1948s weekly poll - Welsh Independence

Wales to become a mini-powerhouse? Loads of nations of similar size/population, who are wealthy, and working. Why can't Wales? Labour and the Conservatives are our two major parties. Personally, I would love to see us go independent, someday. I served in the British Army, and ever since leaving in 2010, I have felt very "Welsh not British". We are not cared about, we are not classed as a "part of the Union", we are merely dismissed as a "part of England".

Who says Wales would not survive? We could trade with countries on our own behalf, we could join the European Union (if/when Britain leaves), and we would set our own laws. I think it could work, if we maintain close links with the European Union, and the USA. Wales would just need to heavily invest in a production, to provide work, and resources to mass export. Sadly, that would be our downfall, as electricity is the only natural resources we have masses of (created by wind-turbines).

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

I think you make a lot of good points. We have become the poor man of Britain, not because we are inferior in any way to the rest of the UK, but because we have been very badly treated by London governments. The resultant effect is that many Welsh people now feel scared to go it alone, fearful of possible failure and the negative consequences. It results, for many, in a subconscious inferiority complex. Our collective mindset tells us we would be better off by staying as we are.

That's bollocks ,the problem is we get a budget but spend it. On vanity projects rather than the real problems of the nhs and housing

Sadly a lot of the posts on here reflect the brainwashing of the British media which largely ignores Wales. Look at the interest and extra support and powers given to Scotland. You hardly ever hear of any Welsh issues - we are an after thought.

Using the logic of some on here In Glasgow they should have just said "we've got more in common with Liverpool".

As for the post saying his Welshness extends to supporting the Welsh in football only etc - you should hang your head! In my book thats not really not Welsh at all nor is it really English. Maybe "without roots "? "Taeog?

The " Welsh speaking Wales v non Welsh speaking Wales is a case of swallowing " the divide and rule" mentality.I was brought up in Llanrumney not speaking Welsh. I dont think less of anyone who is non Welsh speaking Welsh. (Although I would want them to give their children the opportunity)

Also we should judge people as people and that is unaffected by whether they speak Welsh or not. Similarly I dont judge individuals because they are Welsh or English.But I am proud to be Welsh and we need to stand up and be counted!

(Although I did think the rant about salaries in the Assembly and the fixed devolution vote / Ron Davies etc was very funny

Yma o hyd

I agree with everything you say. It saddens me that so many Welsh people have been brainwashed by the British media, in many cases to such an extent that they almost become anti-Welsh. The language is possibly the biggest single factor in dividing us. For some reason many people who don't speak Welsh are suspicious of Welsh speakers. They think of them as some sort of secret club who will look out for each other and take all the best jobs and at the same time force the Welsh language onto non Welsh speakers. I don't speak Welsh myself but I don't resent or distrust Welsh speakers and I certainly don't feel any less Welsh for not speaking the language. We are too small a country to be divided. We all need to pull together, cast off any inferiority complex caused perhaps by dependency upon handouts from Westminster and prove to the world that we are, with the appropriate levers of power, able to generate the income that we spend as a country. That's not about independence, it's simply about pride.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

I think you make a lot of good points. We have become the poor man of Britain, not because we are inferior in any way to the rest of the UK, but because we have been very badly treated by London governments. The resultant effect is that many Welsh people now feel scared to go it alone, fearful of possible failure and the negative consequences. It results, for many, in a subconscious inferiority complex. Our collective mindset tells us we would be better off by staying as we are.

That's bollocks ,the problem is we get a budget but spend it. On vanity projects rather than the real problems of the nhs and housing

Roughly how much has been spent on vanity projects in Wales? Can you tell us? A vanity project is the £3 billion to £7 billion it has been projected it will cost to renovate the Palace of Westminster.

Wales could not run itself end.

We take a lot of money from the UK coffers and for Wales to be able to run itself it would have to raise the tax levels to silly levels. Add to that we have high unemployment and low wages and a country that is obsessed with a dead language

Game over

Nearly 600,000 speakers says otherwise . . .

Just an example... I work with customers from all over Wales and we use a system where they supply us details either in Welsh or English

I can tell you that 99.5% of the time the English option is used. North Wales same thing 99.5 %, even they don't want to us Welsh day to day

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

I think you make a lot of good points. We have become the poor man of Britain, not because we are inferior in any way to the rest of the UK, but because we have been very badly treated by London governments. The resultant effect is that many Welsh people now feel scared to go it alone, fearful of possible failure and the negative consequences. It results, for many, in a subconscious inferiority complex. Our collective mindset tells us we would be better off by staying as we are.

That's bollocks ,the problem is we get a budget but spend it. On vanity projects rather than the real problems of the nhs and housing

Roughly how much has been spent on vanity projects in Wales? Can you tell us? A vanity project is the £3 billion to £7 billion it has been projected it will cost to renovate the Palace of Westminster.

Bad example. Westminster is our house of parliament, it's currently crumbling down and is in bad need of repair.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

I think you make a lot of good points. We have become the poor man of Britain, not because we are inferior in any way to the rest of the UK, but because we have been very badly treated by London governments. The resultant effect is that many Welsh people now feel scared to go it alone, fearful of possible failure and the negative consequences. It results, for many, in a subconscious inferiority complex. Our collective mindset tells us we would be better off by staying as we are.

That's bollocks ,the problem is we get a budget but spend it. On vanity projects rather than the real problems of the nhs and housing

Roughly how much has been spent on vanity projects in Wales? Can you tell us? A vanity project is the £3 billion to £7 billion it has been projected it will cost to renovate the Palace of Westminster.

Bad example. Westminster is our house of parliament, it's currently crumbling down and is in bad need of repair.

Good example. If the building is fucked knock it down. £7billion to repair it....immoral.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Spending £7,000,000,000 to mend a crumbling building....let's be realistic for a second.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Spending £7,000,000,000 to mend a crumbling building....let's be realistic for a second.

Spending 7bn to mend a crumbling building, a building known across the world with centuries of history and arguably the most important building in the country. Yeah lets knock it down.

So it seems we should be gratefulto stay in Britain and be grateful to our English overlords.
Look at the news this week .....
nearly 1000 jobs going in Port Talbot. Whether one believes this inevitable or not, it nows seems the Government are going to REACT. Why not be proactive? No votes for the rich Tories in the Welsh valleys and not enough power in the labour led Welsh Assembly to do more than empathise and pose.
Look at the this week!
National parks in England guaranteed no reduction in funding for the next 5 years c/f those in Wales have a 5% reduction this year
Look at this week......
Millions extra to teach immigrants English and 5% reduction in funding for Welsh!
The same people on here that want the Welsh to know their place are the ones who will argue that leaving Europe will save the UK money and is therefore in Wales interests. We will be better off by being run by little Englanders!! NOT.
"We are not capable of doing things ourselves and not able to think for ourselves" i.e. If you tell a child time after time that its no good and will not amount to anything in the end he|she will lose all confidence and probably won't.
Stand up for Wales!
What unites us as a people is far more important than differences between regions.
We have a culture, a language, and reasons to be PROUD of our roots and our community spirit. It is not just a history to be proud of, it can also be a future!
Yma o hyd.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Spending £7,000,000,000 to mend a crumbling building....let's be realistic for a second.

1000s of tourists visit London each year to see building like Westminster. It brings in ££££ as does keeping the royal family.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Spending £7,000,000,000 to mend a crumbling building....let's be realistic for a second.

1000s of tourists visit London each year to see building like Westminster. It brings in ££££ as does keeping the royal family.

Agree it's millions who come

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Yes

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

I agree with a lot of that, but remember in general our second grade leaders work in the assembly.
Imagine what a Lloyd George or Aneurin Bevan could do for the people of Wales!

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Agree ,we need a few ukip ams just to mix things up

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Agree ,we need a few ukip ams just to mix things up

No, we certainly don't f*cking need UKIP AMs!

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Just because the Labour Welsh government is incompetent doesn't mean the rest of the AMs are!

Big difference between Wales and Germany. They are a country of 80 million, we are a country of three million. We would neither propose nor be able to take as many immigrants as they're currently taking.

It's obvious that you're a UKIP voter, and have been duped by right-wing British media propaganda.

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Agree ,we need a few ukip ams just to mix things up

No, we certainly don't f*cking need UKIP AMs!

Why not ?

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Just because the Labour Welsh government is incompetent doesn't mean the rest of the AMs are!

Big difference between Wales and Germany. They are a country of 80 million, we are a country of three million. We would neither propose nor be able to take as many immigrants as they're currently taking.

It's obvious that you're a UKIP voter, and have been duped by right-wing British media propaganda.

Right wing ukip I wouldn't say they were that more like center common sense policy s

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Just because the Labour Welsh government is incompetent doesn't mean the rest of the AMs are!

Big difference between Wales and Germany. They are a country of 80 million, we are a country of three million. We would neither propose nor be able to take as many immigrants as they're currently taking.

It's obvious that you're a UKIP voter, and have been duped by right-wing British media propaganda.

Why do the left always say you are duped by the right wing Media or lack of intelegence if we do not agree with your political beliefs ? I have my own mind thank you very much.

Wouldn't trust Any at the Welsh assembly to run a bath never mind a country. To far left wing, Wales would be left in ruins. And immigration would end up like Germany's if these loons took Charge. Recently Farage wiped the floor with Carwyn.

Just because the Labour Welsh government is incompetent doesn't mean the rest of the AMs are!

Big difference between Wales and Germany. They are a country of 80 million, we are a country of three million. We would neither propose nor be able to take as many immigrants as they're currently taking.

It's obvious that you're a UKIP voter, and have been duped by right-wing British media propaganda.

Why do the left always say you are duped by the right wing Media or lack of intelegence if we do not agree with your political beliefs ? I have my own mind thank you very much.

Totally agree they seem to think that they have more brain's then everyone else ,looneys the lot of them

Nothing more to say.

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Nothing more to say.

Good on them but that is not a reason for Welsh people to vote for independence.

Listed building, can't just knock it down lets be realistic for a second.

Spending £7,000,000,000 to mend a crumbling building....let's be realistic for a second.

Spending 7bn to mend a crumbling building, a building known across the world with centuries of history and arguably the most important building in the country. Yeah lets knock it down.

Could build a fantastic parliament for £500m and save £6.5 BILLION to spend on building new schools and hospitals and employing more doctors and nurses as well as investing in medical research plus much, much more. All buildings have a use by date. For the palace of Westminster it's about now.

Nothing more to say.

Good on them but that is not a reason for Welsh people to vote for independence.

No but neither is Irelands rags to riches to rags story a reason not to.
It shows the art of the possible.

Nothing more to say.

Good on them but that is not a reason for Welsh people to vote for independence.

No but neither is Irelands rags to riches to rags story a reason not to.
It shows the art of the possible.

.. And back to rags again, the UK government had to bail them out not long ago. The economy went tits up as did the construction industry. There are still ghost estates there today. I am all for Welsh independence if it can be proved we will be better off, I am just yet to be convinced.

Nothing more to say.

Good on them but that is not a reason for Welsh people to vote for independence.

No but neither is Irelands rags to riches to rags story a reason not to.
It shows the art of the possible.

.. And back to rags again, the UK government had to bail them out not long ago. The economy went tits up as did the construction industry. There are still ghost estates there today. I am all for Welsh independence if it can be proved we will be better off, I am just yet to be convinced.

I said rags to riches and to rags.

My point is we shouldnt be afraid to consider the option though we are miles away from full indepence. We can build towards it because things sure arent getting better in the UK.