" Can anyone answer this please? "

We have a football club to support.

We also have a £160m and rising bill

That's owed to the person who owns our club an is going nowhere.
What would you rather 160m of debt or Newport County being your closest league side?

Doesn't matter who the money is owed to the club is still in massive debt

Jesus christ, its like f*cking groundhog day!

It's fecking boring now

We have a football club to support.

We also have a £160m and rising bill

That's owed to the person who owns our club an is going nowhere.
What would you rather 160m of debt or Newport County being your closest league side?

Doesn't matter who the money is owed to the club is still in massive debt

Debt he hasnt called in, unless some people get their way and force him out.

& then we could be truly fecked !!

I suppose the biggest question is if the rebrand was for nothing then why did it take near on two years for any kind of real protest.

This must be one of the best posts ever put on here. If all people who crave the blue shirt adopted a similarly measured approach they would command a great deal more respect. But, instead, they tend to damage their cause by their negative, intolerant, unpleasant and insulting behaviour.

The only benefit plain and simple was that we didn't go under.

However we will NEVER know if that was possible and the benefit will not totally come to fruition until the debt is written off.

We would have gone under by now without Vincent Tan's money.

Yes.We could have gone into admin and be in the shit'like Swansea.Southampton.Crystal palace.And guess what.They kept their identity.Disaster.Where are they now.

As stevedavies said, it would have been a miracle for us to come out of it like those teams did. Some of you protesting fans have no idea.

Honest question how many of you would be willing to take the hit of tan going to get your identity back , it's appears to be the only way this will happen . We were in the sh€t at a time when football was realistic in money terms so in some ways easier to get out of . With all the potential ie catchment area wag investment etc you go on about is it better he goes . What options do you have . I doubt you would of gone under without tans money as someone would of intervened as they always do . Could he just walk away ? , could he recall all his loans ?. The blue brigade are at least showing passion and good on them

We have a football club to support.

We also have a £160m and rising bill

That's owed to the person who owns our club an is going nowhere.
What would you rather 160m of debt or Newport County being your closest league side?

Doesn't matter who the money is owed to the club is still in massive debt

Debt he hasnt called in, unless some people get their way and force him out.

& then we could be truly fecked !!

We were before he came.

" Can anyone answer this please? "

What were the benefits of the Rebrand for Cardiff City ?

All opinions welcome

Nothing, other than to indulge a man who preaches about respecting traditions and culture, completely oblivious to the fact that he just waltzed in and took a giant turd ours.

The only benefit plain and simple was that we didn't go under.

However we will NEVER know if that was possible and the benefit will not totally come to fruition until the debt is written off.

We would have gone under by now without Vincent Tan's money.

Yes.We could have gone into admin and be in the shit'like Swansea.Southampton.Crystal palace.And guess what.They kept their identity.Disaster.Where are they now.

As stevedavies said, it would have been a miracle for us to come out of it like those teams did. Some of you protesting fans have no idea.

Honest question how many of you would be willing to take the hit of tan going to get your identity back , it's appears to be the only way this will happen . We were in the sh€t at a time when football was realistic in money terms so in some ways easier to get out of . With all the potential ie catchment area wag investment etc you go on about is it better he goes . What options do you have . I doubt you would of gone under without tans money as someone would of intervened as they always do . Could he just walk away ? , could he recall all his loans ?. The blue brigade are at least showing passion and good on them

what part of being in court facing a winding up order from the revenue do people not understand. there was no other party tan either put his 6 million in and we survived or he dident put the 6 million in and cardiff city as we knew it would have disappeared off the face of the earth.
even with the bankers draft for 6 million the revenue barrister was still trying to wind us up saying we were trading insolvent.
tan saved cardiff city there is no question of that its the price he has made people pay for it afterwards is sticking in peoples craw

smilies over substance as usual baz.

do you honestly think the protests are working?

as someone who has taken part in most of them i can honestly say they do squat. the biggest one wasn't even a quater of the match day attendence (not even close). and Tan so far has done nothing about it.

you all keep saying "Tan hasn't done xxx and he's not going to do it soon" (debt to eq, r2b etc) so why do you think his reactions to protests will be any different??

2 options and 2 options only: fan ownership, or find another sugar daddy (one who doesnt mind us playing in blue)

sad state of affairs but there you go

No, not enough protests are being done, but are they working? Well he certainly knows it now, doesn't he? How else do you suggest forcing this man to leave?

For someone who is called always be blue, I'm amazed at your negativity towards any sort of protest.

i told you the twop options in the post that you replied to.

and this isnt the first time you've had a pop because of my username...i wan't our club to be blue, i think its hugley important, but not at the expense of our security as a club. i went to most of the protests and still will do the scarf thing. i just don't think it'll work, tan doesnt care what the fans in the stadium think, he never has and he's proved it again and again

The only benefit plain and simple was that we didn't go under.

However we will NEVER know if that was possible and the benefit will not totally come to fruition until the debt is written off.

We would have gone under by now without Vincent Tan's money.

Yes.We could have gone into admin and be in the shit'like Swansea.Southampton.Crystal palace.And guess what.They kept their identity.Disaster.Where are they now.

As stevedavies said, it would have been a miracle for us to come out of it like those teams did. Some of you protesting fans have no idea.

Honest question how many of you would be willing to take the hit of tan going to get your identity back , it's appears to be the only way this will happen . We were in the sh€t at a time when football was realistic in money terms so in some ways easier to get out of . With all the potential ie catchment area wag investment etc you go on about is it better he goes . What options do you have . I doubt you would of gone under without tans money as someone would of intervened as they always do . Could he just walk away ? , could he recall all his loans ?. The blue brigade are at least showing passion and good on them

what part of being in court facing a winding up order from the revenue do people not understand. there was no other party tan either put his 6 million in and we survived or he dident put the 6 million in and cardiff city as we knew it would have disappeared off the face of the earth.
even with the bankers draft for 6 million the revenue barrister was still trying to wind us up saying we were trading insolvent.
tan saved cardiff city there is no question of that its the price he has made people pay for it afterwards is sticking in peoples craw

People understand it but they don't have an answer for it so the choose to ignore it an say but we've got 160 million or another random made up number.
Id rather be 160 million in debt to a person who owns the football club then to not have a football club to watch.

Tan Ghee saved us from going under not vincent tan.
as far as benefits we would have had if we had not rebranded............the answer is nothing.
He put money in yes.............but we owe him that..........so whats new.........loads on here slate Sam Hamman for doing the very same thing..............we just owe him more

Tan Ghee saved us from going under not vincent tan.
as far as benefits we would have had if we had not rebranded............the answer is nothing.
He put money in yes.............but we owe him that..........so whats new.........loads on here slate Sam Hamman for doing the very same thing..............we just owe him more

Denzil, TG, I have total Respect for, pity Tan never.

Tan Ghee saved us from going under not vincent tan.
as far as benefits we would have had if we had not rebranded............the answer is nothing.
He put money in yes.............but we owe him that..........so whats new.........loads on here slate Sam Hamman for doing the very same thing..............we just owe him more

It was tans 6 million not TG. Sam borrowed money on our behalf only ever putting in 3 million of his own money. Tg never had the money unfortunately as he was an absolute gentleman and the rebrand did not sit well with him.

For once I can agree with you Annis TG was a true gent I met him and his wife on a couple of occasions when they befriended my granddaughter.Having said that he didn't have the financial clout to save us which is why he brought tan onboard TG left after falling out with tan over colour change because TG said the rebrand would not happen because of fans feelings and tan went against him.

Tan Ghee saved us from going under not vincent tan.
as far as benefits we would have had if we had not rebranded............the answer is nothing.
He put money in yes.............but we owe him that..........so whats new.........loads on here slate Sam Hamman for doing the very same thing..............we just owe him more

Denzil, TG, I have total Respect for, pity Tan never.

Correct it's fair to say we all respected TG but unfortunately TG could only help us by getting Tan Involved. Without that involvement we were dead in the water and literally hours from being closed down in short finished. All the respect in the world for TG doesn't alter the fact Tan was the good samara TAN.

So without the rebrand tan wouldn't of kept putting money in and we'd not have any club at all. There was no magic money man coming along to pull us out of the shitter.

we have gained naff all
But we have lost so much our Heritage, our dignity, our togetherness, our direction & our pride
& it's so fookin sad

This thread has been done to death

Listen to Steve Davies

We were dead and buried without tans money end of so those saying red or dead wasn't the truth are also full of shit

No one likes the red but it Is what it is

We would have been liquidated now and Cardiff city wouldn't even exist

We'd no longer be in the English pyramids of football either and that is ALSO a fact as the new club established were not granted permission into the English competitions

So all of you ask yourselves a question

Why are u still watching the matches? Why aren't you watching the new club set up to start in the lower welsh leagues cos that's what would have happened had we been liquidated

The time for this was two years ago when proposed then tan had saved us and we may have got a buyer we won't bet a buyer unless we gain promotion again and whose to say the new buyer will ever change us back to blue?

Knock me down all you want but the truth hurts as a fan base we done f**k all two years ago when it mattered so you have a choice you keep lining tans pocket with ticket money (which no matter how u dress it up is supporting him) or you boycott games and hope that enough others do to make tan think again personally I don't see either working, I personally don't go anymore and have attended only 1 game in three years and didn't attend a single premier league game, I still love the club and am grateful we still have a Cardiff city football club and I don't not go because of the red either I don't go cos I can't stand the bollocks surrounding the club far more important things in life than arguing at match days with good friends over a shirt colour

Good post that

We were dead and buried without tans money end of so those saying red or dead wasn't the truth are also full of shit

we were the time he originally stepped in, but we weren't at the time the rebrand was mooted. Tan himself said the club would just be restructured & the CEO at the time told fans in a meeting that it wasn't red or dead.

No one likes the red but it Is what it is

& the fans are entitled to show their displeasure about it.

We would have been liquidated now and Cardiff city wouldn't even exist

this is incorrect. tan "rescued" the club by paying off a tax bill originally, but the club wasn't on the brink of not existing at the time the rebrand was mooted.

We'd no longer be in the English pyramids of football either and that is ALSO a fact as the new club established were not granted permission into the English competitions

this isn't a fact.

So all of you ask yourselves a question

Why are u still watching the matches? Why aren't you watching the new club set up to start in the lower welsh leagues cos that's what would have happened had we been liquidated

strange question that. Are you suggesting that those against the rebrand/Tan shouldn't attend at all? That's something I disagree wholeheartedly with. You've often posted your dislike of Hammam. Does that mean you didn't go under his ownership?

The time for this was two years ago when proposed then tan had saved us and we may have got a buyer we won't bet a buyer unless we gain promotion again and whose to say the new buyer will ever change us back to blue?

hopefully protests will continue until the club are in it's rightful colour, whoever the owner is.

Knock me down all you want but the truth hurts as a fan base we done f**k all two years ago when it mattered so you have a choice you keep lining tans pocket with ticket money (which no matter how u dress it up is supporting him) or you boycott games and hope that enough others do to make tan think again personally I don't see either working, I personally don't go anymore and have attended only 1 game in three years and didn't attend a single premier league game, I still love the club and am grateful we still have a Cardiff city football club and I don't not go because of the red either I don't go cos I can't stand the bollocks surrounding the club far more important things in life than arguing at match days with good friends over a shirt colour

We were dead and buried without tans money end of so those saying red or dead wasn't the truth are also full of shit

we were the time he originally stepped in, but we weren't at the time the rebrand was mooted. Tan himself said the club would just be restructured & the CEO at the time told fans in a meeting that it wasn't red or dead.

No one likes the red but it Is what it is

& the fans are entitled to show their displeasure about it.

We would have been liquidated now and Cardiff city wouldn't even exist

this is incorrect. tan "rescued" the club by paying off a tax bill originally, but the club wasn't on the brink of not existing at the time the rebrand was mooted.

We'd no longer be in the English pyramids of football either and that is ALSO a fact as the new club established were not granted permission into the English competitions

this isn't a fact.

So all of you ask yourselves a question

Why are u still watching the matches? Why aren't you watching the new club set up to start in the lower welsh leagues cos that's what would have happened had we been liquidated

strange question that. Are you suggesting that those against the rebrand/Tan shouldn't attend at all? That's something I disagree wholeheartedly with. You've often posted your dislike of Hammam. Does that mean you didn't go under his ownership?

The time for this was two years ago when proposed then tan had saved us and we may have got a buyer we won't bet a buyer unless we gain promotion again and whose to say the new buyer will ever change us back to blue?

hopefully protests will continue until the club are in it's rightful colour, whoever the owner is.

Knock me down all you want but the truth hurts as a fan base we done f**k all two years ago when it mattered so you have a choice you keep lining tans pocket with ticket money (which no matter how u dress it up is supporting him) or you boycott games and hope that enough others do to make tan think again personally I don't see either working, I personally don't go anymore and have attended only 1 game in three years and didn't attend a single premier league game, I still love the club and am grateful we still have a Cardiff city football club and I don't not go because of the red either I don't go cos I can't stand the bollocks surrounding the club far more important things in life than arguing at match days with good friends over a shirt colour

Why do you think the club wasn't on the brink of going out of business when the rebrand was mooted.
Because Tan was paying our bills.
If we didn't have the rebrand he wasn't going to keep throwing money in to pay for everything and we'd be back at square one.
An like before nobody else would of saved us. Look at Leeds a huge huge club compared to ours who's come running to help them nobody.

We were dead and buried without tans money end of so those saying red or dead wasn't the truth are also full of shit

we were the time he originally stepped in, but we weren't at the time the rebrand was mooted. Tan himself said the club would just be restructured & the CEO at the time told fans in a meeting that it wasn't red or dead.

No one likes the red but it Is what it is

& the fans are entitled to show their displeasure about it.

We would have been liquidated now and Cardiff city wouldn't even exist

this is incorrect. tan "rescued" the club by paying off a tax bill originally, but the club wasn't on the brink of not existing at the time the rebrand was mooted.

We'd no longer be in the English pyramids of football either and that is ALSO a fact as the new club established were not granted permission into the English competitions

this isn't a fact.

So all of you ask yourselves a question

Why are u still watching the matches? Why aren't you watching the new club set up to start in the lower welsh leagues cos that's what would have happened had we been liquidated

strange question that. Are you suggesting that those against the rebrand/Tan shouldn't attend at all? That's something I disagree wholeheartedly with. You've often posted your dislike of Hammam. Does that mean you didn't go under his ownership?

The time for this was two years ago when proposed then tan had saved us and we may have got a buyer we won't bet a buyer unless we gain promotion again and whose to say the new buyer will ever change us back to blue?

hopefully protests will continue until the club are in it's rightful colour, whoever the owner is.

Knock me down all you want but the truth hurts as a fan base we done f**k all two years ago when it mattered so you have a choice you keep lining tans pocket with ticket money (which no matter how u dress it up is supporting him) or you boycott games and hope that enough others do to make tan think again personally I don't see either working, I personally don't go anymore and have attended only 1 game in three years and didn't attend a single premier league game, I still love the club and am grateful we still have a Cardiff city football club and I don't not go because of the red either I don't go cos I can't stand the bollocks surrounding the club far more important things in life than arguing at match days with good friends over a shirt colour

The point is chuckles without tan there wouldn't actually be a Cardiff city football club anymore nit f*cking pick as much as you like but it's a cold hard fact so although we weren't dead before the rebrand tan could have very well decided to bolt if we'd have argued against it please note that no one agreed against it either

We were dead and buried without tans money end of so those saying red or dead wasn't the truth are also full of shit

we were the time he originally stepped in, but we weren't at the time the rebrand was mooted. Tan himself said the club would just be restructured & the CEO at the time told fans in a meeting that it wasn't red or dead.

No one likes the red but it Is what it is

& the fans are entitled to show their displeasure about it.

We would have been liquidated now and Cardiff city wouldn't even exist

this is incorrect. tan "rescued" the club by paying off a tax bill originally, but the club wasn't on the brink of not existing at the time the rebrand was mooted.

We'd no longer be in the English pyramids of football either and that is ALSO a fact as the new club established were not granted permission into the English competitions

this isn't a fact.

So all of you ask yourselves a question

Why are u still watching the matches? Why aren't you watching the new club set up to start in the lower welsh leagues cos that's what would have happened had we been liquidated

strange question that. Are you suggesting that those against the rebrand/Tan shouldn't attend at all? That's something I disagree wholeheartedly with. You've often posted your dislike of Hammam. Does that mean you didn't go under his ownership?

The time for this was two years ago when proposed then tan had saved us and we may have got a buyer we won't bet a buyer unless we gain promotion again and whose to say the new buyer will ever change us back to blue?

hopefully protests will continue until the club are in it's rightful colour, whoever the owner is.

Knock me down all you want but the truth hurts as a fan base we done f**k all two years ago when it mattered so you have a choice you keep lining tans pocket with ticket money (which no matter how u dress it up is supporting him) or you boycott games and hope that enough others do to make tan think again personally I don't see either working, I personally don't go anymore and have attended only 1 game in three years and didn't attend a single premier league game, I still love the club and am grateful we still have a Cardiff city football club and I don't not go because of the red either I don't go cos I can't stand the bollocks surrounding the club far more important things in life than arguing at match days with good friends over a shirt colour

Why do you think the club wasn't on the brink of going out of business when the rebrand was mooted.
Because Tan was paying our bills.
If we didn't have the rebrand he wasn't going to keep throwing money in to pay for everything and we'd be back at square one.
An like before nobody else would of saved us. Look at Leeds a huge huge club compared to ours who's come running to help them nobody.

Barry keep arguing on here to make yourself feel better if that's what your conscience needs to take the weight off knowing you didn't give two hoots about the rebrand at the time £100m was dangled in front of your hooter

Protesting now will achieve very little but make people feel better in their own mind

And it is a fact had we been liquidated that we would not be eligible for the English leagues as a new founded welsh club has been denied entry to the English football leagues

So a liquated Cardiff city would have been starting out as a new name in the welsh leagues just as the new club founded by some that post on here is doing this season

And as I said I have not boycotted due to tan I welcomed his investment I no longer go as I've lost friends over the colour of a shirt when to me Cardiff city is what I believe in not a colour we have changed badges and shirts through our history many times and our history will never go away, it would have had we been liquidated!

And spinning this on me cos I didn't like hammann is a totally different ball game completely

You criticise anyone supporting tan now and the counter argument is if you go to games you are supporting him totally, you know this currently whilst he is chairman and you accepted the rebrand whilst he was/ and is chairman you know everything he is doing yet still attend

This is completely different to the hammann situation ergo the lies and spindle surrounding his reign only came out after he left the club so following at the time and attending games meant that I did not embrace what he was doing as I didn't know at the point he was in charge of the club had I known whilst he was in charge that he was racking up debt that could almost see us go to the wall would I still have gone to games maybe not

As I said this is a totally different argument to what I am saying whilst you continue to line tans pockets game after game season after season he will continue to do what he does

I will not lie in the fact that if my mates and I could go to games without friction and tension and agree that colour doesn't matter then I would go and fully support tans regime, I may not like a colour change but I accepted it two years ago for the future of this club that stance hasn't changed unlike most chameleons on here who's colours and agenda change week in week out

Great post smakerz

Barry keep arguing on here to make yourself feel better if that's what your conscience needs to take the weight off knowing you didn't give two hoots about the rebrand at the time £100m was dangled in front of your hooter

excuse me? Sorry, but you must have the wrong person. From the very moment the rebrand was suggested, I was very much against it. NEVER have I "not given two hoots" about the rebrand. Post history on this will prove it. I'll always debate points that I think are incorrect and I saw several inaccuracies in yours.

Protesting now will achieve very little but make people feel better in their own mind

absolutely. I protested at the time too. One of the very few.

And it is a fact had we been liquidated that we would not be eligible for the English leagues as a new founded welsh club has been denied entry to the English football leagues

I didn't say that wasn't a fact, I pointed out other things were not factual.

So a liquated Cardiff city would have been starting out as a new name in the welsh leagues just as the new club founded by some that post on here is doing this season

And as I said I have not boycotted due to tan I welcomed his investment I no longer go as I've lost friends over the colour of a shirt when to me Cardiff city is what I believe in not a colour we have changed badges and shirts through our history many times and our history will never go away, it would have had we been liquidated!

it wouldn't have. I didn't ask about Tan. I asked about Hammam.

And spinning this on me cos I didn't like hammann is a totally different ball game completely

no it isn't. I'm against Tan and you are telling me I shouldn't go. By that notion, when you were against Hammam, did you stop going? Or are you just a hypocrite?

You criticise anyone supporting tan now and the counter argument is if you go to games you are supporting him totally, you know this currently whilst he is chairman and you accepted the rebrand whilst he was/ and is chairman you know everything he is doing yet still attend

never accepted the rebrand.

This is completely different to the hammann situation ergo the lies and spindle surrounding his reign only came out after he left the club so following at the time and attending games meant that I did not embrace what he was doing as I didn't know at the point he was in charge of the club had I known whilst he was in charge that he was racking up debt that could almost see us go to the wall would I still have gone to games maybe not

no it isn't.

As I said this is a totally different argument to what I am saying whilst you continue to line tans pockets game after game season after season he will continue to do what he does
no it isn't.

I will not lie in the fact that if my mates and I could go to games without friction and tension and agree that colour doesn't matter then I would go and fully support tans regime, I may not like a colour change but I accepted it two years ago for the future of this club that stance hasn't changed unlike most chameleons on here who's colours and agenda change week in week out

We are the laughing stock of football. Unfortunately, that will be part of our history as well.
worse thing is, how far will he go before he gives up

Remember reading someone with a masters degree in Asian economics posting potential benefits of the rebrand on here at one time. But I don't think he got much attention. Says a lot really..

Barry keep arguing on here to make yourself feel better if that's what your conscience needs to take the weight off knowing you didn't give two hoots about the rebrand at the time £100m was dangled in front of your hooter

excuse me? Sorry, but you must have the wrong person. From the very moment the rebrand was suggested, I was very much against it. NEVER have I "not given two hoots" about the rebrand. Post history on this will prove it. I'll always debate points that I think are incorrect and I saw several inaccuracies in yours.

Protesting now will achieve very little but make people feel better in their own mind

absolutely. I protested at the time too. One of the very few.

And it is a fact had we been liquidated that we would not be eligible for the English leagues as a new founded welsh club has been denied entry to the English football leagues

I didn't say that wasn't a fact, I pointed out other things were not factual.

So a liquated Cardiff city would have been starting out as a new name in the welsh leagues just as the new club founded by some that post on here is doing this season

And as I said I have not boycotted due to tan I welcomed his investment I no longer go as I've lost friends over the colour of a shirt when to me Cardiff city is what I believe in not a colour we have changed badges and shirts through our history many times and our history will never go away, it would have had we been liquidated!

it wouldn't have. I didn't ask about Tan. I asked about Hammam.

And spinning this on me cos I didn't like hammann is a totally different ball game completely

no it isn't. I'm against Tan and you are telling me I shouldn't go. By that notion, when you were against Hammam, did you stop going? Or are you just a hypocrite?

You criticise anyone supporting tan now and the counter argument is if you go to games you are supporting him totally, you know this currently whilst he is chairman and you accepted the rebrand whilst he was/ and is chairman you know everything he is doing yet still attend

never accepted the rebrand.

This is completely different to the hammann situation ergo the lies and spindle surrounding his reign only came out after he left the club so following at the time and attending games meant that I did not embrace what he was doing as I didn't know at the point he was in charge of the club had I known whilst he was in charge that he was racking up debt that could almost see us go to the wall would I still have gone to games maybe not

no it isn't.

As I said this is a totally different argument to what I am saying whilst you continue to line tans pockets game after game season after season he will continue to do what he does
no it isn't.

I will not lie in the fact that if my mates and I could go to games without friction and tension and agree that colour doesn't matter then I would go and fully support tans regime, I may not like a colour change but I accepted it two years ago for the future of this club that stance hasn't changed unlike most chameleons on here who's colours and agenda change week in week out

The hammann situation is 100% different you can't boycott against a chairman who whilst chairman had hidden all the issues he had made which only came about after his reign to argue otherwise is idiotic

You did also state that liquidation wouldn't have meant starting in the leagues as a fact look at original response to my post that you made

As away Alex u will argue over anything the fact is there was barely any protest to the original rebrand and that is why it went ahead tan continues to do what he wants cos we as fans are lining his pockets week in week out

Until that changes or by some miracle tan has a u-turn or sells up then the best way to put across a point is to boycott games

I won't bother answering you anymore as you can't argue a point with any evidence whatsoever as usual you continue turning up to games lining the Man you supposedly despises pockets whilst prentending to give a damn by holding your scarf aloft on 19.27 minutes just a to make you feel like you are doing something finally to go against the rebrand two years to late

We'd be a struggling champ side in blue with this badge

As opposed to being £160m in debt and rising

my point being I'd rather be back blue and have the threat of administration