FAO taffyapple

Languages evolve and it so happens to be the case that in this modern age that multiculturalism has had an influence of the evolution of our current English language in some areas. There is no problem with that whatsoever. If anything it increases diversity. When I go to Manchester and my cousin will say a word I don't know what it means because its used by the younger generations up there its intriguing. At the end of the day, the language you have spoke all of your life was an evolved form of English so its a bit wrong to say 'speak flob, Somali' to us younger lot as we are just using a naturally evolving language.

Now how would you feel about using Shakespearean English?

Above, you mock 'Willys'" grasp of language with sentence/paragraph construction
a 14 year old would be embarrassed by. As you surely know. A lack of writing
skills is linked to a lack of reading skills. Its something you are obviously aware of and
try to mask by using 'academic' words... but often in the wrong context or situation in
a paragraph

As for your good Muslim friend. Simples.

The VERY FIRST word in the Q'uran is 'peace'

Anjem Choudary uses the Q'uran to advocate mass murder, bigotry and sexism. Ask your
Muslim buddy why there is no Fatwah out on him for misrepresenting Islam.

Then ask him why Rushdie, a gentle author, a devout Muslim has lived in fear of his life for questioning
a theory (paganism in an early form of the Q'uran) related to a book he lived his life by.

Your answer does not hold water. If I presented you with a mathematical challenge I'm
pretty sure you'd be on the nail. But reading and writing is not your forte.

so getting involved in the analysis of ANY book is perhaps best left to others

Above, you mock 'Willys'" grasp of language with sentence/paragraph construction
a 14 year old would be embarrassed by. As you surely know. A lack of writing
skills is linked to a lack of reading skills. Its something you are obviously aware of and
try to mask by using 'academic' words... but often in the wrong context or situation in
a paragraph

So you avoid the real core of this debate and instead you twist it into some English grammar school argument? Honestly, you couldn't make this up. For a guy who is more than double my age you truly are astounding.

I would like to point out that this is a forum, not an assessment centre. Your friend Willy The Wombat pointed out the differences in languages so therefore I addressed his point and referred to case in point 'the effects of multiculturalism on languages today'. Surely not hard to grasp?

At no point did I mock William Shakespeare's English. I just made the simple point that whilst the younger generation of today may not strictly speak the same 'version' of English as you did 40 years ago nor do you speak the same 'version' of English that they spoke many years before. The reference to William Shakespeare was no more than a mere example of a language that went before your years.

That is all I have to say on that matter.

As for your good Muslim friend. Simples.

What is simple? You've made no attempt to come to a conclusion on this issue. You have just made a worthless statement to try and mask over things. Would you be a great politician? Probably, but then again, they are notorious for wriggling out of situations like this by smearing bullshit all over the place. You'd fit in well.

The VERY FIRST word in the Q'uran is 'peace'

Read the rest of it then and stop being so ignorant. The very first word of Harry Potter is 'Mr.' but that doesn't tell the full story does it? Neither does the first word of the Q'uran.

Anjem Choudary uses the Q'uran to advocate mass murder, bigotry and sexism. Ask your
Muslim buddy why there is no Fatwah out on him for misrepresenting Islam.

I have given you the opportunity to contact me and I'll put you in direct contact with a Muslim friend of mine so that you can be educated on such issues. The point is, why should they? Honestly. Why are you, as a white British member of society, not out for the EDL condemning them? Again, answers on a postcard please.

Then ask him why Rushdie, a gentle author, a devout Muslim has lived in fear of his life for questioning
a theory (paganism in an early form of the Q'uran) related to a book he lived his life by.

Refer to above.

Your answer does not hold water.

Your entire viewpoint is laughable because it is clear to anyone that you are trying to mask over your bigotry by trying to twist two cases that have happened in the Muslim community against one another. You are trying to brandish an entire section of the British community bad on the basis that they won't speak out against an extremist that has no direct link to them personally. The only link in their religion is between them, their God and prophets.

Also, maybe you should ask the media platforms why they are giving such an extremist a platform to make such controversial and offensive speeches. I doubt you have done that. For someone so offended by his presence you seem to have done sod all to try and get him deported.

If I presented you with a mathematical challenge I'm pretty sure you'd be on the nail. But reading and writing is not your forte.

Cut the crap and get on point. You know nothing about my educational background, strengths, weaknesses and again this is another poor attempt to twist an argument and point score.

so getting involved in the analysis of ANY book is perhaps best left to others

Laughable and yet again another presumption. I wonder which part of my educational background you are going to decipher and use against me next to try and win this debate. Maybe I should start a new thread with a poll.

And that concludes proceeding for today folks, be sure to join the same time tomorrow. Goodbye!

Above, you mock 'Willys'" grasp of language with sentence/paragraph construction
a 14 year old would be embarrassed by. As you surely know. A lack of writing
skills is linked to a lack of reading skills. Its something you are obviously aware of and
try to mask by using 'academic' words... but often in the wrong context or situation in
a paragraph

So you avoid the real core of this debate and instead you twist it into some English grammar school argument? Honestly, you couldn't make this up. For a guy who is more than double my age you truly are astounding.

I would like to point out that this is a forum, not an assessment centre. Your friend Willy The Wombat pointed out the differences in languages so therefore I addressed his point and referred to case in point 'the effects of multiculturalism on languages today'. Surely not hard to grasp?

At no point did I mock William Shakespeare's English. I just made the simple point that whilst the younger generation of today may not strictly speak the same 'version' of English as you did 40 years ago nor do you speak the same 'version' of English that they spoke many years before. The reference to William Shakespeare was no more than a mere example of a language that went before your years.

That is all I have to say on that matter.

As for your good Muslim friend. Simples.

What is simple? You've made no attempt to come to a conclusion on this issue. You have just made a worthless statement to try and mask over things. Would you be a great politician? Probably, but then again, they are notorious for wriggling out of situations like this by smearing bullshit all over the place. You'd fit in well.

The VERY FIRST word in the Q'uran is 'peace'

Read the rest of it then and stop being so ignorant. The very first word of Harry Potter is 'Mr.' but that doesn't tell the full story does it? Neither does the first word of the Q'uran.

Anjem Choudary uses the Q'uran to advocate mass murder, bigotry and sexism. Ask your
Muslim buddy why there is no Fatwah out on him for misrepresenting Islam.

I have given you the opportunity to contact me and I'll put you in direct contact with a Muslim friend of mine so that you can be educated on such issues. The point is, why should they? Honestly. Why are you, as a white British member of society, not out for the EDL condemning them? Again, answers on a postcard please.

Then ask him why Rushdie, a gentle author, a devout Muslim has lived in fear of his life for questioning
a theory (paganism in an early form of the Q'uran) related to a book he lived his life by.

Refer to above.

Your answer does not hold water.

Your entire viewpoint is laughable because it is clear to anyone that you are trying to mask over your bigotry by trying to twist two cases that have happened in the Muslim community against one another. You are trying to brandish an entire section of the British community bad on the basis that they won't speak out against an extremist that has no direct link to them personally. The only link in their religion is between them, their God and prophets.

Also, maybe you should ask the media platforms why they are giving such an extremist a platform to make such controversial and offensive speeches. I doubt you have done that. For someone so offended by his presence you seem to have done sod all to try and get him deported.

If I presented you with a mathematical challenge I'm pretty sure you'd be on the nail. But reading and writing is not your forte.

Cut the crap and get on point. You know nothing about my educational background, strengths, weaknesses and again this is another poor attempt to twist an argument and point score.

so getting involved in the analysis of ANY book is perhaps best left to others

Laughable and yet again another presumption. I wonder which part of my educational background you are going to decipher and use against me next to try and win this debate. Maybe I should start a new thread with a poll.

OK. I'll try again.

Why do you believe its ok and understandable that Anjem Choudary is not vilified, condemned
or attacked by the Muslim community for using the Q'uran for his own evil, twisted, divisive agenda.

Yet you also believe there is some justification for the stance the Muslim world has taken over the Salman
Rushdie affair.

How can you possibly condemn one course of action and not the other?

7/7 bombers? Evil religious lunatics or not? Hero's to the faith or absolute scum?

WTF has this got to do with the City?

Pair of you pack it in.

Let's just get on with the game boys, and cut this out - it's a football forum, we have enough diatribe on that let alone this.

Why do you believe its ok and understandable that Anjem Choudary is not vilified, condemned
or attacked by the Muslim community for using the Q'uran for his own evil, twisted, divisive agenda.

I personally don't believe it's okay < that is what you are not getting into your head. I have my own personal opinion yet I can also understand the opinion of many in the Muslim community. The Q'uran is open to interpretation just like any other religious book. If they start to question his interpretation they may very well offend a lot more Muslims and this would bring disdain on them in the Muslim community as a whole.

Yet you also believe there is some justification for the stance the Muslim world has taken over the Salman
Rushdie affair.

No. I just understand that in religion God is the most important so whenever someone questions/insults your God it is going to be more offensive than anything else. Of course the reaction was bad but if I went out on television and said that I had a deep hatred for Cardiff City you'd all try and do me in so don't pretend others act in such a different manner. It wasn't so long ago that British football was as powerful as a religion. I suppose given your age you remember those days.

How can you possibly condemn one course of action and not the other?

See above.

7/7 bombers? Evil religious lunatics or not? Hero's to the faith or absolute scum?

Well of course they are evil and many Muslims think they are terrible also and have condemned their actions.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

-top link is broken btw

Why do you believe its ok and understandable that Anjem Choudary is not vilified, condemned
or attacked by the Muslim community for using the Q'uran for his own evil, twisted, divisive agenda.

I personally don't believe it's okay < that is what you are not getting into your head. I have my own personal opinion yet I can also understand the opinion of many in the Muslim community. The Q'uran is open to interpretation just like any other religious book. If they start to question his interpretation they may very well offend a lot more Muslims and this would bring disdain on them in the Muslim community as a whole.

Yet you also believe there is some justification for the stance the Muslim world has taken over the Salman
Rushdie affair.

No. I just understand that in religion God is the most important so whenever someone questions/insults your God it is going to be more offensive than anything else. Of course the reaction was bad but if I went out on television and said that I had a deep hatred for Cardiff City you'd all try and do me in so don't pretend others act in such a different manner. It wasn't so long ago that British football was as powerful as a religion. I suppose given your age you remember those days.

How can you possibly condemn one course of action and not the other?

See above.

7/7 bombers? Evil religious lunatics or not? Hero's to the faith or absolute scum?

Well of course they are evil and many Muslims think they are terrible also and have condemned their actions.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

-top link is broken btw

Yet Choudary supports them. But you still say you "understand" why more dont speak out against him.

Then in the next breath say you also understand why a fatwah was declared on Salman Rushdie.

Thats hypocricy

You mention the EDL? Its mainly white British people that flood the streets when they try to march.
The EDL cant move without white people condemning and attacking them, along with hundreds of
Muslim youths whenever they are anywhere near a Muslim area.

Explain why Muslim youths and British anti-fascists (or whatever they label themselves as
are not attacking Anjem Choudary when he marches. Yet we both know that if Rushdie comes
out of hiding he will be a dead man.

Thats hypocricy too

I havent read all of the posts as its far to long for me, BUT what I will say is all things black is you have seemed to come onto this message bored with one simple focus, banging on about race and religion its f*cking boring now, how do you know that 99% of Muslims are good? Unless you have visited every Mosque or Muslim family? Why have you come on a football message bored just to talk about all this, yes it gets brought up from time to time it will do on a message bored, you seem to jump at the chance, do you like football, or Cardiff City?

Yet Choudary supports them. But you still say you "understand" why more dont speak out against him.

Then in the next breath say you also understand why a fatwah was declared on Salman Rushdie.

Thats hypocricy

You mention the EDL? Its mainly white British people that flood the streets when they try to march.
The EDL cant move without white people condemning and attacking them, along with hundreds of
Muslim youths whenever they are anywhere near a Muslim area.

Explain why Muslim youths and British anti-fascists (or whatever they label themselves as
are not attacking Anjem Choudary when he marches. Yet we both know that if Rushdie comes
out of hiding he will be a dead man.

Thats hypocricy too

Im glad you said more because loads of Muslims have spoke out against him but the problem is the media give him the platform to speak. They invite him to events just to be controversial knowing it will make news and sell their papers or get them views. The media are more to blame for Choudary than anyone else.

'On January 14, 1989, 1,000 British Muslims marched through Bradford and burned a copy of Salman Rushdie’s novel The Satanic Verses. Sunni joined with Shia to condemn Rushdie for his apparently blasphemous portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.'


Rushdie had in their eyes portrayed a prophet very badly. Of course they are going to be angry if that's part of their religion.

Do I understand it as a non believer? No. Do I understand why they might feel angered? Yes.

I havent read all of the posts as its far to long for me, BUT what I will say is all things black is you have seemed to come onto this message bored with one simple focus, banging on about race and religion its f*cking boring now, how do you know that 99% of Muslims are good? Unless you have visited every Mosque or Muslim family? Why have you come on a football message bored just to talk about all this, yes it gets brought up from time to time it will do on a message bored, you seem to jump at the chance, do you like football, or Cardiff City?

Not at all. Threads popped up and I then debated. I think Angry Man set up one. I then created this one and debate got going again. No problem at all with debate and if anything I respect taffyapple for engaging in a debate.

I have talked a lot about football on here and of course, had you been bothered to click on my profile you'd see that I have a blog on Cardiff City FC so obviously I do like football and I do support Cardiff City.

Yet Choudary supports them. But you still say you "understand" why more dont speak out against him.

Then in the next breath say you also understand why a fatwah was declared on Salman Rushdie.

Thats hypocricy

You mention the EDL? Its mainly white British people that flood the streets when they try to march.
The EDL cant move without white people condemning and attacking them, along with hundreds of
Muslim youths whenever they are anywhere near a Muslim area.

Explain why Muslim youths and British anti-fascists (or whatever they label themselves as
are not attacking Anjem Choudary when he marches. Yet we both know that if Rushdie comes
out of hiding he will be a dead man.

Thats hypocricy too

Im glad you said more because loads of Muslims have spoke out against him but the problem is the media give him the platform to speak. They invite him to events just to be controversial knowing it will make news and sell their papers or get them views. The media are more to blame for Choudary than anyone else.

'On January 14, 1989, 1,000 British Muslims marched through Bradford and burned a copy of Salman Rushdie’s novel The Satanic Verses. Sunni joined with Shia to condemn Rushdie for his apparently blasphemous portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.'


Rushdie had in their eyes portrayed a prophet very badly. Of course they are going to be angry if that's part of their religion.

Do I understand it as a non believer? No. Do I understand why they might feel angered? Yes.

Your double standards are a little frightening actually

In a nutshell. You think its acceptable for Muslims to tolerate those calling for the death of Christians

But its also acceptable for Muslims to call for the Death of anyone questioning the Q'uran?

Your double standards are a little frightening actually

In a nutshell. You think its acceptable for Muslims to tolerate those calling for the death of Christians

But its also acceptable for Muslims to call for the Death of anyone questioning the Q'uran?

Again, you're not reading it properly.

Is it acceptable from my point of view? No.

Can I understand why Muslims feel that way? Yes. That still doesn't make it acceptable from my point of view.

If you can't see the difference between those points then sorry but there is not much else I can do to help you.

Your double standards are a little frightening actually

In a nutshell. You think its acceptable for Muslims to tolerate those calling for the death of Christians

But its also acceptable for Muslims to call for the Death of anyone questioning the Q'uran?

Again, you're not reading it properly.

Is it acceptable from my point of view? No.

Can I understand why Muslims feel that way? Yes. That still doesn't make it acceptable from my point of view.

If you can't see the difference between those points then sorry but there is not much else I can do to help you.

So you dont accept Muslims standing idly by whilst Choudary spouts his filthy bile? But you
understand their point of view? And as such will let it pass. Is that what your saying?
Same as you dont accept Rushdie being on a deathlist, but understand their point of view?
And as such will let it pass. This because it is their religion, and they take it very seriously.

Tell me. Why is it that the other side of that same coin... white people suspicious of too
much immigration... repulses you so much? Why do THEY not get your "I do not accept your
views, but understand them" stance