" I have been told totally different regarding Vincent Tan"

besides. I still can't believe you haven't sussed what's been going on the last few weeks/months

What's that then Natman? You often criticise Carl & Annis for hinting they know something and not telling anyone, yet you are doing exactly that in this thread?!

besides. I still can't believe you haven't sussed what's been going on the last few weeks/months

What's that then Natman? You often criticise Carl & Annis for hinting they know something and not telling anyone, yet you are doing exactly that in this thread?!

I'm not hinting at anything, it's been pretty obvious if yoy really look.

I'm not hinting at anything, it's been pretty obvious if yoy really look.

You are. If you weren't hinting something, you'd come out and directly say it. I just think it stinks of hypocrisy, seeing as you constantly criticise Annis & Carl for doing similar.

I'm not looking, seeing as I have no clue what you're hints are on about.

I'm not hinting at anything, it's been pretty obvious if yoy really look.

You are. If you weren't hinting something, you'd come out and directly say it. I just think it stinks of hypocrisy, seeing as you constantly criticise Annis & Carl for doing similar.

I'm not looking, seeing as I have no clue what you're hints are on about.

Well I was asking annis

I'm not hinting at anything, it's been pretty obvious if yoy really look.

You are. If you weren't hinting something, you'd come out and directly say it. I just think it stinks of hypocrisy, seeing as you constantly criticise Annis & Carl for doing similar.

I'm not looking, seeing as I have no clue what you're hints are on about.

Well I was asking annis

Ok Nat, when you ask on a public forum, your asking everyone

Okay, well I think your post stinks of hypocrisy. Whinging in the Bellamy thread about hints and secrets, then doing exactly the same yourself on this thread.

Okay, well I think your post stinks of hypocrisy. Whinging in the Bellamy thread about hints and secrets, then doing exactly the same yourself on this thread.

Alex, that is Natman down to a tee

funny because I thought I was replying to you annis. But if yoy can't answer that's fine, no need to hide it by having a go

I wouldn't talk too much about hypocrisy either if I were you

funny because I thought I was replying to you annis. But if yoy can't answer that's fine, no need to hide it by having a go

I wouldn't talk too much about hypocrisy either if I were you

Ok Nat

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

funny because I thought I was replying to you annis. But if yoy can't answer that's fine, no need to hide it by having a go

I wouldn't talk too much about hypocrisy either if I were you

Ok Nat

cool

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

Look who is talking Nat

I'm off now to get some sleep, then Alton Towers early morning Night

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

Look who is talking Nat


I'm off now to get some sleep, then Alton Towers early morning Night

?

Yes his family want him out because the Face Book episode and tan is pissed off with the verbal abuse not the 1927.

where have I given any reasoning for this? I've not even mentioned 1927 as for upset fans? Whilst I don't condone their behaviour, that's what happens when you disrespect fans and club identity/traditions.

However on the 30th May Tan said the manager is the right man to take the club back up. If we go up he will be the right man to take us forward. I will then bring them over to Malaysia in the summer. Doesnt sound that he'll sell at any time soon, at least until the value of the club rises. Not sure if this was a sticky?

so he's not looking to leave because he has plans for a trip to Malaysia in a few years time?! okay.

Don't get smart. Tan doesn't mind the 1927 but detests the personal insults is a fact. It's not repeating what you said. It's an issue which is obvious to everyone that it's not a good match day experience. Get it now.
If Tan has left why the he'll would he invite the team to Malaysia.when he quotes we l understand that it includes him as well.so when (we) go up means he's here least until next May.
Get it now. If you still don't understand ask someone to explain it to you.
That's me out can't be arsed to argue with you that's all you seem to want.

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

what?! Behaving petty?! I've called you a hypocrite, because you are acting like one. You're happy to have a pop at Annis in the Bellamy thread for dropping hints & that, yet do exactly the same yourself here..

Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks it either... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142494#p1504426

I accept that you don't care about the blue.... You quite rightly demand that you are allowed to air that opinion, yet when anyone else gives their opinion on it, you complain and get annoyed, demanding that negative views get silenced...

Maybe if you gave the respect to others that you demand of your own posts, you'll find that you don't get into these petty squabbles.

I'd love nothing more than to debate it with you, but take a look at yourself whilst you are criticising others.

Don't get smart. Tan doesn't mind the 1927 but detests the personal insults is a fact. It's not repeating what you said. It's an issue which is obvious to everyone that it's not a good match day experience. Get it now.

I got it the first time, but you tried correcting me for something I never even said. Bizarre.

If Tan has left why the he'll would he invite the team to Malaysia.when he quotes we l understand that it includes him as well.so when (we) go up means he's here least until next May.

you do realise that basing an opinion that Tan will stay long term because he said he may take the team on a trip in a few years time, is Barmy, to be honest.

Get it now. If you still don't understand ask someone to explain it to you.
That's me out can't be arsed to argue with you that's all you seem to want.

hope you get it now. If not, I'll get someone to explain it to you.

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

what?! Behaving petty?! I've called you a hypocrite, because you are acting like one. You're happy to have a pop at Annis in the Bellamy thread for dropping hints & that, yet do exactly the same yourself here..

Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks it either... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=142494#p1504426

I accept that you don't care about the blue.... You quite rightly demand that you are allowed to air that opinion, yet when anyone else gives their opinion on it, you complain and get annoyed, demanding that negative views get silenced...

Maybe if you gave the respect to others that you demand of your own posts, you'll find that you don't get into these petty squabbles.

I'd love nothing more than to debate it with you, but take a look at yourself whilst you are criticising others.

Wrong on every account again. Oh chuckles

I think Grumpyguts has Alex down to a tee. I've tried to discuss things with you normally but you seem intent on behaving petty. If you want to do that then I'll just revert to my old responses. Shame because I thought I was seeing a different side to you the last few days andwas hoping we could actually start debating instead of this poor tit for tat thing you seem to want to keep going

People need to realise that tan wont be asking £150m for the club, not even he is that bonkers.

Lets say he moves you on next year....

1) Partial debt to equity leaving £100m odd debt.

2) he can keep transfer fees from the likes of mutch, marshall, caulker, campbell and medel (£30 millilon)

3) he can keep parachute money from this season and next (£40 odd million)

4) he can keep two lots of season ticket money (£10m odd)

5) he can sell the likes of Daeli and John should they have good campaigns.

That may leave £10-£15m for him to break even, so that will probably be around the figure he will want for his shares. Not a bad price at all IMO.

This is asset stripping, a concept i brought to you the day he took over yet it was called scaremongering back then

Your point is correct, however I believe the figures will differ and it worries me that Tan could of course sell more players to redeem his monies.

People need to realise that tan wont be asking £150m for the club, not even he is that bonkers.

Lets say he moves you on next year....

1) Partial debt to equity leaving £100m odd debt.

2) he can keep transfer fees from the likes of mutch, marshall, caulker, campbell and medel (£30 millilon)

3) he can keep parachute money from this season and next (£40 odd million)

4) he can keep two lots of season ticket money (£10m odd)

5) he can sell the likes of Daeli and John should they have good campaigns.

That may leave £10-£15m for him to break even, so that will probably be around the figure he will want for his shares. Not a bad price at all IMO.

This is asset stripping, a concept i brought to you the day he took over yet it was called scaremongering back then

Your point is correct, however I believe the figures will differ and it worries me that Tan could of course sell more players to redeem his monies.

If he takes the amounts stated above then how does the club trade in those two seasons if all the income has been taken by tan.
Where's the money to pay the wages of players and staff.
He needs to get us back to the premier this season and keep us up the following one to have any realistic chance of getting his money back and selling us on.
As for the original question from annis I doubt very much if anybody could gauge what goes on in tans head on a day to day basis bearing in mind he sacks lim and reinstates him on an average of twice a week.

I reckon Tan has been looking at moving on for a while. Even before we got promoted I would say. Was not Tan caught on video in the undercover documentary where someone was trying ot show how easy it was to sell a football club. This was at the time when Malky had just joined us and some Watford troll on here glorofied that MM had made the wrong move.

Anyway if we fail to go up the value of the club will be a fraction of the debt owed. So asset stripping will not be a good route to go down as the assets will be off small value. Tan will be better off selling with everything in tact than running it down to the barebone.

If we go up its obvious the club will be of a higher value but I doubt it will be valued at the debt level. Personally I dont think it will be that much higher valued to make a huge difference. The costs will be highter therefore having an adverse effect on the price.

Tan has had his fingers burnt here and it could not happen to a nicer guy as the saying goes.

People need to realise that tan wont be asking £150m for the club, not even he is that bonkers.

Lets say he moves you on next year....

1) Partial debt to equity leaving £100m odd debt.

2) he can keep transfer fees from the likes of mutch, marshall, caulker, campbell and medel (£30 millilon)

3) he can keep parachute money from this season and next (£40 odd million)

4) he can keep two lots of season ticket money (£10m odd)

5) he can sell the likes of Daeli and John should they have good campaigns.

That may leave £10-£15m for him to break even, so that will probably be around the figure he will want for his shares. Not a bad price at all IMO.

This is asset stripping, a concept i brought to you the day he took over yet it was called scaremongering back then

Your point is correct, however I believe the figures will differ and it worries me that Tan could of course sell more players to redeem his monies.

If he takes the amounts stated above then how does the club trade in those two seasons if all the income has been taken by tan.
Where's the money to pay the wages of players and staff.
He needs to get us back to the premier th is season and keep us up the following one to have any realistic chance of getting his money back and selling us on.

if tan takes all these assets as stated above who in right mind Will buy club knowing they got no season ticking money or parachute payments can't have cake &eat it? no money no sale of club, and no team other then trainees , couldn't afford anything else ask pompy believe there owner did same thing, and have things been put in place to stop it happening again ?


As for the original question from annis I doubt very much if anybody could gauge what goes on in tans head on a day to day basis bearing in mind he sacks lim and reinstates him on an average of twice a week.

People need to realise that tan wont be asking £150m for the club, not even he is that bonkers.

Lets say he moves you on next year....

1) Partial debt to equity leaving £100m odd debt.

2) he can keep transfer fees from the likes of mutch, marshall, caulker, campbell and medel (£30 millilon)

3) he can keep parachute money from this season and next (£40 odd million)

4) he can keep two lots of season ticket money (£10m odd)

5) he can sell the likes of Daeli and John should they have good campaigns.

That may leave £10-£15m for him to break even, so that will probably be around the figure he will want for his shares. Not a bad price at all IMO.

This is asset stripping, a concept i brought to you the day he took over yet it was called scaremongering back then

Your point is correct, however I believe the figures will differ and it worries me that Tan could of course sell more players to redeem his monies.

If he takes the amounts stated above then how does the club trade in those two seasons if all the income has been taken by tan.
Where's the money to pay the wages of players and staff.
He needs to get us back to the premier this season and keep us up the following one to have any realistic chance of getting his money back and selling us on.
As for the original question from annis I doubt very much if anybody could gauge what goes on in tans head on a day to day basis bearing in mind he sacks lim and reinstates him on an average of twice a week.

The income of a Cardiff City Championship side without parachute payments is £17m. Or about £12m after ticket sales which i have already counted in his stash.

That will give around £10m shortfall for the season or circa 800k per month. This could easily be tacked on to the sale of his shares from £15m to £25m or indeed the new owner would inherit £10m of loan notes.

He doesnt have to recoup all his money by the time he leaves - people seem to forget that. Look at Sam for example.

if tan takes all these assets as stated above who in right mind Will buy club knowing they got no season ticking money or parachute payments can't have cake &eat it? no money no sale of club, and no team other then trainees , couldn't afford anything else ask pompy believe there owner did same thing, and have things been put in place to stop it happening again ?

The value of the club takes into account the depreciated value of the asset stripping. The large percentage of the squad will still be there so not sure why you are talking about trainees , the stadium will still be there and so will future revenues. Its a bit like saying who would buy man united if rooney and van Persie were sold.

The fact is, it is a football club in a capital city with a decent sized stadium, minimal debt and in the second tier. It will ALWAYS sell if priced correctly and at £15m they will be queuing up.

People dont like to think there is a way out for tan but there is and there always was going to be, hence why he is successful and rich, there is always an escape plan linked to how much he puts in, as ive been saying for years and years.

Nothing really shocking here is there as in business owners come and go and with football clubs in particular it happens a lot.

VT has also said in a TV interview that he isn't enjoying being involved with our club and that his family and friends have told him to get out, but in the same interview he has said he WILL continue to back OGS next season and that he expects that backing to result in promotion. As a highly successful businessman no doubts he understands the value of the club will be higher as a PL club than it will be as a Championship club, but it could also be argued that the club would be worth more as an established PL club than a one season wonder. So who can say with any certainty that VT will leave during or at the end of the coming season, no one, it's just a subject to speculate on.

As for this £150m we appear to be in debt to VT I would think it's better to wait until the club accounts are published before believing this to be a fact. Better still wait until the accounts for the coming season are published as with the income from the sale of players, together with the £23m parachute payments, the requirements of the Football League FFP Regulations, and of course VT may get around to a debt to equity swap on part of his loans, the club may be better placed in a years time than any of us could imagine.

Make no mistake about it eventually VT will sell up and I'm sure many will say "I told you so" but, in my opinion, it may be two or three years down the line before that happens.

I know it's a cliche but sometimes "It's better the devil you know" so just be careful what you wish for.

Nothing really shocking here is there as in business owners come and go and with football clubs in particular it happens a lot.

VT has also said in a TV interview that he isn't enjoying being involved with our club and that his family and friends have told him to get out, but in the same interview he has said he WILL continue to back OGS next season and that he expects that backing to result in promotion. As a highly successful businessman no doubts he understands the value of the club will be higher as a PL club than it will be as a Championship club, but it could also be argued that the club would be worth more as an established PL club than a one season wonder. So who can say with any certainty that VT will leave during or at the end of the coming season, no one, it's just a subject to speculate on.

As for this £150m we appear to be in debt to VT I would think it's better to wait until the club accounts are published before believing this to be a fact. Better still wait until the accounts for the coming season are published as with the income from the sale of players, together with the £23m parachute payments, the requirements of the Football League FFP Regulations, and of course VT may get around to a debt to equity swap on part of his loans, the club may be better placed in a years time than any of us could imagine.

Make no mistake about it eventually VT will sell up and I'm sure many will say "I told you so" but, in my opinion, it may be two or three years down the line before that happens.

I know it's a cliche but sometimes "It's better the devil you know" so just be careful what you wish for.

that the annoying thing about the board for me castle all the threads saying we must drive tan out but nobody has a credible argument as to what happens to the club if he walks and how it survives.
its already been proved once that there was no one there for us when we were facing liquidation except for tan.
the other question that the tan haters never answer is if he does sell up and the new owner wants to remain red do the demonstrations start afresh against the new regime.
how many billionaires do people think are out there ready to invest in a football club where the supporters actively demonstrate against the owner.
having said that the agenda on here is very much driven by the board owner and if ( which i doubt) that tan ever viewed the boards he would see on mike morris's board that the views are less aggressive.
The hypocrisy is amazing as well because i was looking at pictures of the brighton game last night and all around the ground there were thousands of people with their red scarfs around their necks and being held up at certain times all in the areas where now people hold a blue scarf up instead.
says everything you need to know about our fan base

Nothing really shocking here is there as in business owners come and go and with football clubs in particular it happens a lot.

VT has also said in a TV interview that he isn't enjoying being involved with our club and that his family and friends have told him to get out, but in the same interview he has said he WILL continue to back OGS next season and that he expects that backing to result in promotion. As a highly successful businessman no doubts he understands the value of the club will be higher as a PL club than it will be as a Championship club, but it could also be argued that the club would be worth more as an established PL club than a one season wonder. So who can say with any certainty that VT will leave during or at the end of the coming season, no one, it's just a subject to speculate on.

As for this £150m we appear to be in debt to VT I would think it's better to wait until the club accounts are published before believing this to be a fact. Better still wait until the accounts for the coming season are published as with the income from the sale of players, together with the £23m parachute payments, the requirements of the Football League FFP Regulations, and of course VT may get around to a debt to equity swap on part of his loans, the club may be better placed in a years time than any of us could imagine.

Make no mistake about it eventually VT will sell up and I'm sure many will say "I told you so" but, in my opinion, it may be two or three years down the line before that happens.

I know it's a cliche but sometimes "It's better the devil you know" so just be careful what you wish for.

that the annoying thing about the board for me castle all the threads saying we must drive tan out but nobody has a credible argument as to what happens to the club if he walks and how it survives.
its already been proved once that there was no one there for us when we were facing liquidation except for tan.
the other question that the tan haters never answer is if he does sell up and the new owner wants to remain red do the demonstrations start afresh against the new regime.
how many billionaires do people think are out there ready to invest in a football club where the supporters actively demonstrate against the owner.
having said that the agenda on here is very much driven by the board owner and if ( which i doubt) that tan ever viewed the boards he would see on mike morris's board that the views are less aggressive.
The hypocrisy is amazing as well because i was looking at pictures of the brighton game last night and all around the ground there were thousands of people with their red scarfs around their necks and being held up at certain times all in the areas where now people hold a blue scarf up instead.
says everything you need to know about our fan base

Steve anyone that thinks a thread starting with " I've been told" is based on fact needs a reality check.
Tan has said many things and we all know that he and his family detest the verbal abuse, and who of us wouldn't.
More to the point Tan is neither an asset stripper a stupid business man. He prides himself in building not demolishing. Even as these comments come out he's actually investing more money into the club,and it seems planning for at least a year ahead . In his words to the Malaysia media last week.
As far as I'm concerned the only Set back on his plans was the relegation and loss of a mismanaged 20 million plus. What's so evident on this board is if it's negative less highlight it.

Why do you need a billionaire to take over?

The attitudes of Cardiff fans is insane. Do you think Huw Jenkins is a billionaire then steve?

The job of an owner should be to spend the clubs money wisely not loan the club his own.

Ive given countless credible scenarios once Tan leaves. Its not a mind bending business plan.

(Oh and you never apologised for your accusation i was using a multi the other day, expected better from you.)

Nothing really shocking here is there as in business owners come and go and with football clubs in particular it happens a lot.

VT has also said in a TV interview that he isn't enjoying being involved with our club and that his family and friends have told him to get out, but in the same interview he has said he WILL continue to back OGS next season and that he expects that backing to result in promotion. As a highly successful businessman no doubts he understands the value of the club will be higher as a PL club than it will be as a Championship club, but it could also be argued that the club would be worth more as an established PL club than a one season wonder. So who can say with any certainty that VT will leave during or at the end of the coming season, no one, it's just a subject to speculate on.

As for this £150m we appear to be in debt to VT I would think it's better to wait until the club accounts are published before believing this to be a fact. Better still wait until the accounts for the coming season are published as with the income from the sale of players, together with the £23m parachute payments, the requirements of the Football League FFP Regulations, and of course VT may get around to a debt to equity swap on part of his loans, the club may be better placed in a years time than any of us could imagine.

Make no mistake about it eventually VT will sell up and I'm sure many will say "I told you so" but, in my opinion, it may be two or three years down the line before that happens.

I know it's a cliche but sometimes "It's better the devil you know" so just be careful what you wish for.

that the annoying thing about the board for me castle all the threads saying we must drive tan out but nobody has a credible argument as to what happens to the club if he walks and how it survives.
its already been proved once that there was no one there for us when we were facing liquidation except for tan.
the other question that the tan haters never answer is if he does sell up and the new owner wants to remain red do the demonstrations start afresh against the new regime.
how many billionaires do people think are out there ready to invest in a football club where the supporters actively demonstrate against the owner.
having said that the agenda on here is very much driven by the board owner and if ( which i doubt) that tan ever viewed the boards he would see on mike morris's board that the views are less aggressive.
The hypocrisy is amazing as well because i was looking at pictures of the brighton game last night and all around the ground there were thousands of people with their red scarfs around their necks and being held up at certain times all in the areas where now people hold a blue scarf up instead.
says everything you need to know about our fan base

Steve anyone that thinks a thread starting with " I've been told" is based on fact needs a reality check.
Tan has said many things and we all know that he and his family detest the verbal abuse, and who of us wouldn't.
More to the point Tan is neither an asset stripper a stupid business man. He prides himself in building not demolishing. Even as these comments come out he's actually investing more money into the club,and it seems planning for at least a year ahead . In his words to the Malaysia media last week.
As far as I'm concerned the only Set back on his plans was the relegation and loss of a mismanaged 20 million plus. What's so evident on this board is if it's negative less highlight it.

Correction
"Neither an asset stripper or a stupid businessman."
"If it's negative let's highlight it."

Why do you need a billionaire to take over?

The attitudes of Cardiff fans is insane. Do you think Huw Jenkins is a billionaire then steve?

The job of an owner should be to spend the clubs money wisely not loan the club his own.

Ive given countless credible scenarios once Tan leaves. Its not a mind bending business plan.

(Oh and you never apologised for your accusation i was using a multi the other day, expected better from you.)

Well whoever comes in has to be pretty rich if they want to buy out Tan and invest in assets seeing as we won't have any