Coventry Deduction

RM will you start taking stock of other posters statements you just might learn something.

RM will you start taking stock of other posters statements you just might learn something.

I assume this is aimed at me?

Of course, whose statement would you like me to look at?

How much did CCFC pay Cardiff Council for the land that the stadium and house of sport is on?

No idea but don't forget the Liberty is built on land presumably owned by Swansea council so wasn't that a gift also?

If the land was given to you as you just stated it was gifted. That is not a difficult concept.

Your council gave you free land to build a stadium, a house of sport (which you then sold unbuilt for several million to help pay debts), and a retail park. By your own admission, the only thing the council get out of this is business rates.

On the other hand, our council sell land for a retail park which brings in Business rates. The sale of this land funds the build of a community owned stadium for which the upkeep is paid for wholly by the two clubs that play there while they retain the value of the stadium in their accounts.

Yep, hypocrites.

As for the rent myth, it's just that.

Honestly mate talk about shifting facts around to make an arguement

At the end of the day both Swansea and Cardiff Councils made gifts of land so that sports grounds for both football and rugby could be built in their respective cities. The only difference is we CCFC PAID for our build whilst you left it to the local council tax payers.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp unless of course you are trying desperately to change history.

Does beg the question that if Coventry City Council, as landlords, are prepared to take their local football club to the High Court for non payment of rent then why as Swansea City Council doing nothing about the squatters in the Liberty Stadium.

Has to be the quote of the year Absolute classic.

On a serious note it is a real shame that another CCFC might go bust (Chester City being the other). It just goes to show that bills have to be paid or heritage and history can be wiped out by winding up courts and not just a change in playing kit colour.

Hopefully for Coventry fans they will bounce back as did other ex-Premiership clubs such as Manchester City, Southampton and Norwich who all had a fling with League One before returning to the Premiership.

All with their identity and heritage intact.

Well Southampton did have a spell in administration if you want to call that heritage.

Does beg the question that if Coventry City Council, as landlords, are prepared to take their local football club to the High Court for non payment of rent then why as Swansea City Council doing nothing about the squatters in the Liberty Stadium.

Has to be the quote of the year Absolute classic.

On a serious note it is a real shame that another CCFC might go bust (Chester City being the other). It just goes to show that bills have to be paid or heritage and history can be wiped out by winding up courts and not just a change in playing kit colour.

Hopefully for Coventry fans they will bounce back as did other ex-Premiership clubs such as Manchester City, Southampton and Norwich who all had a fling with League One before returning to the Premiership.

All with their identity and heritage intact.

Well Southampton did have a spell in administration if you want to call that heritage.

It would not bother me.

How much did CCFC pay Cardiff Council for the land that the stadium and house of sport is on?

No idea but don't forget the Liberty is built on land presumably owned by Swansea council so wasn't that a gift also?

How can something we don't own be a gift? The fact is you were gifted land by the council some of which you then sold on for a few £m without even having done anything with it.

If the land was given to you as you just stated it was gifted. That is not a difficult concept.

Your council gave you free land to build a stadium, a house of sport (which you then sold unbuilt for several million to help pay debts), and a retail park. By your own admission, the only thing the council get out of this is business rates.

On the other hand, our council sell land for a retail park which brings in Business rates. The sale of this land funds the build of a community owned stadium for which the upkeep is paid for wholly by the two clubs that play there while they retain the value of the stadium in their accounts.

Yep, hypocrites.

As for the rent myth, it's just that.

Honestly mate talk about shifting facts around to make an arguement

At the end of the day both Swansea and Cardiff Councils made gifts of land so that sports grounds for both football and rugby could be built in their respective cities. The only difference is we CCFC PAID for our build whilst you left it to the local council tax payers.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp unless of course you are trying desperately to change history.

I am merely pointing the the hypocrisy of Cardiff fans claiming that we were done a favour by the Council. Swansea Council still own the land and the stadium and it shows as an asset on the council balance sheet and it was funded partly by football trust grants obtained by the football club and the rest by the sale of the retail park adjoining, not by the council tax payer.

Cardiff Council however gave the valuable land away to a private company (CCFC) who then went on to sell a section of it for a few £m.

I'm sure every company out there would love that deal.

You didn't answer my question about how much CCFC paid Cardiff Council for the land the stadium and the house of sport is on.

No idea.

Convenient.

The point being you sit there and criticise us for having a good relationship with the council despite the fact we pay everything we are obliged to, while Cardiff Council gifted you land that was worth many millions of pounds (as proven by the sale of the land for the House of Sport), to the detriment of the Cardiff Council tax payer.

Hypocrisy to say the least.

It seems Bakedalasker has decided to bow out at this point

The land was originally owned by Ccfc and was sold by Clemo to the council for 50 k in late 80s. It was a ridiculous amount as the site was hundreds of acres and worth far more even then. The council then built an athletics track and astro turf pitches and got all car parking money from the club. Completely irrelvant

The club paid a nominal fee to get it back and the club had to pay several million to improve the road system in the area. The city of Cardiff has benefitted from the CCS with the huge number of jobs on the retail park and also the amount of people it brings to the city. The liberty has only been if benefit to Swansea since they got into premier league. Huge number of jobs on our retail park as well, all achieved without gifting land to a private company and kept as an asset on the councils balance sheet

One day swanseas financial immorrals of the past will come back and bite them on the arse. What goes around and all that....For a club around £100m in debt and with a wage bill alone costing more than income, it's probably best not to talk about other clubs financial immorals.

If the land was given to you as you just stated it was gifted. That is not a difficult concept.

Your council gave you free land to build a stadium, a house of sport (which you then sold unbuilt for several million to help pay debts), and a retail park. By your own admission, the only thing the council get out of this is business rates.

On the other hand, our council sell land for a retail park which brings in Business rates. The sale of this land funds the build of a community owned stadium for which the upkeep is paid for wholly by the two clubs that play there while they retain the value of the stadium in their accounts.

Yep, hypocrites.

As for the rent myth, it's just that.

Honestly mate talk about shifting facts around to make an arguement

At the end of the day both Swansea and Cardiff Councils made gifts of land so that sports grounds for both football and rugby could be built in their respective cities. The only difference is we CCFC PAID for our build whilst you left it to the local council tax payers.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp unless of course you are trying desperately to change history.

I am merely pointing the the hypocrisy of Cardiff fans claiming that we were done a favour by the Council. Swansea Council still own the land and the stadium and it shows as an asset on the council balance sheet and it was funded partly by football trust grants obtained by the football club and the rest by the sale of the retail park adjoining, not by the council tax payer.

Cardiff Council however gave the valuable land away to a private company (CCFC) who then went on to sell a section of it for a few £m.

I'm sure every company out there would love that deal.

But Cardiff Council didn't have to fork out for the stadium build that is the point. The Liberty might be an asset on the Swansea Council balance sheet but I think the council tax payers of Cardiff (& for that matter Swansea) would prefer not to spend £58m to build a non-income generating 'asset'

If the land was given to you as you just stated it was gifted. That is not a difficult concept.

Your council gave you free land to build a stadium, a house of sport (which you then sold unbuilt for several million to help pay debts), and a retail park. By your own admission, the only thing the council get out of this is business rates.

On the other hand, our council sell land for a retail park which brings in Business rates. The sale of this land funds the build of a community owned stadium for which the upkeep is paid for wholly by the two clubs that play there while they retain the value of the stadium in their accounts.

Yep, hypocrites.

As for the rent myth, it's just that.

Honestly mate talk about shifting facts around to make an arguement

At the end of the day both Swansea and Cardiff Councils made gifts of land so that sports grounds for both football and rugby could be built in their respective cities. The only difference is we CCFC PAID for our build whilst you left it to the local council tax payers.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp unless of course you are trying desperately to change history.

I am merely pointing the the hypocrisy of Cardiff fans claiming that we were done a favour by the Council. Swansea Council still own the land and the stadium and it shows as an asset on the council balance sheet and it was funded partly by football trust grants obtained by the football club and the rest by the sale of the retail park adjoining, not by the council tax payer.

Cardiff Council however gave the valuable land away to a private company (CCFC) who then went on to sell a section of it for a few £m.

I'm sure every company out there would love that deal.

But Cardiff Council didn't have to fork out for the stadium build that is the point. The Liberty might be an asset on the Swansea Council balance sheet but I think the council tax payers of Cardiff (& for that matter Swansea) would prefer not to spend £58m to build a non-income generating 'asset'

As I stated previously, the tax payer didn't pay for it. It was funded by football trust grants and the sale of land for the retail park.

How much did CCFC pay Cardiff Council for the land that the stadium and house of sport is on?

No idea but don't forget the Liberty is built on land presumably owned by Swansea council so wasn't that a gift also?

How can something we don't own be a gift? The fact is you were gifted land by the council some of which you then sold on for a few £m without even having done anything with it.

Fair enough I used the wrong phrase. What I should have said was Swansea City is benefiting from council land in just the same way as we did.

After all the land on which the Liberty is built could have been sold off to build more retail space rather than a sports ground. That would be far more valuable to the Swansea council tax payers than a non-income generating football ground.

The involvement of a private company is in your words irrelevant.

As I stated previously, the tax payer didn't pay for it. It was funded by football trust grants and the sale of land for the retail park.

Oh so it’s OK for you to sell land for a football stadium but not us? We are back to hypocrisy I think

How much did CCFC pay Cardiff Council for the land that the stadium and house of sport is on?

No idea but don't forget the Liberty is built on land presumably owned by Swansea council so wasn't that a gift also?

How can something we don't own be a gift? The fact is you were gifted land by the council some of which you then sold on for a few £m without even having done anything with it.

Fair enough I used the wrong phrase. What I should have said was Swansea City is benefiting from council land in just the same way as we did.

After all the land on which the Liberty is built could have been sold off to build more retail space rather than a sports ground. That would be far more valuable to the Swansea council tax payers than a non-income generating football ground.

The involvement of a private company is in your words irrelevant.

Indeed it could have been, but part of the agreement was that we gave up our long term lease on the Vetch to the Council giving them that land back.

The bottom line is you were gifted land which is now on your balance sheet and land which you later sold for several million pounds which paid a tax bill.

Whereas our council built a stadium at no cost to the tax payer which is used by both us and the Ospreys and retains all profit made by all other events at the stadium such as concerts, seminars, banqueting etc.

And you lot have a go at us about it

As I stated previously, the tax payer didn't pay for it. It was funded by football trust grants and the sale of land for the retail park.

Oh so it’s OK for you to sell land for a football stadium but not us? We are back to hypocrisy I think

Err, the council sold the land not us

Indeed it could have been, but part of the agreement was that we gave up our long term lease on the Vetch to the Council giving them that land back.

The bottom line is you were gifted land which is now on your balance sheet and land which you later sold for several million pounds which paid a tax bill.

Whereas our council built a stadium at no cost to the tax payer which is used by both us and the Ospreys and retains all profit made by all other events at the stadium such as concerts, seminars, banqueting etc.

And you lot have a go at us about it

So Swansea Council taxpayers were given the Vetch in return for the Liberty land and Retail Park and that makes it all OK? TBH I think that is a case for the Tax Payers Alliance to take up because it doesn't half sound like a shit deal.

You are totally wrong about what happened with the land on which CCS was built. Just like the Liberty part of the land put aside for the stadium project was sold and proceeds used to build CCS. The shortfall funding was made up by CCFC and that's why the stadium is now owned by Cardiff City FC.

Swansea it appears couldn't afford any shortfall funding and so the Council Tax Payers of Swansea have in affect subsidised the Liberty ever since.

That's why we slag you off

As I stated previously, the tax payer didn't pay for it. It was funded by football trust grants and the sale of land for the retail park.

Oh so it’s OK for you to sell land for a football stadium but not us? We are back to hypocrisy I think

Err, the council sold the land not us

Now you are splitting hairs to make up a quite crap argument.

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

Well in Swansea's case it would be rent arrears and usually the council evict you for that

Indeed it could have been, but part of the agreement was that we gave up our long term lease on the Vetch to the Council giving them that land back.

The bottom line is you were gifted land which is now on your balance sheet and land which you later sold for several million pounds which paid a tax bill.

Whereas our council built a stadium at no cost to the tax payer which is used by both us and the Ospreys and retains all profit made by all other events at the stadium such as concerts, seminars, banqueting etc.

And you lot have a go at us about it

So Swansea Council taxpayers were given the Vetch in return for the Liberty land and Retail Park and that makes it all OK? TBH I think that is a case for the Tax Payers Alliance to take up because it doesn't half sound like a shit deal.

You are totally wrong about what happened with the land on which CCS was built. Just like the Liberty part of the land put aside for the stadium project was sold and proceeds used to build CCS. The shortfall funding was made up by CCFC and that's why the stadium is now owned by Cardiff City FC.

Swansea it appears couldn't afford any shortfall funding and so the Council Tax Payers of Swansea have in affect subsidised the Liberty ever since.

That's why we slag you off

How could they be given the Vetch in return for the Liberty land when they also still own the Liberty land? How can that be "in return for"? You seem to be having difficulty understanding.

So you're now saying that the majority of the cost of the build of CCS was paid for by Cardiff Council but because there was a slight shortfall which CCFC paid, they gave you the stadium? I

Please explain how Swansea council tax payers have subsidised the Liberty Stadium when it is run by a management company that if there is any shortfall in funding, the two sports clubs have to pay. The council don't put a penny in.

As I stated previously, the tax payer didn't pay for it. It was funded by football trust grants and the sale of land for the retail park.

Oh so it’s OK for you to sell land for a football stadium but not us? We are back to hypocrisy I think

Err, the council sold the land not us

Now you are splitting hairs to make up a quite crap argument.

Yes, council selling their own land and council gifting land to a company who then sell it to pay is tax bill is really splitting hairs.

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

Well in Swansea's case it would be rent arrears and usually the council evict you for that

As I've also said numerous times, we pay everything we are contractually obliged to pay into the Stadium management company. Last year we paid £590,000.

Coventry have been deducted 10 points by the football league this afternoon!

I work in Coventry and they have taken a lot of pleasure taking the piss out me over the years, however although I feel abit for them, they are ne different to any one else so tough

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

Well in Swansea's case it would be rent arrears and usually the council evict you for that

Wrong Tony in the case of Swansea City Council they write the debt off, and that amounted to £2.37m of public funds. The mortgage was coming under scrutiny from the auditors so to remove the "scrutiny" the Council wrote the money off.

The £2.37m was spent on fitting out the hospitality areas of the Liberty Stadium and other vital items like the signage on the Stadium Superstore, a 3 Phase electricty supply to the ice making machine in the home dressing room and office furniture for the football / rugby clubs staff.

The Council never received a single penny in return for the £2.37m mortgage but SCFC have received between £600k and £1.2m per season for "Income" received from the hospitality areas.


Interestingly as the Liberty Stadium has never paid rates either, not even for the stadium superstore where all receipts go directly to the sporting clubs.


I could go on but I think the point is made and it's long overdue that the authorities deal with the squatters down there.

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

Well in Swansea's case it would be rent arrears and usually the council evict you for that

Wrong Tony in the case of Swansea City Council they write the debt off, and that amounted to £2.37m of public funds. The mortgage was coming under scrutiny from the auditors so to remove the "scrutiny" the Council wrote the money off.

The £2.37m was spent on fitting out the hospitality areas of the Liberty Stadium and other vital items like the signage on the Stadium Superstore, a 3 Phase electricty supply to the ice making machine in the home dressing room and office furniture for the football / rugby clubs staff.

The Council never received a single penny in return for the £2.37m mortgage but SCFC have received between £600k and £1.2m per season for "Income" received from the hospitality areas.


Interestingly as the Liberty Stadium has never paid rates either, not even for the stadium superstore where all receipts go directly to the sporting clubs.


I could go on but I think the point is made and it's long overdue that the authorities deal with the squatters down there.

So if you were had an agreement to rent a house that was supposed to be fully furnished but turned out not to be, would you expect to have to pay for the furnishings? No.

Cardiff Council basically paid your tax bill by gifting you land for the House of Sport that you then sold on.

If the authorities want something to look at, it's that.

This thread is very surreal.

"Sad to see" " should never happen" etc etc etc

Most of you are backing a regime that is paying 120% of our yearly income on wages alone. Willing and celebrating signings like frazier campbell who is paid 30k plus over 3 and a half years when we cannot afford to pay our current wage bill without loans. We are £100m in debt and will be amongst the favourites for relegation next year.

As mentioned in this thread, relegation from the prem carrying such debts is catosprophic yet people seem completely oblivious to make that link with their own club..... Us. We are ENTERING the Prem carrying these debts over our head already! Not only that but player contracts spanning longer than if we were relegated meaning our wage bill would not decrease if relegation happened.

We have 22,000 gates which is small in comparison to the outgoings we have.

The amount of people saying Coventrys plight is "sad to see" yet are backing the regime currently doing the same thing to our club is unfathomable in terms of pure hypocrisy and stupidity.

In true Jack fashion highlighting the negatives of Cardiff.

And what happens if the debt is turned to equity?

The prem money will cover the wages!

And there are the other income streams in Tans vision.

Bringing all that into the equation and your statements are nullified.

Nothing to do with negativity, it's reality. We have £100m debt, this is fact. We are at around 120% of wage expenditure in relation to yearly income, this is fact. We need loans just to cover wages let alone other costs like transfer fees and day to day running of the club.

Yes if the debt is turned to equity then this won't be an issue, but the fact is it makes no sense to do so and has showed no sign of doing so. Until that happens we can only deal with whats in front of us.

So the fact of the matter is, those who say whats happened at Coventry is terrible and continuing to back what Tan is doing are ignorant in the extreme regarding the clubs welfare at this point.

Burying your head under "tans vision" is akin to a Christian responding with "god works in mysterious ways" when faced with an awkward question.... It doesn't wash.

Jack or not, this guy has a point. Why the f**k would Tan convert (or write off) £100m of his money on a club he has no affinity with?

He's taking us all for a ride, as soon as he gets his hands on the Premier money he'll be off with his red shirt tucked in his trousers quicker than you can say 'administration'

The plight of Coventry will be nothing in comparison

What do you call it when you fail to make repayments on a mortgage.

Well in Swansea's case it would be rent arrears and usually the council evict you for that

Wrong Tony in the case of Swansea City Council they write the debt off, and that amounted to £2.37m of public funds. The mortgage was coming under scrutiny from the auditors so to remove the "scrutiny" the Council wrote the money off.

The £2.37m was spent on fitting out the hospitality areas of the Liberty Stadium and other vital items like the signage on the Stadium Superstore, a 3 Phase electricty supply to the ice making machine in the home dressing room and office furniture for the football / rugby clubs staff.

The Council never received a single penny in return for the £2.37m mortgage but SCFC have received between £600k and £1.2m per season for "Income" received from the hospitality areas.


Interestingly as the Liberty Stadium has never paid rates either, not even for the stadium superstore where all receipts go directly to the sporting clubs.


I could go on but I think the point is made and it's long overdue that the authorities deal with the squatters down there.

So if you were had an agreement to rent a house that was supposed to be fully furnished but turned out not to be, would you expect to have to pay for the furnishings? No.

Cardiff Council basically paid your tax bill by gifting you land for the House of Sport that you then sold on.

If the authorities want something to look at, it's that.

Deafening silence.

FAO NJ73
Cardiff were given the land where new stadium sits as land could only be used for retail or leisure in return Cardiff give the land that Ninian Park stood on to the council who then sold to a housing developer as the area where housing now is was valuable the council accualy benifited out of this. Secondly Cardiff City Football Club paid for the highways ti be upgraded and the development of new athletics stadium so i fail to see your point?