" Trust making us look berks again. "

Jon, I'm not for the change, but we are in the English League under their Rules and their banner etc
We are virtually their guests

Can you explain how it is an insult to Welsh Clubs?
That's what Tim Hartley/trust are saying

As far as I am concerned, I'm grateful that we are allowed in their and never want to see us in the Welsh League

Sent this email

Hi,

I would just like to say how embarrassed I am by your chairman's comments regarding the English Football League. It in no way represents the thoughts of sane Cardiff fans and you have brought negative publicity on us at a time when it is not needed or desired.

I hope that you make a statement as an organisation disavowing yourselves from his comments.

Regards

Neil McDonald

Sent from my iPhone

Spot on Neil

Cheers. Didn't want to be abusive or ambiguous. Just wanted them to take it back.

Jon, I'm not for the change, but we are in the English League under their Rules and their banner etc
We are virtually their guests

Can you explain how it is an insult to Welsh Clubs?
That's what Tim Hartley/trust are saying

As far as I am concerned, I'm grateful that we are allowed in their and never want to see us in the Welsh League

This.

Plus it's not our right or any supporter's rights to question what the league do or call themselves or how they spend their money. It's their train set.

So is everyone a massive supporter of the Football League re-brand, then? I haven't seen much objection to it amongst all the 'embarrassment' and the outrage directed at Tim Hartley and the Trust.

It seems to me it is an expensive and pointless waste of time and money and does nothing to tackle the real problems facing 72 clubs and their supporters. Whether or not the changes are 'insulting' to Cardiff and Newport (Tim Hartley denies using that word to the journalists) I can't see anything in it to get excited about unless I work for the marketing company paid to re-do the logo and the IT and print companies who will be paid to introduce the changes.

I'm a member of the Trust but I don't know Tim Hartley and I don't think any members were consulted before he made his comments (as I doubt many were consulted on the FL re-brand despite the claims), but I'm not embarrassed at all by what he said. Embarrassed a bit by the reaction though. Maybe in hindsight he would have worded it a differently, but his comments were a response to the tripe spouted by the Football League chief executive at the re-brand launch. The media wouldn't have asked any serious questions without the hook of the English/Cardiff/Newport issue.

It seems to me that most of it was dead right. It is worth a bit of controversy to get a discussion going about the real priorities for the Football League. Most of the comments from other clubs' fan sites and blogs that I have read agreed with Tim Hartley that the re-brand was unnecessary and a distraction. No doubt the anti-Welsh comments will follow but that is nothing new and we all know our history and are happy to explain again why Cardiff and other Welsh clubs are established members of the Football League (or sometimes the Barclays Premier League - not English Premier League).

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/champion ... brand.html?

[Sits back and waits for the abuse.]

Oh do shut up. It's not a big change. Why did Hartley feel the need to make a statement about it? Unnecessary perhaps but you won't notice anything different after it's been implemented. Such a non issue so I don't know why Hartley and the trust have stuck their beaks in.

Jon, I'm not for the change, but we are in the English League under their Rules and their banner etc
We are virtually their guests

Can you explain how it is an insult to Welsh Clubs?
That's what Tim Hartley/trust are saying

I understand that Annis. Five Welsh clubs invited to join the Football league in 1920/21 including Cardiff City. So yes, in a way we are guests - like many clubs around the world that play in neighbouring countries leagues.

Obviously the Football League is English. I don't think the re-brand is insulting to Cardiff and Newport (or 'a little bit insulting' as Tim Hartley is reported to have said - although he says he doesn't recall using those words). However I'm not upset by the comments either.

My main issue is that the FL to EFL re-brand is lazy, expensive and an irrelevance. There are so many big issues facing football and football fans that this does nothing to improve. Shaun Harvey, the Football league Chief Executive launched the re-brand with loads of marketing waffle - and that annoyed me. Then I got an email from the Football League to say that a survey I filled in some time in August had contributed to the re-brand (that must be where the consultation with 18,000 fabs came from), but that had nothing to do with logos and name changes! That seemed to be really dishonest and annoyed me even more. So when Tim Hartley had a pop at the FL I was pleased that at least someone (I assume in a personal capacity) was rattling their cage.

We have Welsh, English, Scottish & Irish leagues. If any team in Wales objects to playing in the English system, they can always withdraw and apply to play in their own country's league. Be great for Cardiff playing against some of top village sides in Wales I'm sure.

Jon, I'm not for the change, but we are in the English League under their Rules and their banner etc
We are virtually their guests

Can you explain how it is an insult to Welsh Clubs?
That's what Tim Hartley/trust are saying

I understand that Annis. Five Welsh clubs invited to join the Football league in 1920/21 including Cardiff City. So yes, in a way we are guests - like many clubs around the world that play in neighbouring countries leagues.

Obviously the Football League is English. I don't think the re-brand is insulting to Cardiff and Newport (or 'a little bit insulting' as Tim Hartley is reported to have said - although he says he doesn't recall using those words). However I'm not upset by the comments either.

My main issue is that the FL to EFL re-brand is lazy, expensive and an irrelevance. There are so many big issues facing football and football fans that this does nothing to improve. Shaun Harvey, the Football league Chief Executive launched the re-brand with loads of marketing waffle - and that annoyed me. Then I got an email from the Football League to say that a survey I filled in some time in August had contributed to the re-brand (that must be where the consultation with 18,000 fabs came from), but that had nothing to do with logos and name changes! That seemed to be really dishonest and annoyed me even more. So when Tim Hartley had a pop at the FL I was pleased that at least someone (I assume in a personal capacity) was rattling their cage.

It's not up to fans to decide that.

I don't understand why the Trust made a fuss sbout this. Its a non issue. It always has been the English Football League though not specifically by name. If it were the British Football League then it would have been a nationwide entity with clubs from all the regions tsking part equally so we would have expected to have seen Scottish and Ulster clubs participating.

I don't understand why the Trust made a fuss sbout this. Its a non issue. It always has been the English Football League though not specifically by name. If it were the British Football League then it would have been a nationwide entity with clubs from all the regions tsking part equally so we would have expected to have seen Scottish and Ulster clubs participating.

Tim Hartley and his Trust don't represent me, and in all honesty I am not interested in them or anything they say. I am capable of making my own mind up and having my own views. Be good if he said that many Cardiff supporters are not interested in what he thinks about this name change.

Why is the Champions League called the Champions League if 75% of the teams haven't won their respective league the previous year?

I'm a member of the Trust and as soon as I saw Hartleys statement I cringed with embarrassment. His statement definitely doesn't speak for me.
The good thing about the Trust, is that they have elections every year and board members can be voted off if enough people stand. This statement from Hartley does himself no favours at all. It's a shame the likes of Corky and Dave Sugarman are no longer involved in the organisation anymore.

I've seen those elections before Tony Williams of this forum shall I say was not made welcome at all and had no chance, for me it's a closed shop and that's how I feel about them and see it.

I disagree with entirely on this Annis. I have specific direct knowledge of what happened when Tony stood for election and with respect,despite what you claim on here, you don't.

Tony had exactly the same opportunity to be elected as any other candidate. He produced a candidate statement setting out the policies he stood for and this was sent out to all members to vote on who they wanted to be on the Trust board. Each member has one vote (whether a board member or not) and the simple fact was that not enough members at the time voted for Tony.

Why do you think that he " was not made welcome at all"? That is simply not true as new candidates were encouraged at the time as they have been at every election. Indeed, from memory, other candidates who had not been board members before WERE elected by popular vote that year.
It is as far removed from a "closed shop" as you describe it as you can possibly get.Every candidate has the same chance of election to the board and all votes are subject to an independently supervised count.

Were you aware of the above facts?

Keith

I'm a member of the Trust and as soon as I saw Hartleys statement I cringed with embarrassment. His statement definitely doesn't speak for me.
The good thing about the Trust, is that they have elections every year and board members can be voted off if enough people stand. This statement from Hartley does himself no favours at all. It's a shame the likes of Corky and Dave Sugarman are no longer involved in the organisation anymore.

I've seen those elections before Tony Williams of this forum shall I say was not made welcome at all and had no chance, for me it's a closed shop and that's how I feel about them and see it.

I disagree with entirely on this Annis. I have specific direct knowledge of what happened when Tony stood for election and with respect,despite what you claim on here, you don't.

Tony had exactly the same opportunity to be elected as any other candidate. He produced a candidate statement setting out the policies he stood for and this was sent out to all members to vote on who they wanted to be on the Trust board. Each member has one vote (whether a board member or not) and the simple fact was that not enough members at the time voted for Tony.

Why do you think that he " was not made welcome at all"? That is simply not true as new candidates were encouraged at the time as they have been at every election. Indeed, from memory, other candidates who had not been board members before WERE elected by popular vote that year.
It is as far removed from a "closed shop" as you describe it as you can possibly get.Every candidate has the same chance of election to the board and all votes are subject to an independently supervised count.

Were you aware of the above facts?

Keith

Keith,

Tony came back from the voting etc despondant,fed up and felt totally ignored, a bit like as some say closed shop or inner circle and to the fans like us on the outside thats how it really does feel,regarding the trust.

I'm a member of the Trust and as soon as I saw Hartleys statement I cringed with embarrassment. His statement definitely doesn't speak for me.
The good thing about the Trust, is that they have elections every year and board members can be voted off if enough people stand. This statement from Hartley does himself no favours at all. It's a shame the likes of Corky and Dave Sugarman are no longer involved in the organisation anymore.

I've seen those elections before Tony Williams of this forum shall I say was not made welcome at all and had no chance, for me it's a closed shop and that's how I feel about them and see it.

I disagree with entirely on this Annis. I have specific direct knowledge of what happened when Tony stood for election and with respect,despite what you claim on here, you don't.

Tony had exactly the same opportunity to be elected as any other candidate. He produced a candidate statement setting out the policies he stood for and this was sent out to all members to vote on who they wanted to be on the Trust board. Each member has one vote (whether a board member or not) and the simple fact was that not enough members at the time voted for Tony.

Why do you think that he " was not made welcome at all"? That is simply not true as new candidates were encouraged at the time as they have been at every election. Indeed, from memory, other candidates who had not been board members before WERE elected by popular vote that year.
It is as far removed from a "closed shop" as you describe it as you can possibly get.Every candidate has the same chance of election to the board and all votes are subject to an independently supervised count.

Were you aware of the above facts?

Keith

Keith,

Tony came back from the voting etc despondant,fed up and felt totally ignored, a bit like as some say closed shop or inner circle and to the fans like us on the outside thats how it really does feel,regarding the trust.

Then that is wrong if that happened at the count. I wasn't there because, as I say, the count is done and overseen independently.

My personal view is that the Trust board always needs new people with new views and new ideas so I have been pleased every time (and there have been several times) when new people are appointed. However , I have no control over who gets appointed as I have one vote the same as any other member - it is individual members who decide democratically and that is how it should be. Having different views and approaches on the board to represent the expressed views of members is healthy and is encouraged.

As many people know I have strong views on a number of issues and they are sometimes outvoted by other board members and it is only right that I accept and go along with the majority view when this happens. Like everyone else on the board, I stand to be voted out by members every two years ( half the board stand down for reelection every year) if either I don't do what I said I would do if reelected or members don't like what I stand for.

Keith

Tim Hartley and his Trust don't represent me, and in all honesty I am not interested in them or anything they say. I am capable of making my own mind up and having my own views. Be good if he said that many Cardiff supporters are not interested in what he thinks about this name change.

The Wally got his picture in the Sunday Mirror, achieved his goal

Funny no replies on here from Trust Members?

They won't win this argument annis

Martin, this is why I would not have anything to do with the Trust,they never achieve anything and to think they wanted to be on the Cardiff City board.

Tim Hartley or Keith Morgan, maybe could answer this pathetic statement ?

Annis

I am more than happy to answer this and would have done so earlier but have only just got in and read this.

The first time I saw Tim's reported comments was when I read them in the press. It is certainly nothing that had been discussed by the Trust board so I can only assume that they are Tim's personal views that the media have attributed to the Trust as a whole.

Keith

Bumped in case my response gets lost in a long thread

Received a reply which makes it seem it was a trust statement. Also asking if I am a member and if not do do I want to join?

Hi Neil



As I am sure you can appreciate, we represent a number of members and there will be times when not everyone will agree with statements that are made.



If you’re not already a member, you can join the Trust by following the link http://www.ccfctrust.org/?page_id=223.