UPDATED: ‘ Vincent Tan v Michael Isaac ‘

I've suggested that the outcome of the case will have a bearing on the next few years as a Cardiff fan, and gave two particular scenarios.

Now, my point about the fact that the outcome will have such a bearing could have become the topic of debate, but it has been decided by a few that the part of my response that you wanted to debate was the point I raised about Sam.

Anyone was perfectly entitled to say that this court case, once sorted can have a positive effect either way and back up their theory. A few did, and a few took the thread down a different route.

I didn’t at all. It was well into that before I saw it had turned. I did mention the idiot who said Sam would be lynched and corrected him. Then it was said it was a Tan follower. Which was (as usual) bollocks.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

I've suggested that the outcome of the case will have a bearing on the next few years as a Cardiff fan, and gave two particular scenarios.

Now, my point about the fact that the outcome will have such a bearing could have become the topic of debate, but it has been decided by a few that the part of my response that you wanted to debate was the point I raised about Sam.

Anyone was perfectly entitled to say that this court case, once sorted can have a positive effect either way and back up their theory. A few did, and a few took the thread down a different route.

I didn’t at all. It was well into that before I saw it had turned. I did mention the idiot who said Sam would be lynched and corrected him. Then it was said it was a Tan follower. Which was (as usual) bollocks.

Apologies if you felt this was aimed at you personally. Certainly wasn't my intention.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

I tend to agree with a number of points raised here.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

As always an amazing post.

There’s actually another thread starting the same argument claimed to be not wanted.

Crazy.

I've suggested that the outcome of the case will have a bearing on the next few years as a Cardiff fan, and gave two particular scenarios.

Now, my point about the fact that the outcome will have such a bearing could have become the topic of debate, but it has been decided by a few that the part of my response that you wanted to debate was the point I raised about Sam.

Anyone was perfectly entitled to say that this court case, once sorted can have a positive effect either way and back up their theory. A few did, and a few took the thread down a different route.

I didn’t at all. It was well into that before I saw it had turned. I did mention the idiot who said Sam would be lynched and corrected him. Then it was said it was a Tan follower. Which was (as usual) bollocks.

Apologies if you felt this was aimed at you personally. Certainly wasn't my intention.

No worries.

It’s more the narrative (as usual) that you like Sam or you like Tan and if you don’t hate Tan and bang on about him you are a Tan follower or supporter. Or if you say anything bad about Sam you are a Tan supporter.

It’s not that simple, it’s not black and white.

I appreciate both of them. They both did good and both have done bad. But there is so much bollocks perpetuated as fact to denigrate Tan it’s unreal. I would say over half is made up.

How anyone could want Sam back is beyond me... bloody hell talk about pressing the red button...Look at derby and some want owners that would put us in that situation

Langstone, Rudgwick, Cardiff Celts, 15 minutes from administration... although the Hammam days were fun, it wasn't all as some would like to paint it. Not for me, and even if he was as rich as people are alleging, I doubt he'd risk any of his wealth on the club.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

I've suggested that the outcome of the case will have a bearing on the next few years as a Cardiff fan, and gave two particular scenarios.

Now, my point about the fact that the outcome will have such a bearing could have become the topic of debate, but it has been decided by a few that the part of my response that you wanted to debate was the point I raised about Sam.

Anyone was perfectly entitled to say that this court case, once sorted can have a positive effect either way and back up their theory. A few did, and a few took the thread down a different route.

Absolutely correct, if Tan loses say two of these three cases , I believe it will have a bearing on the future of our club.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

When you sit in a 33plus capacity stadium all owned by Cardiff City football club that is an improvement, juat look around South wales at all the facilties the academy have ,that's improving.there may be debt but its manageable amd owed to our owner who has written off 100m so far sam wrote off nothing, read the accounts the balance sheet is much better than under Sam or pmg.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

When you sit in a 33plus capacity stadium all owned by Cardiff City football club that is an improvement, juat look around South wales at all the facilties the academy have ,that's improving.there may be debt but its manageable amd owed to our owner who has written off 100m so far sam wrote off nothing, read the accounts the balance sheet is much better than under Sam or pmg.

The Accademy’s are built by Borley.

We have finally brought a couple of players through after 12 yrs and still Morison is unsure of them and says we are in this position due to throwing loads of them in the squad at once.

This is not down to the Tan regarding our stadium.

Sam wrote off the debts when he came in.


Tan promised debt free, we are waiting 12 yrs later.

Tan is only now writing off some of the debts he himself has made during his ownership all facts.


The debt is higher than 12 yrs ago.

How much is our squad today worth?

How much will these court cases cost once again?

We are lower in the league are we not?

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

Tan is not the man to take us forward.

Sam is a football man. His history shows that he is capable of getting a club up the leagues and staying there. His only blip was he ran out of money with us. However, if what I am hearing is right then that problem has been solved. Even so he would be limited to what he could spend under FFP. However, I would rather him in control due to his football knowledge than Tan and Gang who know nothing about football. I do believe the money he spends would be good value compared to this gang we have in control now.

When people like you say Tan got us 2 promotions I always question. We were primed for promotion to the Premier league when he came in. Lets be honest its the only reason he came. Would he have come when we were in the Dungeon? I doubt it but if he did it would have not surprised me if we were still there.

As said above he is not the man to take us forward.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

So do you think Tan, Dalman and Choo are doing a good job ?

Are these three the men to take us forward?

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

So do you think Tan, Dalman and Choo are doing a good job ?

Are these three the men to take us forward?

What those 3 know about the football side of the business could be written on the back of a stamp with a paint brush.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

So do you think Tan, Dalman and Choo are doing a good job ?

Are these three the men to take us forward?

Hmmmm .......... good question.

Without thinking too long about it my feeling is that Tan is as good an option as owner as we have right now. Choo I think is a good man and pretty straight as well as being a good CEO from a business perspective. Dalman I question what he's there for other than the odd interview with Talk Sport !!

What I do think is that Tan needs a Director of Football that he can work with and rely on on to join up the footballing and finance sides of the business. Someone who can be trusted with a budget and anything he generates or needs from within that budget he will have the autonomy to decide.

That would include overseeing the Academy, First Team Squad, etc., and working closely with the manager on longer term plans.

If that appointment was right then the only time the DoF would need to go to Tan for more money would be to make a big signing that was outside of the budget but may have a longer term gain for the club.

Unfortunately Tan has, understandably, been scarred on the DoF role by Moody in Mackay's time even if he wasn't technically given that title. You and I both know that there were some very "dodgy" deals done in that time and many of the financial trails, allegedly !, lead back to Mackay and Moody (or acquaintances !!). The money was eye watering but Tan put his trust in somebody who just couldn't be trusted with somebody else's money.

I hope that whoever is the owner does decide to appoint a DoF. That role gives continuity and allows a cultural change from within the club.

Recruitment is much improved since Warnock left, even with a minimal outlay. It can be done but we need more football knowledge if we are to build something sustainable on the football side whilst maintaining stability on the finance side.

Just my view of course.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

I’m not stupid, I would never claim that we’re improving right now. But in any business you have dips where you have to re-assess, reset and go again.

Even in football you get it. Look at Man Utd the richest club in the world !!

However, if you’re looking at Tan’s time overall a Carling Cup Final, two promotions and a number of play off finishes would suggest a pretty good period.

I have said before. I am not an out and out Tan supporter, if there was another VIABLE owner willing to pay what Tan wants then I would support them too.

Where we disagree is that I don’t gloss over Sam’s time. Some of it was glorious but the end was absolutely awful on terms of the impact on our club. That is why I don’t want him anywhere near it.

You’ve never explained why you turn a blind eye to Black Friday and the fire sales of players. If that happened under Tan you’d be storming the stadium !!

Sam wasn’t the only one. I also wouldn’t let PMG or Ridsdale within 2 miles of our club. They completely screwed us.

But as owners go, based on the published accounts, Tan is not syphoning off money for himself or paying off non-transparent loans as other owners have. So in the scale of things he not the disaster you paint out and certainly more reliable than Sam will ever be.

I admit Sam made some bad mistakes and so does he.

But we were going NO where when Sam arrived.

When Tan arrived we were just about to play Blackpool one game off Premier League and we had a New stadium.

What I don’t like is some fans forget where we were when Sam came in and we were worthless and going NO where.

And many were not even around in them days.

Agreed. I don't think I've said anywhere that we would be where we are without Sam.

He was certainly the catalyst for everything that came after him.

Where we disagree, and I doubt we'll ever agree , is that I could never be comfortable with Sam being in charge of this club again. It's an even bigger organisation than it was and needs careful management to avoid any disasters.

We agreed in earlier posts that the future of this club will be a lot clearer come the summer. Maybe you'll get what you want, maybe you won't, but once these court cases are over with there will be an opportunity to assess where we really are as a club, and business, and develop a 3-5 year plan that must be based on becoming self sustainable and not relying on a rich owner (whoever that may be) to pay the bills.

So do you think Tan, Dalman and Choo are doing a good job ?

Are these three the men to take us forward?

What those 3 know about the football side of the business could be written on the back of a stamp with a paint brush.

That’s exactly how I feel about the three clowns.

Also for me they don’t care or have much to do with our club, two now live full time in London and work for Tan there and he lives in Malians virtually never comes to watch us.

Dalman will tell the media another story.

Meanwhile - any news on the Tan v Issac court case/

Meanwhile - any news on the Tan v Issac court case/

Won’t know till the end of the day

Any chance we can start another thread with this header and then ONLY talk about the case at hand when updates are available?

May be easier to find relevant info.

This thread can be renamed something else. What I don't know

Annis, is it at all realistic that Sam could every return ? I respect your opinion on most things, but are you looking through rose-tinted glasses as far at Sam, I know you are are very much in Sam's corner but is that really the way forward?

I do think that Tan needs to step aside now as I feel his journey is close to the end. What comes next is very much up in the air.

Some very reasonable points made by both sides of the Tan vs Sam ‘supporters’ here. But I don’t understand why people say the owners not a football man or his CEO are not football men. Look at the likes of Liverpool and Man City, their owners and CEO’s are not exactly football men either. So why do we as a championship club need to have an owner and CEO who are football men, when the best clubs in the world don’t? I’d prefer to have people who understand finance more than football to run our club. The football side of it is down to the manager, and he’s told yes or no by the ‘committee’ whether it’s within budget.

It’s a bit rich for Sam’s supporters to claim that “Tan’s supporters” have taken this thread down a different route.

The other recent thread about this having been a good transfer window was hijacked by them to have a pop that it was a good window despite Tan’s efforts, or words that effect !!

This forum continually tries to put forward the Sam agenda and certainly don’t like it if Sam’s credentials or previous handling of the club are called into question.

This is emotive for both sides of the argument, with some close friendships/loyalty involved but there are two sides to this and Sam is certainly not perfect but nor is Tan the anti-Christ !!

A bit of balance in a thread is good but the threats and/or denial of facts ain’t helping any side of the argument.

This forum allows posts that support Tan. This forum has a history of allowing both sides of the argument to be heard.

100% Correct we do Ian.


But NO one ever answers this ?


Today we are struggling near the bottom of the Championship, crowds getting lower, season ticket sales falling, debt higher , Our squad virtually worthless and court case after court case.

How are we improving??

When you sit in a 33plus capacity stadium all owned by Cardiff City football club that is an improvement, juat look around South wales at all the facilties the academy have ,that's improving.there may be debt but its manageable amd owed to our owner who has written off 100m so far sam wrote off nothing, read the accounts the balance sheet is much better than under Sam or pmg.

The Accademy’s are built by Borley.

We have finally brought a couple of players through after 12 yrs and still Morison is unsure of them and says we are in this position due to throwing loads of them in the squad at once.

This is not down to the Tan regarding our stadium.

Sam wrote off the debts when he came in.


Tan promised debt free, we are waiting 12 yrs later.

Tan is only now writing off some of the debts he himself has made during his ownership all facts.


The debt is higher than 12 yrs ago.

How much is our squad today worth?

How much will these court cases cost once again?

We are lower in the league are we not?

Your very selective, read the accounts its all in there, tan paid the stadium upgrades ,paid all contractors off when he took over ,my friend was owed 500k tan personally paid him off ,Cardiff City football club fund the Accademy and its associated facilities, when Sam was here we didn't have a grass pitch to train on some weeks,locked out of training grounds ,you go on about the squad but we have youngsters like colwil coming through who would command just as much fees as players whe sam left ,we lost a couple of player ie motndo who man city sold for 10 million plus ! Recently and the club are trying to address that with academy1 status .your hatred for tan is definitely clouding your judgement of the current state of play with the club .100 million tan written off so far sam ran up 24 million pound of debt its assets much less than we got now ,he lied and tried saying it was owed to another company but then had to admit he was Langston to get a 15 million final settlement payment in court ,Langstone has had 24 million pounds altogether since sam left .why didn't sam write off some of the 24 million loan notes like tan has done ,you say tan ran up the debts but so did sam ? .and now he wants more money for a title that quite frankly most cardiff fans don't think he deserves after all the court cases against our club , most cardiff city fans just want sam to go away nd if they don't like tan they want a new investor but not sam.if sam has the money and I mean real money coz if you think tan will sell the whole club lock stock for anything under what the stadium is worth around 60 to 70 million then your off your head .sam should come out in public and prove the funds are there and make public his plans if he bought the club back.i got a feeling tho it's all a dream in sams head just like the stadium, a dream that he can't deliver .footballs moved on from the likes of sam its become a billionaires play ground .

Last edited by wez1927 on Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Some very reasonable points made by both sides of the Tan vs Sam ‘supporters’ here. But I don’t understand why people say the owners not a football man or his CEO are not football men. Look at the likes of Liverpool and Man City, their owners and CEO’s are not exactly football men either. So why do we as a championship club need to have an owner and CEO who are football men, when the best clubs in the world don’t? I’d prefer to have people who understand finance more than football to run our club. The football side of it is down to the manager, and he’s told yes or no by the ‘committee’ whether it’s within budget.

Very true.

Big arguments these days for Football Directors.

Some very reasonable points made by both sides of the Tan vs Sam ‘supporters’ here. But I don’t understand why people say the owners not a football man or his CEO are not football men. Look at the likes of Liverpool and Man City, their owners and CEO’s are not exactly football men either. So why do we as a championship club need to have an owner and CEO who are football men, when the best clubs in the world don’t? I’d prefer to have people who understand finance more than football to run our club. The football side of it is down to the manager, and he’s told yes or no by the ‘committee’ whether it’s within budget.

Your bang on but the current owners have been here for 12 years surely they are football men now , 2 premiership campaigns a carling cup final that's a better record than any so called football men in the past .

Some very reasonable points made by both sides of the Tan vs Sam ‘supporters’ here. But I don’t understand why people say the owners not a football man or his CEO are not football men. Look at the likes of Liverpool and Man City, their owners and CEO’s are not exactly football men either. So why do we as a championship club need to have an owner and CEO who are football men, when the best clubs in the world don’t? I’d prefer to have people who understand finance more than football to run our club. The football side of it is down to the manager, and he’s told yes or no by the ‘committee’ whether it’s within budget.

Your bang on but the current owners have been here for 12 years surely they are football men now , 2 premiership campaigns a carling cup final that's a better record than any so called football men in the past .

Here we go again.

We were primed for Premier football before these guys turned up on the scene. It was Malky that got us there finally. Yet when these "football men" butted in, team selection etc etc that has come out in the open of late, we got relegated. Our next visit to Dream land was all down to Warnock. We nearly remained there with a Championship squad but for some bad decisions going against us. That was down to 2 things, Warnock management and these Football Men keeping out of it.