RELIGION?

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

Exactly, good answer.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

But why does somebody have to have created it?

Yes I understand what you are saying with regards to nobody knows. But what we can do is disprove what someone has tried to say THEY know. We know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and we know that Adam and Eve weren't the first living things created which the bible says.

The fact nobody knows means we can literally say anything and it be just as likely as another thing. So my theory of a hot dog ruling the universe is just as likely to be true as Christianity. Yet you would think I was mad to live my life under my hot dogs commandments of only eating mustard and sleeping in a bread bun right? Then why is Christianity an accepted religion which involves a horned flying beast, a talking snake and and a guy that can walk on water and turn water into wine?

I find it incredibly sad that people's lives are run and often ruined by a notion created by the mind of man.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

But why does somebody have to have created it?

Yes I understand what you are saying with regards to nobody knows. But what we can do is disprove what someone has tried to say THEY know. We know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and we know that Adam and Eve weren't the first living things created which the bible says.

The fact nobody knows means we can literally say anything and it be just as likely as another thing. So my theory of a hot dog ruling the universe is just as likely to be true as Christianity. Yet you would think I was mad to live my life under my hot dogs commandments of only eating mustard and sleeping in a bread bun right? Then why is Christianity an accepted religion which involves a horned flying beast, a talking snake and and a guy that can walk on water and turn water into wine?

I find it incredibly sad that people's lives are run and often ruined by a notion created by the mind of man.

I think the simplest answer is to assume somebody created the universe as science can't answer why it all started and what was there before. It's this lack of answers that drives the belief of a higher being. I also think many religious writings are symbolic as opposed to being taken literally.

I'm not religious but I have no doubt the Jesus existed. It's the son of god bit I'm not so sure about. But clearly something triggered a belief in people at the time that has led to the spread of Christianity around the world. Probably a lot more fact and/ or anecdotal evidence than your hot dog theory. But then if you shout it loud enough and people start to listen, who knows in 100 years you may have been the catalyst to a new religion.

I also have no doubt that religion has been abused since day one to control people through fear. From human sacrifce on the alters to a sun god to the muslim suicide bombers today, people weild religious power to control. The fact that it is often the cause of conflict and misery is, IMO, one of life's great ironies.

Still doesn't mean there isn't a god though.

Because God is the only possible cause.

How do you know?

Universal, unchanging and immaterial laws can only be accounted for by a universal, unchanging, immaterial being who is eternal.

God is those things.

How do you know any of that can only be accounted for by a universal, unchanging, immaterial being who is eternal?

Creator cannot create beyond it's own capabilities.

Eternal because to create anything in the universe you had to be there beforehand.

Who created the creator?

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

This is dumb when you realise that the Old Testament is a history book which has never been contradicted and often supported by historical and archaelogical evidence.

Also the Bible clearly states the world was round in isaiah 40:22.

Plus the New testament is one of the most historically accurate books in history.

But you don't want to acknowledge that so you'll maybe up silly arguments to cover it.

I don't give a crap what the Bible states just like I don't give a crap what The Sun states. They're both full of over exaggerated lies and nonsense based on hearsay. Without being there at the exact time its impossible to pin point what is true or not because it is all secondary evidence.

This must be true because its in the Bible and the Bible would never lie to us would it? Cry me a river Legolas.

If you don't give a crap about it, why read this thread and why maintain opinions about it.

The Bible was written by people who were there.

Give me one lie that's in the Bible, Good Luck!

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

But why does somebody have to have created it?

Yes I understand what you are saying with regards to nobody knows. But what we can do is disprove what someone has tried to say THEY know. We know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and we know that Adam and Eve weren't the first living things created which the bible says.

The fact nobody knows means we can literally say anything and it be just as likely as another thing. So my theory of a hot dog ruling the universe is just as likely to be true as Christianity. Yet you would think I was mad to live my life under my hot dogs commandments of only eating mustard and sleeping in a bread bun right? Then why is Christianity an accepted religion which involves a horned flying beast, a talking snake and and a guy that can walk on water and turn water into wine?

I find it incredibly sad that people's lives are run and often ruined by a notion created by the mind of man.

I think the simplest answer is to assume somebody created the universe as science can't answer why it all started and what was there before. It's this lack of answers that drives the belief of a higher being. I also think many religious writings are symbolic as opposed to being taken literally.

I'm not religious but I have no doubt the Jesus existed. It's the son of god bit I'm not so sure about. But clearly something triggered a belief in people at the time that has led to the spread of Christianity around the world. Probably a lot more fact and/ or anecdotal evidence than your hot dog theory. But then if you shout it loud enough and people start to listen, who knows in 100 years you may have been the catalyst to a new religion.

I also have no doubt that religion has been abused since day one to control people through fear. From human sacrifce on the alters to a sun god to the muslim suicide bombers today, people weild religious power to control. The fact that it is often the cause of conflict and misery is, IMO, one of life's great ironies.

Still doesn't mean there isn't a god though.

I'd agree with that in fairness.

Although I'd disagree about the factual bit. I don't think there is any factual evidence to go along with Christianity. I can prove parts of the bible wrong on my own let alone use a scientist. However nobody could prove my hot dog theory wrong or any part of it.

There were many historical journalists around at the time that "Jesus" supposedly lived yet he wasn't written about once. The only one that mentioned Jesus Christ has been proved to be a forgery. A man walking around creating miracles would have been pretty big news I'd have thought - yet nothing.

This is dumb when you realise that the Old Testament is a history book which has never been contradicted and often supported by historical and archaelogical evidence.

Also the Bible clearly states the world was round in isaiah 40:22.

Plus the New testament is one of the most historically accurate books in history.

But you don't want to acknowledge that so you'll maybe up silly arguments to cover it.

I don't give a crap what the Bible states just like I don't give a crap what The Sun states. They're both full of over exaggerated lies and nonsense based on hearsay. Without being there at the exact time its impossible to pin point what is true or not because it is all secondary evidence.

This must be true because its in the Bible and the Bible would never lie to us would it? Cry me a river Legolas.

If you don't give a crap about it, why read this thread and why maintain opinions about it.

The Bible was written by people who were there.

Give me one lie that's in the Bible, Good Luck!

It says that the earth is only 6000 years old and that god man man on the sixth day.

By the way the bible is a selection of bits written by different people and vetted by a group, only certain things were allowed in. It's an amalgamation fantasy tale.

Last edited by Paxman on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

But why does somebody have to have created it?

Yes I understand what you are saying with regards to nobody knows. But what we can do is disprove what someone has tried to say THEY know. We know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and we know that Adam and Eve weren't the first living things created which the bible says.

The fact nobody knows means we can literally say anything and it be just as likely as another thing. So my theory of a hot dog ruling the universe is just as likely to be true as Christianity. Yet you would think I was mad to live my life under my hot dogs commandments of only eating mustard and sleeping in a bread bun right? Then why is Christianity an accepted religion which involves a horned flying beast, a talking snake and and a guy that can walk on water and turn water into wine?

I find it incredibly sad that people's lives are run and often ruined by a notion created by the mind of man.

I think the simplest answer is to assume somebody created the universe as science can't answer why it all started and what was there before. It's this lack of answers that drives the belief of a higher being. I also think many religious writings are symbolic as opposed to being taken literally.

I'm not religious but I have no doubt the Jesus existed. It's the son of god bit I'm not so sure about. But clearly something triggered a belief in people at the time that has led to the spread of Christianity around the world. Probably a lot more fact and/ or anecdotal evidence than your hot dog theory. But then if you shout it loud enough and people start to listen, who knows in 100 years you may have been the catalyst to a new religion.

I also have no doubt that religion has been abused since day one to control people through fear. From human sacrifce on the alters to a sun god to the muslim suicide bombers today, people weild religious power to control. The fact that it is often the cause of conflict and misery is, IMO, one of life's great ironies.

Still doesn't mean there isn't a god though.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

1) do you believe the world is only 6,000 years old? If so how do you explain scientific proof of things on the earth prior to that. I.e dinosaur fossils, rock formations etc

I believe so, yes. Though Christians are divided over this issue. Easy, a Global Flood caused a lot of what we see as 'millions of years' evidence. The compression those fossils suffered was unreal and it's proven it would make things look a LOT older than they are.

Radiometric dating techniques are incredibly inconsistent and are based on assumptions, many of which are proven to be untrue.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ting-prove

2) do you not believe in darwins theory of evolution? If so then how do you feel when met with factual evidence of evolution in the animal kingdom?

I believe in micro evolution, animal variation within types etc. Macro evolution is literally guesswork and heavy assumption from people who don't want the reality of God in this area. There is no evidence aside from heavily flawed evidence. Evidence is neutral most of the time anyway, it's peoples different presuppositions which form their interpretation. Hence, so much disagreement.

3) if god created everything and his love is for all, then why did he create such things as AIDS and cancer?

God didn't create those things, we corrupted the world through sin.

4) surely anyone willing to devote their life to a religion would do a bit of historical research considering there are no historically valued documents saying that anyone has ever seen or heard God. You would then realise that there are hundreds upon hundreds of religions created BEFORE Christianity that had the following similarities from their "Jesus"

- virgin birth
- born December 25th
- 12 desciples
- walked around performing miracles
- sold out by friend
- crucified
- layed to rest for 3 days
- resurrected

Love to see some solid evidence of this, most of the stuff I've seen is far from convincing. You are just peddling nice sounding arguments you've heard. Read the excellent posts just above.

5) don't you think it's far more likely that the Christian religion is a Mayan astrological story anthropomorphised in order to give the characters life and then used by the church (government) to exercise control over its people. Read about the crusades?[/quote]

No, read the excellent posts just above.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

The beauty of faith is that you have no doubts. Irrespective of what seems compelling proof to others.

That's fine. I'm not saying any different. I've asked some questions as he said we could.

Faith is one thing, ignoring compelling evidence is another. Can you imagine if we had judges throwing out scientific evidence and DNA proof of murderers and rapists simply by saying "I don't believe he did it". There would be uproar and rightly so.

When I was 8 years old, I had complete faith in Santa Claus. Although it was a nice feeling at the time the harsh reality needed to be faced up to.

I love the thought of religion and I love the message most of it preaches. I just don't understand why people need a religion to be nice, just be nice.

Because people wonder, 'why be nice?' and so many choose to be selfish instead. Why not if there is no reason otherwise?

You might say to be a decent person. but how can you be decent if there is no definite morality, which is the case without God.

Paxman is right. Totally spot on.

I notice some of you argue his claims, yet cannot answer any of his simple questions.

Says a lot.

We've had around 11 pages where all of this has been discussed already. He couldn't be bothered to read it and obviously neither could you.

The beauty of faith is that you have no doubts. Irrespective of what seems compelling proof to others.

That's fine. I'm not saying any different. I've asked some questions as he said we could.

Faith is one thing, ignoring compelling evidence is another. Can you imagine if we had judges throwing out scientific evidence and DNA proof of murderers and rapists simply by saying "I don't believe he did it". There would be uproar and rightly so.

When I was 8 years old, I had complete faith in Santa Claus. Although it was a nice feeling at the time the harsh reality needed to be faced up to.

I love the thought of religion and I love the message most of it preaches. I just don't understand why people need a religion to be nice, just be nice.

Another thing.

If I was born in a remote place where there were no inhabitants apart from me and my mother. If my mother died when I was 4 or 5 and I lived the rest of my life alone in the wilderness then how would I know about God and Jesus? I wouldn't. You can't believe in what you don't know. So would I go to hell?

People only chose to become Christians because of what others say. The fact you aren't born a believer tells you all you need to know.

Romans 1:18-20 - everyone knows God exists. Funny how every lonely tribe worships a god, mostly the Christian God.

Why are you going on about aler-egos? I'm not Paxman, as I'm sure many of the members here will testify, seeing as they've met me in person.

Fair enough you just seemed to back him irrationally because There is a massive flaw in his view that science and religion are adversarial foes. Can you not see it?

Appologies. Although he does have alter -egos here doesn't he? Has anyone ever met him perhaps he's your alter-ego

Religion and Any ideas of this almighty God is a load of bollocks in my eyes - the questions Paxman asks are all about proving the myths wrong.

I notice that many have argued that he's wrong, yet still cannot answer his questions.

Your opinion. Questions already been answers. You're only talking to about two or three people out of many who have participated in this thread. But then this is your style isn't it, to make gaping assumptions to suit your own agenda.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

Read my first post and the first page and I covered faith.

What did create those conditions then? It's amazing how we exist in the only relatively tiny space where life can exist. The chances that this all wasn't intelligently designed is so small that it's laughable.

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

Read my first post and the first page and I covered faith, along with many more of your 'questions' later on.

What did create those conditions then? It's amazing how we exist in the only relatively tiny space where life can exist. The chances that this all wasn't intelligently designed is so small that it's laughable.

1) do you believe the world is only 6,000 years old? If so how do you explain scientific proof of things on the earth prior to that. I.e dinosaur fossils, rock formations etc

I believe so, yes. Though Christians are divided over this issue. Easy, a Global Flood caused a lot of what we see as 'millions of years' evidence. The compression those fossils suffered was unreal and it's proven it would make things look a LOT older than they are.

Radiometric dating techniques are incredibly inconsistent and are based on assumptions, many of which are proven to be untrue.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... ting-prove

The evidence against a recent creation is overwhelming. The accepted age of the Earth is about 4.54 billion years, while the entire universe is around 13.77 billion years. These ages weren't just made up. They were devised from a range of experiments and observations made across multiple disciplines of science such as astronomy, geology, biology, palaeontology, chemistry, geomorphology and physics. Christians, however, ignore these in favor of pseudoscience and their biblically based view that the world was created by magic.


2) do you not believe in darwins theory of evolution? If so then how do you feel when met with factual evidence of evolution in the animal kingdom?

I believe in micro evolution, animal variation within types etc. Macro evolution is literally guesswork and heavy assumption from people who don't want the reality of God in this area. There is no evidence aside from heavily flawed evidence. Evidence is neutral most of the time anyway, it's peoples different presuppositions which form their interpretation. Hence, so much disagreement.

there is no believe, evolution is happening in front of our eyes. Not to mention again the overwhelming evidence to prove it. The fossil record shows that the simplest fossils will be found in the oldest rocks, and it can also show a smooth and gradual transition from one form of life to another.

Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is one happening in front of our eyes. Bacteria colonies can only build up a resistance to antibiotics through evolution. It is important to note that in every colony of bacteria, there are a tiny few individuals which are naturally resistant to certain antibiotics. This is because of the random nature of mutations.

When an antibiotic is applied, the initial innoculation will kill most bacteria, leaving behind only those few cells which happen to have the mutations necessary to resist the antibiotics. In subsequent generations, the resistant bacteria reproduce, forming a new colony where every member is resistant to the antibiotic. This is natural selection in action. The antibiotic is "selecting" for organisms which are resistant, and killing any that are not.

Elephants have started to lose their tusks. 5% to 10% of the elephant population are now tusk less and one African park claims that nearly 40% of its elephants are now tusk less.

There are countless examples of this.



3) if god created everything and his love is for all, then why did he create such things as AIDS and cancer?

God didn't create those things, we corrupted the world through sin.

so you are telling me if I murder someone then I will create a new disease to kill innocent people out of thin air?

4) surely anyone willing to devote their life to a religion would do a bit of historical research considering there are no historically valued documents saying that anyone has ever seen or heard God. You would then realise that there are hundreds upon hundreds of religions created BEFORE Christianity that had the following similarities from their "Jesus"

- virgin birth
- born December 25th
- 12 desciples
- walked around performing miracles
- sold out by friend
- crucified
- layed to rest for 3 days
- resurrected

Love to see some solid evidence of this, most of the stuff I've seen is far from convincing. You are just peddling nice sounding arguments you've heard. Read the excellent posts just above.

and you discovered Christianity I guess? Or are you "peddling stuff you have heard". The hypocrisy there is astounding. Anyway, what proof would you like? Ill happily provide it.

5) don't you think it's far more likely that the Christian religion is a Mayan astrological story anthropomorphised in order to give the characters life and then used by the church (government) to exercise control over its people. Read about the crusades?

No, read the excellent posts just above.[/quote]

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

Read my first post and the first page and I covered faith, along with many more of your 'questions' later on.

What did create those conditions then? It's amazing how we exist in the only relatively tiny space where life can exist. The chances that this all wasn't intelligently designed is so small that it's laughable.

No idea but the notion that someone has to create something is ridiculous, who created God?

If the universe was squeezed into the size of the earth the earth would be the size if an atom. To think there wouldn't be life in that whole space is a ridiculous notion. So no I don't find it incredible at all.

Another thing.

If I was born in a remote place where there were no inhabitants apart from me and my mother. If my mother died when I was 4 or 5 and I lived the rest of my life alone in the wilderness then how would I know about God and Jesus? I wouldn't. You can't believe in what you don't know. So would I go to hell?

People only chose to become Christians because of what others say. The fact you aren't born a believer tells you all you need to know.

Romans 1:18-20 - everyone knows God exists. Funny how every lonely tribe worships a god, mostly the Christian God.

You just made that up, absolutely ridiculous response.

The beauty of faith is that you have no doubts. Irrespective of what seems compelling proof to others.

That's fine. I'm not saying any different. I've asked some questions as he said we could.

Faith is one thing, ignoring compelling evidence is another. Can you imagine if we had judges throwing out scientific evidence and DNA proof of murderers and rapists simply by saying "I don't believe he did it". There would be uproar and rightly so.

When I was 8 years old, I had complete faith in Santa Claus. Although it was a nice feeling at the time the harsh reality needed to be faced up to.

I love the thought of religion and I love the message most of it preaches. I just don't understand why people need a religion to be nice, just be nice.

Because people wonder, 'why be nice?' and so many choose to be selfish instead. Why not if there is no reason otherwise?

You might say to be a decent person. but how can you be decent if there is no definite morality, which is the case without God.

I'm flabbergasted that you think without god I wouldn't know what is right or wrong

Are you suggesting before Christ nobody knew the difference?

The answer is you don't know whats right or wrong. The way you are brought up determines that. If I had a pet dog and allowed him to chew my slippers then he wouldn't see it as wrong, if I told him off when he did it he would know it is wrong. But I'm sure there isn't a "thy should not chew slippers" commandment.

I think humans have a biological need for religion, perhaps implanted by our creator, It stops us going mad and helps people make better moral choices. Look at paxman eating his own soul here daily, hardly a poster boy for atheism. The Bible and quran offer excellent guides on how to live ones life, far better than the self help books.

The clever ones don't need a book to live their lives nicely, they just do it.

Doesn't the bible convey homophobia? Hardly a nice example to follow is it,

Okay, firstly the Bible actually says to love all people no matter who they are or what they do.

Secondly, how do you know what is nice and not nice?

Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Corinthians. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


I can find more if you like?

It may well be that none of the recognised religions in the world, past or present are based on a god that exists. That doesn't mean to say there isn't a god though. It a continual circle though, if there isn't a god then who made the universe etc? If there is a god then how did he come about?

Nobody has the answers and probably never will, hence those of a religious persuasion call it faith.

But it's faith in nothing. It's a complete stab in the dark. A bit like saying I believe there's a giant hot dog who rules the universe and created us all and then devoting my life to it. The fact there's hundreds of religions, all sorts of gods and all sorts of theories show that humans have a need to belong to a higher being and thus create deities. This has been going on for far longer than Christianity.

Life can be created when certain conditions allow it to be. A being doesn't have to create those things, it's ridiculous to think so.

The earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old yet humans have only inhabited it for a a tiny fraction of that time. If the earths whole lifespan was compressed into one calendar year then the amount of time that humans have been on the planet would be less than 2 seconds.

For people to believe in a God is unfathomable to me, for them to assume its a human is just plain ignorance.

It's your opinion that you can't possibly prove either way. And yes god may not be human, but there may well be a god. He may have existed but now 'died'. He may be working on other projects or busy playing around with us. Nobody knows.
Life exists when certain conditions allow it to be? But then who created the conditions? What made the elements that have to combine to make life? The universe had to be created in the first place - why did it happen and what was there before?

Again nobody knows, so you form your own opinions and stand by what you believe.

But why does somebody have to have created it?

Yes I understand what you are saying with regards to nobody knows. But what we can do is disprove what someone has tried to say THEY know. We know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and we know that Adam and Eve weren't the first living things created which the bible says.

The fact nobody knows means we can literally say anything and it be just as likely as another thing. So my theory of a hot dog ruling the universe is just as likely to be true as Christianity. Yet you would think I was mad to live my life under my hot dogs commandments of only eating mustard and sleeping in a bread bun right? Then why is Christianity an accepted religion which involves a horned flying beast, a talking snake and and a guy that can walk on water and turn water into wine?

I find it incredibly sad that people's lives are run and often ruined by a notion created by the mind of man.

I think the simplest answer is to assume somebody created the universe as science can't answer why it all started and what was there before. It's this lack of answers that drives the belief of a higher being. I also think many religious writings are symbolic as opposed to being taken literally.

I'm not religious but I have no doubt the Jesus existed. It's the son of god bit I'm not so sure about. But clearly something triggered a belief in people at the time that has led to the spread of Christianity around the world. Probably a lot more fact and/ or anecdotal evidence than your hot dog theory. But then if you shout it loud enough and people start to listen, who knows in 100 years you may have been the catalyst to a new religion.

I also have no doubt that religion has been abused since day one to control people through fear. From human sacrifce on the alters to a sun god to the muslim suicide bombers today, people weild religious power to control. The fact that it is often the cause of conflict and misery is, IMO, one of life's great ironies.

Still doesn't mean there isn't a god though.

I'd agree with that in fairness.

Although I'd disagree about the factual bit. I don't think there is any factual evidence to go along with Christianity. I can prove parts of the bible wrong on my own let alone use a scientist. However nobody could prove my hot dog theory wrong or any part of it.

There were many historical journalists around at the time that "Jesus" supposedly lived yet he wasn't written about once. The only one that mentioned Jesus Christ has been proved to be a forgery. A man walking around creating miracles would have been pretty big news I'd have thought - yet nothing.

I must admit I think that many, if not all, of the 'miracles' are simply stories distorted and exaggerated over time. It's a human trait that will never change

Only things that begin to exist need a cause. God has always existed.

How do you know that? Have you always existed alongside him or are you just believing what you've been told about it?

I must admit I think that many, if not all, of the 'miracles' are simply stories distorted and exaggerated over time. It's a human trait that will never change

I'd agree with that too. If not completely fabricated then heavily embellished over time.

Spirituality I can understand, finding peace with yourself and the world I can understand, paganism I can understand - but when people talk about magic and making ridiculous excuses for things staring you in the face is just beyond comprehension, I think people at that level are too far gone and logic goes out the window.

The earth is 4.5 billion years old and someone is saying its only 6,000 but everything now seems older than it is because of a flood.... 4.4999 billion years older? Really? It's just pure fantasy.

Modern Science is starting to accept that some of the miricles were possible in certain conditions, there's one story about a monk who lived under a date tree in the desert for 20 or 40 years(can't remember) it was said he only lived on the dates that fell from the tree, this was discredited for decades, yet now nutritionists claim it's possible due to the oils and acids found in dates.

Nice little tale for you all, eat dates