gambling addiction

frankly I don't know how paulh could read that as polo being blase?!?

.

He should go to Specsavers, especially after reading his views on darts and football

fair play I thought you were pretty frank there, your story about the shoplifting just shows how it basically sends you round the twist and the only way to deal with that kind of thing is with similarly crazy countermeasures.... like cutting up your cards or freezing them in a block of ice.

either way, good luck bro.

I think he's saying the gambling addict can't bet on anything at all, much like the alcoholic can't drink again. A fair point.

Yes I know what hes trying to say but I dont need to hear it from some wally who has read the theory but hasnt lived the reality. Hes like a social worker with no kids trying to tell a parent what makes a good parent.
I have already tried giving up completely it would just build up til ive had a shit day then go and spunk loads on the machines.

I gambled enjoyably and sensibly for years before the FOBTs and have started to do so again and if betting small stakes on the football (and winning more than I lose albeit tiny stakes compared to what I lost on the machines) helps me stop losing the plot and going buck wild on the machines then so be it. Its like losing the battle to win the war.

I know they say in theory you cant do that but as Paul has already contradicted himself different addictions effect people in different ways.

I also know my way isnt for everyone but its abut me personally, no one else, they can sort their own problems out.

Last edited by Mario Polotelli on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

frankly I don't know how paulh could read that as polo being blase?!?

.

He should go to Specsavers, especially after reading his views on darts and football

What, that winstanley is a good player? pretty obvious really.


The more i think about it polo, the more i think your just a desperare attention seeker not just with your poor grasp of what constitutes an addiction, but your one dimensional veiws on.... well everything really

Not always seen eye to eye with Polo, but agree totally with him in this. It can be devastating, more so than drug addictions in many ways.

It can tear families apart and I sincerely with him all the best on his journey to recovery.

I think he's saying the gambling addict can't bet on anything at all, much like the alcoholic can't drink again. A fair point.

Yes I know what hes trying to say but I dont need to hear it from some wally who has read the theory but hasnt lived the reality. Hes like a social worker with no kids trying to tell a parent what makes a good parent.
I have already tried giving up completely it would just build up til ive had a shit day then go and spunk loads on the machines.

I gambled enjoyably and sensibly for years before the FOBTs and have started to do so again and if betting small stakes on the football (and winning more than I lose albeit tiny stakes compared to what I lost on the machines) helps me stop losing the plot and going buck wild on the machines then so be it. Its like losing the battle to win the war.

I know they say in theory you cant do that but as Paul has already contradicted himself different addictions effect people in different ways.

I also know my way isnt for everyone but its abut me personally, no one else, they can sort their own problems out.

also a good point. I guess at the end of the day it's down to whatever works.

Not always seen eye to eye with Polo, but agree totally with him in this. It can be devastating, more so than drug addictions in many ways.

It can tear families apart and I sincerely with him all the best on his journey to recovery.

Thank you Chuckles

frankly I don't know how paulh could read that as polo being blase?!?

.

He should go to Specsavers, especially after reading his views on darts and football

What, that winstanley is a good player? pretty obvious really.


The more i think about it polo, the more i think your just a desperare attention seeker not just with your poor grasp of what constitutes an addiction, but your one dimensional veiws on.... well everything really

Please dont think Paul we wouldnt want your brain to overload and explode. Well, actually....

also a good point. I guess at the end of the day it's down to whatever works.

Exactly. Sitting down in a room with other addicts, sharing sob stories I know isnt for me, I am not the most compassionate person with strangers (as you may have gathered) and have enough of my own sob stories.

My problem, ill deal with it.

Just about sums you up polo, you presume i couldnt have possible been in a similar position, and why exactly?

You are displaying all the textbook signs, though i dont need to explain them to yourself.

Ive seen many people like you, regardless of the addiction, the "f**k it" attitude doesnt work, if you really want to be cured you need to face it head on. you are passing the addiction onto the fobts to justify standard bets, which by your own posts in the gambling threads, are not small

I dont know if you have a wife and kids or whatever, but if so you need to use them as the strength to help you, if you really are as happy as you seem to carry on the way you are going then you dont really have the right to comment on the seriousness of an addiction

Just about sums you up polo, you presume i couldnt have possible been in a similar position, and why exactly?

You are displaying all the textbook signs, though i dont need to explain them to yourself.

Ive seen many people like you, regardless of the addiction, the "f**k it" attitude doesnt work, if you really want to be cured you need to face it head on. you are passing the addiction onto the fobts to justify standard bets, which by your own posts in the gambling threads, are not small

I dont know if you have a wife and kids or whatever, but if so you need to use them as the strength to help you, if you really are as happy as you seem to carry on the way you are going then you dont really have the right to comment on the seriousness of an addiction

Oh my days, give it a rest. Polo has not assumed anything. You jumped on him in this thread calling his approach 'blase'. Did you expect someone not to debate back? Thats what a forum is for. As for gambling, there is controlling it and there is being done with it completely. People come off hard drugs but then smoke to fill the void of addiction. Is it ideal? No, but its sure as hell a lot better than using a needle.

Every case is different. I think you have assumed here in fact, you have assumed Polo should approach this in the same manner other people do. Every addict has their own way of dealing with things regardless of the addiction and having a blanket policy of trying to sort things out is ridiculous. Not all gambling addicts go back to spending big once they're in control of it.

You go with 'you need to do this', 'you must do that', like you are reading out of some sort of '10 steps to beat your addiction text book. Im not making excuses for addicts at all but it is a lot more complex than that.

All smack heads tend to look a certain way, it's very hard to function normally whilst on class A drugs. You tend to let yourself go and begin to look like an addict. People perceive you to be a scumbag etc. Gambling addicts on the other hand come from ALL walks of life, rich, poor, working class even doctors. You can function as a gambling addict and in many ways you have to keep a job to earn money to feed your addiction.

What I am saying is it is obvious to many people that those addicted to class A drugs need help, it's hard to hide. Gambling addicts are secretive and have very few outward signs of addiction making it very hard for other to help them, you simply don't tell anyone you have a problem, you don't need to.

FOTB need to banned, it's no different than the equivalent of pubs serving pints of vodka. You are allowed to drink but pubs are not allowed to give you so much vodka that you can die. Same with these machines that can have you blow a 5k in an hour, it's mind boggling why nothings being stopped.

Just about sums you up polo, you presume i couldnt have possible been in a similar position, and why exactly?

do/did i have a proper addiction? probably not, becuase although tempted to have a bet now, i dont get the pull of it i used too, and i am managing to stop myself.

You are displaying all the textbook signs, though i dont need to explain them to yourself.

Ive seen many people like you, regardless of the addiction, the "f**k it" attitude doesnt work, if you really want to be cured you need to face it head on. you are passing the addiction onto the fobts to justify standard bets, which by your own posts in the gambling threads, are not small

I dont know if you have a wife and kids or whatever, but if so you need to use them as the strength to help you, if you really are as happy as you seem to carry on the way you are going then you dont really have the right to comment on the seriousness of an addiction

You also said it started on your 18th birthday, and you ran up some debts, so assuming the 85 in your user name is you birth year, thats 7 years ago, and then you go on to say you had a big win last September so didnt get a buzz from winning 50s or 60s anymore. That hardly sounds like a gambling addiction thats out of control.

As for the rest of the text book blurb, please stop, its cringeworthy.

All smack heads tend to look a certain way, it's very hard to function normally whilst on class A drugs. You tend to let yourself go and begin to look like an addict. People perceive you to be a scumbag etc. Gambling addicts on the other hand come from ALL walks of life, rich, poor, working class even doctors. You can function as a gambling addict and in many ways you have to keep a job to earn money to feed your addiction.

What I am saying is it is obvious to many people that those addicted to class A drugs need help, it's hard to hide. Gambling addicts are secretive and have very few outward signs of addiction making it very hard for other to help them, you simply don't tell anyone you have a problem, you don't need to.

FOTB need to banned, it's no different than the equivalent of pubs serving pints of vodka. You are allowed to drink but pubs are not allowed to give you so much vodka that you can die. Same with these machines that can have you blow a 5k in an hour, it's mind boggling why nothings being stopped.

Some excellent and very true points

If gambling was to be classifed as drugs are then FOBTs will be going straight to the Class A crack Cocaine / Heroin catergory.

As Barnett points out in his post if a Junkie manages to kick heroin but still enjoys a smoke albeit a much softer classified drug then its better than them looking for their next fix and sharing needles.

Just about sums you up polo, you presume i couldnt have possible been in a similar position, and why exactly?

You are displaying all the textbook signs, though i dont need to explain them to yourself.

Ive seen many people like you, regardless of the addiction, the "f**k it" attitude doesnt work, if you really want to be cured you need to face it head on. you are passing the addiction onto the fobts to justify standard bets, which by your own posts in the gambling threads, are not small

I dont know if you have a wife and kids or whatever, but if so you need to use them as the strength to help you, if you really are as happy as you seem to carry on the way you are going then you dont really have the right to comment on the seriousness of an addiction

Oh my days, give it a rest. Polo has not assumed anything. You jumped on him in this thread calling his approach 'blase'. Did you expect someone not to debate back? Thats what a forum is for. As for gambling, there is controlling it and there is being done with it completely. People come off hard drugs but then smoke to fill the void of addiction. Is it ideal? No, but its sure as hell a lot better than using a needle.

Every case is different. I think you have assumed here in fact, you have assumed Polo should approach this in the same manner other people do. Every addict has their own way of dealing with things regardless of the addiction and having a blanket policy of trying to sort things out is ridiculous. Not all gambling addicts go back to spending big once they're in control of it.

You go with 'you need to do this', 'you must do that', like you are reading out of some sort of '10 steps to beat your addiction text book. Im not making excuses for addicts at all but it is a lot more complex than that.

Barnett to be fair thats a bloody good post

Yeah,good post barnett!

also a good point. I guess at the end of the day it's down to whatever works.

Exactly. Sitting down in a room with other addicts, sharing sob stories I know isnt for me, I am not the most compassionate person with strangers (as you may have gathered) and have enough of my own sob stories.

My problem, ill deal with it.

Polo, iv always liked you...so dont take this to personally, but if you want to stop and have a quallity of life whereby you feel okay with yourself you afto be willing to go to any lenths.....the thing with GA, AA, NA, they offer you a program of recovery on a daily basis and it works, they're not intrested in addiction...to many f*cking experts who know f**k all as we see on here, its about learning to live taking responsibillity and becoming a responsible member of society.
to me you sound like you havent had enough yet, and i believe you'll bet again because you are putting blocks up...people with sob stories Etc Etc....the one thing that ive learnt in my recovery is that you cant do this on your own, and who the f**k would want to anyway....you can always PM me and i would meet up with you for a chat before a game...Good Luck Son

The FOBTs should be banned and or they should be cash only. Letting you whack your bank card in them is criminal.

.....sorry mate, I totally agree....you know I love a bet, but I've only once or twice used a card in a shop, and I've never played those machines, horses and football for me...

There's a lot of views on here and it's interesting to see everyone's perspectives. For what my opinion is worth I think the main difference between gambling addiction and drug addiction is the fact that gambling is just mental addiction where as drugs are a physical addiction. I'm not saying one is worse than the other but drug addiction negatively impacts on a person's physical state as well as their mental state more so than gambling.

Also, gambling can be enjoyed in a responsible manner where as drugs such as class A's cannot be dabbled in recreationally and responsibly in the same way. I've not got an addictive personality (really low attention span!) so I'm lucky to never have had an addiction but the above poster saying that it's all about responsibility is true.

also a good point. I guess at the end of the day it's down to whatever works.

Exactly. Sitting down in a room with other addicts, sharing sob stories I know isnt for me, I am not the most compassionate person with strangers (as you may have gathered) and have enough of my own sob stories.

My problem, ill deal with it.

Polo, iv always liked you...so dont take this to personally, but if you want to stop and have a quallity of life whereby you feel okay with yourself you afto be willing to go to any lenths.....the thing with GA, AA, NA, they offer you a program of recovery on a daily basis and it works, they're not intrested in addiction...to many f*cking experts who know f**k all as we see on here, its about learning to live taking responsibillity and becoming a responsible member of society.
to me you sound like you havent had enough yet, and i believe you'll bet again because you are putting blocks up...people with sob stories Etc Etc....the one thing that ive learnt in my recovery is that you cant do this on your own, and who the f**k would want to anyway....you can always PM me and i would meet up with you for a chat before a game...Good Luck Son

Mate I am confident I can do this without seeking help. I dont know if you read all the thread but after what happened with me nearly losing my job it has really hit home this time. Not knocking those who attend the meetings, each to their own, and everyone has their own way of dealing with things but the difference in my FOBT activity between now and 4 weeks ago today is unbelievable, and ive just got to keep going. As I said one tiny lapse of about 5 minutes but apart from that havent touched them. Prior to the last 4 weeks I would say ive played them solid for about 4 years, this last year 18 months in particular I would say its become an addiction.

However ive gone from staking hundreds per day, bunking off work, making lies up in work that my missus was locked out of the house can i drive down to let her in, then going to the bookies to try and win back money I lost on lunchtime. Pretended I got arrested for shoplifting, stopped by police for not wearing seat belts, speeding.etc to excuse coming back late from lunch. Telling the missus I need to work over time, bumped the car.etc to hide being out of the house for so long. Ive told so many lies if my nose grew like pinochios it would be the length of the M4.

I know the GA guys wouldnt be interested in my suituation anyway as I am not ready to give up small bets on the football. I know you say it cant be done, and the text books say shouldnt do this, but I am managing to control it and its one of my few pleasures in life.

This is the most ive opened up on it probably. I find it easier to put the words down on a screen than speak to someone. I did go to join a GA site online but I read most of the posts and everyone just wanted to blame their addictions down to someonelse and i couldnt be having that. "My neighbours are noisy so i gamble. My mam didnt give me attention as a child so i gamble.etc.etc.". Behave.

There's a lot of views on here and it's interesting to see everyone's perspectives. For what my opinion is worth I think the main difference between gambling addiction and drug addiction is the fact that gambling is just mental addiction where as drugs are a physical addiction. I'm not saying one is worse than the other but drug addiction negatively impacts on a person's physical state as well as their mental state more so than gambling.

Also, gambling can be enjoyed in a responsible manner where as drugs such as class A's cannot be dabbled in recreationally and responsibly in the same way. I've not got an addictive personality (really low attention span!) so I'm lucky to never have had an addiction but the above poster saying that it's all about responsibility is true.

Agree to a point but loads of people, including myself, use class a's such as coke recreationally and are not addicted. Ive done it all my adult life. Heroin and Crack I agree there dont appear to be casual users, they are all addicts and I wouldnt class these as recreational drugs.

Thats why, in my opinion, the FOBT's should be banned as I would say like heroin and crack most users have a problem with them, and its not sensible or enjoyable gambling. Only the minority use them sensibly.

The documentarys I have watched them say majority of people cannot use them responsibly, even insiders in the industry admitted it, albeit with their faces blanked out for fear of the sack, that it has turned casual, responsible gamblers who just used to like a little flutter on the horses, hounds, football.etc into a serious gambling problem. However, the government and top brass at the betting firms will never admit cos its making them too much money.

The government should have looked into it more before passing the legislation. The "pokies" in Australia (FOBTs in pubs!!!!) have given the country a massive gambling problem. But like i say, they dont really care about anything but the tax they can make.

The FOBTs should be banned and or they should be cash only. Letting you whack your bank card in them is criminal.

.....sorry mate, I totally agree....you know I love a bet, but I've only once or twice used a card in a shop, and I've never played those machines, horses and football for me...

You know me mate I try and see the bright side of the situation but the money ive lost this past 12 months is criminal.

You can only take £300 a day cash from the machine but the machines in the bookies let you take out thousands if you have it in the bank!!!

That should be looked into IMO.

I agree completely with what Barnett is saying (he can make good posts now and again ). Gambling is one of the hardest addictions to kick and will ruin many people as others have stated. I enjoy gambling but I've always managed to keep it under control. Mostly by going through large periods of time not betting.

I'm a poor loser so if I dont win I go into sulk and in a way stops me from carrying on betting. The worst I find myself with gambling is that I get greedy, I could be winning and instead of just taking what I've won I keep pushing for more money and numerous times its cost me and i've ended up losing money that I can't really afford to lose. I think being a student and not even having lots of money to blow away on gambling has helped maintain it.

I'm lucky enough to have never gone through what others such as polo has so I wont comment on things like that as I have no experience of it.

also a good point. I guess at the end of the day it's down to whatever works.

Exactly. Sitting down in a room with other addicts, sharing sob stories I know isnt for me, I am not the most compassionate person with strangers (as you may have gathered) and have enough of my own sob stories.

My problem, ill deal with it.

Polo, iv always liked you...so dont take this to personally, but if you want to stop and have a quallity of life whereby you feel okay with yourself you afto be willing to go to any lenths.....the thing with GA, AA, NA, they offer you a program of recovery on a daily basis and it works, they're not intrested in addiction...to many f*cking experts who know f**k all as we see on here, its about learning to live taking responsibillity and becoming a responsible member of society.
to me you sound like you havent had enough yet, and i believe you'll bet again because you are putting blocks up...people with sob stories Etc Etc....the one thing that ive learnt in my recovery is that you cant do this on your own, and who the f**k would want to anyway....you can always PM me and i would meet up with you for a chat before a game...Good Luck Son

Mate I am confident I can do this without seeking help. I dont know if you read all the thread but after what happened with me nearly losing my job it has really hit home this time. Not knocking those who attend the meetings, each to their own, and everyone has their own way of dealing with things but the difference in my FOBT activity between now and 4 weeks ago today is unbelievable, and ive just got to keep going. As I said one tiny lapse of about 5 minutes but apart from that havent touched them. Prior to the last 4 weeks I would say ive played them solid for about 4 years, this last year 18 months in particular I would say its become an addiction.

However ive gone from staking hundreds per day, bunking off work, making lies up in work that my missus was locked out of the house can i drive down to let her in, then going to the bookies to try and win back money I lost on lunchtime. Pretended I got arrested for shoplifting, stopped by police for not wearing seat belts, speeding.etc to excuse coming back late from lunch. Telling the missus I need to work over time, bumped the car.etc to hide being out of the house for so long. Ive told so many lies if my nose grew like pinochios it would be the length of the M4.

I know the GA guys wouldnt be interested in my suituation anyway as I am not ready to give up small bets on the football. I know you say it cant be done, and the text books say shouldnt do this, but I am managing to control it and its one of my few pleasures in life.

This is the most ive opened up on it probably. I find it easier to put the words down on a screen than speak to someone. I did go to join a GA site online but I read most of the posts and everyone just wanted to blame their addictions down to someonelse and i couldnt be having that. "My neighbours are noisy so i gamble. My mam didnt give me attention as a child so i gamble.etc.etc.". Behave.

I really understand and can relate to all the devious lies and storys we have to spin to our employers and to our nearest and dearest, I wouldn't recommend on line meetings-it's best to go and then you will get more of an idea......the one thing I will say though is in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous on page 568 it says and I quote,

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance.....that principle is Contempt prior to investigation.

I think he's saying the gambling addict can't bet on anything at all, much like the alcoholic can't drink again. A fair point.

Yes I know what hes trying to say but I dont need to hear it from some wally who has read the theory but hasnt lived the reality. Hes like a social worker with no kids trying to tell a parent what makes a good parent.
I have already tried giving up completely it would just build up til ive had a shit day then go and spunk loads on the machines.

I gambled enjoyably and sensibly for years before the FOBTs and have started to do so again and if betting small stakes on the football (and winning more than I lose albeit tiny stakes compared to what I lost on the machines) helps me stop losing the plot and going buck wild on the machines then so be it. Its like losing the battle to win the war.

I know they say in theory you cant do that but as Paul has already contradicted himself different addictions effect people in different ways.

I also know my way isnt for everyone but its abut me personally, no one else, they can sort their own problems out.

Interesting how many different opinions there are on this subject.
The two principles of overcoming a drug addiction are either 'harm minimisation' or 'abstinence' depending on the individual which one of these is most successful. Giving up all drugs altogether may work for person A (abstinence) whereas replacing heroin use with cannabis use may work for person B (harm minimisation). Interesting to see how it has been used with regards to a gambling addiction here, some people thinking no betting at all is what works for them or in Polo's case betting small stakes rather than FOBT's has worked and evidently reduced the risk of harm to himself. Well done!
Overall the key to success is finding something which works for that individual (sometimes at the 4th, 5th, 6th, etc attempt) and helps them in their recovery. It's not easy but I have a lot of respect for anyone who has overcome any type of addiction.

The FOBTs should be banned and or they should be cash only. Letting you whack your bank card in them is criminal.

.....sorry mate, I totally agree....you know I love a bet, but I've only once or twice used a card in a shop, and I've never played those machines, horses and football for me...

You know me mate I try and see the bright side of the situation but the money ive lost this past 12 months is criminal.

You can only take £300 a day cash from the machine but the machines in the bookies let you take out thousands if you have it in the bank!!!

That should be looked into IMO.

I totally agree, they harp on about responsible gambling campaigns but what chance you got when there's no limit with the cards..

In my opinion the roulette machines should be banned. Stopped myself playing roulette over a year ago and despite a lapse here and there I've managed well.

Whilst I was in Uni I played poker 5+ hours most days and did reasonably well out of it, managed my nights out, clothes and food paid out of it. However now that I work I have no time to commit to it anymore but still need the gambling buzz. Last year I deposited around £500 a few times and lost it as I didn't have time to commit to playing as I was doing my teachers training and wanted to win big like i used to. Banned myself from pokerstars and other good sites so don't play anymore. I've definitely felt very low at times after blowing 300-400 quid a time on online roulette and I know I have an addiction. However I really enjoy a bet on the footy and find it a great way to give me a small buzz and this keeps me away from online roulette and roulette machines in the bookies. Only gamble online with bookies that allow me to ban the 'games' and 'casino' options. I won't claim to be in profit from my sports betting but having decent sports knowledge I don't lose a huge amount. I also try and limit myself to lose a max of around (very rarely lose this but the occasional terrible week happens) a 1/3 of my weekly wage.

Going back to the roulette machines I know a few guys in the local bookies who don't earn much but are constantly doing doing £100 spins on the roulette. Seen em get 200£ up to 1500£ in 2 mins and by the time I finish picking my coupon it's all gone. Also seen a few mates and acquaintances close to or in tears because of them. Didn't know you could use cards in them these days, that's disgraceful.

They will never get rid of roulette machines. They should do but they only care about the money they make and those machines are a gold mine for them. I have seen students blow a weeks living expenses in less than 2 minutes on those machines.

The reason I never bother with these machines is im a skeptic and look very negatively on things to some degree. As I work in computing and know how these things work I know that they're programmed to win and for you to lose. You may win short term but long term you will lose because they're programmed in a manner to make sure that happens, unless you are EXTREMELY lucky. Thats one of the reasons I stay away from them.

One of my mates dads used to make fruit machines and he knew the combination for one type of machine in Porthcawl. This was years ago now in the arcade in Trecco Bay so I must have been around 14-15. The options you got once you got into the 'control panel' were unbelievable. i.e. increase chance of winning by 80%, double payout, treble payout, etc.

Polo, I actually think you are going the right way about it. I know we aint seen eye to eye a lot on here but I believe if you can control it then you are doing better than someone who does not gamble at all. Someone who does not gamble will still have the underlying desire to do so, they are to some degree just avoiding it.

What I would like to know is how many people have totally stopped, seen a bookies and have given in and spent £200 on a roulette machine? Take cigarettes away from someone and they will have the hunger for them and crave them, give them 3 a day after each of their meals and they wont be so bad.

http://www.intergameonline.com/coin-op/news/8701/fobts-in-commons-debate Looks like there trying to do something about it.

They should cap them per spin, i said i play on two site's, got my self on a 4 week ban at the mo, I'm spending to much on them, well the one site on the slot's you can bet up to £80 a spin, 20 line slot machine, on the same slot machine, on the other site they have it caped at i think it's £5 or £10 a spin, still bad but at least you can't spend silly amounts in one go, i did notice i was putting to much in still, so I've put my self on a limit, i can only deposit £30 a week and use to 4 week ban to stop me depositing every week, I've tried the old phone them up and deactivate the account, what a load of shit, a week later i try and log in, it takes me to a screen do you want to re-activate your account yes/no.

Anyone see that program one a while ago about the ridiculous amount of bookmakers popping up everywhere on the high street?
They say there was no real profit to be made on the sports betting side of it but the roulette machines made an absolute killing. I think there is a law that only allows 4 machines in one shop and that's the reason these bookies keep popping up. If you walk past Coral in middle of town or pop in for a quick bet then the roulette machines will almost always be taken up. They must be making thousands per machine every week, no wonder they can afford all this advertising which ends up making them even more money. You only have to look at Paddy Power's profits post Euros to realize that