M4 Relief road cancelled

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

I think we should go whole hog tbh. If we are going to abolish our national parliament (because of a decision made by the government ), we should just give up as a nation.

Giving power back to unelected officials in London would, and should, be the death of us.

Let’s just have a referendum on the nation itself. So the National Assembly yes, but also the national sports teams too. How does that sound? We can’t pick and choose as far as I’m concerned. We either have spines, or we cut them out

Unelected officials in London ???
Think you’ll find the unelected officials are in Brussels.

I have absolutely no doubt this crucial bit of infrastructure would have been started in the 90's if the Tories hadn't lost the 97 election. Labour inherited a booming economy and achieved next to f**k all with it.

I’m all for binning HS2 and spending the money on the Severn Barrage, the road link on it would reduce traffic volume on the existing M4.

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

I think we should go whole hog tbh. If we are going to abolish our national parliament (because of a decision made by the government ), we should just give up as a nation.

Giving power back to unelected officials in London would, and should, be the death of us.

Let’s just have a referendum on the nation itself. So the National Assembly yes, but also the national sports teams too. How does that sound? We can’t pick and choose as far as I’m concerned. We either have spines, or we cut them out

Unelected officials in London ???
Think you’ll find the unelected officials are in Brussels.

I have absolutely no doubt this crucial bit of infrastructure would have been started in the 90's if the Tories hadn't lost the 97 election. Labour inherited a booming economy and achieved next to f**k all with it.

I’m all for binning HS2 and spending the money on the Severn Barrage, the road link on it would reduce traffic volume on the existing M4.

I appreciate its a hell of a cost and there's a debate to be had over why construction costs particularly in infrastructure are outstripping inflation by 3 or 4 times. However I think we need these lines as much for capacity as for speed. The existing trains are full and the old network is at or close to capacity.

If we're serious about moving people out of cars then trains need to be hugely more affordable and the higher frequency these dedicated high speed lines allow will go someway towards that. It will also free up some of the existing network to get more freight off the roads.

As for the Severn Barrage these projects shouldn't be either or but able to stand on their own two feet in terms of viability.

If the barrage provides 2 uses then hopefully the viability is possibly more easily achieved. Its just that power generation seems difficult to justify currently although to be honest with power generation they should be looking well into the future, possibly 50 years. I doubt the environmentalists would be happy with a barrage. Perhaps we should get the First Minister to ask Greta if its OK with her.

Bore a tunnel from Malpas to Coldre... Protects the environment and boosts the economy. Only need one tunnel.

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

YES was shoved down our throats in the original referendum. and still only just crawled over the line..

Like Brexit you mean.

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

YES was shoved down our throats in the original referendum. and still only just crawled over the line..

Like Brexit you mean.

Kind of but the losers didn't try to prevent or ignore the result they let democracy happen.

Hmmmm,some of us remember when the M25 was touted as the answer to London's traffic congestion. Not guaranteed to fix the problem and to date no businesses had signed to help with the cost.That would be left to the WAG to levy the cost on us with their new tax raising powers.Too many glib comments.

You think the M25 was a waste, that's your argument??

I dread to think of London without the M25.

Having used that very road this Monday morning, I tend to agree. It was slow (8am) but still a lot better than the stationery traffic on the roads I could see overhead

Glib comments are ones like snaggy's, who cannot see the bigger picture for Wales as a whole. Newport is an environmental and topographical bottle neck that needs to be remedied

I agree something needs to be done,but not at the environmental cost or without those that will benefit most contributing something.And WP I don't think the M25 was a waste at all.it makes a great car-park.How's that for a glib comment.

What's the environmental cost? Same as they said about Cardiff bay Except that the disaster they predicted didn't happen in fact it's well documented that wildlife as thrived a mile away since it was built? Wildlife got great habit of adapting if care is taken to minimise effects.. pollution wise whats worse thousands of cars stuck in traffic jams every day or thousands of cars moving it's a simple choice but reality! What is not an option is doing nothing Which environmentalists prefer

Just for the record - the wildlife didn't move one mile away, some of the more adaptable species moved to the Gwent Levels some 15 or so miles away to the very sites which were at threat from this road. One of the big problems with the route proposed was that it would pass through a unique habitat where the effect of it being destroyed could not be minimized. Not passing judgement here but please try and get the facts right...

Also went to mud flats on rover way/wentloog how far is that from bay? Point is wildlife adapts doesnt it or wouldn't get pedigree Falcons in centre of London? But take point about route but that begs question why go somewhere where it would cause most problems? Someone didn't want rd built bit like Brexit put in an insurmountable situation and hey presto doesnt happen....

The species that left the bay have never really recolonized anywhere along our coast. Those at Wentlooge/Rover Way are a very small percentage of what was present previously. As I said I'm not passing judgement as I too have spent hours sat in M4 jams at Newport. As pembroke allan rightly points out - why did they choose this route in the first place, knowing it would be an environmental catastrophe as well as being the most expensive option. Brown Envelopes come to mind...

Hmmmm,some of us remember when the M25 was touted as the answer to London's traffic congestion. Not guaranteed to fix the problem and to date no businesses had signed to help with the cost.That would be left to the WAG to levy the cost on us with their new tax raising powers.Too many glib comments.

You think the M25 was a waste, that's your argument??

I dread to think of London without the M25.

Having used that very road this Monday morning, I tend to agree. It was slow (8am) but still a lot better than the stationery traffic on the roads I could see overhead

Glib comments are ones like snaggy's, who cannot see the bigger picture for Wales as a whole. Newport is an environmental and topographical bottle neck that needs to be remedied

I agree something needs to be done,but not at the environmental cost or without those that will benefit most contributing something.And WP I don't think the M25 was a waste at all.it makes a great car-park.How's that for a glib comment.

What's the environmental cost? Same as they said about Cardiff bay Except that the disaster they predicted didn't happen in fact it's well documented that wildlife as thrived a mile away since it was built? Wildlife got great habit of adapting if care is taken to minimise effects.. pollution wise whats worse thousands of cars stuck in traffic jams every day or thousands of cars moving it's a simple choice but reality! What is not an option is doing nothing Which environmentalists prefer

Just for the record - the wildlife didn't move one mile away, some of the more adaptable species moved to the Gwent Levels some 15 or so miles away to the very sites which were at threat from this road. One of the big problems with the route proposed was that it would pass through a unique habitat where the effect of it being destroyed could not be minimized. Not passing judgement here but please try and get the facts right...

Also went to mud flats on rover way/wentloog how far is that from bay? Point is wildlife adapts doesnt it or wouldn't get pedigree Falcons in centre of London? But take point about route but that begs question why go somewhere where it would cause most problems? Someone didn't want rd built bit like Brexit put in an insurmountable situation and hey presto doesnt happen....

The species that left the bay have never really recolonized anywhere along our coast. Those at Wentlooge/Rover Way are a very small percentage of what was present previously. As I said I'm not passing judgement as I too have spent hours sat in M4 jams at Newport. As pembroke allan rightly points out - why did they choose this route in the first place, knowing it would be an environmental catastrophe as well as being the most expensive option. Brown Envelopes come to mind...

You can argue about the effect on wildlife at the bay but think the telling thing is no environmentalists have raised it regarding relief rd maybe it's because the effects wasn't the disaster they predicted? Anyway the newest astonishing fact is £114m was actually wasted by wag for 1st minister to reject plan! not sure they could cross the road without boy scout leading the way they are that inept..... now saying can utilise a465 for Midlands traffic mmm just spent 400m on it but still have the bottleneck that is the Monmouth stretch to m50! They are clutching at straws because there is 3 options do nothing which is not a reality option,
bypass Newport altogether and maybe there is a 3rd way in the 28 options being looked at? If of course 1st minister likes idea put forward or brown envelope is fat enough....?

YES was shoved down our throats in the original referendum. and still only just crawled over the line..[/quote]

Like Brexit you mean. [/quote]

Well, one voted yes to being run by the bedwetters, the other rejected it.

By that measure Sneg, you’re for a 2nd referendum on the Wag..

I would absolutely love a 2nd referendum to vote these parasites out.I and many like me rue not voting in that referendum.

I would absolutely love a 2nd referendum to vote these parasites out.I and many like me rue not voting in that referendum.

Struggle to find what use they are besides wasting our money ?

I would absolutely love a 2nd referendum to vote these parasites out.I and many like me rue not voting in that referendum.

Struggle to find what use they are besides wasting our money ?

I see they've now announced they will not respect the result of the EU referendum and will campaign to remain. Pretty much were anyway but its a stark reality when the governing party decides to actively pursue a course of overturning the result.

I would absolutely love a 2nd referendum to vote these parasites out.I and many like me rue not voting in that referendum.

Struggle to find what use they are besides wasting our money ?

I see they've now announced they will not respect the result of the EU referendum and will campaign to remain. Pretty much were anyway but its a stark reality when the governing party decides to actively pursue a course of overturning the result.

That's been their stance all along! But think people need to read about the report on relief rd the one that was ignored? It makes interesting reading regarding why other options was turned down, it turns out the new commission is supposed to look at the 28 options looked in report but only problem is 8 have been dropped so 1st minister doesnt even know anything about what he is supposed to be commissioning for?

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

He failed in his other posts just like several other AMS who managed to get into higher positions having failed in previous depts.. only decision he could make is pay rise for the rabble.

We have absolute Muppets in charge sadly. Career failures yet manage to wangle top jobs like that where they affect not only their own locality but also ours.
He is like Christian Slater in Austin powers waiting for the steam roller.
Over promoted and under skilled.

first proposed in 1991.
are they real.

I wish there was a campaign for a 2nd assembly referendum

Why, so England can run us cuck?

As you have pointed out, the decision goes back pre Assembly and to a Tory Gov in Westminster.

Also, you absolute pleb, it was the Welsh Labour Government who made the decision. Had you bothered to watch proceedings in the Assembly, you would have seen the majority of AMs going mad at this decision.

You understand the difference between a legislature and executive? You understand the difference between a country and an English county? Cos that’s what you’d relegate Wales to.

It's been put forward 4 times from 91 so really doesnt matter who cancelled it it still bad decision especially as no plan b c or d in place? Besides it shows how pathetic wag is to allow one moron to decide such a massive decision?

Firstly, it hasnt been called the WAG for years. You mean the WG.

Secondly, it was the cabinet who made the collective decision (with the First Minister steering it).

This is the exact same way that decisions are made in Westminster and across the western world.

Don’t like Drakeford, vote him out. Neil McEvoy has a real chance of taking his seat in Cardiff West

first proposed in 1991.
are they real.

I wish there was a campaign for a 2nd assembly referendum

Why, so England can run us cuck?

As you have pointed out, the decision goes back pre Assembly and to a Tory Gov in Westminster.

Also, you absolute pleb, it was the Welsh Labour Government who made the decision. Had you bothered to watch proceedings in the Assembly, you would have seen the majority of AMs going mad at this decision.

You understand the difference between a legislature and executive? You understand the difference between a country and an English county? Cos that’s what you’d relegate Wales to.

we were an English county before we had the WAG ?

and the west minster government did not make the decision...it was made today ..you do know the difference between a proposal and a decision do you not ?.

1/ proposed then decided against. Think you clever, look stupid

2/ Well no, can a nation exist without its own parliament and body politic? What kind of nation outsources it’s politics to another country? We barely existed pre Welsh Parliament. WAG hasn’t existed for years

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

I think we should go whole hog tbh. If we are going to abolish our national parliament (because of a decision made by the government ), we should just give up as a nation.

Giving power back to unelected officials in London would, and should, be the death of us.

Let’s just have a referendum on the nation itself. So the National Assembly yes, but also the national sports teams too. How does that sound? We can’t pick and choose as far as I’m concerned. We either have spines, or we cut them out

Unelected officials in London ???
Think you’ll find the unelected officials are in Brussels.

Think you’ll find they are the same thing

Yep, second referendum for me. This Welsh Govt has been stuffed with cretins from day one.
Drakeford is just the latest of them. Only in Labour Wales can a social worker run the place(or not, as is the case).

They have to go.

I think we should go whole hog tbh. If we are going to abolish our national parliament (because of a decision made by the government ), we should just give up as a nation.

Giving power back to unelected officials in London would, and should, be the death of us.

Let’s just have a referendum on the nation itself. So the National Assembly yes, but also the national sports teams too. How does that sound? We can’t pick and choose as far as I’m concerned. We either have spines, or we cut them out

Unelected officials in London ???
Think you’ll find the unelected officials are in Brussels.

I have absolutely no doubt this crucial bit of infrastructure would have been started in the 90's if the Tories hadn't lost the 97 election. Labour inherited a booming economy and achieved next to f**k all with it.

The same Tories who just cancelled rail electrification (leaving Wales the only nation in Western Europe without it)
The same Tories who scrapped the tidal lagoon?
The same Tories who spent billions on cross rail and HS2 and claim that it benefits Wales
The same Tories who spent more on Buckingham Palace than Wales in the last budget

I could go on... but why would I argue with someone in Epping

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

He failed in his other posts just like several other AMS who managed to get into higher positions having failed in previous depts.. only decision he could make is pay rise for the rabble.

Pay rise was by an independent body. Many AMs were against it. Many, to this day, give the extra to charity

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

He failed in his other posts just like several other AMS who managed to get into higher positions having failed in previous depts.. only decision he could make is pay rise for the rabble.

Pay rise was by an independent body. Many AMs were against it. Many, to this day, give the extra to charity

Yes I know but funny how it was well above inflation not like other workers pay rises! Was jokingly saying only decision he could make not that he made it....

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

Agreed. We are absolutely unique in being the only nation in the world who is too poor, too small and too thick to govern itself independently.

We just need the might English to do it for us. 100%

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

Agreed. We are absolutely unique in being the only nation in the world who is too poor, too small and too thick to govern itself independently.

We just need the might English to do it for us. 100%

Do you actually believe we can be independent?

As someone who voted for devolution believing that Welsh people controlling our own destiny would be a good thing how I've been proven wrong. Don't understand everything about politics but I do realise these lying buffoons will say anything to get their seat.
They throw money at things in consultation then don't deliver. Just paying for them to talk jargon shit and then us taxpayers fork out their expenses.
A bad decision in my eyes with no long term benefit to the Welsh economy

More tax payers money gone !!!

As someone who voted for devolution believing that Welsh people controlling our own destiny would be a good thing how I've been proven wrong. Don't understand everything about politics but I do realise these lying buffoons will say anything to get their seat.
They throw money at things in consultation then don't deliver. Just paying for them to talk jargon shit and then us taxpayers fork out their expenses.
A bad decision in my eyes with no long term benefit to the Welsh economy

Enquiry chairman gave reasons why should have black route and reasons shouldn't have other routes but drakeford ignores this and rejected black in favour of looking at other routes that was rejected? Where is logic or sense in doing that?

As someone who voted for devolution believing that Welsh people controlling our own destiny would be a good thing how I've been proven wrong. Don't understand everything about politics but I do realise these lying buffoons will say anything to get their seat.
They throw money at things in consultation then don't deliver. Just paying for them to talk jargon shit and then us taxpayers fork out their expenses.
A bad decision in my eyes with no long term benefit to the Welsh economy

Enquiry chairman gave reasons why should have black route and reasons shouldn't have other routes but drakeford ignores this and rejected black in favour of looking at other routes that was rejected? Where is logic or sense in doing that?

He's only in post for a strawberry picking season, so I wonder if he's just protecting his own legacy, i.e. happy with the title but not being blamed for such a momentous decision as giving the go ahead for a controversial (to some pretty vocal groups) project like that?

As someone who voted for devolution believing that Welsh people controlling our own destiny would be a good thing how I've been proven wrong. Don't understand everything about politics but I do realise these lying buffoons will say anything to get their seat.
They throw money at things in consultation then don't deliver. Just paying for them to talk jargon shit and then us taxpayers fork out their expenses.
A bad decision in my eyes with no long term benefit to the Welsh economy

Enquiry chairman gave reasons why should have black route and reasons shouldn't have other routes but drakeford ignores this and rejected black in favour of looking at other routes that was rejected? Where is logic or sense in doing that?

He's only in post for a strawberry picking season, so I wonder if he's just protecting his own legacy, i.e. happy with the title but not being blamed for such a momentous decision as giving the go ahead for a controversial (to some pretty vocal groups) project like that?

Think whole situation was manipulated by labour AMS? funny how called a climate emergency other week and tomorrow is some environmental day being supported by wag so politically giving go ahead was untenable! A Spineless prat just like predisessor who opted out of making a decision when had chance and leave it to a person who by own admission was against plan all along.

As someone who voted for devolution believing that Welsh people controlling our own destiny would be a good thing how I've been proven wrong. Don't understand everything about politics but I do realise these lying buffoons will say anything to get their seat.
They throw money at things in consultation then don't deliver. Just paying for them to talk jargon shit and then us taxpayers fork out their expenses.
A bad decision in my eyes with no long term benefit to the Welsh economy

Turned out to be one very expensive chat room that we are all paying for. Complete waste of money as far as I am concerned. I can't really complain too much, I was one of many who did not bother to vote, and have to accept the result of a democratic procedure.

Say what you like about him but he is doing a good job to highlight why we shouldn't be independent. Can you imagine if he was responsible for all the decisions?!

Agreed. We are absolutely unique in being the only nation in the world who is too poor, too small and too thick to govern itself independently.

We just need the might English to do it for us. 100%

To thick? Mean things to say about your fellow country folk.

Are you suggesting we give up all our MPs to allow England full control over parliament for us?? That's one way to get rid of labours monopoly I guess but personally I think having representation is a good thing. To each their own.