JONSEY DESERVES CREDIT

fair points but heres mine were top of the league and thats why i think no one could do any better than dave jones at this point!!after all went on with ridsdale an all the rest of the nonsense dave jones i believe has been excellent throughout in keeping the players going all with no money to spend we last spent money on a player transfer over 18 months ago i believe!!
changing manager at this point in time would be delusional in my opinion!![/quote]

I agree the last thing we need to do is change manager at the moment but the question asked was who could realistically replace DJ at the moment and I offered AP as a realistic alternative.

Let me ask you another question if we were to fail this season what would be 3 possible reasons.

I respect what Dave Jones has achieved at our club but I really don't like him and it's the these things which I think would not be missed at our club when he leaves.

Firstly it's his stubborn my way or the highway attitude and that one of the main reasons why he struggles when he needs to change things during a game. His record throughtout his career, and not just at Cardiff, of struggling to win games when his team goes behind is one of the biggest concerns. In fairness the flipside of that is his record when his teams score first is very good but then again thats the same with any decent manager.

But to be a top manager you must have the ability to influence games from the sidelines either by changing tactics or motivating your team. It's difficult for anyone to argue that his plan A doesn't work but does he have a plan B ? and can he transmit that to his team on the pitch.

Another concern for me is his "Do as I say and not as I do" attitude with the perfect example being in the last two weeks where when he was asked about the derby game he said "I don't like derby games I didn't like them as a player and I don't like them as a manager because of all the crap that goes with losing".

When you so clearl struggle to motivate yourself for such games it's little wonder that your team under performs in the game. His answer is then to go say "The local media are fools and buffoons who have no idea not a clue about what their writing about, I never said I didn't like playing in derby games these guy need to keep to the facts".

In my opinion this is a major flaw in his management his serious lack of interpersonal skills as it is vital within his role that he has good communication skills, he hasn't and it should be a huge concern to everyone.

Also in the last 2 weeks he was asked by Rob Phillips if he had talked to Jay about the silly bookings he was getting his reply was "What said in the dressing room remains in the dressing room at this football club". I wonder what Gabor Gypes and Adam Matthews think about that as DJ has laid waste to both of them this season. It happened again yesterday when Chopra gave the ball away cheaply and Scunthorpe went straight upfield and scored. DJ we gave the ball away cheaply in midfield and we must stop doing that. Does this different treatment of players amount to protecting his favourites, no talking about molly coddling players yesterday, I think it does and in man management terms this is a cardinel sin. You must treat everyone firmly, fairly and above all consistently. DJ doesn't and this is a big concern to me and should be to anyone who want's the best for our football club.

But my biggest concern about him is he lack of respect for this part of the world, for the people who live here and earn their living here. For our football club it's history and traditions. DJ has not respect for anything about our football club before he arrived and he constantly has a dig about it whenever he has a chance.

We have a new ground a state of the art training ground and he has been given the biggest budget in the history of our club to put together a squad capable of winning promotion to the PL. But for all the riches he team is still capable of putiing in performances like they did in the derby.

You can pay the biggest salaries in world football, have the best training facilities possible and the greatest stadium in the world but if cannot get yourself motivated for a big game BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE THE CRAP THAT GOES WITH LOSING it's a problem.

This should be a time when he should be adored by the Cardiff fans but he isn't, and thats a fact, most all fans if their being honest will have a doubt if we are going to see it through this season. Look at our squad and ask yourself why what are the 3 top reasons that you think we will not make it again this season.

I bet DJ would be in the top 3 of the majority of you who would think about it, yes credit the man for everything he does, everything he has achieved and continues to achieve. But if we fail again he must also expect to be held responsible and I for one will do just that.

First of all, his stubbon my way attitude shows hes the manager and in charge, lets be honest, the players and manager are the most important part of the clubs success as they do the buisness on the field and i have NEVER seen a player criticise Dave Jones, in fact hes one of the most respected in the game. His stubbon my way on the highway shows hes in charge, hes the boss, he makes the decisions and thats the way it should be.its from his ways and stubboness that Cardiff have developed every season and developed one of the best squads in our history.

As for his stubboness is the reason why he fails to change games when we are struggling?? What nonsense. There have been hundreads of times when DJ's team has come back to win games, and Cardiff this season have dramatically improved in that area. On top of being top of the championship and the second highest scorers in the league. Does DJ have a plan B? Yes he does thats why when we have been drawing in and loosing in then past we have gone on to win games. It must be noted though that EVERY manager has weaknesses, does this make them a bad manager? NO. DJ's rein and not his record speaks for itself. Some fans on this forum think we have a devine right to be promoted and be the best in europe because we got a decent team??? It doesnt work like that. This is the championship, a very very difficult league where anybody can beat anybody. Were you criticising DJ when we hammered Bristol City 0-6 on their own patch? when we beat the jacks 2-1 last season, when we got to an FA Cup final, All of the good points Cardiff have achieved under DJ have been under difficult circumstances. His plans to move forward have been ripped apart on several occassions during his rein as players have been sold due to the financial mess people have left this club in.

As for DJ not liking derby games, you cant blame him. He knows how intense Cardiff V Swansea is and you could see how upset he was after the match. he does care about this club and for what its worth he does care about the welsh national team often going to watch them with his family. he also refers to how if cardiff get promoted he will be taking a nation forward. Just because sometimes hes forced to refer to the huge different standards between England and Wales in football does not mean hes being disrespectful to this part of the world, hes just stating facts.

As for our team putting in a performance like they did against swansea with "all our riches?>".... WE DONT HAVE A DEVINE RIGHT to beat Swansea... Our team were below par but this happens in football..it happens to man united-remember when they lost 4-0 to manchester city in the derby a few seasons ago, does that make fergie a bad manager who cant motivate his players for a derby. And You should look at previous managers records against swansea because prior to our april against the jacks we had not beaten them in the league at home for 13 years???... Every club has a bogey team!

As for naming persons publically, why shouldnt he??/ When players who are on thousands and thousands a week they should face criticism and if they are any good they will learn from it. Are you saying its alright for the fans to criticise players and not the manager? dont be stupid. If i made a big mistake in work which was a big deal i would have a row off my manager, the same elsewhere as footballers are in the public eye, they should be subject to criticism. The thing is DJ should NOT have to take the blame for individual player errors when hes worked his socks off in training going over game plans and training his team. Some managers will protect their players, some managers dont. Theres no right or wrong when it comes to this subject. The same is with being a miserable sod with the press...theres no right or wrong with this..doesnt make him a bad manager if hes miserable at times. I find him quite funny at times. On too many occassions have reporters said stupid questions to DJ and with all the nonsense DJ put up with when he was going through criminal proceedings i dont blame the bloke for being a bit weary of the press. I think he speaks very very well with the press. DJ also criticised Jay bothroyd publically last season and look where Jay is now.England call up and top goal scorer in the league. DJ is a passionate manager who doesnt show it publically, i know this by speaking to people who have met him. He keeps alot to himself which he has every right to do.

Tactics and changing games mean nothing when we are top of the league. Lets face it DJ hasnt spent much at all since being at Cardiff and the above post on sunderlands spending justifies how much other clubs have spent in the past. West Brom did not have to spend much last season because they kept alot of their players from the season before in the premier league.

Lets face it, the fans opinion doesnt really mean anything at the moment because we are top of league but yet there are some people who would like to see a new manager take over tomorrow if they could. I would just be waiting for the chaos that would occurr if he went just for others to see how important he was to us. DJ needs Cardiff City just as much as Cardiff needs DJ. Hes built a solid foundation for this club to go into the premier league in 2011 and STAY THERE.

Do some fans on here really think Craig Bellers would have signed for Cardiff without DJ? NO. Dj was a big figure in signing him and look at the excitement it brought to this club.

Just remember, ALL MANAGERS have negative points, all managers make mistakes,. All managers need time and patience and because we lost in the fa cup final and play off final we have a grumpy, boring manager who apparently "bottles" it??? Lets see how we bottle it this season.I cant wait till May 2011. IN DJ I TRUST

fair points but heres mine were top of the league and thats why i think no one could do any better than dave jones at this point!!after all went on with ridsdale an all the rest of the nonsense dave jones i believe has been excellent throughout in keeping the players going all with no money to spend we last spent money on a player transfer over 18 months ago i believe!!
changing manager at this point in time would be delusional in my opinion!!

I agree the last thing we need to do is change manager at the moment but the question asked was who could realistically replace DJ at the moment and I offered AP as a realistic alternative.

Let me ask you another question if we were to fail this season what would be 3 possible reasons. [/quote]


thats impossible to answer as we dont know whats gonna happen through the season!!so i cant give any possible reasons!!

I respect what Dave Jones has achieved at our club but I really don't like him and it's the these things which I think would not be missed at our club when he leaves.

Firstly it's his stubborn my way or the highway attitude and that one of the main reasons why he struggles when he needs to change things during a game. His record throughtout his career, and not just at Cardiff, of struggling to win games when his team goes behind is one of the biggest concerns. In fairness the flipside of that is his record when his teams score first is very good but then again thats the same with any decent manager.

But to be a top manager you must have the ability to influence games from the sidelines either by changing tactics or motivating your team. It's difficult for anyone to argue that his plan A doesn't work but does he have a plan B ? and can he transmit that to his team on the pitch.

Another concern for me is his "Do as I say and not as I do" attitude with the perfect example being in the last two weeks where when he was asked about the derby game he said "I don't like derby games I didn't like them as a player and I don't like them as a manager because of all the crap that goes with losing".

When you so clearl struggle to motivate yourself for such games it's little wonder that your team under performs in the game. His answer is then to go say "The local media are fools and buffoons who have no idea not a clue about what their writing about, I never said I didn't like playing in derby games these guy need to keep to the facts".

In my opinion this is a major flaw in his management his serious lack of interpersonal skills as it is vital within his role that he has good communication skills, he hasn't and it should be a huge concern to everyone.

Also in the last 2 weeks he was asked by Rob Phillips if he had talked to Jay about the silly bookings he was getting his reply was "What said in the dressing room remains in the dressing room at this football club". I wonder what Gabor Gypes and Adam Matthews think about that as DJ has laid waste to both of them this season. It happened again yesterday when Chopra gave the ball away cheaply and Scunthorpe went straight upfield and scored. DJ we gave the ball away cheaply in midfield and we must stop doing that. Does this different treatment of players amount to protecting his favourites, no talking about molly coddling players yesterday, I think it does and in man management terms this is a cardinel sin. You must treat everyone firmly, fairly and above all consistently. DJ doesn't and this is a big concern to me and should be to anyone who want's the best for our football club.

But my biggest concern about him is he lack of respect for this part of the world, for the people who live here and earn their living here. For our football club it's history and traditions. DJ has not respect for anything about our football club before he arrived and he constantly has a dig about it whenever he has a chance.

We have a new ground a state of the art training ground and he has been given the biggest budget in the history of our club to put together a squad capable of winning promotion to the PL. But for all the riches he team is still capable of putiing in performances like they did in the derby.

You can pay the biggest salaries in world football, have the best training facilities possible and the greatest stadium in the world but if cannot get yourself motivated for a big game BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE THE CRAP THAT GOES WITH LOSING it's a problem.

This should be a time when he should be adored by the Cardiff fans but he isn't, and thats a fact, most all fans if their being honest will have a doubt if we are going to see it through this season. Look at our squad and ask yourself why what are the 3 top reasons that you think we will not make it again this season.

I bet DJ would be in the top 3 of the majority of you who would think about it, yes credit the man for everything he does, everything he has achieved and continues to achieve. But if we fail again he must also expect to be held responsible and I for one will do just that.

First of all, his stubbon my way attitude shows hes the manager and in charge, lets be honest, the players and manager are the most important part of the clubs success as they do the buisness on the field and i have NEVER seen a player criticise Dave Jones, in fact hes one of the most respected in the game. His stubbon my way on the highway shows hes in charge, hes the boss, he makes the decisions and thats the way it should be.its from his ways and stubboness that Cardiff have developed every season and developed one of the best squads in our history.

As for his stubboness is the reason why he fails to change games when we are struggling?? What nonsense. There have been hundreads of times when DJ's team has come back to win games, and Cardiff this season have dramatically improved in that area. On top of being top of the championship and the second highest scorers in the league. Does DJ have a plan B? Yes he does thats why when we have been drawing in and loosing in then past we have gone on to win games. It must be noted though that EVERY manager has weaknesses, does this make them a bad manager? NO. DJ's rein and not his record speaks for itself. Some fans on this forum think we have a devine right to be promoted and be the best in europe because we got a decent team??? It doesnt work like that. This is the championship, a very very difficult league where anybody can beat anybody. Were you criticising DJ when we hammered Bristol City 0-6 on their own patch? when we beat the jacks 2-1 last season, when we got to an FA Cup final, All of the good points Cardiff have achieved under DJ have been under difficult circumstances. His plans to move forward have been ripped apart on several occassions during his rein as players have been sold due to the financial mess people have left this club in.

As for DJ not liking derby games, you cant blame him. He knows how intense Cardiff V Swansea is and you could see how upset he was after the match. he does care about this club and for what its worth he does care about the welsh national team often going to watch them with his family. he also refers to how if cardiff get promoted he will be taking a nation forward. Just because sometimes hes forced to refer to the huge different standards between England and Wales in football does not mean hes being disrespectful to this part of the world, hes just stating facts.

As for our team putting in a performance like they did against swansea with "all our riches?>".... WE DONT HAVE A DEVINE RIGHT to beat Swansea... Our team were below par but this happens in football..it happens to man united-remember when they lost 4-0 to manchester city in the derby a few seasons ago, does that make fergie a bad manager who cant motivate his players for a derby. And You should look at previous managers records against swansea because prior to our april against the jacks we had not beaten them in the league at home for 13 years???... Every club has a bogey team!

As for naming persons publically, why shouldnt he??/ When players who are on thousands and thousands a week they should face criticism and if they are any good they will learn from it. Are you saying its alright for the fans to criticise players and not the manager? dont be stupid. If i made a big mistake in work which was a big deal i would have a row off my manager, the same elsewhere as footballers are in the public eye, they should be subject to criticism. The thing is DJ should NOT have to take the blame for individual player errors when hes worked his socks off in training going over game plans and training his team. Some managers will protect their players, some managers dont. Theres no right or wrong when it comes to this subject. The same is with being a miserable sod with the press...theres no right or wrong with this..doesnt make him a bad manager if hes miserable at times. I find him quite funny at times. On too many occassions have reporters said stupid questions to DJ and with all the nonsense DJ put up with when he was going through criminal proceedings i dont blame the bloke for being a bit weary of the press. I think he speaks very very well with the press. DJ also criticised Jay bothroyd publically last season and look where Jay is now.England call up and top goal scorer in the league. DJ is a passionate manager who doesnt show it publically, i know this by speaking to people who have met him. He keeps alot to himself which he has every right to do.

Tactics and changing games mean nothing when we are top of the league. Lets face it DJ hasnt spent much at all since being at Cardiff and the above post on sunderlands spending justifies how much other clubs have spent in the past. West Brom did not have to spend much last season because they kept alot of their players from the season before in the premier league.

Lets face it, the fans opinion doesnt really mean anything at the moment because we are top of league but yet there are some people who would like to see a new manager take over tomorrow if they could. I would just be waiting for the chaos that would occurr if he went just for others to see how important he was to us. DJ needs Cardiff City just as much as Cardiff needs DJ. Hes built a solid foundation for this club to go into the premier league in 2011 and STAY THERE.

Do some fans on here really think Craig Bellers would have signed for Cardiff without DJ? NO. Dj was a big figure in signing him and look at the excitement it brought to this club.

Just remember, ALL MANAGERS have negative points, all managers make mistakes,. All managers need time and patience and because we lost in the fa cup final and play off final we have a grumpy, boring manager who apparently "bottles" it??? Lets see how we bottle it this season.I cant wait till May 2011. IN DJ I TRUST

So unless I'm misreading your post you are a diehard DJ man well fine that's your opinion but let's get one thing straight I have not said get rid of him tomorrow.

One thing about your post when you say there are hundreds of times DJ teams have come from behind to win games that's not accurate is it? With the greatest respect to you take the emotion out of what you have just written and ask yourself what would be 3 reasons for us failing to get promoted this season.

I would love to know the honest answer to that question.

fair points but heres mine were top of the league and thats why i think no one could do any better than dave jones at this point!!after all went on with ridsdale an all the rest of the nonsense dave jones i believe has been excellent throughout in keeping the players going all with no money to spend we last spent money on a player transfer over 18 months ago i believe!!
changing manager at this point in time would be delusional in my opinion!!

I agree the last thing we need to do is change manager at the moment but the question asked was who could realistically replace DJ at the moment and I offered AP as a realistic alternative.

Let me ask you another question if we were to fail this season what would be 3 possible reasons.

thats impossible to answer as we dont know whats gonna happen through the season!!so i cant give any possible reasons!! [/quote]


Do you think injuries to key players could be a possible reason ?

three reasons -

1.other teams being better than us over the course of the season

hand on heart thats all i can think of at this moment as were top of the league

if we succeed can u give 3 possible reasons!!

1. Injuries to KEY players
2. Club goes into administration in the new year because the malaysians leave
3. Players feud/Not giving 100%
4. Team's who do get promoted have performed better than us over 46 games or over 1 game if we get to the play off final again.
5. DJ quits because of too much negativity or another premiership club comes in for him

Theres 5

1. Injuries to KEY players
2. Club goes into administration in the new year because the malaysians leave
3. Players feud/Not giving 100%
4. Team's who do get promoted have performed better than us over 46 games or over 1 game if we get to the play off final again.
5. DJ quits because of too much negativity or another premiership club comes in for him

Theres 5

we will go up this year DJ got the players knuckled down and a few gmes this year where weve been garbage and come away with a win shows me we have the bottle this year to do it!!i might get proved wrong but ive never been more excited about a season than when bellers signed to go with our already terriffic team !!so from a very happy cardiff city fan for 20 years!! over and out my messageboard friends im gonna watch shaun ryder play f**k in the jungle.

some of us like DJ, Some of us dont, who cares, the main thing is we all love one club and thats Cardiff City FC and NO Manager is bigger than the club..Blooooooooooooooobirds!!!

And My 4th and it should of been my first is, NO PLAN B.

Annis,

You go on about this plan B all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is it ? Could you explain?

Annis,

You go on about this plan B all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is it ? Could you explain?

Spike

When things are not going right on the pitch, DJ cant change it, thats why his record of 9 Wins out of Approx 110 games when we have gone 1 nil down is the worst in football history.
When were in the lead though the odds are we will win it under him

This is a good debate but like all things about football clubs it can get emotional at times and taking the theme of the OP I agree there are a number of things that DJ should receive credit for.

1. Consistently keeping the club challenging for the playoff places in the Championship throughtout his time at the club.
2. Taking the clubs average attendance from 11K to 23K during his time at the club.
3. Leading the club to it's first FA Cup Final in over 80 years.
4. Leading the club to a playoff final last season against a background of turmoil with transfer embargos, winding up orders, players and staff being paid late.
5. Consistenly buying players cheaply and then selling them for high prices, Roger Johnson, Glen Loovens and Chopra being the best examples.

The flip side of the same coin is.

1. Consistently failing to get a result in the BIG games (FA Cup Final, Playoff Final, Derby Games, Final Game at Sheff Wed)
2. Consistetly falling out with players , isolating them and then driving them out of the club. Alexander, Thompson, Gerrard and McCormack are good examples. Also consistently signing average players on high wages, Eddie Johnson, Kelvin Etuhu and Andy Keogh are perfect examples.
3. Consistently falling out with local media because they dare to question result and tactics. 1st commandment is always thou shall not criticise DJ.
4. Consistently failing to recover when his teams go a goal down, less than 10% success rate during his time at the club is extremely poor.
5. Consistently failing to sign back up for Jay Bothroyd the most pivotal role in the entire team, he even sold Steve Thompson on to Burnley without replacing him and 2 years on he still hasn't successfully replaced him.


Football fans are by nature fickle and when times are good then the team and manager get the credit they deserve and when things go wrong the reverse rule applies and they get stick.

One final statistic only one club has failed to gain promotion to the PL in the last 5 years having secured 36 points in the first 17 games of a season, that club is Cardiff City and the manager is DJ. That year he said we dropped away from the promotion race because the squad lacked strength.

This year we have 36 points from the first 17 games and this year we have the squad, we have strength in depth. Not my opinion that's what DJ has been saying so I make no apology when I say there can be no acceptable explanation for failing to make it this year.

Not even having cover for Jay should he get injured, sold in January or whatever the responsibility for that will fall squarely on the shoulders of DJ.

You can't reserve judgement Annis lol....you don't like DJ
I can understand why people don't like him to be honest because i'm one of those who wants to see more passion from him.
Good buys and bad buys i'm sure all managers had had a few nightmare buys in their time.
In all fairness...at this moment in time we must give DJ credit where it's due, as for being the greatest manager well i'm afraid i'll reserve judgement lol

You can't reserve judgement Annis lol....you don't like DJ
I can understand why people don't like him to be honest because i'm one of those who wants to see more passion from him.
Good buys and bad buys i'm sure all managers had had a few nightmare buys in their time.
In all fairness...at this moment in time we must give DJ credit where it's due, as for being the greatest manager well i'm afraid i'll reserve judgement lol

I forgot to add....every now and again a great topic of debate comes up on this site.....this is another one of those that splits oppinions but a great post all the same.
One thing is for certain tho
We are all behind Dave Jones at this moment in time.
C'mon You Mighty Bluebirds

You can't reserve judgement Annis lol....you don't like DJ
I can understand why people don't like him to be honest because i'm one of those who wants to see more passion from him.
Good buys and bad buys i'm sure all managers had had a few nightmare buys in their time.
In all fairness...at this moment in time we must give DJ credit where it's due, as for being the greatest manager well i'm afraid i'll reserve judgement lol

well each year he has got us closer with last year being a bit of bad luck i think with jay being out. but as mentioned if he dont make it this year he has to step down.

Yeah he has brought in great players like Taiwo, Commingues, Quinn, Etuhu and a few others I could mention if I can remember their names. Yes he got us to a FA cup final after beating high flying teams like Chasetown, Hereford, Wolves, Middlesborough and the might Barnsley. Yep he has got us in our highest position for years, although he has never won us a promotion and has been given more money than most.

The only problem with DJ is that to every good thing people claim he does there seems to be a bad thing to counter act it.

Same world....different planet!! He's got far more right than wrong and has improved this club's position EVERY year he's been in charge. The last manager to do that?? Erm, I certainly can't remember....except to recall that our highest league position since the 'Toshack Saga' was a lofty 9th under the stewardship of Richie Morgan back in the late 70's (possibly VERY early 80's)

WTF would it take for some of you to accept that overall Dave Jones has not only turned this club around, he has taken us to the brink of something most (including me) thought was merely the fantasies of a deluded few....

SUPERB DEBATE