I'm happy to compromise with Vincent Tan

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

he has made himself unwelcome.....with a total lack of respect...

I'm not.

What's wrong with Cardiff City being Cardiff City.

Tan can f**k off I've had enough of the disrespectful tw*t.

Debt to equity was one of the conditions for accepting the rebrand... Which is why many were so "reluctantly accepting" the rebrand.

As time has gone on & his promise has looked less likely, the fans have started to question it (fairly in my mind). Now that it is not going to happen, I think the fans are quite right to feel angry that he has reneged on his part of the deal & will therefore no longer reluctantly accept the rebrand.

But we aren't accepting the rebrand we are fighting it with marches and songs making him look a tw*t to his peers. Fair enough we have that right but we cannot then demand he follows through when we haven't.

I will point out I would prefer blue back I just am pointing out the obvious.

But we aren't accepting the rebrand we are fighting it with marches and songs making him look a tw*t to his peers. Fair enough we have that right but we cannot then demand he follows through when we haven't.

I will point out I would prefer blue back I just am pointing out the obvious.

Which I've already said is because many fans have become very distrusting on his promise of debt to equity, which they seem to have been right to not trust.

The grow in numbers who are against the rebrand have come as a direct result of his constant deleting tactics - personally feel the the never intended to do it in the first place.

Of course, many like myself, have been against the rebrand from the moment it was mentioned & have never accepted it.

Gavin, an excellent, well considered, concilliatory and (no doubt to some) controversial post...

Spot on in the main and time for ALL PARTIES (Tan, Board, Paying Fans) to work together for the GOOD of Cardiff CITY FC rather than short-termisms

Given that it is now increasingly apparent that Tan (a) is likely more right than wrong on the Malky/Moodie issue, and (b) appears ready to 'consider' the fans, then (as I've stated before) it's time to move forward and consign the mistakes of the past to the bins of history for the FUTURE benefit of our now wounded club

Ultimately, Tan holds the majority of the cards, but neither side can truly move forward without the other...FACT!

Forget who is to blame (neither side has been whiter than white) and embrace the opportunity for dialogue

How is plunging this club into more debt than ever & reneging on a promise to wipe it, in any way good for the long term for Cardiff City FC?

Surely going along with Tan's regime is short sighted...

Alex, at the moment Tan can 'cover' the debt but no-one (including him) wants it to increase TBF

Everyone on here has an 'agenda' (including me) but the credibility of each 'agenda' all depends on whether that has the genuine interests of Cardiff City Football Club at heart AND IS BOTH WORKABLE AND ACHIEVABLE!

Personally, I don't see it as "going along with Tan's regime" if there is a genuine dialogue between two parties (i.e. owner and paying fans) and compromise can be reached, which will in turn create a better understanding of each others view and allow the club to move forward harmoniously, which is surely what anyone who truly cares about the club wants?

Tan won't be here forever, that is a fact, but whilst he is he is able to effectively "call the shots" whether we like it or not and unless we can start to show a little of the respect that some so freely accuse him of lacking, then the whole future of the club we purport to "love" will once again come under real threat, just a few short years after we all thought those days had gone forever!

Shirt colour and 'debt-to-equity' are certainly issues at Cardiff City FC that MUST be addressed sooner rather than later, if the club is to move on, but not "at all costs" as some on here so freely desire

We need to be a little wiser as to what we wish for sometimes, as I think Tan is a man who understands the term "There's no sentiment in business" (and sadly that, to him, includes football)

I know that I am in the minority on this messageboard, but I feel that out of the 28000 fans who have watched City most home games this season, I think my opinion would be fairly common.

I want blue back, but I want Tan to remain as our majority shareholder/owner, I am willing to compromise with Tan, if he is willing to put a fan on the board and have regular contact between the senior board members and the supports trust, I would be happy to support Tan's leadership into next season and the long term future.

Its clear that the rebrand has been a terrible failure, Tan knows that, we know that, today he has given his first indication that he is willing to take a backwards step from the 'all red' kit and make some compromises to give the fans blue on the home kit, which we all want, but he isn't going to give that for nothing in return, he wants us to give a little too, allow him the owner and majority shareholder, to also be represented on the kit. We as fans can not just take take take

I guarantee if Tan just rolled over tomorrow and give the Blue back, the next day fans would want the old badge back, then they would want a full debt to equity conversion, then they would want a massive transfer budget, then they would want immediate promotion, then they would want even bigger transfer funds for the Prem (all funded by Tan though, heaven forbid the club should pay) then they would want a big challenge in the prem, then reduced ticket prices and then they would want Tan out anyway because he should have never fucked with the fans in the first place. Dare I say it sometimes I feel the club is dealing with a section of the fan base acting like a spoiled child.

I have stood in the Ninian Stand all season with a blue and white scarf, I've always sung 'always be blue' but I will never join in all the 'Tan is a wanker' and 'Tan Out' chants, he doesn't deserve such ridicule, he has helped move our club forward in many many ways, this will always be a regrettable season due to 'off field' crap and I honestly cant see how Tan can win over the fan base as whatever he does, they will never accept him.

But look at the good things he has done for us, I am not going to list them all, we all know the position the club was in when he turned up, we went from that to buying Caulker, Medel and Cornelius, big transfer fees that the die hard fans that attended that legendary 'rainy Tuesday night fixture in Rochdale' could only dream about. They didnt all work out but is that Tan's fault? of course not!

Whether you like it or not, Tan has moved the club along, further than anyone else in the clubs history, and while we all want blue back, you've got to accept that you cant have it all our own way under this owner, he wants compromise, and im sure we will get it, clearly we arent going to start wearing red as a compromise, but perhaps not mocking him and heckling him when he is in attendance at the CCS would be a start.

Finaly a very wise man. This is the most sensible article Ive seen here. Dialogue is the key.

Agree with what your saying Gavin.

Here are my thoughts. To me it seems to come across a lot like "spoilt brats throwing their toys out of the pram" for me this season. I didn't see many people opposing the rebrand last season when we were on our way to the premier league and as shown by an old thread this week there were lots of people who now "oppose" the rebrand were lapping up the idea he was going to invest lots of cash into the club. It seemed to me at the time back in November when it looked like Tan was interfering and Malky was about to get the sack, it obviously looked at that time we were going to be doomed to relegation, that was when a big fuss started to get kicked up lot's of people on here ranting and raving saying Tan out etc.

Next you have fans who are demanding the return for blue (which is the right thing) but also want the debt to equity as well, want money spent on players, want us back in the Premier League, want more involvement in the board meetings. Why would he want to give all this is if he isn't going to get anything back except maybe less hate. There's no point him fully converting his debt whilst the majority of the fanbase hate his guts and want him to leave, there's no point converting all the debt if we just want him to carry on spending more money. Is he going to have to keep converting his debt as it increases?

My issue with the debt to equity is that it was indeed a promise in exchange for the rebrand and he has honoured all the other promises he stated. However, if fans no longer want the rebrand why should he have to stick the promise?

We as fans need to decide fully what we want. Do we want Tan out? Do we want a return to blue but Tan still involved? I feel if its the former than we have to be willing to stick our guns and accept whatever the outcome of that means if its us entering admin and falling down the leagues so be it. If its the latter than we need to make comprimises, there's no point demanding all this and expecting him to stay specially with the amount of abuse aimed at him. If we want our blue kit back than excellent but we have to realise we will have to give up the other things. We aren't going to get everything if Tan is to remain.

Just my thoughts, I am not a Tan supporter and all I want is our traditional colours and a debt free club. However, I feel only one of those things is going to ever likely happen.

But we aren't accepting the rebrand we are fighting it with marches and songs making him look a tw*t to his peers. Fair enough we have that right but we cannot then demand he follows through when we haven't.

I will point out I would prefer blue back I just am pointing out the obvious.

Which I've already said is because many fans have become very distrusting on his promise of debt to equity, which they seem to have been right to not trust.

The grow in numbers who are against the rebrand have come as a direct result of his constant deleting tactics - personally feel the the never intended to do it in the first place.

Of course, many like myself, have been against the rebrand from the moment it was mentioned & have never accepted it.

those shouting the loudest about debt to equity are those shouting the loudest for him to f .off
does this really add up to you?........is that fair.?

You just have to be the new moniker of soulofthesea.

If he offers a comprimise, take it, it gets a foot in the door. Like a sweetheart deal. Once your foot is in the door you can begin ro creek it open further and further

he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

So you have evidence to prove this?

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

You dream!!!

he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

So you have evidence to prove this?

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

You dream!!!

Baz speaking perfect sense there.

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

Not the first chairman to lie though Carl is he who could forget " it's my debt and when I leave the club the debt leaves with me" or " I guarantee all the early bird season ticket money will be given to dave jones to strengthen the squad and will not go toward the tax bill"
I look at this mess now and wonder where the club would be now if Sam turned his debt to equity a few years back.

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

Not the first chairman to lie though Carl is he who could forget " it's my debt and when I leave the club the debt leaves with me" or " I guarantee all the early bird season ticket money will be given to dave jones to strengthen the squad and will not go toward the tax bill"
I look at this mess now and wonder where the club would be now if Sam turned his debt to equity a few years back.

Sam bought ice cream though

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

Thats where I am at too Carl, but adding 'or else walk away as threatened'

Last edited by tangledupinblue on Mon May 12, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

So you have evidence to prove this?

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

You dream!!!

Baz speaking perfect sense there.

After watching the recent video of vincent tan talking about MM, I accept his family don't want him here so I was wrong about that so apologies for that. I still stand by the dream comment though..

he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

So you have evidence to prove this?

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

You dream!!!

Evidence? Yes, he says this himself in yesterday's Wales Online interview.

As for dreaming? Nope. Definitely not dreaming. That would be real progression.

The debt to equity switch was promised partly in return for the re brand. Can't see why we shouldn't be demanding part of that now as well as blue. If the debt really is £120m now I can see why he can't convert it all as the debt at the time of the re brand was probably more like £30-50m

Tan said in the BBC interview on saturday that he wouldn't walk away and let it go bust, as HE would find another buyer as that would be the right thing to do.
People seem to have overlooked that point.

Tan said in the BBC interview on saturday that he wouldn't walk away and let it go bust, as HE would find another buyer as that would be the right thing to do.
People seem to have overlooked that point.

Do you believe him?
Or just picking and choosing what parts you believe?

Purely as he's a businessman, and his business credentials would take a huge hit if he let a company of his go bust, then yes for once I believe him.
On that point only though.

So hes a liar when it suits....got ya lol

Tan has made mistakes and probably will continue to do so. But he has been far better than a lot of other chairman. And when the legal case was avoided amd MM apologised it seemed like the fair minded on this forum had agreed that MM was not entirely honourable in his dealings with the club VT and the fans. Somehow that has been twisted and we are back on the abusive bile against Tan wagon.
Great post from Gavin - as my mother used to say . Common senseisnt that common!! Like a ray of sunshine amid the dark clouds of cynicism and blind prejudice
We are CCFC the bluebirds. Whoever the owner is..... Dyn ni yma o hyd! We are still here!
Treating Tan with some decency is more likely to get him to listen rather than infantile abuse.

As bad as it sounds, won't be buying another season ticket unless we're back in blue with our badge or one the fans want and if that means a relegated Cardiff struggling with youth players free falling the divisions so be it. If that means a Cardiff City in the conference then so be it.

Loads will disagree with me but if Tan asset strips and goes (unlikely) and we start the season with a points deduction I'll then buy a season ticket. I just don't see how giving him any more money is opposing his ideology and views for his version of Cardiff City FC.

Same here...

but we are in a minority (70 or less versus thousands and thousands)judging by the response two years ago.

So hes a liar when it suits....got ya lol

Yes, I think he's a liar when it suits him.......!

You just have to be the new moniker of soulofthesea.

keep a low profile Roathy , he thinks we havnt sussed him.

he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

So you have evidence to prove this?

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

You dream!!!

Alex doesnt need proof, he just makes it up.

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

initially the words "please god no!" went through my mind...but a fan who can't be bought is not a bad idea lol

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Hopefully you will be the only one that does

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

initially the words "please god no!" went through my mind...but a fan who can't be bought is not a bad idea lol

Hmmm