So..... Was it worth it?

Sorry mate but at what point did we have a choice?
Secondly I don't think wanting to be a big club and the best team in the country is a unique trate, your chatting shit

You had a choice when it happened, you have a choice every time you attend the match, you still have a choice.

As customers you hold all the cards, most know that deep down yet choose not to lay them down and force Tans hand because it is more fun to bury your head to the power the fanbase has and instead create plausible deniability to get on the rollercoaster under the pretence of "there is nothing we can do".

It is no coincidence that the only murmur of a protest (two years after the fact) was when the rollercoaster looked to be grinding to a halt.

As for your second point. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a big club or indeed the best team in the country - but that isnt what ive layed at your fanbases door. My point os for some odd reason you guys think you ARE a big club and ARE the best club in the country and as such are happy to mortgage the club on a whim when someone comes in and panders to that delusion. 3rd time in a row its happened and 3rd time ending in tears.

The willingness to destroy your own clubs herritage to chase a crazy fantasy is indeed a unique trait. And after all this nonsense and all this debt you are still just a modest south wales club, if only the fans could match that description.

Sorry mate but at what point did we have a choice?
Secondly I don't think wanting to be a big club and the best team in the country is a unique trate, your chatting shit

You had a choice when it happened, you have a choice every time you attend the match, you still have a choice.

As customers you hold all the cards, most know that deep down yet choose not to lay them down and force Tans hand because it is more fun to bury your head to the power the fanbase has and instead create plausible deniability to get on the rollercoaster under the pretence of "there is nothing we can do".

It is no coincidence that the only murmur of a protest (two years after the fact) was when the rollercoaster looked to be grinding to a halt.

As for your second point. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a big club or indeed the best team in the country - but that isnt what ive layed at your fanbases door. My point os for some odd reason you guys think you ARE a big club and ARE the best club in the country and as such are happy to mortgage the club on a whim when someone comes in and panders to that delusion. 3rd time in a row its happened and 3rd time ending in tears.

The willingness to destroy your own clubs herritage to chase a crazy fantasy is indeed a unique trait. And after all this nonsense and all this debt you are still just a modest south wales club, if only the fans could match that description.

you think you ARE a big club and ARE the best club in Wales...........i think the world thinks that too dopey...your above us..thats it..but bigger and best will always be us..it eats at you every day..you come here with more of you missing,eaten away , every day..youll shrivel up and die one day and we will still be numero uno............

Good post really from Roathy, fair play.

Was it worth it? Of course it was. we have the potential to be a big club and we had more than enough potential to land in the top 15. Easily. I still think the 2 Points we lost against Sunderland done us in and we should have beat Palace.
Hopefully Tan will see that we need to play in Blue next season. as a United CCFC we will be back and we would have (hopefully) learnt from our mistakes.

It is no coincidence that the only murmur of a protest (two years after the fact) was when the rollercoaster looked to be grinding to a halt.

You know that's incorrect Roath, there have been small protests from the outset. The large majority have joined recently, but there were minority protests from the beginning. There have also been groups that tried to get things going from the off, sadly they were intimidated to a point that they didn't want to risk continuing.

So to say that there wasn't even a murmur of protest from the outset, is unfair.

We haven't even got to two years from the rebrand either, so don't know where that is coming from.

It would help if you posted more authentically.

I stopped reading after your first line. It just reeks of self importance.

It is no coincidence that the only murmur of a protest (two years after the fact) was when the rollercoaster looked to be grinding to a halt.

You know that's incorrect Roath, there have been small protests from the outset. The large majority have joined recently, but there were minority protests from the beginning. There have also been groups that tried to get things going from the off, sadly they were intimidated to a point that they didn't want to risk continuing.

So to say that there wasn't even a murmur of protest from the outset, is unfair.

We haven't even got to two years from the rebrand either, so don't know where that is coming from.

Barry. A couple of weeks ago when he was on is listen to me i am the voice of reason shit it was 3 years so at least the man with all the figures is getting nearer. As I said at the time he must have been a mystic.

Agree not been worth it.

I think when ole was brought in, judging by his comments on staying even if we go down and judging by January's signings I think it's been conceded we will be going down, hence no 25 million shit or bust attempt in January after learning in the summer it don't work.
I think Tan now realised you can't just spend big money and just end up a top half team.

Down, take the financial hit and attempt to come back up next year with another (small) budget.

No it was wasn't worth it and by god it has been the worst experience of my life! As for you saying why couldn't we see what most non city fans could I think it's easier for an outsider to see what's going on than ye insiders in my opinion.

As for a new set of players I agree with the debt we gonna be in we need to ship players like caulker, Medel, fabio cause no doubt their wages are through the roof. I would say get rid of Bellamy to but I think he retire this season. Based on ole signings this season I can't see him signing decent championship players.

As for the chairman and owner I really hope from the bottom of my heart they just get up and go next season. They must know their the reason the club is like it is and the way the fans are turning on players is their fault aswell.

But all us Cardiff fans can do is keep as much faith as we got left and pray that out club can get back to the way we were.

No need to hope, just invoke change.

The club belongs to the fans, maybe not by law but certainly by unwritten law. As the "customers", you call the shots. People just don't realise it or indeed do realise it - but give up their right to, in order to have plausible deniability to get on the crazy roller coaster at the clubs expense, citing "there is nothing we can do".

I would love Tans evil twin brother to buy your club and turn it upside down split the fans and make it a laughing stock and see what you actually did then. Instead of calling it from the outside..it's easy to say "do this, don't put up with that"

No it was wasn't worth it and by god it has been the worst experience of my life! As for you saying why couldn't we see what most non city fans could I think it's easier for an outsider to see what's going on than ye insiders in my opinion.

As for a new set of players I agree with the debt we gonna be in we need to ship players like caulker, Medel, fabio cause no doubt their wages are through the roof. I would say get rid of Bellamy to but I think he retire this season. Based on ole signings this season I can't see him signing decent championship players.

As for the chairman and owner I really hope from the bottom of my heart they just get up and go next season. They must know their the reason the club is like it is and the way the fans are turning on players is their fault aswell.

But all us Cardiff fans can do is keep as much faith as we got left and pray that out club can get back to the way we were.

No need to hope, just invoke change.

The club belongs to the fans, maybe not by law but certainly by unwritten law. As the "customers", you call the shots. People just don't realise it or indeed do realise it - but give up their right to, in order to have plausible deniability to get on the crazy roller coaster at the clubs expense, citing "there is nothing we can do".

I would love Tans evil twin brother to buy your club and turn it upside down split the fans and make it a laughing stock and see what you actually did then. Instead of calling it from the outside..it's easy to say "do this, don't put up with that"

He did, his name was Tony Petty.

Look up what we did

It is no coincidence that the only murmur of a protest (two years after the fact) was when the rollercoaster looked to be grinding to a halt.

You know that's incorrect Roath, there have been small protests from the outset. The large majority have joined recently, but there were minority protests from the beginning. There have also been groups that tried to get things going from the off, sadly they were intimidated to a point that they didn't want to risk continuing.

So to say that there wasn't even a murmur of protest from the outset, is unfair.

We haven't even got to two years from the rebrand either, so don't know where that is coming from.

There was nothing Barry and you know it. Barely mustering 200 people and even then it wasnt a protest it was a chat that kept coming to nothing or a poorly organised and attended event.

This is a subject we have talked about before and ince again you told me in pm that you know deep down im right on the subject and have seemingly forgot it and slipped into old barry again.

Even in your latest protest anyone who said anything against Tan was not welcome. It wasnt a protest it was a show for the cameras.

Absolutely. If the club goes out of business I'll find another hobby. I'll always have good memories.

Again, you keep referring to this PM. I think you are right on the rebrand & not enough was done, but I feel that you saying that NOTHING was done is unfair to those of us who did try to get something done.

I've also told you about what I did personally, it wasn't much, but when you are in such a minority (as I was at the time) there's only so much you can do.

Regarding your thought on what the majority Cardiff fans SHOULD have done, we are in total agreement & I've told you that before.

Quite simply, the majority didn't agree with our thoughts at the time.

Last edited by Barry Chuckle on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Good point, nowhere near 2 seasons ago. it was one seson and 4/5ths ago. that makes it all ok then.

There is 5 games left. Then it is 2 full seasons.

Lets not bore people with pedantic. The protests have been non existent and even when they materialised people were banned from saying they wanted Tan out as to not rock the Premiership dinner ticket they are enjoying under a disguise of "nothing we can do".

Removing petty and tan are massively at different ends of the scale.

Why?

No it was wasn't worth it and by god it has been the worst experience of my life! As for you saying why couldn't we see what most non city fans could I think it's easier for an outsider to see what's going on than ye insiders in my opinion.

As for a new set of players I agree with the debt we gonna be in we need to ship players like caulker, Medel, fabio cause no doubt their wages are through the roof. I would say get rid of Bellamy to but I think he retire this season. Based on ole signings this season I can't see him signing decent championship players.

As for the chairman and owner I really hope from the bottom of my heart they just get up and go next season. They must know their the reason the club is like it is and the way the fans are turning on players is their fault aswell.

But all us Cardiff fans can do is keep as much faith as we got left and pray that out club can get back to the way we were.

No need to hope, just invoke change.

The club belongs to the fans, maybe not by law but certainly by unwritten law. As the "customers", you call the shots. People just don't realise it or indeed do realise it - but give up their right to, in order to have plausible deniability to get on the crazy roller coaster at the clubs expense, citing "there is nothing we can do".

And how exactly do we achieve that, as you make it sound so Easy?

Honestly mate, you sit there on your high horse like your the ultimate knowledge. Looking in from the outside and judging a whole fan base like your better than every single one of us.
Like you said were a small club, we've got a small hardcore following but the majority of our fans are pretty passive and I guess you could say typical modern fans so to ask us to just 'take control of our club's like it's a peace of cake and asif he majority of clubs around the UK would have done more about it, is just idiotic. You've massively contradicted yourself and I don't know who the f**k you are or who you support but your clearly living in a world where hindsight makes you knowledgeable and your obviously a much, much more loyal and hardcore fan than any of us or couldn't possibly have the audacity to make claims like you have. Another keyboard warrior know it all, jog on....

After the cringe worthy kit and badge, a season in the Prem` was almost worth it, a childhood dream for filled, I can now say I`ve watched my club in every division. As for potential, we`ve got it in bundles, if our home games weren`t a closed shop with Tan`s "gold membership" scheme, we`d sell out every match in the top flight even after the imminent expansion you often have a dig at. And as for getting rid of Tony Petty it only meant clearing a debt of about Million, while as Tan has loans owed to him by the club of close to £100 million if you believe some estimates, can you honestly compare these guys? As someone else mentioned football comes in cycles and it wont be the first time Swansea will be a superior division to Cardiff but do you think I honestly lose any sleep over that? Swansea could spiral down the leagues just like they did under Toshack at any stage, so enjoy your moment in the sun, i think you`ve peaked and a long winter could be upon your lot before you know it.

Honestly mate, you sit there on your high horse like your the ultimate knowledge. Looking in from the outside and judging a whole fan base like your better than every single one of us.
Like you said were a small club, we've got a small hardcore following but the majority of our fans are pretty passive and I guess you could say typical modern fans so to ask us to just 'take control of our club's like it's a peace of cake and asif he majority of clubs around the UK would have done more about it, is just idiotic. You've massively contradicted yourself and I don't know who the f**k you are or who you support but your clearly living in a world where hindsight makes you knowledgeable and your obviously a much, much more loyal and hardcore fan than any of us or couldn't possibly have the audacity to make claims like you have. Another keyboard warrior know it all, jog on....

Well just to pick up on two things before I get onto the "meat" of your post...

1) "Hindsight"? Surely it is a well known fact that I was here telling you all AT THE TIME? In fact I was repeatedly banned as a result.

2) "keyboard warrior"? Im one of the most passive posters you could wish to meet, or is having an unpopukar but iltimately correct opinion now classed as a keyboard warrior?

Anyway.... I completely think no other club would have allowed it to happen. Not a chance. Can you imagine him taking over liverpool, changing their kit to green and taking their liverbird away and replacing it with a dragon? There would be uproar, promise of cash or not.

The cardiff fan has a mentality unique to Cardiff, there is a feeling of not wanting to be big, but needing to be big. Anyone that meets that delusion gets given the keys to the club and often the club is put way down the pecking order as a result.

As for what can you do? Get Tan out. He has told you himself how to do it and not once have we seen it.

Your fans asked for this, now have the guts to do something about it or im not sure you have the right to complain.

After the cringe worthy kit and badge, a season in the Prem` was almost worth it, a childhood dream for filled, I can now say I`ve watched my club in every division. As for potential, we`ve got it in bundles, if our home games weren`t a closed shop with Tan`s "gold membership" scheme, we`d sell out every match in the top flight even after the imminent expansion you often have a dig at. And as for getting rid of Tony Petty it only meant clearing a debt of about Million, while as Tan has loans owed to him by the club of close to £100 million if you believe some estimates, can you honestly compare these guys? As someone else mentioned football comes in cycles and it wont be the first time Swansea will be a superior division to Cardiff but do you think I honestly lose any sleep over that? Swansea could spiral down the leagues just like they did under Toshack at any stage, so enjoy your moment in the sun, i think you`ve peaked and a long winter could be upon your lot before you know it.

You absolutely can compare, it is all relative. In fact, the Petty situation was financially worse as we had no assets to cover the debt.

Cardiff have £20m parachute money for next season, £7m season ticket money, £30m worth of players, he has £15m of shares and that is the amount he is owed according to him.

The fact is, while Tan is here and his loans are here you still may have the odd forray in the Prem regardless of the damage it is doing to the club, and to most fans - thats ok as it allows you a platform to continue the charade of "we are huge", the fact it may ulyimately kill the club is by the by.

I have seen posters who do make wild claims of we can be bigger than the likes of everton if that is their honest belief i won't knock it but i also wouldn't agree with it. There has been around 24000 home fans going into the ground this season and you base all your accusations on a couple of fantasists on a forum. Not everyone thinks were huge. football fans everywhere get carried away thinking their team is better than they actually are and your probably one of the worst do we say your unique in that. It's clear that the one thing you can't claim superiority over us at this moment is the amount of fans who follow the club's. You will say it doesn't bother you our ground is small but always full. It really hurts you and it shows in your posts. We're not huge just bigger than you. I cannot see what the fuss about it

I have seen posters who do make wild claims of we can be bigger than the likes of everton if that is their honest belief i won't knock it but i also wouldn't agree with it.

im not referring to these but they certainly come under that bracket.

There has been around 24000 home fans going into the ground this season and you base all your accusations on a couple of
fantasists on a forum.

how do you know what I base my thoughts on? My experience of living in Cardiff, this forum, the other forum and the many many fans ive met over the years ALL have this behaviour/delusion.

Not everyone thinks were huge. football fans everywhere get carried away thinking their team is better than they actually are and your probably one of the worst do we say your unique in that.

in what way do I think we are better than we are? Examples?

It's clear that the one thing you can't claim superiority over us at this moment is the amount of fans who follow the club's. You will say it doesn't bother you our ground is small but always full. It really hurts you and it shows in your posts. We're not huge just bigger than you. I cannot see what the fuss about it

im not sure if you genuinely believe that or have lashed out in anger, ill take it on face value and assume you are serious.

I couldnt give two hoots how many fans watch us at the ground, im not entirely sure what it matters to be honest. I couldnt give a monkeys chuff if there were 5 fans at each game. This is the exact thing im talking about - "attendances", i dont think any other club goes on about attendances more than your lot. It is bravado and a need to be seen as something big.

As it goes I dont think you are bigger than us but im more than happy to concede it as it really doesnt bother me and the debate will be tedious I can assure you

I have seen posters who do make wild claims of we can be bigger than the likes of everton if that is their honest belief i won't knock it but i also wouldn't agree with it.

im not referring to these but they certainly come under that bracket.

There has been around 24000 home fans going into the ground this season and you base all your accusations on a couple of
fantasists on a forum.

how do you know what I base my thoughts on? My experience of living in Cardiff, this forum, the other forum and the many many fans ive met over the years ALL have this behaviour/delusion.

Not everyone thinks were huge. football fans everywhere get carried away thinking their team is better than they actually are and your probably one of the worst do we say your unique in that.

in what way do I think we are better than we are? Examples?

It's clear that the one thing you can't claim superiority over us at this moment is the amount of fans who follow the club's. You will say it doesn't bother you our ground is small but always full. It really hurts you and it shows in your posts. We're not huge just bigger than you. I cannot see what the fuss about it

im not sure if you genuinely believe that or have lashed out in anger, ill take it on face value and assume you are serious.

I couldnt give two hoots how many fans watch us at the ground, im not entirely sure what it matters to be honest. I couldnt give a monkeys chuff if there were 5 fans at each game. This is the exact thing im talking about - "attendances", i dont think any other club goes on about attendances more than your lot. It is bravado and a need to be seen as something big.

As it goes I dont think you are bigger than us but im more than happy to concede it as it really doesnt bother me and the debate will be tedious I can assure you

All I can say is if every Cardiff fan you've met is obsessed with this big club mentality you have either been very unlucky because there are many who know our standing or your telling fibs. The latter I think is true.I know lots of jacks there are many who are fantasists and the majority are level headed and realistic and i think this is the same for most fan bases. Cardiff included. You say you don't care about the attendances but you are all over threads about expansion attendances and away support and every time you become more sniping and it smells of envy. I always respect your opinion on football matters and the business side even if I don't agree with you. When it comes to attendances big club stuff you become blinkered and say we're obsessed. I can guarantee that if the time comes when your attendances become bigger or even your council ground has a bigger capacity you will be crowing about it as well. So to say you don't give two hoots and don't know why it matters is bull shit it hurts you. If it didn't you wouldn't regurgitate the same old stuff.

All I can say is if every Cardiff fan you've met is obsessed with this big club mentality you have either been very unlucky because there are many who know our standing or your telling fibs. The latter I think is true.

absolutely not, you dont have to look far to see a conversation about attendances, big club, biggest in wales etc etc on here. Id wager a higher ratio than any other messageboard in the UK.

I know lots of jacks there are many who are fantasists and the majority are level headed and realistic and i think this is the same for most fan bases. Cardiff included. You say you don't care about the attendances but you are all over threads about expansion attendances and away support and every time you become more sniping and it smells of envy.

im a businessman, im interested in the business behind it. The only times i enter attendance debates is to say how ridiculous it is what is there to be jealous of?

If I go to see a film on Saturday with 50 people in auditorium, would I be jealous of one down the road that had 100 in it or wouldnt it make a difference?

I always respect your opinion on football matters and the business side even if I don't agree with you. When it comes to attendances big club stuff you become blinkered and say we're obsessed. I can guarantee that if the time comes when your attendances become bigger or even your council ground has a bigger capacity you will be crowing about it as well. So to say you don't give two hoots and don't know why it matters is bull shit it hurts you. If it didn't you wouldn't regurgitate the same old stuff.

and I can categorically tell you that I wont. Again why would I care? And why the hell would it hurt me? do you think it hurts Liverpool that Newcastle have more people in their ground? Oh the pain.

The OP is spot on.

I don't get why this has turned into a Cardiff v Swansea thread? But at the end of the day, it kills me to say it but I think every Cardiff fan envy Swansea at this moment in time;

Local owner who cares about the club and not just success
Partly fan owned so fans get a say
Stable club with policies with wages and signings of players

Their steadiness like the OP says about realising where you are and working within your means can provide success, and them lot down west have proved that. Yes they may come down in a season or so but I bet they've loved every minute being in the prem and with us I bet most Cardiff fans have hated it. Its basically been a circus travelling round the country every other week with the football being a small part to the circus and Tan himself taking centre stage.

Being a football fan isnt all about winning and the glam of big stadiums and sky sports,
its about being apart of a club and having a sense of belonging to CCFC.
And that's what it boils down to.

When ever I say something that hits home it always gets brought round to Swansea and a smaller ground or some other irrelevant nonsense.

Glad you cut through the bullshit of the thread and got to the original point of it, and you are spot on.

This is a post laced with the aroma of coffee and strong smelling salts rather than a sharp tongue.

It is quite ironic that in a few shirt weeks you will be back in the same place where you guys allowed Tan to start this crazy path of rebranding and wild spending. You will still be clad in red, your fan base will still be split, your debts will have tripled and your attendances shrunk (judging by renewals of only 12,000).

So was it worth it? Surely the answer to that is no. But why couldnt you see what most other non city fans saw?

I think this is down to a fans attitude unique to your club. There is an insatiable appetite to be seen as a big club, best team in wales etc etc and this attitude and kudos craving has seen you mortgage your club and herritage on a whim for short term glamour.

You need a complete overhaul. Players, chairman, fans outlook, club ethos - everything needs to change. First of all this "big club" bollocks that has been spouted for so long needs to go as it is your main weakness. As soon as someone comes in and panders to that then you are sold and will give them the keys to the club (see Hammam, Riddler and Tan for details). Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.... Fool me three times and questions really need to be asked about your sanity.

You need to be comfotable in your own skin. A modest club from south wales with a small hardcore following and a largely irrelevant past in terms of footballing pedigree. This may be hard for many to accept but its true, and this pretence and desire to be something else is killing your club from within.

You need to build slowly, develop the club and live within your means - and then in turn grow within your means. This boom or bust gambling with money the club cannot afford is just nonsense and will get you nowhere. You need to be self sufficient and success needs to be steady and sustainable.

This is your opportunity for a turning point and a change - can you do it is the question.

Ill probably come in for abuse as usual but it will be interesting to bump this in a couple of seasons time. As CantonMagic and various incarnations of Roathie - again all I can say is ive tried to twll you whats what. You can lead the horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Good luck.

Hell Yeah!

The OP is spot on.

I don't get why this has turned into a Cardiff v Swansea thread? But at the end of the day, it kills me to say it but I think every Cardiff fan envy Swansea at this moment in time;

Local owner who cares about the club and not just success
Partly fan owned so fans get a say
Stable club with policies with wages and signings of players

Their steadiness like the OP says about realising where you are and working within your means can provide success, and them lot down west have proved that. Yes they may come down in a season or so but I bet they've loved every minute being in the prem and with us I bet most Cardiff fans have hated it. Its basically been a circus travelling round the country every other week with the football being a small part to the circus and Tan himself taking centre stage.

Being a football fan isnt all about winning and the glam of big stadiums and sky sports,
its about being apart of a club and having a sense of belonging to CCFC.
And that's what it boils down to.

The o.p was spot on with a lot of his comments . I would love our club to be run on a similar model as theirs. local businessmen and fans running a steady ship with a careful and thoughtful way of recruitment. Hardly any bad press compared to our p.r nightmare of a club. Their hardcore fans like ours wouldn't have believed they would get to the premiership let alone establish theirselves in the way they have when it started 20 odd years ago. Where this turned into a cardiff vs Swansea was when the same posters offer their holier than thou insight into what we should do and constantly say that cardiff fans are unique in having an opinion that were bigger than we actually are and the same posters write about that Swansea were always to good to go down like their man utd or something. Hypocritical.
Your right about it's not about winning and the big stadiums but every football fan dreams and hopes that one day it will happen and hopefully fans in the future will get that without the circus that we brought along in the nightmare we have endured.

The fact we havent gone down shows we are too good to go down though. We walked the walk.

True you were more confident than a lot of the hibernating posters but you are still not mathematically safe. You won't go down but too good,no way your down the bottom for a reason the same as why we looked doomed. Lose on the weekend and your boys could get twitchy.