Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:49 pm
Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:25 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:48 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.
Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:52 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.
So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you
Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:13 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.
So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you
I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.
Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?
Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:20 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.
So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you
I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.
Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?
Don't tell me... The west's fault, Obama, Britain... China and Russia are as bad as any country in the West ask Taiwan Ukraine
Who says they want to nuke us stupid f**k
Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want
Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:43 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.
So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you
I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.
Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?
Don't tell me... The west's fault, Obama, Britain... China and Russia are as bad as any country in the West ask Taiwan Ukraine
Who says they want to nuke us stupid f**k
Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want
"If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to"
"Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want"
Is what you said, you have constantly been implying that if we didn't have nukes then these countries would be attacking Australia etc and the only reason they haven't is because of us having nukes. I agree with you that Russia are just as bad as us in terms of their foreign policy which is why I don't want them to have nukes just as much as I don't want us to have nukes.
None of you have answered my real question though apart from talking crap about imaginary threats from evil countries like China. Why do we need nukes in Britain when most of the modern world including the majority of western countries go without?
Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:53 pm
Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:25 pm
Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:38 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then
Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly
When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button
Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:59 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then
Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly
When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button
Answer the question.
Only nine countries in the world have nuclear weapons including the majority of the Western world. How do these countries cope and why can't we join them?
Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:02 pm
Fusilier23 wrote:You cannot deter if you do not have a deterrent - a necessary evil i'm afraid
Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:09 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then
Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly
When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button
Answer the question.
Only nine countries in the world have nuclear weapons including the majority of the Western world. How do these countries cope and why can't we join them?
I already have
Because say China was to attack Japan, then that would start WW3 and China knows that the West has a more advanced military and many more nuclear weapons
Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:18 pm
Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:24 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Of course it would start WW3.. Japan has a much bigger military than Ukraine and would fight back brining other countries into the conflict.
Russia has invaded Afghanistan themselves and we are not going to start WW3 because Russia has a few militarily men in eastern Ukraine, but if Ukraine fought back and Russia took over Kiev, then this would draw us into the conflict. But russia is not that daft because they know that we would have to join in sooner or later at that stage. But it won't happen... because we have a deterrence
Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:14 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:shinyBlueGlue wrote:Of course it would start WW3.. Japan has a much bigger military than Ukraine and would fight back brining other countries into the conflict.
Russia has invaded Afghanistan themselves and we are not going to start WW3 because Russia has a few militarily men in eastern Ukraine, but if Ukraine fought back and Russia took over Kiev, then this would draw us into the conflict. But russia is not that daft because they know that we would have to join in sooner or later at that stage. But it won't happen... because we have a deterrence
You are running round in circles now and telling porkies.
Ukraine have fought back hence why there's a war. Basically your argument boils down to us needing nukes just in case China and Russia decide to bomb over countries but not the countries they are currently attacking.
Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:08 pm
Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:33 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Nuclear power would be an alternative energy source. Tidal power, the severn barrage is a good idea. Solar panels etc.
Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:33 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:I'm done with this. Russia have pushed our buttons already in Ukraine and in Syria and no nuclear weaponry of ours deterred them.
We are not the worlds policemen. Countries like Sweden, Australia and closer to Ireland cope fine without nukes. Why can't we?
Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:59 pm
Nuclearblue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Nuclear power would be an alternative energy source. Tidal power, the severn barrage is a good idea. Solar panels etc.
I know I'm gonna be biased but Nuclear power is a must. I just can't see for the life of me why can't we Brits build them instead of China and then paying through the teeth for it. I wonder when they de commission them then it will be solely down to us.
Tidal not so sure on the Canadians say it all what it cracks up to be and they are the masters of it. The Severn Barrage is untested so would be a gamble but I can't really comment as it isn't my bag, and a lot of history will be destroyed in the mud flaps. Solar Hmmmm a massive area is needed for not much electricity produced but on houses it does make enough to sort your heating, the down side is the cost.
Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:46 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is
Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.
The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.
If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.
People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.
Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:00 pm
Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:42 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Individual terrorists are the threat of the day. Nuclear weapons will not save us from that.
Nuclearblue wrote:No Sweden would be protected by NATO. Now you are the ones that you would want someone else to protect you but not protect yourself. Just leave it to someone else. Sorry but that is so very wrong
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:100bn will be spent on trident renewal. 100bn that can be better spent elsewhere.
Nuclearblue wrote:For a start Cameron's a tw*t but we do live in a democracy and our armed services serve the monarchy.
angelis1949 wrote:My last response to this debate, is that as long as potential enemies and rogue states possesses nuclear weapons, it is absolutely essential we maintain our nuclear capability, a necessary evil if you will, I respect people who take the opposite view from my own, but I suspect the vast majority of British people agrees with my point of view
Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:12 am
Bakedalasker wrote:This issue was dominant in the 80s and we needed it against the communist block because without it they would have rolled us over.
Communism is dead so where is the threat today? Only danger I see is ISIL which is not a force that's going to roll us over like the threat from communism. So my answer is no.
Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:43 pm
Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:29 pm
AfanBluebird wrote:If Russia or any other countries try wanted to attack us, they would have already. It takes an idiotic human to actually be able to press that red button knowing that it could wipe a country or civilisation clean off the map. Our nuclear weapons will NEVER be used, so there is no point in actually having them in my opinion.
Sad reality of things is that people are worried about Russia and China because the newspapers tell them to be. If Russia wanted to attack us, they would have done so already.
Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:48 pm
Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:18 pm
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Why haven't Russia attacked all the countries without nuclear deterrents IE most countries in the world.
Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:43 pm
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Why haven't Russia attacked all the countries without nuclear deterrents IE most countries in the world.
I don't know if you are serious but why would they ? It would start WW3 .. However, if we never had nuclear weapons then maybe they would.
Have a look at the world news today, Russia have developed a nuclear torpedo that can devastate the coast of the US