' Bring the Grange End back '

Phoenix Blue totally agree with your post. Can't remember the year v West Brom away 3-3 draw. Most Cardiff fans missed the 2 goals Cardiff scored in first 10 minutes. Everybody stood whole game in stand behind goals about 3 yards between fans with thin line of stewards. West Brom home fantastic vociferous support continuous the whole game. Cardiff weren't bad either. I was standing at the back right next to the home fans. Atmosphere electric, I did not see any problems the whole game. Banter was brilliant. In my opinion, everybody enjoyed, no trouble. Surprising really because Cardiff fans were told to rendezvous with Police at services on the M6. We then had a tour in convoy around an industrial estate and deposited outside ground 10 minutes before kick off. 2000 Cardiff fans to get through 4 turnstiles 10 minutes before kick off. We ran up a banking and were first in to be welcomed by a blanket of noise from the home fans who must have thought we weren't coming.
After the game we walked back to the buses to be met by hundreds of people dressed as robocops, batons drawn and snarling dogs. It was surreal but what a fantastic day with no hint of trouble with very little police presence inside ground. It is all about perceptions where Cardiff fans are involved.
In this day and age, anybody who behaves in a threating manner in or around a football ground is asking to be jailed. Even the most stupid supporter is not going to risk going to jail with the CC they have in operation. Admittedly, there will be on a very odd occasion when one beauty will do something stupid, but these are isolated individual occurrences which happen in all walks of life.
What happens on the field is important but to a slightly lesser extent the interaction between the fans and perceived competition who can make the most noise off it, is also important. Oh and I almost forgot the banter, the fans have a role also, to support the team. From what I have seen down there in the last couple of years a lot of fans have forgotten this. WBA away was definitely a "Bring the Grange End back" day.

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs ? But in our stadium the vocals don't travel very well. So the canton can't hear the away fans and vice versa. Most stadiums the sound carries but unless ours is full to the brim the accustics are awful. Anyhow best for the kids if they can't hear what is being sung if they are moved to the Canton. Hope this explains my reasons Chief.

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs ? But in our stadium the vocals don't travel very well. So the canton can't hear the away fans and vice versa. Most stadiums the sound carries but unless ours is full to the brim the accustics are awful. Anyhow best for the kids if they can't hear what is being sung if they are moved to the Canton. Hope this explains my reasons Chief.

I gave a few examples of clubs earlier in this thread. For lots of others,if you look on the internet at the Football Grounds Guide website you can see each club's ground layout. Then you can see many clubs where away fans are a long way from the home " singing section" and it doesn't adversely impact on their atmosphere.

The kids will always be able to hear bad language wherever they sit in the ground.

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs are these? European clubs? Different culture, different breed of fans - ultras. we haven't got an organised group of ultras. Ccfc fans habe always thrived on the competition and banter with away fans. It's nothing to do with other clubs..

No, not just European clubs. How many clubs in the Premier or Football Leagues have away fans sections next to the most vociferous home fans?

I'm not sure, but as far as I'm concerned atmosphere in many premier league stadiums are shit too.

But we're not premier league are we? We're not stoke or whoever else. We're Cardiff city and like I said we've always loved having a bit of back and forth with the away fans. I couldn't give a f**k about any other club.

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs are these? European clubs? Different culture, different breed of fans - ultras. we haven't got an organised group of ultras. Ccfc fans habe always thrived on the competition and banter with away fans. It's nothing to do with other clubs..

No, not just European clubs. How many clubs in the Premier or Football Leagues have away fans sections next to the most vociferous home fans?

I'm not sure, but as far as I'm concerned atmosphere in many premier league stadiums are shit too.

But we're not premier league are we? We're not stoke or whoever else. We're Cardiff city and like I said we've always loved having a bit of back and forth with the away fans. I couldn't give a f**k about any other club.

No we are not Premier League. Look at the reference in this thread to other ground layouts in the Championship. They also don't feel the need for this " back and forth" with other fans or feel the need to relocate large numbers of fans and rearrange security arrangements which work so well as they are just to pander to the wishes of a few.

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs ? But in our stadium the vocals don't travel very well. So the canton can't hear the away fans and vice versa. Most stadiums the sound carries but unless ours is full to the brim the accustics are awful. Anyhow best for the kids if they can't hear what is being sung if they are moved to the Canton. Hope this explains my reasons Chief.

I gave a few examples of clubs earlier in this thread. For lots of others,if you look on the internet at the Football Grounds Guide website you can see each club's ground layout. Then you can see many clubs where away fans are a long way from the home " singing section" and it doesn't adversely impact on their atmosphere.

The kids will always be able to hear bad language wherever they sit in the ground.

I can see your point about other clubs like Liverpool etc just to mention one. But as I said the vocals just don't carry in our ground so there is no chance of any banter. And that is important in my view maybe not yours and I respect that. Football is about having banter be it in the pub or ground, and it certainly helps with atmosphere. Unless our ground is full it's crap. So moving the ends will help a lot.

There are some good argument's on both sides on this one to be fair.

It is true that you don't have to be next to the away fans to create an atmosphere but it certainly can help, take Derby as an example, it's one of the Away grounds I have most enjoyed visiting since they reconfigured the ground putting the away fans in the corner next to where the more vociferous Derby fans stand, it's created a good atmosphere with both sets of fans trying to out sing each other.

The clincher for me though in why the end's should be swapped is because the Family Stand should not be next to the Away Fans. A lady I worked with has not been down since Birmingham the season before last after trouble where she said she just didn't feel safe and I have hered a number of times people say they have felt intimidated being so close to the away fans whilst have their kids with them. Even taking aside the argument to switch the ends, surely we can agree that putting the family stand right in the eye line and ear shot of the away fans was a ridiculous thing to do

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs are these? European clubs? Different culture, different breed of fans - ultras. we haven't got an organised group of ultras. Ccfc fans habe always thrived on the competition and banter with away fans. It's nothing to do with other clubs..

No, not just European clubs. How many clubs in the Premier or Football Leagues have away fans sections next to the most vociferous home fans?

I'm not sure, but as far as I'm concerned atmosphere in many premier league stadiums are shit too.

But we're not premier league are we? We're not stoke or whoever else. We're Cardiff city and like I said we've always loved having a bit of back and forth with the away fans. I couldn't give a f**k about any other club.

No we are not Premier League. Look at the reference in this thread to other ground layouts in the Championship. They also don't feel the need for this " back and forth" with other fans or feel the need to relocate large numbers of fans and rearrange security arrangements which work so well as they are just to pander to the wishes of a few.

How the hell do you know what the fans from these clubs think? Didn't Chelsea recently relocate their singing section to revive their atmosphere? I'm sure there's lots of clubs thay feel the same. It's general knowledge that atmospheres are waning.

But don't worry if it happens you can still enjoy your bovril in exactly the same seat or one with an equal view (yes the stadium is round with lots of spare seats).

But we're never going to agree as your a self proclaimed prawn sandwich club member so we could argue all day. You actually like the ground quieter... I despair...

The reason why the club went down the route of putting the Grange Enders as far from visiting fans was they were trying to distance themselves from the reputation that Ninian Park had. To make it a more plesent experience for the away fan and a new image for the club.
But after our first game at the CCS with Bristol City a mate of mine who is BCFC said to me he hated it there, his words were no atmosphere and he felt SAFE !! He said he missed feeling shit scared like he did at Ninian Park and wished we stayed there.
But the fans love a rousing atmosphere and so does the players and Managers, the away fans love banter as much as we do, so why can't we change it back ? More Police costs they say !! But the CCTV is so good they can zoom in on you reading a match programme and read the friggin text so if anyone Miss behaves then they deserve it. And with the threat of banning orders I can't see a problem. Just I feel the club is being very stubborn on this issue IMO and for once the should listen to the paying public.
West Ham ain't doing us no favours at the moment but they are having trouble every game now and that includes. Them fighting each other as well.

You haven't done the argument for switching ends at the ground any favours at all. Indeed you have shown why the club should oppose it strongly. In case it hasn't registered why, your argument is that the atmosphere should change so that away fans can "enjoy" being shit scared.

It's what makes some grounds better to visit. I know I enjoy away's that are a tad "spicy"

Exactly do you as an away fan want to go to a soulless bowl, and with the singers so far away you would need binoculars ? No you want atmosphere and banter with the home fans. I ain't talking about scrapping with each other I'm on about banter and getting an atmosphere.

I asked earlier in this thread how it is that clubs that are renowned for a tremendous atmosphere can do this without putting the more vociferous home fans next to the away fans. No one has even attempted to answer the question.

What clubs are these? European clubs? Different culture, different breed of fans - ultras. we haven't got an organised group of ultras. Ccfc fans habe always thrived on the competition and banter with away fans. It's nothing to do with other clubs..

No, not just European clubs. How many clubs in the Premier or Football Leagues have away fans sections next to the most vociferous home fans?

I'm not sure, but as far as I'm concerned atmosphere in many premier league stadiums are shit too.

But we're not premier league are we? We're not stoke or whoever else. We're Cardiff city and like I said we've always loved having a bit of back and forth with the away fans. I couldn't give a f**k about any other club.

No we are not Premier League. Look at the reference in this thread to other ground layouts in the Championship. They also don't feel the need for this " back and forth" with other fans or feel the need to relocate large numbers of fans and rearrange security arrangements which work so well as they are just to pander to the wishes of a few.

How the hell do you know what the fans from these clubs think? Didn't Chelsea recently relocate their singing section to revive their atmosphere? I'm sure there's lots of clubs thay feel the same. It's general knowledge that atmospheres are waning.

But don't worry if it happens you can still enjoy your bovril in exactly the same seat or one with an equal view (yes the stadium is round with lots of spare seats).

But we're never going to agree as your a self proclaimed prawn sandwich club member so we could argue all day. You actually like the ground quieter... I despair...

1) what I said was that all those clubs don`t feel the need for the "back and forth" with away fans or their ground layouts would reflect this. Do you have any evidence of a different view or just an opinion (nothing at all wrong with opinions , just as long as they don`t get confused with facts)

2) I can`t remember the last time I had a Bovril , let alone in the ground (do they sell them in the ground?)

3) In my 55 years as a fan of Cardiff City , I have never been a "prawn sandwich club member" so I can hardly be a "self proclaimed" one. Where do you get this misinformation from?

4) I don`t like the ground quieter . I would love to see it more noisy. I just firmly believe that this can be done easily with the current ground layout , like other clubs manage.

Based on the above 4 points , your "despair" appears to be misplaced and based on a misunderstanding of the facts.

Anything else I can help clarify for you?