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Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:49 pm

My last response to this debate, is that as long as potential enemies and rogue states possesses nuclear weapons, it is absolutely essential we maintain our nuclear capability, a necessary evil if you will, I respect people who take the opposite view from my own, but I suspect the vast majority of British people agrees with my point of view

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:25 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:48 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.


So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:52 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.


So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you


I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:13 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.


So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you


I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?


Don't tell me... The west's fault, Obama, Britain... China and Russia are as bad as any country in the West ask Taiwan Ukraine
Who says they want to nuke us stupid f**k

Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:20 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.


So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you


I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?


Don't tell me... The west's fault, Obama, Britain... China and Russia are as bad as any country in the West ask Taiwan Ukraine
Who says they want to nuke us stupid f**k

Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want


"If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to"

"Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want"

Is what you said, you have constantly been implying that if we didn't have nukes then these countries would be attacking Australia etc and the only reason they haven't is because of us having nukes. I agree with you that Russia are just as bad as us in terms of their foreign policy which is why I don't want them to have nukes just as much as I don't want us to have nukes.

None of you have answered my real question though apart from talking crap about imaginary threats from evil countries like China. Why do we need nukes in Britain when most of the modern world including the majority of western countries go without?

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:43 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.


Stop reading the daily mail and other bullshit media outlets, China are not our enemies and are no more the bad guys as the western world. Are you really saying that the fact that little old UK has nukes might be the only thing stopping those countries invading others? Listen to yourself. If we got rid of our nuclear weapons America would still have theirs, nothing would change in your fantasy world of China itching to blow up Australia.


So China and Ukraine are not happening ? Get out of Jeremy Corbyn arse and look at the world around you


I am a UKIP voter you thick f**k and I detest lefties like Corbyn. I just want my tax money to be spend on things worthwhile and not renewing something that deters imaginary threats.

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine and why so many Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side? Why on earth would China and Russia want to nuke us for?


Don't tell me... The west's fault, Obama, Britain... China and Russia are as bad as any country in the West ask Taiwan Ukraine
Who says they want to nuke us stupid f**k

Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want


"If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to"

"Saying that if we have no deterrence then they have no fear of us and can and may do what they want"

Is what you said, you have constantly been implying that if we didn't have nukes then these countries would be attacking Australia etc and the only reason they haven't is because of us having nukes. I agree with you that Russia are just as bad as us in terms of their foreign policy which is why I don't want them to have nukes just as much as I don't want us to have nukes.

None of you have answered my real question though apart from talking crap about imaginary threats from evil countries like China. Why do we need nukes in Britain when most of the modern world including the majority of western countries go without?


No I haven't.. I said we should keep our deterrence while other countries have theirs.. you brought up attacking Australia and I said they would not because of our deterrence.

No one is saying China Russia would blow us up if we had no deterrence, but they may take over Ukraine, they may not.. but if they did we have no muscle

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:53 pm

Well why do we have to pay for Australia and the rest of the world nuclear deterrence? You said America shouldn't pay for ours so why should we pay for everyone else.

You and others have constantly implied that China and Russia would invade everyone if we didn't have any "muscle". We are not the worlds muscle as you put it. Most of the western world do without nuclear weapons, why can't we join them.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:25 pm

I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then

Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly

When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:38 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then

Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly

When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button


Answer the question.

Only nine countries in the world have nuclear weapons including the majority of the Western world. How do these countries cope and why can't we join them?

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:59 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then

Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly

When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button


Answer the question.

Only nine countries in the world have nuclear weapons including the majority of the Western world. How do these countries cope and why can't we join them?


I already have

Because say China was to attack Japan, then that would start WW3 and China knows that the West has a more advanced military and many more nuclear weapons

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:02 pm

Fusilier23 wrote:You cannot deter if you do not have a deterrent - a necessary evil i'm afraid :old:


We wouldn't need to if we wernt poking our noses into other people's business all the time

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:09 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:I am not saying we should be their muscle, I am saying that a scenario could be that Russia flexes it's muscles as it has done in the past and is doing now... It may do something that conflicts with out intrest, so what then

Do we have a meeting with Cobra and suggest we advise them to refrain from attacking, taking over (you chose) any country or will shout at you very loudly

When we all give up nuclear weapons together will be a great and dangerous day, one because they have prevented wars and 2 because at least the world cannot be blown up with a few presses of a button


Answer the question.

Only nine countries in the world have nuclear weapons including the majority of the Western world. How do these countries cope and why can't we join them?


I already have

Because say China was to attack Japan, then that would start WW3 and China knows that the West has a more advanced military and many more nuclear weapons


So you are justifying us spending £100bn of tax payers money to protect Japan? Russia was against us invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Russia having nukes did not make us think twice about invading those particular countries. Russia invaded Ukraine earlier this year against our and Americas wishes, the threat of nuclear warfare with the west did not put them off on that occasion.

If China was to invade Japan it would not trigger WW3 no more than us invading numerous countries in the middle east has an Russia invading Ukraine has. We would puff our chests out and ask them to stop but they would just ignore us and carry on, nuclear weapons or not.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:18 pm

Of course it would start WW3.. Japan has a much bigger military than Ukraine and would fight back brining other countries into the conflict.

Russia has invaded Afghanistan themselves and we are not going to start WW3 because Russia has a few militarily men in eastern Ukraine, but if Ukraine fought back and Russia took over Kiev, then this would draw us into the conflict. But russia is not that daft because they know that we would have to join in sooner or later at that stage. But it won't happen... because we have a deterrence

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:24 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:Of course it would start WW3.. Japan has a much bigger military than Ukraine and would fight back brining other countries into the conflict.

Russia has invaded Afghanistan themselves and we are not going to start WW3 because Russia has a few militarily men in eastern Ukraine, but if Ukraine fought back and Russia took over Kiev, then this would draw us into the conflict. But russia is not that daft because they know that we would have to join in sooner or later at that stage. But it won't happen... because we have a deterrence


You are running round in circles now and telling porkies.

Ukraine have fought back hence why there's a war. Basically your argument boils down to us needing nukes just in case China and Russia decide to bomb over countries but not the countries they are currently attacking :lol: .

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:14 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
shinyBlueGlue wrote:Of course it would start WW3.. Japan has a much bigger military than Ukraine and would fight back brining other countries into the conflict.

Russia has invaded Afghanistan themselves and we are not going to start WW3 because Russia has a few militarily men in eastern Ukraine, but if Ukraine fought back and Russia took over Kiev, then this would draw us into the conflict. But russia is not that daft because they know that we would have to join in sooner or later at that stage. But it won't happen... because we have a deterrence


You are running round in circles now and telling porkies.

Ukraine have fought back hence why there's a war. Basically your argument boils down to us needing nukes just in case China and Russia decide to bomb over countries but not the countries they are currently attacking :lol: .


Are you serious.. Ukraine have not fought back properly, that is why the east still in command of the Russians
Russia wont mess with eastern block Nato allies because of our deterrence, Russia would like them to be part of Russia again.
How about how Russia threatened Norway with war if they joined NATO or are they not allowed a free voice and join who they want

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:08 pm

I'm done with this. Russia have pushed our buttons already in Ukraine and in Syria and no nuclear weaponry of ours deterred them.

We are not the worlds policemen. Countries like Sweden, Australia and closer to Ireland cope fine without nukes. Why can't we?

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:33 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Nuclear power would be an alternative energy source. Tidal power, the severn barrage is a good idea. Solar panels etc.

I know I'm gonna be biased but Nuclear power is a must. I just can't see for the life of me why can't we Brits build them instead of China and then paying through the teeth for it. I wonder when they de commission them then it will be solely down to us.
Tidal not so sure on the Canadians say it all what it cracks up to be and they are the masters of it. The Severn Barrage is untested so would be a gamble but I can't really comment as it isn't my bag, and a lot of history will be destroyed in the mud flaps. Solar Hmmmm a massive area is needed for not much electricity produced but on houses it does make enough to sort your heating, the down side is the cost.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:33 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:I'm done with this. Russia have pushed our buttons already in Ukraine and in Syria and no nuclear weaponry of ours deterred them.

We are not the worlds policemen. Countries like Sweden, Australia and closer to Ireland cope fine without nukes. Why can't we?

Absolutely :thumbup:

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:59 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Nuclear power would be an alternative energy source. Tidal power, the severn barrage is a good idea. Solar panels etc.

I know I'm gonna be biased but Nuclear power is a must. I just can't see for the life of me why can't we Brits build them instead of China and then paying through the teeth for it. I wonder when they de commission them then it will be solely down to us.
Tidal not so sure on the Canadians say it all what it cracks up to be and they are the masters of it. The Severn Barrage is untested so would be a gamble but I can't really comment as it isn't my bag, and a lot of history will be destroyed in the mud flaps. Solar Hmmmm a massive area is needed for not much electricity produced but on houses it does make enough to sort your heating, the down side is the cost.


I agree nuclear energy is a must and our energy plan should be centred around it with a few supplements. The Severn barrage will be able to power the whole of the South west and South Wales apparently, if done correctly with full and proper research there won't be any risk involved.

I think solar panels on a small scale on roofs is the way to go personally, I don't like these large scale solar farms you see in Spain. Plus we hardly have the weather for it.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:46 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:
wez1927 wrote:You need nuclear weapons coz countries with them would think twice about using them on you ,if you didn't have them ,then a rouge state in the future could wipe us out ,we live in a bubble in Britain the rest of the world isn't the politically correct utopia we all think it is


Ah this old chestnut again. Who are we to call other countries "rogue states". Why haven't all these rogue states you speak of wiped out Australia and the whole of latin america yet? These countries seem to be coping without spending £100bn on nuclear war heads.


The reason North Korea or China have not wiped out Australia or Japan is because that would start WW3, which would involve nuclear weapons.

If we never had nuclear weapons, who know what China or North Korea would get up to.

People seem to love knocking the west, but look at Ukraine, Taiwan, plus China making its territory larger with made up islands.



North Korea don't have the missile technology to launch a nuclear warhead as of yet. China don't want to start a world war because it would only take sanctions to cripple their economy.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:00 pm

It's a very interesting, depressing, and complicated argument.

I love the idea of a nuclear weapon-free world. I also think the evolution of humanity will naturally eradicate the need for nuclear power in favour of less harmful renewable energy sources.

However, the reality is that this is a dangerous world. Do I think nuclear weapons act as a deterrent for us? I'm not so sure. I think that's potentially a notion created by those that benefit from Trident's existence

I would love for every nation to surrender its nuclear arsenal but that won't happen. It says everything about humanity that the trust to do that just isn't there.

The idealistic part of me would love to see the UK take a lead on nuclear disarmament though. I fear for a world where a nuclear bomb goes off and as a country that has a nuclear arsenal we are contributing to that risk by having such weapons.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:42 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Individual terrorists are the threat of the day. Nuclear weapons will not save us from that.


Summed up brilliantly. Nuclear weapons are fighting yesterdays wars and are nothing more than geopolitical posturing. The reality is in todays world we have splinter cell terrorist groups all over the world hiding underground and overground, waiting to receive orders to carry out attacks with bombs, guns or whatever they can get hold of whilst slipping the radar.

The reason the West is struggling in this 'war' is because it doesn't have a strategy or cant align on a strategy. All of our enemies do have strategies whether its becoming an economic powerhouse and lending us money to make us dependent on them or whether its a strategy deep rooted in historical religious texts that people are following in unison collectively working towards the same ideological goals. Whatever that strategy is, they're passionate about it and driven to achieve it.

The West just continues to posture whilst being deeply indecisive and they often make more of a mess of the situation because it won't commit one way or the other.

Nuclearblue wrote:No Sweden would be protected by NATO. Now you are the ones that you would want someone else to protect you but not protect yourself. Just leave it to someone else. Sorry but that is so very wrong


NATO is a farce. You really think other countries are going to risk war in the event that Russia attacks a small Baltic state? Its not going to happen. The NATO nations are not going to poke the bear over such an issue. The worst that will happen is further mass sanctions against Russia but at the same time, Russia will wholesomely highlight what a farce NATO is. NATO nations are not going to risk being provoked into what could end up being WW3 over a smaller Baltic nation. No disrespect to those nations but thats the crux of the matter because every nation is working in its own political interest, especially countries like America.

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:100bn will be spent on trident renewal. 100bn that can be better spent elsewhere.


All of that money should be ploughed into the education system and providing heating for pensioners during the winter months.

Nuclearblue wrote:For a start Cameron's a tw*t but we do live in a democracy and our armed services serve the monarchy.


Contrary to popular belief, the UK isn't a democracy. That's what politicians peddle to get people in the UK to believe that they are living in a true free country. Its nonsense. The UK is an elective dictatorship whereby people vote and then they have placed their new dictators in power for a certain amount of years. If the UK were a true democracy it would have PR/AV as a system at least, instead it uses the very anti-democratic FPTP system and makes MP/MEP accountability almost nonexistent.

This is one of the main reasons the UK has slipped into a decline because politicians live in their own world of a socialist utopia protected by the corporate elite they subsidise and the rest are living the capitalist life in and around the relative poverty line making ends meet, another reason that has led to the almost complete demise of a fairly well off middle class in the UK and has contributed greatly to the breakdown of the traditional household. These 'progressive' parties love to peddle the line of being modern and progressive and forward thinking on social issues (hence why the Tories gave in on gay marriage - they're not truly 'c'onservative in the slightest) whilst they're all the same on economic policy, i.e. corporate welfare supporters, much at the expense of the rest of us. I long for the day the UK is a true free-market capitalist country where it pays to work again and there's a thriving middle class but its not going to happen whilst the people in power are subsidising the elites at the expense of everyone else and they have the system gamed with an anti-democratic voting system.

angelis1949 wrote:My last response to this debate, is that as long as potential enemies and rogue states possesses nuclear weapons, it is absolutely essential we maintain our nuclear capability, a necessary evil if you will, I respect people who take the opposite view from my own, but I suspect the vast majority of British people agrees with my point of view


Thats because the majority of people are actually deluded and will often believe whatever the rags want them to believe. War is a money maker so to keep the threat of war alive and prepare a country for the eventuality of war it makes sense for a country like the UK to spend on a deterrent. Its complete nonsense but its peddled to convince us all that we somehow need it and it keeps us safe. It also helps fuel all the propaganda and hysteria and get people in the mood for war. When the government has the approval of the people, hence the USA with the American public, it will be more than happy to go ahead and carry out its true intentions - whether they're for power or economic gain or both. In most cases its both - i.e. economic gain in terms of resources or installing pipelines or whatever and destabilising a country or removing a leader that is no longer willing to toe the party line. At that point their position becomes untenable and they must be removed which is exactly what happens. Why do you think North Korea has nukes? For exactly the same reason. Its to whip up hysteria in the North Korea people and get a reaction. In North Korea's case its 'everyone wants to hurt us so you must fight for your country and work for your country'. Its all propaganda.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:12 am

Bakedalasker wrote:This issue was dominant in the 80s and we needed it against the communist block because without it they would have rolled us over.

Communism is dead so where is the threat today? Only danger I see is ISIL which is not a force that's going to roll us over like the threat from communism. So my answer is no.


And what if these ISIl scum ever get control in places like Pakistan, who do have nuclear weapons? what then?

Blooobirds Forever !!! :thumbup: :old: :bluescarf: :bluebird:

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:43 pm

If Russia or any other countries try wanted to attack us, they would have already. It takes an idiotic human to actually be able to press that red button knowing that it could wipe a country or civilisation clean off the map. Our nuclear weapons will NEVER be used, so there is no point in actually having them in my opinion.

Sad reality of things is that people are worried about Russia and China because the newspapers tell them to be. If Russia wanted to attack us, they would have done so already.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:29 pm

AfanBluebird wrote:If Russia or any other countries try wanted to attack us, they would have already. It takes an idiotic human to actually be able to press that red button knowing that it could wipe a country or civilisation clean off the map. Our nuclear weapons will NEVER be used, so there is no point in actually having them in my opinion.

Sad reality of things is that people are worried about Russia and China because the newspapers tell them to be. If Russia wanted to attack us, they would have done so already.


Russia would not attack us, we have nuclear weapons.

My last point on all this.... I am not saying that Russia, China or Pakistan are the baddies and we are the goodies

I am saying that you cannot have all those countries with nuclear weapons and leave us open for a possible attack for any reason.

People said Germany would never start another war..

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:48 pm

Why haven't Russia attacked all the countries without nuclear deterrents IE most countries in the world.

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:18 pm

Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Why haven't Russia attacked all the countries without nuclear deterrents IE most countries in the world.


I don't know if you are serious but why would they ? It would start WW3 .. However, if we never had nuclear weapons then maybe they would.

Have a look at the world news today, Russia have developed a nuclear torpedo that can devastate the coast of the US

Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:43 pm

shinyBlueGlue wrote:
Bluebird since 1948 wrote:Why haven't Russia attacked all the countries without nuclear deterrents IE most countries in the world.


I don't know if you are serious but why would they ? It would start WW3 .. However, if we never had nuclear weapons then maybe they would.

Have a look at the world news today, Russia have developed a nuclear torpedo that can devastate the coast of the US


:shock:

That's what I have been trying to tell you in this thread. "WHY WOULD THEY?" attack us, exactly my point. You are saying we must keep our nukes to protect the world, I don't think we should be worlds policeman. Russia have developed a nuclear torpedo that can ruin the coast of America, doesn't mean they are going to use it.