RELIGION?

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Corinthians. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


I can find more if you like?

Paxman you really are not going to believe anything these guys say. You pulling a random passage from the Bible and then trying to make it stand on it's own with no context is beneath even you.

Guys there is no point in disscussing this with Paxman, he will not stop, he will not conceede even when wrong. He says he is serious but his whole personality is based on a lie. That is why the moment he entered this thread it was over.

He will have the last word even if he has to post 1,213 times in an hour to do so.

I hate Religion ! It has brought more death to humanity than any other thing & has done for 100s of years & is still doing it now.

Bigger threat to world peace than a trigger happy North Korean.
If someone wants to worship a god fine, but dont cut off someones head for not believing. Each to their own, (although It's all bollocks)

The day religion gets abolished, is the day the human race can move on.

Move on to what? An amoral state with a tonne of depressed people, which we're already heading towards....

Utter bollocks, do we need religion to be moral? No. Do we need religion to be good people? No. Do we need religion to change peoples lives? No.

I'm very close minded and stubborn on this issue, I've got to the stage where I don't care if I offend people, obviously I'll try not to. But I'm just fed up of something which was clearly invented to control people.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Corinthians. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


I can find more if you like?

Paxman you really are not going to believe anything these guys say. You pulling a random passage from the Bible and then trying to make it stand on it's own with no context is beneath even you.

Guys there is no point in disscussing this with Paxman, he will not stop, he will not conceede even when wrong. He says he is serious but his whole personality is based on a lie. That is why the moment he entered this thread it was over.

He will have the last word even if he has to post 1,213 times in an hour to do so.

So I'm pulling random text from the bible? Yet both clearly state that homosexuality will lead to being sent to hell? That's a pretty good random stick I've got there.

I'm more than happy to concede when I'm wrong, but as of yet it's glaringly obvious that I'm not. Your post is full of assumptions, lies and wrong from beginning to end. But I'm not going to start making things up about you.

If you don't like my posts then don't read them, if you can't help yourself then put me on ignore, if you still can't help your self then stop complaining and enjoy.

Good lad.

I don't have to make anything up about you, you just proved me right.

You are so predictable Read the post, I did not complain about you, I just stated facts. Really Paxman I would never put you on ignore, I enjoy your post. It took a while but I admit sometimes you actually sound intelligent. However when it comes to religion, I just thought the boys on the other team needed to know who they were dealing with.

AS for the homophobia, that is fear of homosexuality. Most Chrisitans consider it a sin, yes, but that does not mean they hate or fear homosexuals, no. The Bible also condems lying, and adultery. In our culture Christians are not accused of having hatred for either. That is because most Christians also understand the concepts of grace and forgiveness. Concede away...that will be the day

I don't have to make anything up about you, you just proved me right.

You are so predictable Read the post, I did not complain about you, I just stated facts. Really Paxman I would never put you on ignore, I enjoy your post. It took a while but I admit sometimes you actually sound intelligent. However when it comes to religion, I just thought the boys on the other team needed to know who they were dealing with.

AS for the homophobia, that is fear of homosexuality. Most Chrisitans consider it a sin, yes, but that does not mean they hate or fear homosexuals, no. The Bible also condems lying, and adultery. In our culture Christians are not accused of having hatred for either. That is because most Christians also understand the concepts of grace and forgiveness. Concede away...that will be the day

How did what I say prove you right? You said my personality is based on a lie? That's a pretty strong accusation and one which seems to be based on nothing. So how is that stating a fact when it's your opinion? A wrong opinion at that.

Lying and adultery can't be put into the same bracket as homosexuality as they are based on deceit. Saying god will send homosexuals to hell is homophobic no matter how you try and dress is up.

That much is obvious,

your being far to literal, no the world wasnt created 6000 years ago but you explain 4.54 billion years, that number is a difficult concept even today.

no the world wasnt created in 6 days but at the time 7 was considered a large number, there are many references to the number 7 and is generally understood to be a number close to infinity. So 6 six days was and is considered a very long time but again you try telling humans 1000's of years ago that the world and the galaxy (something they have no concept of by the way) is 11 billion years old.

im not going to argue homosexuality here I have done in another thread feel free to look it up but that explains the stance of the church on homosexuality and believe it or not its not as evil as people try to make out, just another example of homophobes reinforcing their beliefs with religion and gay rights movements use the same to reinforce their attacks on the church.

in short however people concentrate on homosexuality when simply christians believe it be immoral to have sex outside of marriage be it heterosexual or homosexual. the church has a different definition of marriage to modern society and until such time two men or two women can naturally conceive a child together they dont fit into the churches definition.

I asked you not to mock this subject and you have done just that

I dont understand people like you, non-religious non-believers fine if thats what you believe I dont force my faith on you and I dont mock you for it, what gives any of you the right to tell me what I can or cannot believe and my whole faith structure is a joke.

I am amazed that a thread about religion has turned into a petty argument involving the usual suspects.

Jonny this really isn't the thread for you. This was a thread asking what people's views are on religion. I have asked some questions on religion, the parts that make no sense - if that's mocking then you clearly aren't very secure in your faith, where have I told you what you can and cannot believe either? Or have you just made at up?

You are allowed to have a belief but I am not is it? My belief is that religion in nonsense, if you think that's mocking you then tough I'm afraid.

So I've got one Christian here talking me the world IS 6000 years old but everything seems to be 4.5 billion years old because of a flood. Then I have you telling me that it isn't 6,000 years old but they said it was because people wouldn't understand back then and when they say the world was created in 7 days then it actually meant a lot longer than that then I've given proof of evolution happening in Front of our eyes but apparently that isn't happening either.

This is the problem I have with religion, not just Christianity. As soon as something is proved to be wrong or makes no sense at all it is changed by the person to something he or she would like it to mean. This means people in the same religion all end up believing different things. I have another Christian telling me dinosaur fossils and bones were put there by the devil.

My advice is stop spending your life hoping irrationally for an after life when you have already been given your life. Use it. But that's up to you.

It's all well and good having faith but please don't expect someone not to point out why it isn't true when it is presented so ridiculously. If you perceive that as mocking then so be it, put me on ignore. I have no reservations that if I told someone my life was based on the theory that everything was created by magic then most people with rationale would disagree - I wouldn't be offended.

Ho hum.

excuse me? dont presume to tell me what topics I can and cannot post in.

I know your just taking the piss because as a supposed intelligent person, you would understand that 2000 years ago people had a different understanding than today, improved mostly by scientific discovery.

There was no concept of a number like 4.5 billion, surely you understand that?

Evolution a concept only discovered by Charles Darwin in 1859, if we knew all about evolution from the bible know one would know Charles Darwin was. So I challenge you theoretically go back in time and try and explain evolution in the middle east, you would probably be arrested and sentenced to death.

How can the world be created in 7 days its impossible, science proves that it wasnt but the way the world was created according to the bible is scientifically sound.

you miss the meaning of the number 7

the number 7 symbolizes Gods perfection, His sovereignty and holiness. God created earth - seven days; one seven day week is a reminder of our creator; God blessed the seventh day, making it holy.

the number 7 important in both old and new testament . It seems that numerology was so important that representing an event or series of events with the number 7 helped prove that the story was true. The number 7 was of special importance in the zoroastrian religion, where there was 7 creations, 7 regions of the world, 7 Amesha Spenta (who became the 7 archangels of Judaism), and so on. This would have a great influence on the evolution of numerology in Judaism. However, the number 7 was already significant in Judaic numerology, indicating some earlier influence.

Some examples of 7 in the Old Testament: the first creation story in Genesis, written during or just after the Babylonian Exile, has 7 days; Noah took every clean beast and every bird by sevens, and in 7 days it rained; Jacob served seven years for Leah and seven years for Rachel; Egypt had seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.

Luke's Gospel demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because great men occurred in multiples of seven generations starting from Adam, Enoch at 7, Abraham at 21, David at 35 and Jesus at 77, while Matthew demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because there were 14 generations from Josiah to Jesus, just as there had been 14 generations from David to Josiah and from Abraham to David (14 being 2 times 7)

There were 7 heavensand the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah had the Son descended into the lower world and then re-ascend to the seventh heaven.

The new testament has the seven loaves and fishes; seven devils exorcised from Mary Magdalene; forgiveness seventy times 7. Also, Revelation has seven churches and many symbols are seven fold, usually because of the 7 angels (archangel)

My problem is you are either incredibly stupid or incredibly condescending, I suspect its the latter. Your intelligent enough to mock my beliefs using only half the facts.

So no mr paxman I believe that in fact this thread is not for you, you know exactly what your doing and as a practicing Catholic, I hold my religious values very close to my heart. I havent told you what you believe is wrong, I havent tried to convert you or told you your going to hell. What I have done is explain why the bible was written as it was and you have completely ignored it and continue to mock my religion. I find that shameful you havent asked any questions youve criticised my religion saying people change things around by making it suit what they believe and youve done exactly the same thing that makes you a hypocrite but you probably already know that already

Jonny this really isn't the thread for you. This was a thread asking what people's views are on religion. I have asked some questions on religion, the parts that make no sense - if that's mocking then you clearly aren't very secure in your faith, where have I told you what you can and cannot believe either? Or have you just made at up?

You are allowed to have a belief but I am not is it? My belief is that religion in nonsense, if you think that's mocking you then tough I'm afraid.

So I've got one Christian here talking me the world IS 6000 years old but everything seems to be 4.5 billion years old because of a flood. Then I have you telling me that it isn't 6,000 years old but they said it was because people wouldn't understand back then and when they say the world was created in 7 days then it actually meant a lot longer than that then I've given proof of evolution happening in Front of our eyes but apparently that isn't happening either.

This is the problem I have with religion, not just Christianity. As soon as something is proved to be wrong or makes no sense at all it is changed by the person to something he or she would like it to mean. This means people in the same religion all end up believing different things. I have another Christian telling me dinosaur fossils and bones were put there by the devil.

My advice is stop spending your life hoping irrationally for an after life when you have already been given your life. Use it. But that's up to you.

It's all well and good having faith but please don't expect someone not to point out why it isn't true when it is presented so ridiculously. If you perceive that as mocking then so be it, put me on ignore. I have no reservations that if I told someone my life was based on the theory that everything was created by magic then most people with rationale would disagree - I wouldn't be offended.

Ho hum.

excuse me? dont presume to tell me what topics I can and cannot post in.

i didn't, you are the one who is telling me what they can and cannot talk about, I simply made a suggestion that if you feel me questioning the gaping holes in your religion is mocking you then you should not participate in it or ignore me. Because if I feel questions need to be asked, ill ask them.

I know your just taking the piss because as a supposed intelligent person, you would understand that 2000 years ago people had a different understanding than today, improved mostly by scientific discovery.

this makes no sense. So you are now claiming people made up the story of the creation of the universe and not God himself? If people just made it up anyway then the religion is flawed from the get go. If god told people then surely he would know the exact details and then pass them on? If people accept there's a man walking on water and lives in another realm I'm sure they will get to grips with a big number. Surely you realise what you have said here is beyond ridiculous?

There was no concept of a number like 4.5 billion, surely you understand that?

again, shou are either suggesting that the bible was made up by people guessing or that god didnt know himself and passed on the wrong info.

Evolution a concept only discovered by Charles Darwin in 1859, if we knew all about evolution from the bible know one would know Charles Darwin was. So I challenge you theoretically go back in time and try and explain evolution in the middle east, you would probably be arrested and sentenced to death.

okay, have you read the bible? It doesn't matter when Darwin discovered evolution. It doesn't mean evolution started from the day it was discovered. The fact evolution exists makes the whole genesis part of the bible a complete nonsense. Again you seem to be suggesting the bible was completely made up by people claiming to now realise they got it wrong as it has been since discovered that it cannot be true, again surely you understand how silly your answer sounds?

How can the world be created in 7 days its impossible, science proves that it wasnt but the way the world was created according to the bible is scientifically sound.

why is it impossible? If God made it surely he can do anything, why do you doubt he could make the world in 7 days? I'm amazed you think everything in the bible is plausible, turning water into wine, walking on water, healing dying people, turning small meals into massive banquets... Yet want to bring whats possible and not possible into the argument? For someone who is accusing me of not taking this seriously you are being incredibly daft.

you miss the meaning of the number 7

the number 7 symbolizes Gods perfection, His sovereignty and holiness. God created earth - seven days; one seven day week is a reminder of our creator; God blessed the seventh day, making it holy.

the number 7 important in both old and new testament . It seems that numerology was so important that representing an event or series of events with the number 7 helped prove that the story was true. The number 7 was of special importance in the zoroastrian religion, where there was 7 creations, 7 regions of the world, 7 Amesha Spenta (who became the 7 archangels of Judaism), and so on. This would have a great influence on the evolution of numerology in Judaism. However, the number 7 was already significant in Judaic numerology, indicating some earlier influence.

Some examples of 7 in the Old Testament: the first creation story in Genesis, written during or just after the Babylonian Exile, has 7 days; Noah took every clean beast and every bird by sevens, and in 7 days it rained; Jacob served seven years for Leah and seven years for Rachel; Egypt had seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.

Luke's Gospel demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because great men occurred in multiples of seven generations starting from Adam, Enoch at 7, Abraham at 21, David at 35 and Jesus at 77, while Matthew demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because there were 14 generations from Josiah to Jesus, just as there had been 14 generations from David to Josiah and from Abraham to David (14 being 2 times 7)

There were 7 heavensand the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah had the Son descended into the lower world and then re-ascend to the seventh heaven.

The new testament has the seven loaves and fishes; seven devils exorcised from Mary Magdalene; forgiveness seventy times 7. Also, Revelation has seven churches and many symbols are seven fold, usually because of the 7 angels (archangel)

you are correct, I have no idea what you are talking about here. You seem to have got together a load of number 7,s and as a result assumed that the world wasn't created in 7 days like the bible suggests and come to your own conclusions. Again this is why religion is flawed. Things don't make sense so instead of realisi it's wrong like on most other topics, excuses are made for it and everyone has their own reasoning hence why there are thousands of religions,,

My problem is you are either incredibly stupid or incredibly condescending, I suspect its the latter. Your intelligent enough to mock my beliefs using only half the facts.

surely you are not in a position to point the finger at intelligence? You have just admitted that the bible is wrong because some stuff hadn't been discovered yet completely missing the point that God apparently (according to you guys) made the very Inge that hadn't been discovered yet. Why didnt he tell whoever wrote it that they were wrong or if he didnt tell them to write it you have based your life on a book written by people claiming to be writing on behalf of god who are now proven to be wrong. Either way surely you see it makes no sense?

So no mr paxman I believe that in fact this thread is not for you, you know exactly what your doing and as a practicing Catholic, I hold my religious values very close to my heart. I havent told you what you believe is wrong, I havent tried to convert you or told you your going to hell. What I have done is explain why the bible was written as it was and you have completely ignored it and continue to mock my religion. I find that shameful you havent asked any questions youve criticised my religion saying people change things around by making it suit what they believe and youve done exactly the same thing that makes you a hypocrite but you probably already know that already

oh this thread is certainly for me, right up my street in fact. I'm fascinated by the subject. If you don't think I have asked questions then I think it's fair to say you haven't read the thread, I have asked around 20 questions and haven't received a satisfactory answer to one of them as of yet. If Adam and Eve were the first living beings created 6000 years ago then how come dinosaurs lived some 200 million years before man? Don't believe they existed? Think a flood made them look millions of years older then they actually are? Planted by the devil? All interesting therious I'm sure you will agree.

You're asking cliché questions from the web passing them off as your own in a bid to seem intelligent, You exhibit very little philisophical understanding or self awareness, go into a darkened room with a notepad and pencil for a sabatical, Or is silence a scary thing for you? Perhaps your subconcious will then reveal who you really are? Scary eh

Here's a tip for you girls, just say what you want to say and aim it at the people you want to say it to instead of [qoute] copy and pasting previous comments [qoute]

Jesus saves but bellamy hits in the rebounds

Jonny this really isn't the thread for you. This was a thread asking what people's views are on religion. I have asked some questions on religion, the parts that make no sense - if that's mocking then you clearly aren't very secure in your faith, where have I told you what you can and cannot believe either? Or have you just made at up?

You are allowed to have a belief but I am not is it? My belief is that religion in nonsense, if you think that's mocking you then tough I'm afraid.

So I've got one Christian here talking me the world IS 6000 years old but everything seems to be 4.5 billion years old because of a flood. Then I have you telling me that it isn't 6,000 years old but they said it was because people wouldn't understand back then and when they say the world was created in 7 days then it actually meant a lot longer than that then I've given proof of evolution happening in Front of our eyes but apparently that isn't happening either.

This is the problem I have with religion, not just Christianity. As soon as something is proved to be wrong or makes no sense at all it is changed by the person to something he or she would like it to mean. This means people in the same religion all end up believing different things. I have another Christian telling me dinosaur fossils and bones were put there by the devil.

My advice is stop spending your life hoping irrationally for an after life when you have already been given your life. Use it. But that's up to you.

It's all well and good having faith but please don't expect someone not to point out why it isn't true when it is presented so ridiculously. If you perceive that as mocking then so be it, put me on ignore. I have no reservations that if I told someone my life was based on the theory that everything was created by magic then most people with rationale would disagree - I wouldn't be offended.

Ho hum.

excuse me? dont presume to tell me what topics I can and cannot post in.

i didn't, you are the one who is telling me what they can and cannot talk about, I simply made a suggestion that if you feel me questioning the gaping holes in your religion is mocking you then you should not participate in it or ignore me. Because if I feel questions need to be asked, ill ask them.

I know your just taking the piss because as a supposed intelligent person, you would understand that 2000 years ago people had a different understanding than today, improved mostly by scientific discovery.

this makes no sense. So you are now claiming people made up the story of the creation of the universe and not God himself? If people just made it up anyway then the religion is flawed from the get go. If god told people then surely he would know the exact details and then pass them on? If people accept there's a man walking on water and lives in another realm I'm sure they will get to grips with a big number. Surely you realise what you have said here is beyond ridiculous?

There was no concept of a number like 4.5 billion, surely you understand that?

again, shou are either suggesting that the bible was made up by people guessing or that god didnt know himself and passed on the wrong info.

Evolution a concept only discovered by Charles Darwin in 1859, if we knew all about evolution from the bible know one would know Charles Darwin was. So I challenge you theoretically go back in time and try and explain evolution in the middle east, you would probably be arrested and sentenced to death.

okay, have you read the bible? It doesn't matter when Darwin discovered evolution. It doesn't mean evolution started from the day it was discovered. The fact evolution exists makes the whole genesis part of the bible a complete nonsense. Again you seem to be suggesting the bible was completely made up by people claiming to now realise they got it wrong as it has been since discovered that it cannot be true, again surely you understand how silly your answer sounds?

How can the world be created in 7 days its impossible, science proves that it wasnt but the way the world was created according to the bible is scientifically sound.

why is it impossible? If God made it surely he can do anything, why do you doubt he could make the world in 7 days? I'm amazed you think everything in the bible is plausible, turning water into wine, walking on water, healing dying people, turning small meals into massive banquets... Yet want to bring whats possible and not possible into the argument? For someone who is accusing me of not taking this seriously you are being incredibly daft.

you miss the meaning of the number 7

the number 7 symbolizes Gods perfection, His sovereignty and holiness. God created earth - seven days; one seven day week is a reminder of our creator; God blessed the seventh day, making it holy.

the number 7 important in both old and new testament . It seems that numerology was so important that representing an event or series of events with the number 7 helped prove that the story was true. The number 7 was of special importance in the zoroastrian religion, where there was 7 creations, 7 regions of the world, 7 Amesha Spenta (who became the 7 archangels of Judaism), and so on. This would have a great influence on the evolution of numerology in Judaism. However, the number 7 was already significant in Judaic numerology, indicating some earlier influence.

Some examples of 7 in the Old Testament: the first creation story in Genesis, written during or just after the Babylonian Exile, has 7 days; Noah took every clean beast and every bird by sevens, and in 7 days it rained; Jacob served seven years for Leah and seven years for Rachel; Egypt had seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.

Luke's Gospel demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because great men occurred in multiples of seven generations starting from Adam, Enoch at 7, Abraham at 21, David at 35 and Jesus at 77, while Matthew demonstrates that Jesus was predestined for greatness because there were 14 generations from Josiah to Jesus, just as there had been 14 generations from David to Josiah and from Abraham to David (14 being 2 times 7)

There were 7 heavensand the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah had the Son descended into the lower world and then re-ascend to the seventh heaven.

The new testament has the seven loaves and fishes; seven devils exorcised from Mary Magdalene; forgiveness seventy times 7. Also, Revelation has seven churches and many symbols are seven fold, usually because of the 7 angels (archangel)

you are correct, I have no idea what you are talking about here. You seem to have got together a load of number 7,s and as a result assumed that the world wasn't created in 7 days like the bible suggests and come to your own conclusions. Again this is why religion is flawed. Things don't make sense so instead of realisi it's wrong like on most other topics, excuses are made for it and everyone has their own reasoning hence why there are thousands of religions,,

My problem is you are either incredibly stupid or incredibly condescending, I suspect its the latter. Your intelligent enough to mock my beliefs using only half the facts.

surely you are not in a position to point the finger at intelligence? You have just admitted that the bible is wrong because some stuff hadn't been discovered yet completely missing the point that God apparently (according to you guys) made the very Inge that hadn't been discovered yet. Why didnt he tell whoever wrote it that they were wrong or if he didnt tell them to write it you have based your life on a book written by people claiming to be writing on behalf of god who are now proven to be wrong. Either way surely you see it makes no sense?

So no mr paxman I believe that in fact this thread is not for you, you know exactly what your doing and as a practicing Catholic, I hold my religious values very close to my heart. I havent told you what you believe is wrong, I havent tried to convert you or told you your going to hell. What I have done is explain why the bible was written as it was and you have completely ignored it and continue to mock my religion. I find that shameful you havent asked any questions youve criticised my religion saying people change things around by making it suit what they believe and youve done exactly the same thing that makes you a hypocrite but you probably already know that already

oh this thread is certainly for me, right up my street in fact. I'm fascinated by the subject. If you don't think I have asked questions then I think it's fair to say you haven't read the thread, I have asked around 20 questions and haven't received a satisfactory answer to one of them as of yet. If Adam and Eve were the first living beings created 6000 years ago then how come dinosaurs lived some 200 million years before man? Don't believe they existed? Think a flood made them look millions of years older then they actually are? Planted by the devil? All interesting therious I'm sure you will agree.

thats the whole problem with you, you havent asked any sensible question and its just attack after attack. your not fascinated with religion your just fascinated with any subject which may get any sort of reaction.

I cant win you critcise how the bible was written based on the existence of dinosaurs, then you criticise my explanation. So this goes no where as per usual youve ruined a good thread. So this will be my last post. Ill give you one piece of advice though read some books learn something you may have a better understanding of history, culture, what the world was like before modern science. Which is the whole joke of it if the was an historical debate you would agree with most of what I say because thousands of years ago people didnt have the same scientific understanding we have to today but because religion is involved all sensible debate goes out the window especially by people like you.

How you don't think I'm being sensible is beyond me. You have explained something and I've probed a little further and you see it as mocking? I suggested many posts ago this thread isn't for you and it seems I'm right. Your personal attacks are relentless yet your answers aren't. Ill happily debate with you and continue as I was doing, but if you are here to just be evasive and to abuse then you are no good here,

So ill ask again...

You have said the bible is wrong because scientist weren't around then. So in that case you either believe...

1. People just made it up and didnt have modern science so were spectacularly wrong, meaning the whole foundations of the bible are incorrect.

2. God told the people to write it and god the details wrong.

3. The bible is correct but Darwin, science and all the evidence is wrong.

THIS is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. You seem to be accepting the book was made up by people yet willing to base your life on it? I can somewhat understand if you thought it was the word of god written through people but then how would you explain it being proved to be wrong?

Answer nicely please, none of this mocking and pretending to know me malarkey.

answer nicely? ive tried that you didnt listen to anything I said or considered anything, so whats the point.

all your categories are wrong I dont fit into any of them

I believe what the bible says im also appreciative that it was written a very long time ago, where none of the scientific discoveries that you talk about were studied or discovered. I except that some of the arguments are allegorical not literal for example the story of creation mentioned 7 days and if you think of 7 different periods of time rather than 7 days literally God os still the creator of the world so the bible is true in a way that is compatiable with scientific theories of how the world evolved.

I dont think people made it up and can understand why there reasoning was limited, take the world being flat, I know the world isnt flat, you know the world isnt flat but I can understand why people thought the world was flat.

I dont think God got it wrong not that God wrote it mind but what your trying to get people 1000's of years ago to understand would be the modern equivelant to teaching primary school children quantum physics before you taught them basic math good luck with that. Though I think you know all of this

I dont think any are wrong I dont believe the bible is wrong or Darwin or any other scientific discovery is wrong its interesting that genesis has the order of creation is correct according to modern understanding of how the world was created. So I will ask you this with no scientific knowledge how did people get it right when Genesis was written without some insperation from God?

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

LETS JUST END THIS THREAD NOW..


God Doesn't exist.


Jesus Is a Mexican dude.

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

would love for you to explain how im weak. Go on insult me all you want

How you don't think I'm being sensible is beyond me. You have explained something and I've probed a little further and you see it as mocking? I suggested many posts ago this thread isn't for you and it seems I'm right. Your personal attacks are relentless yet your answers aren't. Ill happily debate with you and continue as I was doing, but if you are here to just be evasive and to abuse then you are no good here,

So ill ask again...

You have said the bible is wrong because scientist weren't around then. So in that case you either believe...

1. People just made it up and didnt have modern science so were spectacularly wrong, meaning the whole foundations of the bible are incorrect.

2. God told the people to write it and god the details wrong.

3. The bible is correct but Darwin, science and all the evidence is wrong.

THIS is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. You seem to be accepting the book was made up by people yet willing to base your life on it? I can somewhat understand if you thought it was the word of god written through people but then how would you explain it being proved to be wrong?

Answer nicely please, none of this mocking and pretending to know me malarkey.

answer nicely? ive tried that you didnt listen to anything I said or considered anything, so whats the point.

you seem to be confusing not agreeing with not listening. The point is is is a discussion, if you want to put your point across then do it nicely. If you don't, then don't post.

all your categories are wrong I dont fit into any of them

I believe what the bible says im also appreciative that it was written a very long time ago, where none of the scientific discoveries that you talk about were studied or discovered. I except that some of the arguments are allegorical not literal for example the story of creation mentioned 7 days and if you think of 7 different periods of time rather than 7 days literally God os still the creator of the world so the bible is true in a way that is compatiable with scientific theories of how the world evolved.

you are missing the point. It doesn't matter when the discoveries were made. The fact evolution exists means it always has, evolution didnt come into play the day it was discovered. So we are left with two things.... God told the authors the wrong info or the authors made it up. There is no other option, and either option puts religion at a real weakness.

I dont think people made it up and can understand why there reasoning was limited, take the world being flat, I know the world isnt flat, you know the world isnt flat but I can understand why people thought the world was flat.

right again you are missing the point entirely. If you don't think people made it up then how come they were wrong? Surely God didnt tell them the wrong info? He knows everything right? If they didnt make it up then how come dinosaur fossils have been found?

I dont think God got it wrong not that God wrote it mind but what your trying to get people 1000's of years ago to understand would be the modern equivelant to teaching primary school children quantum physics before you taught them basic math good luck with that. Though I think you know all of this

you have lost me again. So who do you ink wrote the bible? If it was just normal people then why have you based your life on what another normal man thinks, and has since been proven wrong? I completely understand that thousands of years ago people wouldn't have understood evolution and that's why the bible is wrong. You are currently trying to tell me that because you can see why people think the world was flat you are happy to continue to believe it and live your life by it even thou you now know it is not.


I dont think any are wrong I dont believe the bible is wrong or Darwin or any other scientific discovery is wrong its interesting that genesis has the order of creation is correct according to modern understanding of how the world was created. So I will ask you this with no scientific knowledge how did people get it right when Genesis was written without some insperation from God?

genesis didnt get it right, they got it spectacularly wrong. Genesis says man was the first thing on the planet, we since know this not to be true. Genesis says the world is 6000 years old, we now know that not to be true. Genesis says he created Adam in his own image, we know that not to be true as humans were evolved from apes. Are you suggesting God is an Ape?

You seem awfully confused, and I'm not trying to be condescending but please ink about what you are telling me. The bible is supposed to be written by people with divine intervention otherwise how would anyone know his said "let there be light" as there was no human there to see it, you follow? So when Darwin comes along and modern science it proves that the bible was made up, fabricated in someone's mind. The fact they didnt have modern science and e knowledge of evolution backs up MY point - not yours, as if they had the ear of God and god was telling them how it unfolds then why would he be wrong - he didnt need to wait for Darwin to discover evolution surely? Wouldn't he have created it in the first place?.

How you don't think I'm being sensible is beyond me. You have explained something and I've probed a little further and you see it as mocking? I suggested many posts ago this thread isn't for you and it seems I'm right. Your personal attacks are relentless yet your answers aren't. Ill happily debate with you and continue as I was doing, but if you are here to just be evasive and to abuse then you are no good here,

So ill ask again...

You have said the bible is wrong because scientist weren't around then. So in that case you either believe...

1. People just made it up and didnt have modern science so were spectacularly wrong, meaning the whole foundations of the bible are incorrect.

2. God told the people to write it and god the details wrong.

3. The bible is correct but Darwin, science and all the evidence is wrong.

THIS is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. You seem to be accepting the book was made up by people yet willing to base your life on it? I can somewhat understand if you thought it was the word of god written through people but then how would you explain it being proved to be wrong?

Answer nicely please, none of this mocking and pretending to know me malarkey.

answer nicely? ive tried that you didnt listen to anything I said or considered anything, so whats the point.

you seem to be confusing not agreeing with not listening. The point is is is a discussion, if you want to put your point across then do it nicely. If you don't, then don't post.

all your categories are wrong I dont fit into any of them

I believe what the bible says im also appreciative that it was written a very long time ago, where none of the scientific discoveries that you talk about were studied or discovered. I except that some of the arguments are allegorical not literal for example the story of creation mentioned 7 days and if you think of 7 different periods of time rather than 7 days literally God os still the creator of the world so the bible is true in a way that is compatiable with scientific theories of how the world evolved.

you are missing the point. It doesn't matter when the discoveries were made. The fact evolution exists means it always has, evolution didnt come into play the day it was discovered. So we are left with two things.... God told the authors the wrong info or the authors made it up. There is no other option, and either option puts religion at a real weakness.

I dont think people made it up and can understand why there reasoning was limited, take the world being flat, I know the world isnt flat, you know the world isnt flat but I can understand why people thought the world was flat.

right again you are missing the point entirely. If you don't think people made it up then how come they were wrong? Surely God didnt tell them the wrong info? He knows everything right? If they didnt make it up then how come dinosaur fossils have been found?

I dont think God got it wrong not that God wrote it mind but what your trying to get people 1000's of years ago to understand would be the modern equivelant to teaching primary school children quantum physics before you taught them basic math good luck with that. Though I think you know all of this

you have lost me again. So who do you ink wrote the bible? If it was just normal people then why have you based your life on what another normal man thinks, and has since been proven wrong? I completely understand that thousands of years ago people wouldn't have understood evolution and that's why the bible is wrong. You are currently trying to tell me that because you can see why people think the world was flat you are happy to continue to believe it and live your life by it even thou you now know it is not.


I dont think any are wrong I dont believe the bible is wrong or Darwin or any other scientific discovery is wrong its interesting that genesis has the order of creation is correct according to modern understanding of how the world was created. So I will ask you this with no scientific knowledge how did people get it right when Genesis was written without some insperation from God?

genesis didnt get it right, they got it spectacularly wrong. Genesis says man was the first thing on the planet, we since know this not to be true. Genesis says the world is 6000 years old, we now know that not to be true. Genesis says he created Adam in his own image, we know that not to be true as humans were evolved from apes. Are you suggesting God is an Ape?

You seem awfully confused, and I'm not trying to be condescending but please ink about what you are telling me. The bible is supposed to be written by people with divine intervention otherwise how would anyone know his said "let there be light" as there was no human there to see it, you follow? So when Darwin comes along and modern science it proves that the bible was made up, fabricated in someone's mind. The fact they didnt have modern science and e knowledge of evolution backs up MY point - not yours, as if they had the ear of God and god was telling them how it unfolds then why would he be wrong - he didnt need to wait for Darwin to discover evolution surely? Wouldn't he have created it in the first place?.

im not bothering anymore not because im wrong I know im right, according to the teachings of my church, you are not taking anything on board. I would suggest you study science ad religion better, I have studied both and am rather confident in my understanding of both.Its not my fault you cant understand it.

yes evolution has always existed but when the bible was written they had no understanding of evolution.
thats the third time ive told you that now. DO YOU UNDERSTAND. clearly not.

people thousands of years ago didnt know what I dinosaur was, im sure they collected fossils and these fossils would be considered as animals, animals were created before humans were on this planet. DO YOU UNDERSTAND. clearly not.

your 3rd paragraph completely contradicts everything else youve just said. In one question you ask why isnt evolution explained then you agree that people 1000's of years ago had no concept of evolution so make up your mind, should evolution be in the bible or not.

Genesis did get it right its scientifically accurate and no humans werent the first things on the planet plants and then animals (that would include the dinosaurs) so youve lost that one.

no one was around to listen God say let there be light? are you really trying to say some bloke must have documented the entire creation from the big bang onwards. God created light when he created it he would have said something along the lines of let there be light. He may not of said anything he may have clicked his fingers, did a belly flop into darkness I dont know wasnt there.

Darwin didnt prove the bible was wrong, he proved that evolution existed still fits into the creation story, we as humans evolved from animals, animals were on earth before humans.

we have free will and intelligence a gift from God that lets us explore the world, otherwise we would be mindless drones all with the same knowledge.

I should have stopped posting as soon as you turned up. Mocking my religious belief which at this point you are blatantly because now youve resorted to lying to reinforce your point. So I am now I will not respond to any of your posts.

im not bothering anymore not because im wrong I know im right, according to the teachings of my church, you are not taking anything on board. I would suggest you study science ad religion better, I have studied both and am rather confident in my understanding of both.Its not my fault you cant understand it.

so you know you are right but don't wish to say why?

Your viewpoint contradicts itself spectacularly I'm not sure how you can't see it. You say you believe the bible while acknowledging its wrong. It's staggering.

yes evolution has always existed but when the bible was written they had no understanding of evolution.
thats the third time ive told you that now. DO YOU UNDERSTAND. clearly not.

what?? Who didnt? The people who wrote it, wrote it from "the words of God", we have been through this... You are now faced with 2 options,,,

1. Clearly understanding that as a result of the inaccuracy of the bible, these guys made it up.

2. God told them but God didnt now about evolution himself... Even though he created everything perfectly.

Which one is it?


people thousands of years ago didnt know what I dinosaur was, im sure they collected fossils and these fossils would be considered as animals, animals were created before humans were on this planet. DO YOU UNDERSTAND. clearly not.

again, WHO didnt understand? Surely you can't be this thick?

You are refusing to admit that people made the bible up yet right? Well surely you understand that if Adam and Eve were the first ones made THEN WHO TOLD THE AUORS OF THE BIBLE ABOUT IT? The bible is Gods word.

So.... If the Bible is Gods word then it doesn't matter if the authors had heard about dinosaurs or evolution before, they are merely writing the things God had told them correct?

Now do you understand?

your 3rd paragraph completely contradicts everything else youve just said. In one question you ask why isnt evolution explained then you agree that people 1000's of years ago had no concept of evolution so make up your mind, should evolution be in the bible or not.

oh my word. Are you winding me up? Surely you are,

I've not asked why isn't evolution explained, the fact that's what you think I'm saying is incredible and shows you have no knowledge of the bible what so ever. THE FACT EVOLUTION EXISTS MEANS THE STORY OF GENESIS IS WRONG. It has nothing to do with the fact is was left out of the bible, the fact it was left out and has a completely different route to how man came about means it incorrect.

Understand?


Genesis did get it right its scientifically accurate and no humans werent the first things on the planet plants and then animals (that would include the dinosaurs) so youve lost that one.

again you glaringly miss the point. If animals, including humans, were created on the same day then how come humans didnt roam the earth until dinosaurs had lived for millions if years before becoming extinct? Not to mention 230 million years before the bible claimed it created them (6000 years ago).

It has been proved scientifically that if the life span of the earth was squeezed into a Callander year then the amount of time humans would have been alive for is 2 seconds. This contradicts everything the bible tells us... Remember this is gods word, so he was wrong essentially.... Or of course people just made it up.

no one was around to listen God say let there be light? are you really trying to say some bloke must have documented the entire creation from the big bang onwards. God created light when he created it he would have said something along the lines of let there be light. He may not of said anything he may have clicked his fingers, did a belly flop into darkness I dont know wasnt there.

so now you agree humans mad the bible up? As you say nobody could possibly know what happened right?

Darwin didnt prove the bible was wrong, he proved that evolution existed still fits into the creation story, we as humans evolved from animals, animals were on earth before humans.

adam and eve were the first humans created, yet humans evolved from apes over millions of years. If god made everything perfectly then why do things need to evolve?

You have not thought this through have you?

we have free will and intelligence a gift from God that lets us explore the world, otherwise we would be mindless drones all with the same knowledge.

I should have stopped posting as soon as you turned up. Mocking my religious belief which at this point you are blatantly because now youve resorted to lying to reinforce your point. So I am now I will not respond to any of your posts.

you have succeeded in giving Christians a bad name and made a complete pigs ear out of your religion. You clearly have no idea what you believe, what the bible is about and what sciences impact has had on it. Not to mention your ridiculous "if you question me you are mocking me" stance. You seem like a kid probably around 17 years old who has barely read a page of the bible and thinks he's a Christian coz he went a few times with mum and dad.

I told you this thread wasn't for you and I was right, do some research and if you are still a Christian maybe you can answer some of my questions. Until then you aren't doing Christians any favours by your ridiculous answers

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

would love for you to explain how im weak. Go on insult me all you want

nothing personal pal, i have my beliefs about things just like you do

I don't trust scientists either, mind.

For example - Scientists are experts on what happened 4.5 billion years ago, but ask them what the weather is going to do tomorrow and they more often than not get it wrong.

A bit like some Xian prophecies - if its vague and impossible to verify one way or another, they are great - but ask them to prophecy about something which we can test, and they are hopeless.

I don't trust either Charismatic Xians or Scientists

I don't trust scientists either, mind.

For example - Scientists are experts on what happened 4.5 billion years ago, but ask them what the weather is going to do tomorrow and they more often than not get it wrong.

A bit like some Xian prophecies - if its vague and impossible to verify one way or another, they are great - but ask them to prophecy about something which we can test, and they are hopeless.

I don't trust either Charismatic Xians or Scientists

Are you confusing scientists with meteorologists? Weather men as it were, give the weather forecast in terms of probability. If there is 75% chance of rain they will say it is rainy tomorrow and so on and so forth, nature is unpredictable and what looks likely one minute can change the next. But the study of weather and technology has certainly given us a good indication of future events.

However that has nothing to do with this thread

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

Because the Bible says as much and the Bible has never let me or millions of others down.

Regardless, something has had to have always existed. God is actually the most logical solution when you realise that.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Corinthians. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


I can find more if you like?

Paxman you really are not going to believe anything these guys say. You pulling a random passage from the Bible and then trying to make it stand on it's own with no context is beneath even you.

Guys there is no point in disscussing this with Paxman, he will not stop, he will not conceede even when wrong. He says he is serious but his whole personality is based on a lie. That is why the moment he entered this thread it was over.

He will have the last word even if he has to post 1,213 times in an hour to do so.

I gave up with him and Chuckles a long time ago when it become obvious they hadn't read the thread and weren't prepared to debate, only to spout their own agendas.

I hate Religion ! It has brought more death to humanity than any other thing & has done for 100s of years & is still doing it now.

Not true. The evil actions of men brings death to humanity, some of which hide behind a religion, some of which don't.

Suprised any City fan can make general judgements given the hooligan reputation we've carried due to the action of a minority of idiots.

The day religion gets abolished, is the day the human race can move on.

Move on to what? An amoral state with a tonne of depressed people, which we're already heading towards....

Utter bollocks, do we need religion to be moral? No. Do we need religion to be good people? No. Do we need religion to change peoples lives? No.

I'm very close minded and stubborn on this issue, I've got to the stage where I don't care if I offend people, obviously I'll try not to. But I'm just fed up of something which was clearly invented to control people.

You need the standard of a higher power to actually know what being moral/good is. If you disagree, tell me how you know what makes something good or bad.

I have a relationship with God, I can tell you it is not an invention and it doesn't control people. Don't you realise the early Christian Church started under threat of death from the governing powers yet grew at a rate anyone would be astonished by.

Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.

Christianity began under severe perseuction from the governing bodies who tried to stamp it out by executing believers. people may have used religion for their own evil purposes but please don't generalise when 99% of believers have real experiences of God and come from it determined to do good.

I don't trust scientists either, mind.

For example - Scientists are experts on what happened 4.5 billion years ago, but ask them what the weather is going to do tomorrow and they more often than not get it wrong.

A bit like some Xian prophecies - if its vague and impossible to verify one way or another, they are great - but ask them to prophecy about something which we can test, and they are hopeless.

I don't trust either Charismatic Xians or Scientists

Science is very closed minded right now. Anyone with a different opinion is shut out like, for example, in Global Warming studies.

They can't be experts on what happened 4.5 billion years ago because we weren't there. The evidence for our origins is the same, some interpret it based on Christian presuppositions and others interpret it based on other presupps. There are a lot of doubts regarding an old earth theory which are not being addressed! They just say, let's wait and it'll get worked out, instead of looking at alternatives.

Yet again, Science will end up agreeing with the Bible just like they did with the shape of earth, the expansion of the universe and whether the universe had a beginning.

[quote="CraigMc} Religion is a load of bollocks, created to make the people at the top wealthy, and keeps going because the weak get sucked in because they cant face life without someone to make decisions for them.[/quote]

You clearly have no understanding of faith, try visiting a good local Church!

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Corinthians. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


I can find more if you like?

Paxman you really are not going to believe anything these guys say. You pulling a random passage from the Bible and then trying to make it stand on it's own with no context is beneath even you.

Guys there is no point in disscussing this with Paxman, he will not stop, he will not conceede even when wrong. He says he is serious but his whole personality is based on a lie. That is why the moment he entered this thread it was over.

He will have the last word even if he has to post 1,213 times in an hour to do so.

I gave up with him and Chuckles a long time ago when it become obvious they hadn't read the thread and weren't prepared to debate, only to spout their own agendas.

Same here, still think they're the same person, i tried with El Paxo but i fear he's genuinely nuts or at the very least, afflicted with one personality disorder, Him claiming a question of the sun rising wasn't philisophical, clinched the deal, the weird thing is, he probably needs religion more than anyone else here.