What are peoples thoughts on Islamic Extremist Groups?

I dont think any of them have ever had a hit record in the charts

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

Do you believe the Koran is a perfect book?

because if you do, it discounts every 'intelligent' word you have written.

Mohammed did not write it, so if Gods messenger did not write it.

It must be flawed.

Because his 'followers' and 'friends' wrote it. Mere mortal men. Men are flawed

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

As you brought up Afghanistan. What are the UN stats for that country?
It is muslim and it is controlled under strict Islamic laws. Whereas Jordan (as you chose to highlight) is probably the most westernised of all muslim/arabic countries. Therefore your argument that the problem in Afghanistan is cultural (and not muslim) is basically wrong, whereas your example that Jordan is a modern inclusive society because it is muslim, is also basically wrong, as it is culturally closer to the West, and therefore islamic laws play a much lesser role in society.

You're going to ignore ALL his other points where he showed you how pretty much your entire post was ill informed bullshit are you? You got your ass handed to you on a plate, better to take it gracefully and admit it.

Like what?

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

As you brought up Afghanistan. What are the UN stats for that country?
It is muslim and it is controlled under strict Islamic laws. Whereas Jordan (as you chose to highlight) is probably the most westernised of all muslim/arabic countries. Therefore your argument that the problem in Afghanistan is cultural (and not muslim) is basically wrong, whereas your example that Jordan is a modern inclusive society because it is muslim, is also basically wrong, as it is culturally closer to the West, and therefore islamic laws play a much lesser role in society.

You're going to ignore ALL his other points where he showed you how pretty much your entire post was ill informed bullshit are you? You got your ass handed to you on a plate, better to take it gracefully and admit it.

Why, if Islamic society was so advanced, (and Europeans were living in caves) do Europeans strive to improve their lives, adapt and accept others beliefs, do the muslims want to go back to the stone age?

Have you ever been to muslim countries (not as a tourist) ?

If my post was so ill informed then perhaps you could show me where?

I dont think any of them have ever had a hit record in the charts

Well not since Top of the Pops finished.

Every religion is sexist to be fair.

Forget being 'fair'

Be honest..

Islam treats women like shit.

The feller who done the long post will NEVER lose an argument because he will point blank
refuse to admit that women rarely report rape in muslim countries because they are immediately
suspected of adultery/lying.. and are thrown in jail

Very true. Personally I think it was a good post and provides an alternative perspective, however it is equallty blinkered in terms of bias.

Anyway, every religion is sexist, racist, violent and puerile in some capacity.

Is it the religion or the people who use it to gain power and influence?
Most religions claim to promote peace and harmony, but are used by people to promote hatred and gain power and influence.

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

The mention of sex attacks on children??

kind of wonder if thats what the Imam tells them in the Mosque.

But here you go, from the great Ayatollah Khomeni,

This guy had millions of followers and was considered an absolute hero to the
Islamic world

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister." Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Yeh, kids are well safe under the Sharia

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

Wow just back in from work and so many points to make - firstly your first post "What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies." simply not true - there are many many educated women who are working and drive cars (yes I know Saudi doesn't allow it but as their Scholars acknowledge that is their society and is NOT an Islamic ruling").
I mentioned Jordan (as well as the Gulf countries and Syria as examples) as I was talking about education but yes it appears they do use torture to get info - so does the world's master the USA (they actually subcontract it out to brutal regimes all over the world) - WHAT ON EARTH HAS THAT TO DO WITH ISLAM AND MUSLIMS!!!! IS every wrong doing by so called Muslims (practising or not) going to be taken as a reflection of Islam.
How about Hitler and Germany- that CHRISTAIN country that slaughtered people on an industrial scale - millions and millions - no one has ever ever done that before - is that a reflection of Western Christian European values?? Do I paint all Christian European s as such.....of course not!!
Many so called Muslims do bad things - please by all means condemn them and do what you want with THEM but do not persecute the rest of us !!
"All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen." - NO we don't - I do NOT support preachers of hate - how dare you try and inflame people against us.
"Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam" - who says? I work with all kinds of people I ain't got a problem with anyone because of their creed. I got a problem with people who jump on bandwagons and push their lies as the definitive truth.
The Shia - Sunni in Iraq slaughtering one another again that is a recent problem that started taking off big time when that the USA invaded Iraq and broke that already devastated country into pieces. Again its mostly about power and influence in the free for all that is now Iraq.
"Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that." That's a laughable statement - try telling that to the thousands of Iraqis who were killed by the "Christian" bombs of the USA army in devout Christian George Bush's and devout Christian Tony Blair's war. If I'm going to start recounting " Christian" atrocities of the past we'll be here all night!!! And yet I KNOW it's not Christianity that's the issue - its angry misguided people using it, the same way some misguided, ignorant little runt blows up innocent people in a train or plane - that's NOT Islam that's angry people committing mass murder.
The reality is despite the whole massive industry this "War on Terror" has turned into - it's still Muslims who are dying in their thousands as a result of many, many various factors and histories. And yet that is not enough for some people who feel the need to use any crime committed by anyone with a vaguely "Muslim" name to beat Muslims in this country with.

"Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion" - shame on you for stooping so low - surely you're not suggesting that I advocate killing innocents?? Are your religious beliefs so weak that you have to libel people to try and make yourself feel better? Is this not "rude" as you say? And above all obviously inaccurate and deliberately provocative?

Finally I'm not here to score points - I'm here to read about Cardiff City, however as always any debate on these boards seems to degenerate into a mud-slinging and attacking certain miniority communities. Although I must say it's good to see there are some fair minded people out there, I was beginning to lose hope for our futures!!!

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

The mention of sex attacks on children??

kind of wonder if thats what the Imam tells them in the Mosque.

But here you go, from the great Ayatollah Khomeni,

This guy had millions of followers and was considered an absolute hero to the
Islamic world

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister." Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Yeh, kids are well safe under the Sharia

That is absolutely vile - Khomeini was a Shia cleric and the shia account for maybe 7 to 10 percent of Muslims world wide - they are the majority in Iran and else where they are in the minority. He is NOT considered a "Hero to the Islamic World" - as you earning your living in Saudi know very well, the majority of Muslims consider him a Heretic. Saying all that this is quote that is absolutely denied by the Shia followers of Khomeini and they say that the Saudis created it to cause a backlash against the Shia. You know well what the officials Saudis think of him.

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

in fact at the last election churches spoke out and asked people not to vote for right wing groups.if a few of the extremists were kicked out it would be good for the whole nation.the moderate muslim could have his mosque back.

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

The mention of sex attacks on children??

kind of wonder if thats what the Imam tells them in the Mosque.

But here you go, from the great Ayatollah Khomeni,

This guy had millions of followers and was considered an absolute hero to the
Islamic world

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister." Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Yeh, kids are well safe under the Sharia

That is absolutely vile - Khomeini was a Shia cleric and the shia account for maybe 7 to 10 percent of Muslims world wide - they are the majority in Iran and else where they are in the minority. He is NOT considered a "Hero to the Islamic World" - as you earning your living in Saudi know very well, the majority of Muslims consider him a Heretic. Saying all that this is quote that is absolutely denied by the Shia followers of Khomeini and they say that the Saudis created it to cause a backlash against the Shia. You know well what the officials Saudis think of him.

Here's another quote:

"At the end of the day, innocent people, when we say innocent people we mean Muslims...if you are non-Muslim then you are guilty... I must have hatred toward everything not-Islam." Anjem Choudary.

Now I'll help you out.

The vast majority of British non-muslims dont give a f**k about Islam or the Muslim population.
Because we are all the same under God. People are just people. Who cares. Life is hard enough
without worrying if God is a Christian Muslim or whatever.

Our main concern is this, and perhaps you can help me out here?

When the EDL or BNP march and protest, Muslim youths are out on the streets in their tens of hundreds
protesting and ready to fight. This is the next generation of British Muslim.

Not once have this 'next generation' protested against Anjem Choudary. Not one protest. He is never
attacked or threatened

I know why. I'm interested in your views on it?

Also, you intimate that Saudi ban women from driving as some kind of 'governmental thing'... thats
ridiculous and either you are naive or dont want to face facts. Saudi Arabia is ruled by the Sharia.
Women must have a male 'guardian' (its in the Koran)... The decision was made years ago that given
driving licences, women could be tempted to stray (ABSOLUTE FACT)

Now I disagree with it. But f**k it, its not my country, im a guest here, and am treated well by the
vast majority of ALL races (except the Pakistanis, cant trust them lot)

However, anyone wanting those stone age doctrines in Britain can just f**k OFF.

Which is why we are all a little concerned that Anjem Choudary, Abu Hamza, Qatada and lunatics
like this have so much support??? amongst young Muslim males. And if they DONT support them...
why do they not take to the streets in protest against them?

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

These sex attacks on children you comment on. I would say any Briton who does not speak out against it, is condoning it and therefore it could be argued is supporting it. I would be amazed if it was happening in a community and people did not attempt to stop it or report it. I accept the communities in northern England where gangs of men groomed and gang raped young girls have sat back and done nothing. But I suppose we should look at the communities involved.

I could suggest that you get your information from the BBC, Mirror and MAC, but I would not be so rude and also accept you have more intelligence than that.

You say "lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart".

Thankfully my religious beliefs, family and upbringing provide me with that, I do not feel the need to advocate and support the blowing up of innocent people on tubes and buses to get a happy heart, find peace and get to heaven. But maybe that is just me, and I must say that thankfully no christian service I have ever been to (or heard of) has ever advocated and encouraged people to go out and kill others of a different belief or religion. If they did, then I would no longer be a member of that religion and would certainly report them to their head "god squader" and the police. Like someone else said you choose your religion and beliefs, you are not born with them.

These muslims who kill each other (are they not from different sects) - Shia and Sunni?
Who kill each other because they do not accept the others beliefs. The rest of the christian world grew out of that about 500 years ago (apart from the Irish).
Christian (and other religions) beliefs of peace on earth do generally mean that. Why is it only the muslims who seem hell bent on destroying every other religion apart from their own? No doubt you will say it is only a minority. But if it is only a minority, and the damage it is causing to your religion and people, then why don't the majority stamp it out?

Perhaps you could explain why the muslims in this country that believe we are so evil, do not just leave? They are not being held against their will. Infact they do everything possible not to leave.

You say Jordan is amongst the best educated countries etc (according to the UN) so why is it that a muslim cleric is desperate to avoid going there (current cost to British taxpayers £3 million) as there is fear of torture and death. Odd that the more illiterate areas of western Europe (I accept you could include Newport and Swansea in that) do not have that problem.
I have not heard of any christian vicar or priest fighting deportation to a christian country for fear of torture and death by other peace loving well educated christians. Perhaps islam has a different definition of educated and peaceful, and that is why they find it so hard to get on with other peoples of different religions. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews also seem to have a problem with islam, so maybe, just maybe it is not the christians of Great Britain that are the problem.

The mention of sex attacks on children??

kind of wonder if thats what the Imam tells them in the Mosque.

But here you go, from the great Ayatollah Khomeni,

This guy had millions of followers and was considered an absolute hero to the
Islamic world

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister." Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Yeh, kids are well safe under the Sharia

That is absolutely vile - Khomeini was a Shia cleric and the shia account for maybe 7 to 10 percent of Muslims world wide - they are the majority in Iran and else where they are in the minority. He is NOT considered a "Hero to the Islamic World" - as you earning your living in Saudi know very well, the majority of Muslims consider him a Heretic. Saying all that this is quote that is absolutely denied by the Shia followers of Khomeini and they say that the Saudis created it to cause a backlash against the Shia. You know well what the officials Saudis think of him.

Here's another quote:

"At the end of the day, innocent people, when we say innocent people we mean Muslims...if you are non-Muslim then you are guilty... I must have hatred toward everything not-Islam." Anjem Choudary.

Now I'll help you out.

The vast majority of British non-muslims dont give a f**k about Islam or the Muslim population.
Because we are all the same under God. People are just people. Who cares. Life is hard enough
without worrying if God is a Christian Muslim or whatever.

Our main concern is this, and perhaps you can help me out here?

When the EDL or BNP march and protest, Muslim youths are out on the streets in their tens of hundreds
protesting and ready to fight. This is the next generation of British Muslim.

Not once have this 'next generation' protested against Anjem Choudary. Not one protest. He is never
attacked or threatened

I know why. I'm interested in your views on it?

Also, you intimate that Saudi ban women from driving as some kind of 'governmental thing'... thats
ridiculous and either you are naive or dont want to face facts. Saudi Arabia is ruled by the Sharia.
Women must have a male 'guardian' (its in the Koran)... The decision was made years ago that given
driving licences, women could be tempted to stray (ABSOLUTE FACT)

Now I disagree with it. But f**k it, its not my country, im a guest here, and am treated well by the
vast majority of ALL races (except the Pakistanis, cant trust them lot)

However, anyone wanting those stone age doctrines in Britain can just f**k OFF.

Which is why we are all a little concerned that Anjem Choudary, Abu Hamza, Qatada and lunatics
like this have so much support??? amongst young Muslim males. And if they DONT support them...
why do they not take to the streets in protest against them?

All other muslim countries allow women to drive - its a Saudi thing - Saudi is ruled by Sharia only in certain limited things - there policies are as secular as other Muslim countries (e.g. ecomonics, foreign policy etc etc) _ Saudi has to have a veneer of Islam because of it's history. On the many Arabic satellite channels (which I'm pretty sure you follow!) many SAUDI scholars have said that this is NOT an Islamic ruling but one that "suits" Saudi society as it is now - it WILL change eventually. Are you suggesting that the other 40, 50 odd or whatever Muslim majority countries are not Islamic. Look at Yemen next door or the Gulf countries or supposedly " Islamic" Iran they all allow women to drive. SAudi is NOT Islam and saudis are a tiny minority of the worlds 1.5 billion muslims. So its Saudi's "version"/ interpretation of Islam which is disputed by other Muslims in their countries. You can NOT say everything Saudi does is Islam , even if it suits your agenda, because Muslims themselves don't accept it as such!!!

As for your obsession with Anjum NOBODY Choudry - do us all favour and take him out - again I REPEAT to you he is somebody the EDL/BNP always use as a stick to beat the rest of us with - He has been banned from giving speeches at all Mosques, the guy with Hook were eventually chased out of Finnsbury Mosque by the local Muslims there (please see quotes from women who leads the security services-can't remember her name).

The reason the youths come out against the EDL and other Nazis is because they are a physical threat against people's well being, their shops, their properties, their safety etc etc. However these other guys you mention (Abu Hamza has been arrested and deported THANKS to the help of the Muslims in that area) - while your mate anjum is a nobody joker who is being followed by the security services.
I'm not going to take a day off work and demonstrate just to show the likes of you that I'm not sympathetic to murderers or people who call for the killing of innocents, I'm obviously against that anyway. I don't demonstrate when America with our government's help attacks and occupies countries like Iraq.....does that mean I support them????
Again you will deny this like last time but that the facts. If somebody breaks the law (anybody) they should be crushed by the law.....but the witch hunt against entire communities, the drip drip effect of negative and many times libelous news, the demonisation of Muslims has to stop.
Anyway must dash to work....toodle pip!

Freedom of Speech? Ignore them? or ban them and deport them to a non-democratic country

ship them back where they belong! why are they even here.

The thing that intrigues me about the Liberal left support of all things Islam,is that some of the issues that the left support such as womens rights,homosexuality are vehemently opposed by Islamists....funny old world is it not

Freedom of speech? Like they believe in that. It is do what they say or you will be executed (stoned or decapitated).

All these politicians/people who support them have almost the same ideas - do as we say, or we will threaten, bully, ridicule you.

What about the women and womens rights? No education for them , no jobs, no driving cars. Women are slaves in Muslim societies.
Passed around in a family and made to do all the work. Remember there is no such thing (in reality) as rape in muslim countries, but a woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery, (the man gets no charges brought).

Women can be imprisoned for being attacked and raped (get your head around that).

All these muslims should be deported unless they openly and actively oppose the preachers of hate. The so called "silent majority" in the vast muslim community in this country are supporting them, but pretend not to when atrocities happen. They are the ones who can stop them by standing up to the extremists, but they choose not to.

Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing?

This is the problem with theses threads - it starts of as an attack on "Islamic Extremists" then it degenerates into an attack on Muslims in general by the most ill-informed type of hate merchants (who cannot see the irony of their one-eyed stances). You are wrong on so levels here its beyond belief - if you had any idea about Muslims (and no I don't mean what you pick up off The Sun, The Star and EDL weekly or whatever it is you get your "knowledge" of Muslims from) you would know that in general the respect we have for our mothers, daughters, wives is un-rivalled. I don't recognise any of the above - in Islam the punishment for rape is DEATH for the perpertrator - women are not imprisoned for being attacked and raped in any way whatsoever in Islam, Women are educated (look at the UN stats for the Gulf countries, Jordan, Syria (beforethe civil war) etc etc where the levels of literacy are BETTER then some western countries - before you mention Afghanistan, that is a Cultural issue there NOT an Islamic one - Islam encourages education. Islam gave women rights of inheritance, education and a postion of honour 1400 years ago while parts of Western Europe still lived in caves!! Only 500 years ago Christian Western Europe held a conference to discuss if women had souls!!!
I don't deny there are examples of oppression but that is due to a number of factors - don't blame Islam for that. In the UK the last month has been all about child rape (NSPCC says in the UK that 1 in 9 -or 1 in 8 - children have been sexually abused!!!!)- do we say any Briton who doesn't openly condemn it secretly supports it!!??? (to quote your inappropriate quote -"Isn't there a saying about evil wins when people do nothing"). You see how easy it is to demonise an entire community???
If you really want to learn about Islam go to Muslims who understand their religion and ask - if I want to learn about Christianity I go to PRACTISING Christians who have some knowledge not somebody who HATES Christainity who will quote the odd verse out of context.

Also you conveniently forget to mention that these "Islamic Extremists" also kill plenty of Muslims but you still lump us all together - believe me I'm not fearing any man and I don't have to "pretend" anything. If you want to learn about Islam come with any one else who's interested and meet me in the OPEN Mosque we have here in the Docks - we got nothing to hide, come and be educated about us "horrible, monster Muslims" and lose the hatred in your heart....you never know you might find something beautiful which will bring peace and contentment to your heart.
I've now gotta make up this 1/2 hour I lost at work - so won't be answering any replys until later on probably when I'm back home.

Do you believe the Koran is a perfect book?

because if you do, it discounts every 'intelligent' word you have written.

Mohammed did not write it, so if Gods messenger did not write it.

It must be flawed.

Because his 'followers' and 'friends' wrote it. Mere mortal men. Men are flawed

Remind me.

Who wrote the bible? And how many years after the events it purports to report on? And who decided what to insert in the bible and , more importantly , what to leave out?

The thing that intrigues me about the Liberal left support of all things Islam,is that some of the issues that the left support such as womens rights,homosexuality are vehemently opposed by Islamists....funny old world is it not

The thing that intrigues me about the Liberal left support of all things Islam,is that some of the issues that the left support such as womens rights,homosexuality are vehemently opposed by Islamists....funny old world is it not

I think you're confusing supporting the human rights of muslims with supporting their religion.

Oh dear

the bible was written by MAN. just like the Koran. but like the Koran, also has some right stone age bollocks in it. there, said it...and no Christians are demanding my execution.

Lets see our muslim friend admit there are passages in
that book that are f*cking nonsense

he's obviously an intelligent feller but by definition
has a blind spot the size of a cow.

Game set and match.

Oh dear

the bible was written by MAN. just like the Koran. but like the Koran, also has some right stone age bollocks in it. there, said it...and no Christians are demanding my execution.

Lets see our muslim friend admit there are passages in
that book that are f*cking nonsense

he's obviously an intelligent feller but by definition
has a blind spot the size of a cow.SO DO WE ALL

Game set and match.In your eyes only

Look he 's a bloke just like you debating his point in a place where he 's very likely going to be in the minority.If his views represent the average muslim living in this society then I hope theres a few million like him.At the end of the day its talking that solves everything-violence nothing.I'm as willing to hear his muslim views as I am to your views so all this game set and match bullshit actually makes me think he's given you something to think about.

I see there have been some very detailed views on this. Simple answer is just get rid before it all ends in tears. And it will. I'd melt these medieval mumbo-jumbo cunts down as candle wax and use their filthy beards for the wicks.

I see there have been some very detailed views on this. Simple answer is just get rid before it all ends in tears. And it will. I'd melt these medieval mumbo-jumbo cunts down as candle wax and use their filthy beards for the wicks.

Helps a lot

Oh dear

the bible was written by MAN. just like the Koran. but like the Koran, also has some right stone age bollocks in it. there, said it...and no Christians are demanding my execution.

Lets see our muslim friend admit there are passages in
that book that are f*cking nonsense

he's obviously an intelligent feller but by definition
has a blind spot the size of a cow.

Game set and match.

Why are people still debating? This guy has clearly won the argument. Look what he wrote!

Look again. Game, set AND match. See. It's over, guys. He's won.

Idiot.

Some Muslisms kill people, most don't
Some Christians kill people, most don't
Some Jews kill people, most don't

The one thing we can all agree on is that the doctrines of all major world religions are homophobic, and as a result, are bullshit.

Anyway, we have science now.

Game, set and ma... oh wait, other people have opinions?

Carry on.

Oh what a load of blether written by all. If I hear the line "Islam is a peaceful religion" or "Islam respects all races" I am going to cry.

Heres a little story, as most of you know the Gulf is full of Filiponos/Indians/African immigrant workers who work on the various oil rigs etc. How do you think the muslims treat their immigrant workers? Absolutely shit, they won't eat dinner with them they won't converse with them they won't help the settle in, they treat them like second class citizens. THIS IS A FACT. They see the rest of Asia as a bunch of neanderthals and treat them as such.

What goes on in mosques in Britain? HMMMMM. I'm thinking a newspaper very soon will go undercover in a few and see whats actually happening because it's my understanding some imams preach only hate to us "Infidels". How do muslims see gays? Sharia law is inevitable unless we act NOW. We are not a christian country and we certainly don't need another archaic one dragging us back.

I dont think any of them have ever had a hit record in the charts

and thats my only comment on this thread before i get verbally beaten up! again!

Oh what a load of blether written by all. If I hear the line "Islam is a peaceful religion" or "Islam respects all races" I am going to cry.

Heres a little story, as most of you know the Gulf is full of Filiponos/Indians/African immigrant workers who work on the various oil rigs etc. How do you think the muslims treat their immigrant workers? Absolutely shit, they won't eat dinner with them they won't converse with them they won't help the settle in, they treat them like second class citizens. THIS IS A FACT. They see the rest of Asia as a bunch of neanderthals and treat them as such.

What goes on in mosques in Britain? HMMMMM. I'm thinking a newspaper very soon will go undercover in a few and see whats actually happening because it's my understanding some imams preach only hate to us "Infidels". How do muslims see gays? Sharia law is inevitable unless we act NOW. We are not a christian country and we certainly don't need another archaic one dragging us back.

do you know what im going to surprise taffyapple here and say i totally agree 100% to your last sentence bluebird since 1948 ... isnt religion such a pile of old bollocks. how great would it be to burn every fecking church and mosque to the ground and be done with all religious groups once of for all! ...then and only then would we have a chance of complete peace on earth ..... although saying that the yanks will think of something! and we`d be sure to follow!

I think that the guy who suggested melting them all down into candles has the best idea on how to deal with this problem. Another benefit of this is that they would become a source of renewable energy and as you know, there are lots of them so they could provide a source of light/heat for many years to come.

Anyway, will these extremist candles be available to buy before Christmas as I am interested in buying a few boxes to give as gifts. Now that really would be a case of religious enlightenment.

Oh dear

the bible was written by MAN. just like the Koran. but like the Koran, also has some right stone age bollocks in it. there, said it...and no Christians are demanding my execution.

Lets see our muslim friend admit there are passages in
that book that are f*cking nonsense

he's obviously an intelligent feller but by definition
has a blind spot the size of a cow.

Game set and match.

Sigh.......long sigh............................I knew it was mistake to even bother (he says to himself).....Of course everyone believes their "wife at home is the prettiest" (it's just a French non-muslim saying that I got from Arsene Wenger..please don't start a new thread on this or I'm going to cry!!) - Mr. "Taffyapple" your smug self-congratulatory tone proves that you got the answers to life, yes? Everything else is just "stone age bollocks", yes?? Well no actually - an idea or concept being old doesn't necessarily make it wrong - I'm pretty sure that from your writings you've never ever, EVER actually studied Islam (and Christianity if I'm being honest) but yet you have very strong opinions on Islam/Muslims in which you can "prove wrong" (- game, set and match - what does that even mean???) great civilisations like Islam (and indeed - I doff my cap respectfully - Christianity and Judaism). The Koran was revealed over 1400 years and changed the world at that time, it was absolutely revolutionary, it was revealed piece-meal over 23 years ago.

Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo were the centres of knowledge for the rest of the world, Islamic Spain ( for 800 years Spain was Islamic until the Inquisition ending in about 1480 something) was the centre of European learning and the starting point for the European Renaissance, Arabic was the lingua franca of the time (like English is now) -the rest of the world used to send their children to the ancient Islamic universities (just like everyone send their kids to Western universities now). You see we're not all savage animal murderers.

More recently during the Victorian period when Great Britain was at its peak of might and power and along with France, Germany and others ruled and occupied most of the world they started the 'Orientalist' program which continues till this day - these were brilliant, brilliant men (mostly Christians but some athiests as well) who learned and studied Islam and spoke fluent Arabic. Their job was to "destroy" Islam using its own texts and show just how "wrong" Islam was and therefore prove that the West had "won" - the Muslims at this point were at their lowest ebb, weak, divided and occupied having stagnated more or less. Even these Orientalists couldn't destroy Islam and indeed many did and still are converting to Islam (e.g. the famous in his time Dutch Orientalist Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje in the late 1800s), the point is not ONCE did these learned men, who didn't believe in Islam, ever say it has "some right stone age bollocks in it"!!
Now Mr. Taffyapple I don't agree with your statement above and I really, really don't care what you believe in and it's none of my business - what I disagree with and why I,mistakenly, wrote in was because your article and your many other islamophobic articles are usually incorrect, extremely emotively worded, disparaging and rabble-rousing (please see comments above and below by such leading free-thinkers as "Bluebird since 1948") and they are adding to a worrying sense of persecution and demonising of a minority community which when expanded nation-wide makes its an extremely troubling trend for all our futures especially as this recession kicks in further and there are a lot of angry people out there looking for a scape goat for all their problems.

Before you say anything else - you are entitled and free to believe what you want, as we ALL are, just because you don't agree or can't be bothered to research a little (and no I don't mean on some far-right website which quotes some obscure books or quotes verses form the Koran out of context or quote some illiterate nobody like Anjum Choudry) - you shouldn't just dismiss things you don't understand or have no interest in so out of hand. I don't claim to be any kind of scholar or to have any knowledge but then again I don't have an agenda against any particular group in this country and I certainly wouldn't write in trying to stir up an "us against them" debate because "them" (i.e. the minority) would have no chance...

I'm now really tired of this but I'm heartened that there are some fair minded Cardiff fans out there.....oh yeah has Carl written his update yet???

To be fair all religions, not just Islam and Christianity, are pretty stupid, so for what's its worth, you're both wrong.

In my opinion, naturally.

Oh dear

the bible was written by MAN. just like the Koran. but like the Koran, also has some right stone age bollocks in it. there, said it...and no Christians are demanding my execution.

Lets see our muslim friend admit there are passages in
that book that are f*cking nonsense

he's obviously an intelligent feller but by definition
has a blind spot the size of a cow.

Game set and match.

Sigh.......long sigh............................I knew it was mistake to even bother (he says to himself).....Of course everyone believes their "wife at home is the prettiest" (it's just a French non-muslim saying that I got from Arsene Wenger..please don't start a new thread on this or I'm going to cry!!) - Mr. "Taffyapple" your smug self-congratulatory tone proves that you got the answers to life, yes? Everything else is just "stone age bollocks", yes?? Well no actually - an idea or concept being old doesn't necessarily make it wrong - I'm pretty sure that from your writings you've never ever, EVER actually studied Islam (and Christianity if I'm being honest) but yet you have very strong opinions on Islam/Muslims in which you can "prove wrong" (- game, set and match - what does that even mean???) great civilisations like Islam (and indeed - I doff my cap respectfully - Christianity and Judaism). The Koran was revealed over 1400 years and changed the world at that time, it was absolutely revolutionary, it was revealed piece-meal over 23 years ago.

Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo were the centres of knowledge for the rest of the world, Islamic Spain ( for 800 years Spain was Islamic until the Inquisition ending in about 1480 something) was the centre of European learning and the starting point for the European Renaissance, Arabic was the lingua franca of the time (like English is now) -the rest of the world used to send their children to the ancient Islamic universities (just like everyone send their kids to Western universities now). You see we're not all savage animal murderers.

More recently during the Victorian period when Great Britain was at its peak of might and power and along with France, Germany and others ruled and occupied most of the world they started the 'Orientalist' program which continues till this day - these were brilliant, brilliant men (mostly Christians but some athiests as well) who learned and studied Islam and spoke fluent Arabic. Their job was to "destroy" Islam using its own texts and show just how "wrong" Islam was and therefore prove that the West had "won" - the Muslims at this point were at their lowest ebb, weak, divided and occupied having stagnated more or less. Even these Orientalists couldn't destroy Islam and indeed many did and still are converting to Islam (e.g. the famous in his time Dutch Orientalist Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje in the late 1800s), the point is not ONCE did these learned men, who didn't believe in Islam, ever say it has "some right stone age bollocks in it"!!
Now Mr. Taffyapple I don't agree with your statement above and I really, really don't care what you believe in and it's none of my business - what I disagree with and why I,mistakenly, wrote in was because your article and your many other islamophobic articles are usually incorrect, extremely emotively worded, disparaging and rabble-rousing (please see comments above and below by such leading free-thinkers as "Bluebird since 1948") and they are adding to a worrying sense of persecution and demonising of a minority community which when expanded nation-wide makes its an extremely troubling trend for all our futures especially as this recession kicks in further and there are a lot of angry people out there looking for a scape goat for all their problems.

Before you say anything else - you are entitled and free to believe what you want, as we ALL are, just because you don't agree or can't be bothered to research a little (and no I don't mean on some far-right website which quotes some obscure books or quotes verses form the Koran out of context or quote some illiterate nobody like Anjum Choudry) - you shouldn't just dismiss things you don't understand or have no interest in so out of hand. I don't claim to be any kind of scholar or to have any knowledge but then again I don't have an agenda against any particular group in this country and I certainly wouldn't write in trying to stir up an "us against them" debate because "them" (i.e. the minority) would have no chance...

I'm now really tired of this but I'm heartened that there are some fair minded Cardiff fans out there.....oh yeah has Carl written his update yet???

i`d like to read your reply to that taff because i think that just about sums things up!