FORGIVE ME FOR SPEAKING FREELY - outsider view

We will just have to agree to disagree, I see it as hypocrisy, you don't.

I've already created one anti rebrand group - I've told you this before. Held two public meetings, again - numbers were a big issue.

Yes, home games are majorly blue - but that doesn't mean people want Tan out. With respect, I actually go to games and speak to many people about it & there are many who wear blue & want him to stay for a long time.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I see it as hypocrisy, you don't.

I've already created one anti rebrand group - I've told you this before. Held two public meetings, again - numbers were a big issue.

Yes, home games are majorly blue - but that doesn't mean people want Tan out. With respect, I actually go to games and speak to many people about it & there are many who wear blue & want him to stay for a long time.

Wanting blue and wanting Tan is like wanting the KKK and wanting no racism. Its illogical and stupid.

I don't disagree with you James, but there's people out there who do it and think it. Members on here, for an example.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I see it as hypocrisy, you don't.

I've already created one anti rebrand group - I've told you this before. Held two public meetings, again - numbers were a big issue.

Yes, home games are majorly blue - but that doesn't mean people want Tan out. With respect, I actually go to games and speak to many people about it & there are many who wear blue & want him to stay for a long time.

I would always agree to disagree when opinions collide, however there is no two opinions here. There is simply fact, you are just choosing to ignore it. Thats just silly.

Yes you have done more than most, but nowhere near enough. I haven't seen this group you set up get advertised here or some actual direction as to what you are doing, can you link me to a thread?

If you feel this strongly then you should be drumming up all the support you can mister with the help of Annis who also feels the same and carries some clout and go from there. Every game is your stage, yet you sit, clap and cheer tans creation.

You have 5,000 die hard blues and probably a couple of thousand that are against the way the club is run who arent among the hardcore. There are thousands upon thousands of people who would join im sure. However you arent giving them a chance to.

Chairing meetings does naff all. You all need to club together pre match and carry it into the stadium, ignore the likes of Gwyn

Any suggestion of protest during the games is often shouted down & even worse, the stories of alleged threats at meetings should anyone protest during the game...

There have been protests before games, protests after games, marches, petitions, public meetings, radio debates..

The notion that Cardiff fans have done "nothing" isn't quite true, but the fact that there are low numbers who feel strong enough to do something, means ideas are limited..

Meetings were held even before Bluebirds Unite came to be. They were advertised on here, on the radio, Wales online, twitter, CCMB... Numbers were still poor.

Last edited by Barry Chuckle on Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I see it as hypocrisy, you don't.

I've already created one anti rebrand group - I've told you this before. Held two public meetings, again - numbers were a big issue.

Yes, home games are majorly blue - but that doesn't mean people want Tan out. With respect, I actually go to games and speak to many people about it & there are many who wear blue & want him to stay for a long time.

Wanting blue and wanting Tan is like wanting the KKK and wanting no racism. Its illogical and stupid.

Ive often said its like anti Fur protesters wearing fur on Saturdays.

Completely senseless.

Any suggestion of protest during the games is often shouted down & even worse, the stories of alleged threats at meetings should anyone protest during the game...

There have been protests before games, protests after games, marches, petitions, public meetings, radio debates..

The notion that Cardiff fans have done "nothing" isn't quite true, but the fact that there are low numbers who feel strong enough to do something, means ideas are limited..

Its all been pretty wishy washy though hasn't it. Half hearted and often token gestures so one can say, "well I've done my bit" while then taking your seat and reading your programme.

Nobody has taken a real stance apart from BU and people ridiculed them, even yourself. When in fact you should all have clubbed together to do what was right. It seemed they were ridiculed by people wanting tan out themselves and then wait for them to do something wrong and then say "see I was right to not join" and then give up and accept the next nonsense Tan throws at you.

Yes, I had my reasons for doing so too.

If you're so keen to tell Cardiff fans what they should do and what they shouldn't do, why not offer some suggestions? All I've read is what you think we shouldn't have done...

Roathie, in all fairness, BU got mocked by the likes of me for not explicitly saying they wanted Tan Out. They wanted blue back but they wanted to educate him. He's not stupid, he's just a control freak. Thats why I found it funny. The guy knows what hes doing but doesn't care. He doesn't need educating, he needs removing.

I'd have supported a Tan Out campaign but BU were not that. They sat on the fence for months because going as extreme as Tan Out would have meant they had lost hundreds of supporters.

I still want Tan out and any Tan out campaign I shall back, but only a campaign willing to admit it wants Tan out and is true to itself.

Yes, I had my reasons for doing so too.

If you're so keen to tell Cardiff fans what they should do and what they shouldn't do, why not offer some suggestions? All I've read is what you think we shouldn't have done...

I did. I said you should all be boycotting at the time. You all called me a troll and that I was jealous of such an owner.

Ive now to.d you what to if you get relegated - which again is to boycott and hit him in the pocket and his pride which is important in Malaysian culture.

Ibe also told you that you should use your 90 min a week platform to make it clear to Tan your thoughts and demand what you feel os right.

You have done none of the above.

A nice little metaphor for your struggle with the issue discussed above though chucks.... I will give you a final benefit of the doubt chance that you just genuinely don't get it.

Two towns in Africa.

One is a town on the coast and the other in mainland desert. Two poor towns with a history of famine.

The inland desert town just came through a major famine by hunting the local animals and breeding them for longevity and is now thriving.

The one on the coast currently has a major lack of food. The desert town contact the town on the coast and say "fish for food, there is plenty". The town respond with "hypocrites, you didnt fish for food yet are telling us to?!"

The coast town starves.

Different scenarios, call for different actions. As long as you take actions that work and actively look for actions that work then you will find the solution. My criticism of you guys is that you aren't taking the clear path to what will work or actively looking for other solutions - just accepting it while moaning about it.

LMAO

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

thumbs up...........

ITS EVERY SWANSEA FANS DREAM TO BE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN WALES.....DUH

Agree, as if he's an outsider too!! He's so obsessed with us he's on here and knows more goings on than most of our fans.

Obsessed is not the word!!

Glad you agree.

However where do you think I have blame shifted? i wasnt even aware I was being blamed for anything

No, you aren't to blame for anything. I was referring to you saying its not Tan's fault, its the supporter's fault. Blame shifting. My own view is that it isn't the 'fault' of one individual or party, more a combination of factors.

A nice little metaphor for your struggle with the issue discussed above though chucks.... I will give you a final benefit of the doubt chance that you just genuinely don't get it.

Two towns in Africa.

One is a town on the coast and the other in mainland desert. Two poor towns with a history of famine.

The inland desert town just came through a major famine by hunting the local animals and breeding them for longevity and is now thriving.

The one on the coast currently has a major lack of food. The desert town contact the town on the coast and say "fish for food, there is plenty". The town respond with "hypocrites, you didnt fish for food yet are telling us to?!"

The coast town starves.

Different scenarios, call for different actions. As long as you take actions that work and actively look for actions that work then you will find the solution. My criticism of you guys is that you aren't taking the clear path to what will work or actively looking for other solutions - just accepting it while moaning about it.

Polo pretty much said this yesterday and the day before - our fan base has always been good at moaning and getting on the players backs etc - we never direct our frustrations at the real enemy, and in this case its Tan. Laughable. People are frustrated by the rebrand but are too scared to speak up against Tan so instead take their frustrations out on fellow fans and players like Whittingham who've served this club for a long time. They weren't slating Whittingham when we were winning or when he's controlled games this year in games we've won or games he's scored in. He's an easy go to and scapegoat for when things go bad and they cant blame Tan.

Glad you agree.

However where do you think I have blame shifted? i wasnt even aware I was being blamed for anything

No, you aren't to blame for anything. I was referring to you saying its not Tan's fault, its the supporter's fault. Blame shifting. My own view is that it isn't the 'fault' of one individual or party, more a combination of factors.

Thats not really shifting the blame. Thats just saying it as it is.

Tan is a businessman not a football fan. He will act in his own interests and he thinks changing to red will attract investors from China which will ease the financial burden on him. Its pretty smart if it works.

Tan has no obligation to the clubs traditions so he cant be held accountable.

The fans however asked for it to be done. He had already backed down on the rebrand remember. The fans then asked for him to continue - so he did.

How can anyone else be to blame? Clubs are handed down from generation to generation and it is the responsibility of the fans to keep it safe for the next generation - i feel this generation has failed in its duties and sold the family heirloom for some cash. The pawn broker cant be held accountable, its his job.

Glad you agree.

However where do you think I have blame shifted? i wasnt even aware I was being blamed for anything

No, you aren't to blame for anything. I was referring to you saying its not Tan's fault, its the supporter's fault. Blame shifting. My own view is that it isn't the 'fault' of one individual or party, more a combination of factors.

Thats not really shifting the blame. Thats just saying it as it is.

Tan is a businessman not a football fan. He will act in his own interests and he thinks changing to red will attract investors from China which will ease the financial burden on him. Its pretty smart if it works.

Tan has no obligation to the clubs traditions so he cant be held accountable.

The fans however asked for it to be done. He had already backed down on the rebrand remember. The fans then asked for him to continue - so he did.

How can anyone else be to blame? Clubs are handed down from generation to generation and it is the responsibility of the fans to keep it safe for the next generation - i feel this generation has failed in its duties and sold the family heirloom for some cash. The pawn broker cant be held accountable, its his job.

Now it just seems like you have an axe to grind and are determined to wind people up. You are not saying it like it is, you are giving your opinion. There is a distinct difference. Every club has investors in some capacity, not many of them have any previous affiliation with the club. Clubs also change their shirts and badge on a regular basis, usually just to modernise. A good example being the Southampton kit this season. From historically red and blue stripes to an Arsenal clone. Nobody seemed to mind.

Now it just seems like you have an axe to grind and are determined to wind people up. You are not saying it like it is, you are giving your opinion. There is a distinct difference. Every club has investors in some capacity, not many of them have any previous affiliation with the club. Clubs also change their shirts and badge on a regular basis, usually just to modernise. A good example being the Southampton kit this season. From historically red and blue stripes to an Arsenal clone. Nobody seemed to mind.

Axe to grind? Far from it, this is a stance ive maintained from the beginning. If people get wound up by it its because they know its true, ive said nothing offensive.

It isnt an opinion, it is a fact. Vincent Tan is not a Cardiff fan, ney scratch that, Vincent Tan is not a football fan. He has no obligation to keep the herritige of the club so he isnt to blame. Cardiff fans have a duty to maintain the heritage of their club and they have failed to do so.

If you dont mind the rebranding then thats fine, my point doesnt apply to you. My post is aimed at the fans that want their blue back and see the rebranding as something they dont want. If they dont want it then they must fight it - it really is that simple.

Now it just seems like you have an axe to grind and are determined to wind people up. You are not saying it like it is, you are giving your opinion. There is a distinct difference. Every club has investors in some capacity, not many of them have any previous affiliation with the club. Clubs also change their shirts and badge on a regular basis, usually just to modernise. A good example being the Southampton kit this season. From historically red and blue stripes to an Arsenal clone. Nobody seemed to mind.

Axe to grind? Far from it, this is a stance ive maintained from the beginning. If people get wound up by it its because they know its true, ive said nothing offensive.

It isnt an opinion, it is a fact. Vincent Tan is not a Cardiff fan, ney scratch that, Vincent Tan is not a football fan. He has no obligation to keep the herritige of the club so he isnt to blame. Cardiff fans have a duty to maintain the heritage of their club and they have failed to do so.

If you dont mind the rebranding then thats fine, my point doesnt apply to you. My post is aimed at the fans that want their blue back and see the rebranding as something they dont want. If they dont want it then they must fight it - it really is that simple.

I suggest you go and watch us play. You will see that majority of fans wear blue. The fans have done all they can under the circumstances.

Ive aknowledged that the majority wear blue. That isnt doing all you can though is it? My point is that merely sitting there with a blue top on doing the same as you have always done isnt going to achieve anything is it. Thats nothing.

Why dont all those that wear blue all non stop protest about the implementation of the red and demand the return of the blue? You have a platform - use it.

Ive aknowledged that the majority wear blue. That isnt doing all you can though is it? My point is that merely sitting there with a blue top on doing the same as you have always done isnt going to achieve anything is it. Thats nothing.

Why dont all those that wear blue all non stop protest about the implementation of the red and demand the return of the blue? You have a platform - use it.

We have had demonstrations and we have organisations doing their own thing.

Whatever we do guys like you will find something else to have a go.

LMAO

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

thumbs up...........

ITS EVERY SWANSEA FANS DREAM TO BE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN WALES.....DUH

Not a dream, mate, it's the reality. You just can't bring yourselves to admit it.

Bump.

Wonder if it will start to sink in soon.

I respect TLG for what he did and thats how he felt he was demonstrating, but there was never ever going to be enough TLG's walking away as the new type of fan(and I dont mean new fans, as we were all one once) and the glory hunter who wanted Premier Football at all costs, outnumbered the fans who care about our identity,pride and passion for our club by at least 5/1.

For every fan that would of walked this season, a red fan would of taken our seat.

So I and many others did our demonstrations by turning up in BLUE,singing BLUE songs,having meetings(7 in total) and going to the press/forums/fbs which has proved very successful as from a stadium which had become 80% red after the Brighton game its now 80% BLUE and away we are 99% BLUE and our fans have kept our identity well and truly alive. At the same time a lot of the fans who went red have now gone BLUE.

We put up with the bullying by some of the so called Red brigade and have shown, dignity, pride & passion will win in the end

For me Annis and I suspect many others, it was not just about the promise of Premiership football. If Tan had walked away, most feared that the club would collapse under the debt and financial burden. Just remember, that when Tan paid off HMRC we were moments away from the high court. It was obvious that all the Directors were unwilling to put any more money in. We were not financially viable, had no interest from other investors and in my opinion would have sold all players worth anything and dropped two divisions. No one wanted that and the rebrand was more palatable to that. Premiership football was delivered and a bonus. We now realise of course, the full horror of accepting that rebrand! The life and pride has been sucked out of the support. However, given the circumstances again, I would still have taken the Tan option as without his money the consequences are still unthinkable. I still also think that we will return to blue at some point with a new owner or with Tan

Good post.

Forgive me for speaking freely, in fact ive received bans for such like in the past, but I just read the "we need our club back" thread. Which I agree with, however after reading it, there was a lot of excuse making and blame shifting....

Lets not beat around the bush. It is not Tans fault. It is the supporters fault.

Tan is doing what he is supposed to do. He is a businessman to acting in his own best interests after being allowed to do it by you guys.

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

Nobody really cared at the time though, it was the chance you had all been waiting for to join Swansea in the Prem regardless of what sacrifices you had to make. People pretended it was for "financial security" but now dont even care that the debt has doubled.

There was nonsense surrounding it all "next superpowe of football", "champions league", "next chelsea", "massive side" etc etc you were all just as deluded as Tan was, who I think expected to become one of the big sides by pumping £50m on players and rebranding. He failed to realise football is not like any other business and he admitted nowing nothing about football - he has learned his lesson the hard way and in my opinion will be looking to get his cash back if relegated.

The problem is though, as football fans, you will never learn. I thought you learned from the Hammam era, then the Ridsdale era and im sure it will be the same once Tan goes. You have an insatiable apetite to be seen as bigger than what you are, which is why you have the mantra of "capital, potential, attendances" - anyone who stokes that ego and delusion with similar ego and delusion pretty much gets the keys to the club.

It is not the owner that needs to change, its the mentality of your fans.

Read carls post about VT went about consulting us and that's all I need to say. It was blackmail and if you think you'd take administration over a colour change then your deluded, thanks for your opinion but you clearly have no idea up there on your high horse

Its not "a colour change" though is it. It is a new identity.

I would take administration on the chin every single time over that.