petition for referendum welsh devolution

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.

To my shame I don't speak Welsh (mainly down to my generation having little/no meaningful tuition back in 70s). However, I find it hugely sad when countries do not try to protect/promote their native language or culture. It's what makes us unique whether we're part of the UK or not.

My daughters all have a pretty good understanding of the language despite going to English language schools in 90s and 00s and they have a real feeling of identity.

Interestingly Cornwall is making a real push to reintroduce their language so it's not just a Welsh thing.

Yes, it does come at a cost. Yes, it is frustrating when it takes twice as long to read a road sign But, for me, as a proud English speaking Welshman I think any cost is worth it and our "Welshness" is well worth celebrating and fighting for.

I dont vote labour or Tory.
Two cheeks of the same arse.

However a big fact, a centralised government is always a dictatorship and not a democracy.

China have slowly crushed Hong Kong since taking over,
Russia is another that crushes.

There is no democracy. Those governments were far left or marxist but now have embraced capitalism and one can argue that they can apoear far right as china first, russia first and how much they influence and interfere in other countries, also killing tgeiir democracy.

London government has been a shambles for decades, even before WW2.

All outside 100 miles of London a minions, whether it is in the UK or when there was an empire.

What we had were freedomsbut not really democracy.

Democracy is self government, whether it by assemblies or state governments in US, Aus, NZ etc.

Were all fucked off with freedoms being taken over covid
and
probably stuff like stabbings, violence, immigration, food banks for working families, bums getting housing while soldiers sleep on streets etc. That happens right in front of us.

Freedom is different from democracy, but they can work together if done right.

The UK is not the same, its too right or too left in its oprions to govern. So having a centarl government would be a nightmare.

Be careful what you wish for...

Better politicians we need....

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.

You are perfectly entitled to your view that, as someone who has chosen to move to Wales, you object to contributing towards an education system that enables Welsh children to receive an education in Welsh.
But that is not an opinion that I share. It is notsomething we will ever agree on, and so it is futile to discuss it further.

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.

You are perfectly entitled to your view that, as someone who has chosen to move to Wales, you object to contributing towards an education system that enables Welsh children to receive an education in Welsh.
But that is not an opinion that I share. It is notsomething we will ever agree on, and so it is futile to discuss it further.

No problem, btw if I’d stayed in Scotland I’d object to paying for Gaelic. My kids and now grandkids are obviously in the Welsh education system and being force fed the Welsh language, outside the Public Sector or Welsh media where will that help their employment prospects?

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.

Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!

Drakeford better job? Opinion not fact.
Johnson would've done exactly the same? Opnion not fact.
Putting his party before lives. Opinion not fact.
Lastly, Drakeford honest?!

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.

Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!

Drakeford better job? Opinion not fact.
Johnson would've done exactly the same? Opnion not fact.
Putting his party before lives. Opinion not fact.
Lastly, Drakeford honest?!

Well in the interests of balance, any examples of Drakeford not being honest for us to consider ? Seeing as you've specifically raised it.

An old family friend died some years ago - and Drakeford was asked to say a few words at the funeral. He said many words - the problem was - they were all about himself rather the person whose funeral it was.

Even his wife had a go at it him afterwards. The man is a an incompetent fool. Probably a great social worker and good at following orders. But as a 'Leader' he is 100% not. As someone who is supposed to give vision, inspiration and take people with him when implementing his political vision - he is utterly useless - and should not be anywhere near that job.

And as per usual - he pulled the same political stunt as Carwyn and Rhodri before him. They know people dont like them - so say they will quit before the next set of elections - duping people into thinking I dont like him but I can still vote Labour. Not knowing there is an equally inept buffoon waiting to take his place.

And as long as people continue to vote Labour without even holding them to account for their actions especially the devolved powers of Health and Education - then we will get the idiots in charge of the country we deserve.

It could and should be so much better than what it is.

Are there any politicians out there who you would want to be first minister or prime minister putting political parties aside. Imo there isn't a politician who inspires me and shows true leadership qualities.

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.

Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!

Drakeford better job? Opinion not fact.
Johnson would've done exactly the same? Opnion not fact.
Putting his party before lives. Opinion not fact.
Lastly, Drakeford honest?!

Just answer a simple question for me. With all the information about parties at No10 with Boris in attendance during the 1st lockdown coming out. Can you imagine Drakeford holding similar parties? Just a simple yes or no.

Are there any politicians out there who you would want to be first minister or prime minister putting political parties aside. Imo there isn't a politician who inspires me and shows true leadership qualities.

Alan Johnson, Penny Mordaunt are both decent people who didn’t have it easy growing up. Don’t know if either aspire to being PM though.

And as per usual - he pulled the same political stunt as Carwyn and Rhodri before him. They know people dont like them - so say they will quit before the next set of elections - duping people into thinking I dont like him but I can still vote Labour. Not knowing there is an equally inept buffoon waiting to take his place.[/b]

So Rhodri Morgan won two elections (2003, 2007), Carywn Jones won two elections (2011, 2016) and Drakeford won one (2021).

Yet, that is duping people

What absolute rubbish, you may not want to vote for any of them but they won those elections and used PR in the process which is a fairer electoral system, in most people eyes, as the number of seats is more closely related to the number of votes.

You're sounding like one of those saddo anti-Brexiteers who said there should be a re-vote just because the vote went against them. For the record, I didn't vote for Brexit but no way would I argue there should be a re-vote unless there was something illegal going on (there wasn't), maybe you should accept that a party you don't like got in. S^&t happens in politics like that !!

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

Spot on, we are locked down longer and harder than England and just for party politics to show Labour can damage the economy better than the Conservatives!!!

The roads in Wales are 20mph or 50mph on the motorway, if you can get back into Wales through the Brynglas Tunnels, where they spent £115Million considering how to do it then deciding to scrap it and keep it as a nightmare, then close the main route to the City Centre by the castle for months on end and put a food stall in that no one used or wanted.

They buy the airport and run it down to a few flights a day when it could be a much better operation than Bristol, but people still vote for it to continue?

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense

Hmmmm. I wouldn't normally bring this up but seeing as you are making the point that Labour voters must be thick and just follow the crowd and bring this for you to consider.

The following is from YouGov when analysing to 2019 UK election.

"The highest level of education someone has achieved remains an important dividing line in how people vote. Labour did much better than the Conservatives amongst those who have a degree or higher, by 43% to 29%.

The Liberal Democrats also performed very well amongst this group with 17% of the vote share. We saw in 2016 that those with a higher education level were overwhelmingly more likely to back remaining in the EU, and this has seemingly transferred into party voting.

The Conservatives won amongst the much larger group of voters who do not hold a degree, however. They outperformed Labour by more than two to one (58% to 25%) amongst those whose highest level of education is GCSE or lower.

Compared to 2017, the Conservatives have improved amongst those without a degree, but performed worse amongst those with a degree or higher. Labour lost voters amongst all three education level groups."

Be careful when you make generalisations without the analysis to back it up !!

If I was to take your approach then I would say that from that analysis the majority of Tory voters have a lower level of education and don't have the same level of understanding, but I won't because that would be generalising

Just because you don't get a degree doesn't make you thick ........................ Just like just because you vote for a certain party doesn't make you thick

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

Bi-lingual system was better.. not every Welsh person wants the Welsh language shoved down their throats. Most dont speak it anyway, because it sounds worse than Dutch.
Of course Wales is failing.. it comes out bottom of nearly every yardstick known. And gross incompetence is good enough reason to get rid of the Senedd. Most of the South is of recent foreign heritage, times change.

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.

Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!

Drakeford better job? Opinion not fact.
Johnson would've done exactly the same? Opnion not fact.
Putting his party before lives. Opinion not fact.
Lastly, Drakeford honest?!

Just answer a simple question for me. With all the information about parties at No10 with Boris in attendance during the 1st lockdown coming out. Can you imagine Drakeford holding similar parties? Just a simple yes or no.

If he was our Prime Minister. YES.

I also believe anyone in that role would have. There's a 'them and us' attitude and Drakeford is definitely a them.

As for lying, he's a politician for christ sake. You only need to look at his justifications for restrictions over Xmas. Pure bullshit.

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense

Hmmmm. I wouldn't normally bring this up but seeing as you are making the point that Labour voters must be thick and just follow the crowd and bring this for you to consider.

The following is from YouGov when analysing to 2019 UK election.

"The highest level of education someone has achieved remains an important dividing line in how people vote. Labour did much better than the Conservatives amongst those who have a degree or higher, by 43% to 29%.

The Liberal Democrats also performed very well amongst this group with 17% of the vote share. We saw in 2016 that those with a higher education level were overwhelmingly more likely to back remaining in the EU, and this has seemingly transferred into party voting.

The Conservatives won amongst the much larger group of voters who do not hold a degree, however. They outperformed Labour by more than two to one (58% to 25%) amongst those whose highest level of education is GCSE or lower.

Compared to 2017, the Conservatives have improved amongst those without a degree, but performed worse amongst those with a degree or higher. Labour lost voters amongst all three education level groups."

Be careful when you make generalisations without the analysis to back it up !!

If I was to take your approach then I would say that from that analysis the majority of Tory voters have a lower level of education and don't have the same level of understanding, but I won't because that would be generalising

Just because you don't get a degree doesn't make you thick ........................ Just like just because you vote for a certain party doesn't make you thick

Here you go again, making incorrect assumptions

Where did I say Labour voters are thick, is it what you think?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.

Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!

Drakeford better job? Opinion not fact.
Johnson would've done exactly the same? Opnion not fact.
Putting his party before lives. Opinion not fact.
Lastly, Drakeford honest?!

Just answer a simple question for me. With all the information about parties at No10 with Boris in attendance during the 1st lockdown coming out. Can you imagine Drakeford holding similar parties? Just a simple yes or no.

I'd be delighted if Drakeford was partying every night, if he hadn't run the welsh economy, NHS, Ambulances, education system, Cardiff airport and road systems into the ground, being over zealous with unnecessary covid-19 measures, along with all the other failings!!!

Who cares over 50% of the public have have admitted breaking one rule or another, yes of course they shouldn't have done it, but what matters is the state of the country and what it will be like in 20 years time!!!

Makes sense.. working people don’t vote Labour anymore. It’s s party for a certain elite.

Be interesting to know what those studies were, excluding those who studied English or social science.

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense

Hmmmm. I wouldn't normally bring this up but seeing as you are making the point that Labour voters must be thick and just follow the crowd and bring this for you to consider.

The following is from YouGov when analysing to 2019 UK election.

"The highest level of education someone has achieved remains an important dividing line in how people vote. Labour did much better than the Conservatives amongst those who have a degree or higher, by 43% to 29%.

The Liberal Democrats also performed very well amongst this group with 17% of the vote share. We saw in 2016 that those with a higher education level were overwhelmingly more likely to back remaining in the EU, and this has seemingly transferred into party voting.

The Conservatives won amongst the much larger group of voters who do not hold a degree, however. They outperformed Labour by more than two to one (58% to 25%) amongst those whose highest level of education is GCSE or lower.

Compared to 2017, the Conservatives have improved amongst those without a degree, but performed worse amongst those with a degree or higher. Labour lost voters amongst all three education level groups."

Be careful when you make generalisations without the analysis to back it up !!

If I was to take your approach then I would say that from that analysis the majority of Tory voters have a lower level of education and don't have the same level of understanding, but I won't because that would be generalising

Just because you don't get a degree doesn't make you thick ........................ Just like just because you vote for a certain party doesn't make you thick

Here you go again, making incorrect assumptions

Where did I say Labour voters are thick, is it what you think?

I quote “I repeat more than 50% don’t understand politics”.

How condescending, I presume you have a degree in politics to make you so judgmental of 50% of your fellow voters !!

Anything else you need me to point out for you ?

the Assembly got voted through with just over 25% of the electorate - that was about 2,500 votes.

So 50% of the electorate couldnt be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for a Welsh Assembly. You can only conclude that most people either dont want it or cant be bothered to vote, defacto against it.

The result is a pathetic spectacle of a "Govt" responsible for Health and Education. And one party has been in charge of it since the start 26 years by the next Assembly election.

Health and Education and that same party has failed. We are at the bootom (I think) of the education results table. We are also behind on gcse average results.

health - dont get me started here. We are behind in Cancer waiting times, out patient times, the Welsh Ambulance service is a joke - 9 ambulances for Cardiff Vale health board plus 2 paramedic first responders.

Yet - people still vote for the same Labour party election after election. You get the govt you deserve - weve got the utter shower of sh1t.

So 50% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense

Hmmmm. I wouldn't normally bring this up but seeing as you are making the point that Labour voters must be thick and just follow the crowd and bring this for you to consider.

The following is from YouGov when analysing to 2019 UK election.

"The highest level of education someone has achieved remains an important dividing line in how people vote. Labour did much better than the Conservatives amongst those who have a degree or higher, by 43% to 29%.

The Liberal Democrats also performed very well amongst this group with 17% of the vote share. We saw in 2016 that those with a higher education level were overwhelmingly more likely to back remaining in the EU, and this has seemingly transferred into party voting.

The Conservatives won amongst the much larger group of voters who do not hold a degree, however. They outperformed Labour by more than two to one (58% to 25%) amongst those whose highest level of education is GCSE or lower.

Compared to 2017, the Conservatives have improved amongst those without a degree, but performed worse amongst those with a degree or higher. Labour lost voters amongst all three education level groups."

Be careful when you make generalisations without the analysis to back it up !!

If I was to take your approach then I would say that from that analysis the majority of Tory voters have a lower level of education and don't have the same level of understanding, but I won't because that would be generalising

Just because you don't get a degree doesn't make you thick ........................ Just like just because you vote for a certain party doesn't make you thick

Here you go again, making incorrect assumptions

Where did I say Labour voters are thick, is it what you think?

I quote “I repeat more than 50% don’t understand politics”.

How condescending, I presume you have a degree in politics to make you so judgmental of 50% of your fellow voters !!

Anything else you need me to point out for you ?

Yes point out how that translates to "Labour voters must be thick" ?

Bearing in mind the full reply was "So 50% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to vote. Of the remaining 50% the vote was split 26% / 24%

I repeat more than 50% of the population don't understand politics, so that makes sense "

What has labour done for the valleys in all the time they have been in power in Wales ,the valleys still one of the most deprived areas in the UK ,our nhs has longer waiting times for A&E and people waiting for surgery ,our league tables for schools are worse than England and A level students are made to do Welsh bacc which takes away an option of a subject they want to do because of the work load,you wait and see as well they now got the power down the bay to rise taxes when they want a pay rise,before COVID was here I waited 18months from the time I seen my GP for kidney stones before I had appointment in the hospital , labour need to practice what they preach there quick enough to stand up in Westminster and shout.their f@@@ing hypocrites

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.

That's the way it is Butty boy
I don't like paying for a peado prince
or an English Prince of Wales..

You’re not.. loosely, they’re paying for you.

Nationalism is a curse that never ends well. The Welsh patriots who despise England so much, call for funding from Westminster to cease. It’s dirty paedo Prince money in a foreign language. And we can’t have that in Wales. Devolve tax to WAG and be free.

Why did Chris Bryant Rhonda MP have to stand up in Westminster and ask Boris for help with the coal tips because the people are really worried about another landslide ,it was because he had been in touch with drakeford the Welsh government and that won't do nothing about it ,Boris reply to him was that's the responsibility of the Welsh government bit I will phone them and see if there is anything I can do ,that's how much wag care abouttgr people of the valleys ,if you don't believe this Google it I'm sure footage can be found of it

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

And this explains why Wales is a failing state.

I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it
Onwards and downwards (!) to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.

That's the way it is Butty boy
I don't like paying for a peado prince
or an English Prince of Wales..

Nor me.
My post was in response to the blood and soil Nationalism saying only pure born Welshmen should have a say in Welsh politics. An attitude that smacks of National Socialism of National Socialism to me

Why did Chris Bryant Rhonda MP have to stand up in Westminster and ask Boris for help with the coal tips because the people are really worried about another landslide ,it was because he had been in touch with drakeford the Welsh government and that won't do nothing about it ,Boris reply to him was that's the responsibility of the Welsh government bit I will phone them and see if there is anything I can do ,that's how much wag care abouttgr people of the valleys ,if you don't believe this Google it I'm sure footage can be found of it

He did this because the coal tips and their upkeep are not a devolved matter, which is why he asked thE question in Parliament, as a UK MP. The UK became VERY rich and powerful on the back of a LOT of Welsh coal and workers suffering, fine. We all know that. But a mess was left behind. NO Coal mines were open when the Assembly as it was then, opened. So, you're saying that all that wealth was taken out of Wales to benefit the whole of thE UK and now we should find money to pay for it ourselves, even when it's not our responsibility. And even though UK Govnt money is OUR money too. We all pay into teh same pot. Remember, Wales is not an independent country, it's still in the uk. I'd say, the UK Govnt if it truly is for all the UK should step up. But all the Wales haters will say it's a handout ! as if Wales and welsh people don't contribute to anything ?

Renton says it best, just replace Scottish with Welsh and you're pretty much there.

It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the f*cking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any f*cking difference.

Lose the inferiority complex