives up the right to be treated like other humans.

Guess what...Long before some Germans/Serbs/Bosnians sat down around a table and decided
to write out HOW we should protect our own people from torture and atrocities...

We already knew!!

no i think you will find most people would because the worst thing you could ever do in life is lower your moral stand point
just because you dont agree with the what terrorists do and how they conduct themselves
doesnt give you the right to lower yourself to their level
plus its very immoral
you keep telling me how this great country knows how to conduct itself morally and we have nothing to worry about
this being the same country who allowed internment not once but twice under the view of our safety which didnt actually help anyone just locked away thousands of innocent people because they might be a terrorist they didnt have any proof mind you but they felt that accusations were enough.
I think you want to take off your rose tinted glasses off and face reality
stop listening to media and government manipulation and realise your rights are being taken away from you and relying on the statement 'well it wouldnt be the right thing to do'
I never expect to be tortured in my life time so what gives me or you the right to decide you can torture anyone else
or have you decided that Britain is far more superior than anyone else
this is a typical totalitarian attitude 'why would you have to worry you will be fine ill look after you' whilst they rob you blind
where the man with the biggest stick reigns supreme and the weaker individual just has to get on with it.
When Hitler came to power German thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and he pretty much cut the German peoples hands off where they couldnt protest against the government or they would end up in prison, so they couldnt stop their country going to war, they couldnt stop the Holocaust and had no say in how their life was run.
The last European leader to take a very similar stance was Tony Blair he erradicated our civil liberties in the name of the war against terror
so dont tell me that this country is morally superior it will do whatever keeps it strong and if that means suppressing its population it will its been doing it since 9/11 with the destruction of civil liberties and now it wants us to tear up the universal declaration of human rights and rely on its own human rights act so it can re-legislate to suit the government at the time leaving us with rights only when it suits the government

Do you think its a Human Right to stand up or sit down whenever we feel like?

Do you think its a Human Right to pay money to watch a football match but
pop next door at half-time for a bite to eat?

Without going into paragraphs of bollocks (which we both have)

How do you feel about the rights of the individual at a Football match.

Cheers

and there we go congratulations mr taffyapple
because you cant debate with me properly you just remind everyone that im a steward
and throw a ridiculous argument to try and discredit me and turn the argument in your favour
congratulations youve shown how idiotic you are once again
and for the record civil liberties disappeared from football a long time ago and slowly but surely they are returning
and though you do keep ignoring it i dont agree with alot of what happens during matches and i always put my 2 pence piece in about it
but im just a dirty steward arent i mr taffyapple who isnt aloud an opinion because you dont think i deserve one

Dont swerve it.

I never said you were a dirty steward

answer it.

because in MY opinion, your "I dont agree with a lot of what happens in matches!"

is not a world away from what the camp guards at Auchwitz said...

"I just emptied the train"

Your guilty by association, surely? or am i breaching your Human Rights by
suggesting as much?[/quote]

no
i wont answer for several reasons
1 its got nothing to do with this debate
2 im agreeing with you but your attempt to make me look stupid youve ignored that and made yourself look stupid
3 describing me as a camp guard in AUSCHWITZ if your going to use it at least spell it right is pathetic
4 there is a process i could refuse to work but i dont think thats going to change anything but what i can do is try and change things from the inside i may be successful or i may fail spectacularly but at least im trying what are you doing other than constantly attacking me for no good reason