Carl Curtis reference Dave Jones

Sorry Claude &Carl here we go again, just in case you missed it,

whilst watching the cricket maybe you could field some attributes in relation to the original question.

Here it is again , what attributes does Dave Jones have as a football manager? In my opinion it's a simple question.

Success in the transfer market, particularly "bargain basement."

Ability to provide year on year improvement to his sides league position.

Accepting and dealing with the fact that, until recently, he had to sell his best players every summer.

Ability to manage so-called "difficult" players.

Managing a team playing in a delapidated stadium with no training facilities to speak of (again, until recently)

Ability to work with egomaniacs such as Hammam and Ridsdale.

Widely respected throughout the game. You don't have that by being a bad manager.

Ability to attract better players to the club. If he's as bad as you say he is, why would any player come here?

There's more of course but I'm ensconced in the cricket now

Gunter was treated dreadfully by Jones, yes I would have him back , especially at present.

Sir Alex knows everything that goes on within his Club and outside it too.

Jones doesn't have experienced staff , he has old pals.

Ah you include the inexperienced Terry Burton in this do you???????

You know the bloke who has only been a coach for 31 years!!!!1

Or Paul Wilkinson who has 10 years experience[

Wilkinson experience ? What experience is that then?

Reserve team manager at Leeds then youth team coach a Grimsby.

And incidentally both Burton and Wilkinson were brought to the club by Lennie Lawrence

Sorry Claude &Carl here we go again, just in case you missed it,

whilst watching the cricket maybe you could field some attributes in relation to the original question.

Here it is again , what attributes does Dave Jones have as a football manager? In my opinion it's a simple question.

Success in the transfer market, particularly "bargain basement." At last we have one, I'll give you that one, many havent worked too but yes he has done well in a few.

Ability to provide year on year improvement to his sides league position. slightly but failure each time for good progression in relation to monies spent.

Accepting and dealing with the fact that, until recently, he had to sell his best players every summer. Every Championship Manager has to do so all par to the course for all Managers.

Ability to manage so-called "difficult" players. No sign of that

Managing a team playing in a delapidated stadium with no training facilities to speak of (again, until recently) The Ninian Pitch was better than the CCS one , training facilities have been there under most his reign.

Ability to work with egomaniacs such as Hammam and Ridsdale. All Chairmen in the main are, out of those two , one gave him a chance whilst nobody wanted him, the other gave a massive 800k a year rolling contract and a 2 million promotion bonus, at the same time both gave large funding for players too. Not too hard to work with!

Widely respected throughout the game. You don't have that by being a bad manager. says who?

Ability to attract better players to the club. If he's as bad as you say he is, why would any player come here? Money, the list is endless. They come for the high wages offered.

There's more of course but I'm ensconced in the cricket now

enjoy because you haven't listed many yet!

And your peurile attempt to reply to my post shows just how desperate you are!!!

One simple reply to you.

Do you not accept that Bothroyd was regarded as a "difficult" player?

Sorry Claude &Carl here we go again, just in case you missed it,

whilst watching the cricket maybe you could field some attributes in relation to the original question.

Here it is again , what attributes does Dave Jones have as a football manager? In my opinion it's a simple question.

Success in the transfer market, particularly "bargain basement."
Eddie Johnson/Jason Koumas/Robbie Fowler.. there's about £5mil in wages alone
wasted!. Taiwo, Etuhu, Naylor,.. Remember, we got about £10mil in transfer fees
for Gunter, Ramsey and Earnie... They were here before Jones

Ability to provide year on year improvement to his sides league position.
Admittedly so

Accepting and dealing with the fact that, until recently, he had to sell his best players every summer.
This is the Championship, ALL the best players get sold if they've made an impression, all managers
have to cope with it

Ability to manage so-called "difficult" players.
For Bothroyd.. see Koumas/Johnson/Fowler etc etc

Managing a team playing in a delapidated stadium with no training facilities to speak of (again, until recently)
The pitch was tip top at NP, always was

Ability to work with egomaniacs such as Hammam and Ridsdale.
All club Chairmen are generally full of it. But Ridsdale and Jones got their heads
together and done themselves tidy little deals

Widely respected throughout the game. You don't have that by being a bad manager.
Who has come in for him?

Ability to attract better players to the club. If he's as bad as you say he is, why would any player come here?
Its precisely some of the ridiculous wages paid out that have added to the clubs financial woes

There's more of course but I'm ensconced in the cricket now

Sad

And your peurile attempt to reply to my post shows just how desperate you are!!!

One simple reply to you.

Do you not accept that Bothroyd was regarded as a "difficult" player?

It wasn't an attempt , it raised points to your claims.

In relation to your question who regarded him as a difficult player? The player in question has always had the skill and never proved difficult just maybe lacked desire and at previous clubs Managers had far more options than to try their patience on one player . The player in question simply knew himself he was in the last chance saloon and applied himself to the point he may shortly depart now he has reastablished himself, hence the refusal to sign a new contract, if the player himself thought his performances simply came about because of Jones why does he not sign a new contract with said Manager? Does the said Manager not have the attributes for contractual negotiation , clearly not after watching the Ledley fiasco in my opinion.

So Jones' attributes as a football manager have had no effect on turning Bothroyd into the player he is today?

Are you so desperate to be seen to be correct that you deny the obvious?

And you blame Jones for Ledleys departure!!! Ok, you're the manager - what would you have done?

Sorry Claude &Carl here we go again, just in case you missed it,

whilst watching the cricket maybe you could field some attributes in relation to the original question.

Here it is again , what attributes does Dave Jones have as a football manager? In my opinion it's a simple question.

Success in the transfer market, particularly "bargain basement."
Eddie Johnson/Jason Koumas/Robbie Fowler.. there's about £5mil in wages alone
wasted!. Taiwo, Etuhu, Naylor,.. Remember, we got about £10mil in transfer fees
for Gunter, Ramsey and Earnie... They were here before Jones

Ability to provide year on year improvement to his sides league position.
Admittedly so

Accepting and dealing with the fact that, until recently, he had to sell his best players every summer.
This is the Championship, ALL the best players get sold if they've made an impression, all managers
have to cope with it

Ability to manage so-called "difficult" players.
For Bothroyd.. see Koumas/Johnson/Fowler etc etc

Managing a team playing in a delapidated stadium with no training facilities to speak of (again, until recently)
The pitch was tip top at NP, always was

Ability to work with egomaniacs such as Hammam and Ridsdale.
All club Chairmen are generally full of it. But Ridsdale and Jones got their heads
together and done themselves tidy little deals

Widely respected throughout the game. You don't have that by being a bad manager.
Who has come in for him?

Ability to attract better players to the club. If he's as bad as you say he is, why would any player come here?
Its precisely some of the ridiculous wages paid out that have added to the clubs financial woes

There's more of course but I'm ensconced in the cricket now

Sad

Isn't the second point, which you accept as true, the ultimate prerequisite for a succesful football manager?

And yet you believe, like the OP, that Dave Jones has no abilities as a football manager!!!

It really beggers belief.

rather easy question that one Claude.

I would not have taken on Eddie Johnson on a season long deal paying hiss full wages of 20k a week, allowing me to ensure that Ledley was paid his worth on a new contract that would have satisfied the player and his agent.

At the same time I would not have paid nearly a million and 14k a week to a player of Hudsons ability , whilst leaving far better quality current players on a pittance of a comparable wage totally demoralising the player with the far better ability , then I would not have had to sign another midfield expensive flop on loan in the name of Koumas .

And you'll have done all of that without the benefit of hindsight?!!!!

You obviously knew that Johnson was going to be a flop before he joined us?

And that Koumas would also be a failure?

You're clearly a football genius. Have Man. U. been in touch to ask you to replace Sir Alex when he retires?!!

Or will you be honest and admit you are basing your opinion (and yours only!!!) with the benefit of hindsight?

Nothing to do with hindsight. Just the correct attributes . The same attributes I would have applied in actually watching Eddie Johnson play before agreeing to pay him 20k a week.

In the case of Ledley it would be called good man management in keeping a local player raised by the Club feel wanted , an attribute Jones clearly didn't have , not hindsight, common Management sense .

Johnson was an obvious flop, Koumas too this time round .

In other words, hindsight.

Ledley would have gone regardless of contract. He wanted top class football. With no Premiership clubs coming in for him he opted for the dead zone that is Scotland. Wrong choice apart from his bank balance. The only way he would have stayed is if we'd been promoted last season.

Now he's rotting in the SPL and his home town club will be playing in the EPL next August.

Jones offered Ledley the contract he thought he was worth. Ledley and his agent got greedy. Ultimately his loss, although I'd have loved to have seen him carry on for us this season.

Why you blame Jones is completly incomprehensible.

Goodnight Claude , thank you for putting up your thought regards Jones than Carl Curtis, a very enjoyable dialogue with you via this wonderful forum, I hope you remain on here and don't lower your standards and return to CCMB .

In other words, hindsight.

Ledley would have gone regardless of contract. He wanted top class football. With no Premiership clubs coming in for him he opted for the dead zone that is Scotland. Wrong choice apart from his bank balance. The only way he would have stayed is if we'd been promoted last season.

Now he's rotting in the SPL and his home town club will be playing in the EPL next August.

Jones offered Ledley the contract he thought he was worth. Ledley and his agent got greedy. Ultimately his loss, although I'd have loved to have seen him carry on for us this season.

Why you blame Jones is completly incomprehensible.

Poppy Cock. Get some sleep.

Claude, youre pathetic...stop before its too late, you already lost an argument a while ago and now just making fool of yourself. theres NO way anyone can defend DJ

Sorry Claude &Carl here we go again, just in case you missed it,

whilst watching the cricket maybe you could field some attributes in relation to the original question.

Here it is again , what attributes does Dave Jones have as a football manager? In my opinion it's a simple question.

Success in the transfer market, particularly "bargain basement."
Eddie Johnson/Jason Koumas/Robbie Fowler.. there's about £5mil in wages alone
wasted!. Taiwo, Etuhu, Naylor,.. Remember, we got about £10mil in transfer fees
for Gunter, Ramsey and Earnie... They were here before Jones

Ability to provide year on year improvement to his sides league position.
Admittedly so

Accepting and dealing with the fact that, until recently, he had to sell his best players every summer.
This is the Championship, ALL the best players get sold if they've made an impression, all managers
have to cope with it

Ability to manage so-called "difficult" players.
For Bothroyd.. see Koumas/Johnson/Fowler etc etc

Managing a team playing in a delapidated stadium with no training facilities to speak of (again, until recently)
The pitch was tip top at NP, always was

Ability to work with egomaniacs such as Hammam and Ridsdale.
All club Chairmen are generally full of it. But Ridsdale and Jones got their heads
together and done themselves tidy little deals

Widely respected throughout the game. You don't have that by being a bad manager.
Who has come in for him?

Ability to attract better players to the club. If he's as bad as you say he is, why would any player come here?
Its precisely some of the ridiculous wages paid out that have added to the clubs financial woes

There's more of course but I'm ensconced in the cricket now

Sad

Isn't the second point, which you accept as true, the ultimate prerequisite for a succesful football manager?

And yet you believe, like the OP, that Dave Jones has no abilities as a football manager!!!

It really beggers belief.[/quote]

The ultimate prerequisite for a football manager is to WIN things. I would never deny he has
overall done a steady job here. But as incredible as it may seem to Dave Jones, he is no longer
bigger than this club. He obviously has ability as a football manager, he's been in the trade for
twenty years. But had i been a chef for twenty years you'd expect me to be able to cook beans
on toast or an omelette. That wouldnt mean I'd be good enough for a job in a top London
restaurant though. This Clubs ambition is now greater than David Jones' abilities.

I think Jay Bothroyds resurgence as a footballer is as much to do with him finally realising he
was at the last chance saloon than anything Jones has done. Else why has Jason Koumas been
so disappointing, why didn't he turn Eddie Johnson into a razor sharp deadly finisher, how
come the wonderkid Aaron Ramsey was playing European Football for Arsenal in the middle of
midfield when he "wasnt strong enough" to play for Cardiff City!!

We all have opinions, you put yours across with so much arrogance that your either on a wind-up
or you are cut from the same kind of cloth as our manager

This is a hell of a good debate and to me proves that Dave Jones attributes as a manager are thin on the ground but his shortcomings are as long as the arm of the Jolly Green Giant. It's no secret he's not my cup of tea, never has been and never will. He has far too high an opinion of himself for an ordinary Joe manager who has never really won anything of any significance in football. In my view he is an overpaid underachiever.

Nothing to do with hindsight. Just the correct attributes . The same attributes I would have applied in actually watching Eddie Johnson play before agreeing to pay him 20k a week.

In the case of Ledley it would be called good man management in keeping a local player raised by the Club feel wanted , an attribute Jones clearly didn't have , not hindsight, common Management sense .

One day the truth will come out about johnson.
ridsdale was approached by an agent and told he could bring an american world cup striker to the club for 18k a week.
the then chairman and manager thought they were getting another world cup striker who recently had a loan spell with everton.
sounds ridiculous i know but it is in fact true

best squad in the league???

i can assure you we don' t have this squad
we have a decent starting 11 with no quality on the bench

todays line up proves we have weakness

our back four is very poor

hence why DJ wants to imporve it

hardly call blake/ hudson/ mcnaughton and naylor a quality back four capable of gettin us into premier league this has proven from our recent poor results

we all know we can score goals as we have the claibre going forward but you have to be able to shut out opposition and we can't do that

before this season we had a squad only capable of mid table in my opinion, DJ has brought in some good players on loan but most have been dissapointing

there are stronger teams in this league than us hull/ burnely/ qpr and others but they have poor manager also burnley should be up top end of table but brian laws is useless

there is so much negativity on this forum the topic every day seems to be is DJ good enough/ will he get us promoted/ we have the best team in the league etc etc
its all bullshit!!

BACK THE TEAM BACK THE MANAGER THE BOARD AND THE BACKROOM STAFF WE ARE ALL IN IT TOGETHER!!!
EASY TO CRITISICE SO INSTEAD MAKE SOME NOISE AND SUPPORT THE BOYS!!!!!!!!

And you'll have done all of that without the benefit of hindsight?!!!!

You obviously knew that Johnson was going to be a flop before he joined us?

How mny goals had he scored wihilat at Fulham - including in reserves - before joioning us?

A big fat zero by any chance?

Yup, even you could conclude it was a risk bringing him in.

And that Koumas would also be a failure?

People wanked over Koumas believing he was the same player as 5 years ago. The evidence has been pretty apparent in his Prem performances.

hella of a read.

He brings stability, he keeps a regular side, he does not make knee jerk reactions. He also brings in players who have had difficulties elsewhere and brings out the best in them. Overall we are lucky to have a manager with such qualities.

There are alot better managers out there who would bring us all that. Managers who would not cost so much either.

Holloway is only on something like half of Jones' wages.

He brings stability, he keeps a regular side, he does not make knee jerk reactions. He also brings in players who have had difficulties elsewhere and brings out the best in them. Overall we are lucky to have a manager with such qualities.

There are alot better managers out there who would bring us all that. Managers who would not cost so much either.

Holloway is only on something like half of Jones' wages.

And Warnock.

good thread leaving plenty of thought, see claude missing tonite

good thread leaving plenty of thought, see claude missing tonite

Nope, still here just busy with important matters of state.

Carl and a couple of other less cerebrally challenged posters are continuing to spread the word of reason and common sense during this difficult period for all of us.

Carls use of Kipling was an act of genius and I salute the man

Carls use of Kipling was an act of genius and I salute the man


Kipling this Kipling that, Who is this player, left back or center half ?????