RELIGION?

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

'Real experiences' surely that's a matter of opinion?

99% of of believers are determined to do good? Does that mean people who don't believe in God aren't interested in doing what is right? Some of us don't need a religion to tell us what is right and wrong.

[quote="CraigMc} Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

You clearly have no understanding of faith, try visiting a good local Church![/quote]

that's the last place you will see me

[quote="CraigMc} Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

You clearly have no understanding of faith, try visiting a good local Church!

that's the last place you will see me[/quote]

Why? Are you muslim or other?

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

'Real experiences' surely that's a matter of opinion?

99% of of believers are determined to do good? Does that mean people who don't believe in God aren't interested in doing what is right? Some of us don't need a religion to tell us what is right and wrong.

It's a matter of someones own life experience, some have had it, some haven't.

Nope, what it means is that 99% of believers faith manifests itself in good. Don't put words in my mouth.

Tell me then, how do you know what is right and wrong?

[quote="CraigMc} Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

You clearly have no understanding of faith, try visiting a good local Church!

that's the last place you will see me[/quote]

I am sure the likes of Nicky Cruz & the Apostle Paul also said that at one point! Actually, I probably said it in my teenage years too!

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

'Real experiences' surely that's a matter of opinion?

99% of of believers are determined to do good? Does that mean people who don't believe in God aren't interested in doing what is right? Some of us don't need a religion to tell us what is right and wrong.

It's a matter of someones own life experience, some have had it, some haven't.

Nope, what it means is that 99% of believers faith manifests itself in good. Don't put words in my mouth.

Tell me then, how do you know what is right and wrong?

I have no doubt in my mind that 99% of believers have everyone's best interest at heart, I'm not calling anybody evil here. All I am trying to say is that people shouldn't need a religion to teach them morals.

And to answer your question my parents taught me right from wrong as a child.

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

'Real experiences' surely that's a matter of opinion?

99% of of believers are determined to do good? Does that mean people who don't believe in God aren't interested in doing what is right? Some of us don't need a religion to tell us what is right and wrong.

It's a matter of someones own life experience, some have had it, some haven't.

Nope, what it means is that 99% of believers faith manifests itself in good. Don't put words in my mouth.

Tell me then, how do you know what is right and wrong?

I have no doubt in my mind that 99% of believers have everyone's best interest at heart, I'm not calling anybody evil here. All I am trying to say is that people shouldn't need a religion to teach them morals.

And to answer your question my parents taught me right from wrong as a child.

You're parents were almost definately taught via a christian doctrine.

I have no doubt in my mind that 99% of believers have everyone's best interest at heart, I'm not calling anybody evil here. All I am trying to say is that people shouldn't need a religion to teach them morals.

And to answer your question my parents taught me right from wrong as a child

You didn't call anyone evil but what you did say was:-

'Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them'

I am sure your parents taught you great things, but my next question is, how do you know that those things are right and other views on morality are wrong? and if other parents teach their child different morals, does that make them wrong?

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

'Real experiences' surely that's a matter of opinion?

99% of of believers are determined to do good? Does that mean people who don't believe in God aren't interested in doing what is right? Some of us don't need a religion to tell us what is right and wrong.

It's a matter of someones own life experience, some have had it, some haven't.

Nope, what it means is that 99% of believers faith manifests itself in good. Don't put words in my mouth.

Tell me then, how do you know what is right and wrong?

I have no doubt in my mind that 99% of believers have everyone's best interest at heart, I'm not calling anybody evil here. All I am trying to say is that people shouldn't need a religion to teach them morals.

And to answer your question my parents taught me right from wrong as a child.

You're parents were almost definately taught via a christian doctrine.

I don't think that assumption is for you to make but I can say that the idea of law and most of British law itself originated from the Ten Commandments.

It's an assumption based on the fact britains institutions were all largely concieved and underpinned by social christian teaching, unless his family were raisied in a hippie commune or asia he's a product of this.

I gave up with him and Chuckles a long time ago when it become obvious they hadn't read the thread and weren't prepared to debate, only to spout their own agendas.

Same here, still think they're the same person, i tried with El Paxo but i fear he's genuinely nuts or at the very least, afflicted with one personality disorder, Him claiming a question of the sun rising wasn't philisophical, clinched the deal, the weird thing is, he probably needs religion more than anyone else here.[/quote]

It isn't a philosophical question. The sun doesn't rise, it doesn't move.

Next.

If you can't answer my questions then say so and move on rather than these school yard personal attacks. If you can then I'm still all ears.

It's an assumption based on the fact britains institutions were all largely concieved and underpinned by social christian teaching, unless his family were raisied in a hippie commune or asia he's a product of this.

Do laws are created because of the bible? So how come these laws aren't our laws today.... Ill tell you the answer, because we know whats right and wrong and dropped the wrong ones whether the bible told us or otherwise. The laws are based on a humans moral code which existed with or without religion,,,,.


Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

So you know that "because the bible says" yet are fully aware nobody was around when he supposedly created the earth and universe etc yet described in perfect detail?.... And since proven wrong.

There is no reasoning with Christians when they have got to this point, logic goes out the window,

The day religion gets abolished, is the day the human race can move on.

Move on to what? An amoral state with a tonne of depressed people, which we're already heading towards....

Utter bollocks, do we need religion to be moral? No. Do we need religion to be good people? No. Do we need religion to change peoples lives? No.

I'm very close minded and stubborn on this issue, I've got to the stage where I don't care if I offend people, obviously I'll try not to. But I'm just fed up of something which was clearly invented to control people.

You need the standard of a higher power to actually know what being moral/good is. If you disagree, tell me how you know what makes something good or bad.

I have a relationship with God, I can tell you it is not an invention and it doesn't control people. Don't you realise the early Christian Church started under threat of death from the governing powers yet grew at a rate anyone would be astonished by.

Again are you telling me that prior to 2000 years ago nobody knew that killing another man was wrong? Stealing was wrong? f*cking someone else's wife was wrong? The funny thing is, according to the bible Jesus was crucified next to a thief was he not? So they knew stealing was wrong before Christianity was born.

It's just nonsense.

Kids grow up with the family who raise them. They get taught what is right or wrong by what brings harmony to the family. If the kid hits mum or dad year will be told off, not because god told em it was wrong but because it hurts, he will then know not to be horrible and hurt others. If he steals your wallet or the other child's food he will be told off, again not because god told them its wrong but because the other son would go without and you don't want him stealing from you. If you had a cat and the kid stabbed it to death he would be told off, not because god told him it was wrong but because you don't want the kid killing things.

It's simple really, and I'm amazed you think none of this existed before Christianity.

pretty much what he said ^

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

So you know that "because the bible says" yet are fully aware nobody was around when he supposedly created the earth and universe etc yet described in perfect detail?.... And since proven wrong.

There is no reasoning with Christians when they have got to this point, logic goes out the window,

Contempory Logic is useless when comprehending our existence, this is your one big flaw in thinking.

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

So you know that "because the bible says" yet are fully aware nobody was around when he supposedly created the earth and universe etc yet described in perfect detail?.... And since proven wrong.

There is no reasoning with Christians when they have got to this point, logic goes out the window,

Contempory Logic is useless when comprehending our existence, this is your one big flaw in thinking.

Nobody is claiming to know how the universe started, as none of us were there. Well apart from Christians that is who claim to know what happened.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I said. I said what couldn't have happened, not what did happen. By knowing the age of the earth and how animals devolop and evolve over time - we can now decipher if what the bible tells us is correct or not correct.

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

So you know that "because the bible says" yet are fully aware nobody was around when he supposedly created the earth and universe etc yet described in perfect detail?.... And since proven wrong.

There is no reasoning with Christians when they have got to this point, logic goes out the window,

Contempory Logic is useless when comprehending our existence, this is your one big flaw in thinking.

Nobody is claiming to know how the universe started, as none of us were there. Well apart from Christians that is who claim to know what happened.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I said. I said what couldn't have happened, not what did happen. By knowing the age of the earth and how animals devolop and evolve over time - we can now decipher if what the bible tells us is correct or not correct.

fair play you make me laugh if you were actually as intelligent and educated as you claim to be, you would know half the crap you are spouting in this thread isnt true, backed up by science and religious scholars, they both agree with each other on how the world was created. You seem to be standing alone on this argument

The main protagonist in this thread is surely a twisted soul.
I have a sense that his anti-religious outpourings have something to do with Leviticus 20.13 as he has invariably been a little sensitive when poofery is mentioned.
Isn't that right hen?

What gets to me most is people putting religious history across as fact...

What gets to me most is people putting religious history across as fact...

whos doing that? only one person here who insists religious history must be fact is paxman.

fair play you make me laugh if you were actually as intelligent and educated as you claim to be, you would know half the crap you are spouting in this thread isnt true, backed up by science and religious scholars, they both agree with each other on how the world was created. You seem to be standing alone on this argument

Where have I claimed to be intelligent or educated? Are you making stuff up again?

Right onto your point. Where has science ever agreed that the world was created by a supernatural being and man was created from dust?

I'm not sure what scientists you have been speaking to but clearly not qualified ones

Although as an aside, I had a great conversation with a Christian friend of mine who explained his stance very well. And is the best answer I've had of all the times I've asked people.

He simply thinks God made mountains in their true form so when judging the age of the layers, they don't give a true representation of time as they layers were already there when god made the massive mountain etc.

He's wrong of course because each layer of sediment has been out there by different climates and different conditions the mountain was exposed to over that length of time. Which of course wouldn't be there if God just made it in an instant. But my ate wasn't to know that but loved his simplistic view on it.

But that brings me back to the point I made earlier in the thread that people fill in any blanks with their own interpretation as soon as something doesn't make sense. On this thread alone we have two Christians, one who thinks the world is billions of years old but thinks the bible is wrong because the people didnt know that back then (even though they wrote it from the word of God so that doesn't make much sense), another who thinks the world is only 6000 years old but every thing seems older because of a flood (even though the moon has been dated at 14 billion years old and has never been flooded) and then there's my mate who also thinks its 6000 years old but man and dinosaur lived side by side and all the things tested for age were made in the current form and not evolved.

If the bible made sense or Christianity made sense, then there wouldn't be the need for every Christian to have their own version of the bible.

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

So you know that "because the bible says" yet are fully aware nobody was around when he supposedly created the earth and universe etc yet described in perfect detail?.... And since proven wrong.

There is no reasoning with Christians when they have got to this point, logic goes out the window,

Contempory Logic is useless when comprehending our existence, this is your one big flaw in thinking.

Nobody is claiming to know how the universe started, as none of us were there. Well apart from Christians that is who claim to know what happened.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I said. I said what couldn't have happened, not what did happen. By knowing the age of the earth and how animals devolop and evolve over time - we can now decipher if what the bible tells us is correct or not correct.

My point was that your reverence for Logic is contradictary, as the atheist belief is that SOMETHING got created from NOTHING, yet that concept is illogical when analysed using conventional logic, so i assume your agnostic then?

My point was that your reverence for Logic is contradictary, as the atheist belief is that SOMETHING got created from NOTHING, yet that concept is illogical when analysed using conventional logic, so i assume your agnostic then?

Atheists simply reject the notion of a god, and do not have to believe anything about the origins of the universe. If you do not believe in a god then you can be called an atheist.

My point was that your reverence for Logic is contradictary, as the atheist belief is that SOMETHING got created from NOTHING, yet that concept is illogical when analysed using conventional logic, so i assume your agnostic then?

Atheists simply reject the notion of a god, and do not have to believe anything about the origins of the universe. If you do not believe in a god then you can be called an atheist.

I've not got the time to sift back through this thread but Thought i read him explaining the big bang theory earlier in this 12 pager, perhaps it were you, who in turn is paxman moonlighting as barry chuckle

My point was that your reverence for Logic is contradictary, as the atheist belief is that SOMETHING got created from NOTHING, yet that concept is illogical when analysed using conventional logic, so i assume your agnostic then?

Atheists simply reject the notion of a god, and do not have to believe anything about the origins of the universe. If you do not believe in a god then you can be called an atheist.

I've not got the time to sift back through this thread but Thought i read him explaining the big bang theory earlier in this 12 pager, perhaps it were you, who in turn is paxman moonlighting as barry chuckle

Incorrect.

My point was that your reverence for Logic is contradictary, as the atheist belief is that SOMETHING got created from NOTHING, yet that concept is illogical when analysed using conventional logic, so i assume your agnostic then?

Your ignorance holds no bounds it seems. Firstly, I don't class myself as anything. I'm simply a man who lives my life to MY standards and has MY OWN beliefs. I don't belong to any group or pigeon hole.

Secondly atheism is not the belief that something was created from nothing. They just reject the notion of a God like figure, as far as I'm aware none claim to know how the earth was made, why would they? They weren't there.

But what we can do is apply what we know now and say what DIDNT happen, And I'm afraid the bibles version cannot be correct. Simple as that.

fair play you make me laugh if you were actually as intelligent and educated as you claim to be, you would know half the crap you are spouting in this thread isnt true, backed up by science and religious scholars, they both agree with each other on how the world was created. You seem to be standing alone on this argument

Where have I claimed to be intelligent or educated? Are you making stuff up again?

Right onto your point. Where has science ever agreed that the world was created by a supernatural being and man was created from dust?

I'm not sure what scientists you have been speaking to but clearly not qualified ones

so your not intelligent or educated? well that explains a lot and sums you up perfectly

science and religion agree on more than you care to let on (though I think you already know this but denying it is more fun) simple fact is if you dont agree with that you not only reject and say religion is wrong your also saying science is wrong but never mind you keep tieing yourself in nots to support your idiotic notions. Does science say God exists no ive never said that. What ive tried explaining to you before but like Ohhgaa here fails to do is accept these facts when it comes to religion because your so hate filled and bigoted. Really pathetic to be honest.

http://mb-soft.com/public/genesis5.html

fair play you make me laugh if you were actually as intelligent and educated as you claim to be, you would know half the crap you are spouting in this thread isnt true, backed up by science and religious scholars, they both agree with each other on how the world was created. You seem to be standing alone on this argument

Where have I claimed to be intelligent or educated? Are you making stuff up again?

Right onto your point. Where has science ever agreed that the world was created by a supernatural being and man was created from dust?

I'm not sure what scientists you have been speaking to but clearly not qualified ones

so your not intelligent or educated? well that explains a lot and sums you up perfectly

science and religion agree on more than you care to let on (though I think you already know this but denying it is more fun) simple fact is if you dont agree with that you not only reject and say religion is wrong your also saying science is wrong but never mind you keep tieing yourself in nots to support your idiotic notions. Does science say God exists no ive never said that. What ive tried explaining to you before but like Ohhgaa here fails to do is accept these facts when it comes to religion because your so hate filled and bigoted. Really pathetic to be honest.

http://mb-soft.com/public/genesis5.html

I didnt say I wasn't intelligent or educated either. It hasn't been discussed, you just made up both conversations as you have done with all your points so far.

The argument was never about whether science and religion agree on some things. The argument was you stating science and religion agree on how the world was created and how man came to exist, which like most of your posts - simply isn't true.

your post is incredible. What makes you think I'm hate filled? Because I don't believe in magic or the supernatural? That's the most ridiculous viewpoint so far on this thread, and that includes a flood made things look 200 million years older.

Now if we can go back to the points being discussed rather than your angry rants at people asking questions then we may actually get somewhere.

Ok, do you think science agrees with the bible that people were made from dust? Do you think science agrees that God made the earth in a week? Do you think science agrees that humans were made 5 days after the creation of the world and dinosaurs never existed?

These are simple questions and to throw back "bigot" and "hate filled" is akin to an ethnic thief preaching "it's coz I'm black" after being arrested. I've been fair, I've asked questions and not insulted you once yet every post seems to be an insult directed at me along with some nonsense you later retract. Answer the questions if you can, if you can't then just say so - dont mask your inability to answer them with bile, it's not Christian like.

Good boy.