Plaid Cymru

And it's great that they speak fluent welsh it truly is. But my views on the welsh language are that it should be kept in a museum for heritage. Again as previously stated Im not against anyone speaking it but it's just me.

You say your not against anyone speaking it? How magnanimous of you. The language is
a thousand years old and you say its "ok" for the hundreds of thousands of people in Wales
to carry on?

Then say it belongs in a museum.

No wonder the English defeated us. The divide and rule tactics are still prevalent today
Longshanks was a clever fucker

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what I said that has confused you. Just becausing something is in a museum it doesn't mean you can't study/speak it.

Welsh is a living vibrant language, why does it need to go in a museum?

All people have to do to hear it is get on a Bus up to West Wales or the North...
or if you cant be arsed getting on a train:

http://cardiffian.jomec.co.uk/article/w ... emand-ever [/quote]

Right, perhaps I could've worded it better, I didnt mean abolishing the language.

Do you know what? I can't be bothered continuing this debate tonight, I shall continue it another day so I concede.

And it's great that they speak fluent welsh it truly is. But my views on the welsh language are that it should be kept in a museum for heritage. Again as previously stated Im not against anyone speaking it but it's just me.

You say your not against anyone speaking it? How magnanimous of you. The language is
a thousand years old and you say its "ok" for the hundreds of thousands of people in Wales
to carry on?

Then say it belongs in a museum.

No wonder the English defeated us. The divide and rule tactics are still prevalent today
Longshanks was a clever fucker

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what I said that has confused you. Just becausing something is in a museum it doesn't mean you can't study/speak it.

Welsh is a living vibrant language, why does it need to go in a museum?

All people have to do to hear it is get on a Bus up to West Wales or the North...
or if you cant be arsed getting on a train:

http://cardiffian.jomec.co.uk/article/w ... emand-ever

Right, perhaps I could've worded it better, I didnt mean abolishing the language.

Do you know what? I can't be bothered continuing this debate tonight, I shall continue it another day so I concede. [/quote]

You don't have to travel. There are more people speaking Welsh in Cardiff and the Valleys than in Gwynedd these days! Thats due to the demand for Welsh education. But speaking the language doesn't make anyone 'more Welsh.'
Being Welsh is a state of mind, unfortunately there are many on this site who think of themselves as some kind of second class Welshmen and have huge inferiority complex because they don't have Cymraeg and think are under some kind of threat from those who do. Quite mad!
Be proud of what you are, one people one nation one Wales and in the present political climate the ONLY party that thinks from a Welsh perspective is Plaid ALL the others have English masters they must not upset. Some of your points of Plaid in the past 40/50 might have some truth but have a look at them now. They are a modern party with modern socialist ideas for the regeneration communities (not like Labour) led by a valley girl who only recently learnt Welsh.

Sad that the scots, Irish, English are all proud of their heritage.

Yet some Welsh people seem somehow a bit ashamed of theirs.

Without the language we would be part of England now. Thats
not a theory, its a fact.

Longshanks lives on. Divide and rule.

done with this thread now

I am very proud of my Welsh heritage but the langauge i'm afraid does not concern me, we used to walk around naked throwing spears at eachother in the age of the celts but thank the mighty lord I don't see you doing that today.

And Boris isn't that a wonderful fairytale but sadly that has no relevance to this thread so stop making yourself out to be a better Welshman than the rest of us.

Sad that the scots, Irish, English are all proud of their heritage.

Yet some Welsh people seem somehow a bit ashamed of theirs.

Without the language we would be part of England now. Thats
not a theory, its a fact.

Longshanks lives on. Divide and rule.

done with this thread now

I am very proud of my Welsh heritage but the langauge i'm afraid does not concern me, we used to walk around naked throwing spears at eachother in the age of the celts but thank the mighty lord I don't see you doing that today.

And Boris isn't that a wonderful fairytale but sadly that has no relevance to this thread so stop making yourself out to be a better Welshman than the rest of us.

What fairytale?

Sad that the scots, Irish, English are all proud of their heritage.

Yet some Welsh people seem somehow a bit ashamed of theirs.

Without the language we would be part of England now. Thats
not a theory, its a fact.

Longshanks lives on. Divide and rule.

done with this thread now

Just because I have no interest in the language does not mean im not interested in Welsh heritage. I just think that part of it is redundant. I don't see it being of any advantage to me in my life whereas a language more commonly used would be.

Boris: "I moved here from London and I learnt to speak Welsh"

Thinly veiled: "I'm more Welsh than you, f**k you all you lazy english bastards"

The continuous point being brought up whenever one of these threads pops up is 'If Welsh is so great why aren't we speaking it on here'....

Because if we were you wouldn't be part of the conversation.

I was out on the town last night (in Cardiff) and had a full blown conversation in Welsh with 3 strangers. I love the fact I can speak Welsh. It's part of my identity. I doesn't make me a better person or a better Welshman. But it certainly doesn't make me worse.

If someone Welsh doesn't want to speak Welsh that's fine by me. But start talking toss about my language and my heritage and your out of order.

"Gwyn, Gwrydd, Coch - Y tair lliw sy'n llifo trwy fy nghorff'

Boris: "I moved here from London and I learnt to speak Welsh"

Thinly veiled: "I'm more Welsh than you, f**k you all you lazy english bastards"

If that's how you choose to construe that, then so be it

Boris: "I moved here from London and I learnt to speak Welsh"

Thinly veiled: "I'm more Welsh than you, f**k you all you lazy english bastards"

What makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up the most?

God Save The Queen

or

Hen Wlad fy nghadau ???

The continuous point being brought up whenever one of these threads pops up is 'If Welsh is so great why aren't we speaking it on here'....

Because if we were you wouldn't be part of the conversation.

I was out on the town last night (in Cardiff) and had a full blown conversation in Welsh with 3 strangers. I love the fact I can speak Welsh. It's part of my identity. I doesn't make me a better person or a better Welshman. But it certainly doesn't make me worse.

If someone Welsh doesn't want to speak Welsh that's fine by me. But start talking toss about my language and my heritage and your out of order.

"Gwyn, Gwrydd, Coch - Y tair lliw sy'n llifo trwy fy nghorff'

reason your not speaking it on here is because the majority dont speak it. That is why welsh news channels and newspapers are in engish as well. the sooner we start building an industry and put the language to bed the better.

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

Haha seriously. f*cking plaid are no more than nationalists, who say the most utter bullshit. walg es could ne.ver run itself end of, no Cardiff in the English system then.
We would be on our knees if we tried running ourselves and i bet secretly England would like to see the back of the whingers who want independance but have no clue to how we would survive.
Yes we could all survive by speaking welsh more ffs outdated shit

The continuous point being brought up whenever one of these threads pops up is 'If Welsh is so great why aren't we speaking it on here'....

Because if we were you wouldn't be part of the conversation.

I was out on the town last night (in Cardiff) and had a full blown conversation in Welsh with 3 strangers. I love the fact I can speak Welsh. It's part of my identity. I doesn't make me a better person or a better Welshman. But it certainly doesn't make me worse.

If someone Welsh doesn't want to speak Welsh that's fine by me. But start talking toss about my language and my heritage and your out of order.

"Gwyn, Gwrydd, Coch - Y tair lliw sy'n llifo trwy fy nghorff'

reason your not speaking it on here is because the majority dont speak it. That is why welsh news channels and newspapers are in engish as well. the sooner we start building an industry and put the language to bed the better.

Put the language to bed eh?

The language will outlive you, your Grandchildren, and their Grandchildren.

It outlived Longshanks

It outlived the fuckers who made Welsh Children wear wooden crosses round their
necks saying 'Welsh Not'

It will outlive Thatcher who gave it her best shot to go back on her word re: a Welsh
Language Channel

Incidentally, It will even outlive your neighbours in Llanrumney because there is something
like a three year waiting list to get into that Welsh Medium Junior School near Ball Road??

Thats NON-Welsh speaking parents with a bit of pride in their culture wanting to pass it
down to their kids....

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

Haha seriously. f*cking plaid are no more than nationalists, who say the most utter bullshit. walg es could ne.ver run itself end of, no Cardiff in the English system then.
We would be on our knees if we tried running ourselves and i bet secretly England would like to see the back of the whingers who want independance but have no clue to how we would survive.
Yes we could all survive by speaking welsh more ffs outdated shit

What a totally outdated post, what century are you living in friend? The political map of Europe has changed over the last 20 years and is still changing. For Yugoslavia we now have Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia etc, these countries not much bigger than Wales. for the USSR we now have Latvia, Estonia etc again countries about the same population as Wales. Last week we had 1 million people protesting in Barcelona demanding Catalonia's freedom from Spain. Small is beautiful my friend!
Wales was the first country to fall to England's empire are we destined to be the last to break free!

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

Haha seriously. f*cking plaid are no more than nationalists, who say the most utter bullshit. walg es could ne.ver run itself end of, no Cardiff in the English system then.
We would be on our knees if we tried running ourselves and i bet secretly England would like to see the back of the whingers who want independance but have no clue to how we would survive.
Yes we could all survive by speaking welsh more ffs outdated shit

Oh dear what a pathetic brainwashed by the english response.

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

English Nazis? By f**k i'm Welsh and proud your the one wanting to rid Wales of all English people, your racist posts on here make me laugh, your wife must have been playing away with Dave the Englishmen as that's the only reason you could be so bitter towards a group of people.

All those crying out for independence can never answer the question "How will we pay for it all"? The silence is deafening. Cries of "WE HAVE WATER WE CAN SELL!!1!" time for a reality check. But Wales is ripe for independence isn't it? It's not as if we have one of the largest percentage of people working in the public sector or the largest amount of jobless, dole bums but lets not let decent facts get in the way of a good arguement. Most on here do not realise England has SUBSIDISED us for years and years. That's not bowing down to them that's me being a REALIST and deep down the nationalists f*cking know it.

The over-riding response from the anti-Welsh language brigade is that they are OH SO PROUD
of their Welsh Heritage. But that the Language is out-dated and of no use to them.

nobody is asking them to speak it?

Any more than they are asking them to paddle to work in a coracle.

The Welsh language is THE reason Wales still has its own identity. The Normans flooded
Wales and Wales was almost drowned in a sea of bastardised cultures. But the Welsh
would not give up the language. It angered a succession of English Kings. They tried to
ban it. Ban the written word. But the Bible was written in Welsh hundreds of years ago
and the Welsh would not succumb. War after war after war. Always centred round the
Welsh refusing to give up the language. 'Wales' is actually a Germanic word meaning
'foreigner' (see back then, the english language was still in its infancy) The English
were so f*cking fed up of the belligerent Welsh that they tried to breed us out, and
Welsh people (The Tudors) even took over the English throne and STILL they couldn't
budge the Welsh. It wasnt about potatoes, peat or copper mines. Wales was on the
border. Far to close for comfort to London and STILL the fuckers insisted on speaking
their own language.

We are a belligerent, argumentative, take no shit, take on all-comers type of people.

Does anyone else need a clue where that stems from??

Its not from eating seaweed!!

"i'm proud of my Welsh Heritage" .... They say...

But switch the telly off when "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" comes on in the Rugby

Yeh righto... do they f**k!!

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

English Nazis? By f**k i'm Welsh and proud your the one wanting to rid Wales of all English people, your racist posts on here make me laugh, your wife must have been playing away with Dave the Englishmen as that's the only reason you could be so bitter towards a group of people.

All those crying out for independence can never answer the question "How will we pay for it all"? The silence is deafening. Cries of "WE HAVE WATER WE CAN SELL!!1!" time for a reality check. But Wales is ripe for independence isn't it? It's not as if we have one of the largest percentage of people working in the public sector or the largest amount of jobless, dole bums but lets not let decent facts get in the way of a good arguement. Most on here do not realise England has SUBSIDISED us for years and years. That's not bowing down to them that's me being a REALIST and deep down the nationalists f*cking know it.

Where has anyone said 'English out"

YOU are the one who starts threads about 'send them back'

You say 'Britain is the sum of all its parts'....'we are as one, and proud'

.... then say England has been subsidising Wales for years?????

If anyone has been subsidising anyone, its been the Scots

You shout, make noise, but every argument you come up with falls on its arse
because your actually not very bright my friend

Never said send them back, I say stop letting them in. Big difference there. So proud of your Welsh roots that you decided to move to Saudi Arabia. Just like all those famous Scotsmen Alex Sammond and the rest of the SNP wheeled out, all live and work abroad.

Again you have decided to ignore the question at hand and concentrate on the minutiae of my post. Lets say Scotland have been subsidising Wales, doesn't that pose an even more bleak future for a country in light of the referendum up there in the next few years? Where are we going to find the money to support ourselves alone? Answer that question and what you say may hold some water but I expect some more nit picking and drivel from you.

just like any nationalist, your views are full of dreams (nightmares for most), fantasies and illusions without a shred of realism.

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

Labour haven't done a bad job, free prescriptions, uni cap £3000 etc.

The over-riding response from the anti-Welsh language brigade is that they are OH SO PROUD
of their Welsh Heritage. But that the Language is out-dated and of no use to them.

nobody is asking them to speak it?

Any more than they are asking them to paddle to work in a coracle.

The Welsh language is THE reason Wales still has its own identity. The Normans flooded
Wales and Wales was almost drowned in a sea of bastardised cultures. But the Welsh
would not give up the language. It angered a succession of English Kings. They tried to
ban it. Ban the written word. But the Bible was written in Welsh hundreds of years ago
and the Welsh would not succumb. War after war after war. Always centred round the
Welsh refusing to give up the language. 'Wales' is actually a Germanic word meaning
'foreigner' (see back then, the english language was still in its infancy) The English
were so f*cking fed up of the belligerent Welsh that they tried to breed us out, and
Welsh people (The Tudors) even took over the English throne and STILL they couldn't
budge the Welsh. It wasnt about potatoes, peat or copper mines. Wales was on the
border. Far to close for comfort to London and STILL the fuckers insisted on speaking
their own language.

We are a belligerent, argumentative, take no shit, take on all-comers type of people.

Does anyone else need a clue where that stems from??

Its not from eating seaweed!!

"i'm proud of my Welsh Heritage" .... They say...

But switch the telly off when "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" comes on in the Rugby

Yeh righto... do they f**k!!

f*cking hell I'm right. This is definetaly the blue vs red debate all over again! There's brigades now!

And yet again, I dont fall in either category.

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

English Nazis? By f**k i'm Welsh and proud your the one wanting to rid Wales of all English people, your racist posts on here make me laugh, your wife must have been playing away with Dave the Englishmen as that's the only reason you could be so bitter towards a group of people.

All those crying out for independence can never answer the question "How will we pay for it all"? The silence is deafening. Cries of "WE HAVE WATER WE CAN SELL!!1!" time for a reality check. But Wales is ripe for independence isn't it? It's not as if we have one of the largest percentage of people working in the public sector or the largest amount of jobless, dole bums but lets not let decent facts get in the way of a good arguement. Most on here do not realise England has SUBSIDISED us for years and years. That's not bowing down to them that's me being a REALIST and deep down the nationalists f*cking know it.

I'm amazed by you outdated and incorrect posts. 'Subsidised us for years' what utter bollocks!!!
Wales has been recognised as one of the poorer regions in Europe, that is why we have been having objective one money for years. In all other countries this money is match funded by the government. (Remember the Celtic tiger in Ireland) Westminster has refused to match fund this money. that's why we're still one of the poorest regions in Europe, yet over the border not too far away you have some of the wealthiest areas in Europe. Subsidised my arse!

Never said send them back, I say stop letting them in. Big difference there. So proud of your Welsh roots that you decided to move to Saudi Arabia. Just like all those famous Scotsmen Alex Sammond and the rest of the SNP wheeled out, all live and work abroad.

Again you have decided to ignore the question at hand and concentrate on the minutiae of my post. Lets say Scotland have been subsidising Wales, doesn't that pose an even more bleak future for a country in light of the referendum up there in the next few years? Where are we going to find the money to support ourselves alone? Answer that question and what you say may hold some water but I expect some more nit picking and drivel from you.

just like any nationalist, your views are full of dreams (nightmares for most), fantasies and illusions without a shred of realism.

Again. you f**k up.

Im a Welsh Nationalist. An idealist. I love the idea of self-determination

But do not think Welsh independance would work and you can check every single thread on
the subject and I'll say the same thing.

you say ENGLAND has subsidised Wales for years. Yet in the next breath say we're all equal
partners in this Union. Seeing as we're equal partners, perhaps the Welsh Steel and coal that
helped fuel the Industrial Revolution is a debt the 'rest of the union' is still repaying Wales????
Perhaps we're still in credit??

I work in Saudi, will be here for another 16 months. That has what exactly to do with this????

I love my country, but I've worked away a lot. My money is sent home and still gets spent in the
Welsh economy. and I will one day retire in the land of my birth, and I will speak my language
when and where I please and give not a toss to some ignorant person saying "cant be doing with
that dead language"... Because I will never mug off a fellow Welsh person for NOT speaking it

Again.... do you like the Welsh National Anthem.... or does it make you vomit??

How are we going to fund Independence stop concerning yourself with the minutiae and answer the real question.

Yes I like the national anthem and make an effort to sing it, I am proud to be Welsh, you seem to be ignoring that statement. I am also proud to be apart of the Union. You see inequalities within boroughs in London so it's a mute point, some areas in Wales are worse off than others, just look at the funding for the Valleys and the communities south of the M4 compared to Cardiff and Newport. Do you want those areas to be an Independent too?

I cringe at people who think we are being oppressed, go to Zimbabwe, Sudan and the Syria to see some real oppression. Some fuckers do not know their born.

How are we going to fund Independence stop concerning yourself with the minutiae and answer the real question.

Yes I like the national anthem and make an effort to sing it, I am proud to be Welsh, you seem to be ignoring that statement. I am also proud to be apart of the Union. You see inequalities within boroughs in London so it's a mute point, some areas in Wales are worse off than others, just look at the funding for the Valleys and the communities south of the M4 compared to Cardiff and Newport. Do you want those areas to be an Independent too?

I cringe at people who think we are being oppressed, go to Zimbabwe, Sudan and the Syria to see some real oppression. Some fuckers do not know their born.

I ANSWERED your question.

I dont think Independance for Wales will work

when I say I am a Welsh Nationalist, it means I believe Wales should be self-sufficient. A separate
entity, but an equal part of the Isles of Great Britain. Sadly, i cant see it working. I've never said
any different.

The Welsh National Anthem is one song. Keep practicing. Its awe inspiring, particularly when you
are joining in yourself.

How are we going to fund Independence stop concerning yourself with the minutiae and answer the real question.

Yes I like the national anthem and make an effort to sing it, I am proud to be Welsh, you seem to be ignoring that statement. I am also proud to be apart of the Union. You see inequalities within boroughs in London so it's a mute point, some areas in Wales are worse off than others, just look at the funding for the Valleys and the communities south of the M4 compared to Cardiff and Newport. Do you want those areas to be an Independent too?

I cringe at people who think we are being oppressed, go to Zimbabwe, Sudan and the Syria to see some real oppression. Some fuckers do not know their born.

I dont think Independance for Wales will work

That's all I wanted to know, this is what this thread is about. I apologise for bringing up the language, I should have known better. It is shame that on both sides of the debate the language is used to point score.

How are we going to fund Independence stop concerning yourself with the minutiae and answer the real question.

Yes I like the national anthem and make an effort to sing it, I am proud to be Welsh, you seem to be ignoring that statement. I am also proud to be apart of the Union. You see inequalities within boroughs in London so it's a mute point, some areas in Wales are worse off than others, just look at the funding for the Valleys and the communities south of the M4 compared to Cardiff and Newport. Do you want those areas to be an Independent too?

I cringe at people who think we are being oppressed, go to Zimbabwe, Sudan and the Syria to see some real oppression. Some fuckers do not know their born.

I dont think Independance for Wales will work

That's all I wanted to know, this is what this thread is about. I apologise for bringing up the language, I should have known better. It is shame that on both sides of the debate the language is used to point score.

Well i apologise if i get personal. To me the language is a very personal thing.

Lets call it a night eh

The continuous point being brought up whenever one of these threads pops up is 'If Welsh is so great why aren't we speaking it on here'....

Because if we were you wouldn't be part of the conversation.

I was out on the town last night (in Cardiff) and had a full blown conversation in Welsh with 3 strangers. I love the fact I can speak Welsh. It's part of my identity. I doesn't make me a better person or a better Welshman. But it certainly doesn't make me worse.

If someone Welsh doesn't want to speak Welsh that's fine by me. But start talking toss about my language and my heritage and your out of order.

"Gwyn, Gwrydd, Coch - Y tair lliw sy'n llifo trwy fy nghorff'

reason your not speaking it on here is because the majority dont speak it. That is why welsh news channels and newspapers are in engish as well. the sooner we start building an industry and put the language to bed the better.

So like I said, If this was in Welsh then you wouldn't be part of the conversation because you wouldn't understand it. Trust me, I'd prefer it if you weren't part of the conversation. Maybe that way some sense could be distributed in a logical manner instead of bullshit being heave-hoed around a forum like the 7 dwarves on coke.

Stop speaking shit then. wales will never govern itself end of, we have not got the industry for a start. The language is all nationalists bang on about. bring something to the table to show that wales could survive by itself

I'm learning the language and proud of it. Its growing and as for the 'English Nazi's' who always discourage the language as they ARE TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT………they're dinosaurs and in the grand scheme of things quite irrelevant.

Always voted for Plaid as they are the only welsh political party and certainly the only one with our interests at heart. As for the 'we've always voted labour' brigade…….don't get me started on these idiots. Roll on full Independence.

English Nazis? By f**k i'm Welsh and proud your the one wanting to rid Wales of all English people, your racist posts on here make me laugh, your wife must have been playing away with Dave the Englishmen as that's the only reason you could be so bitter towards a group of people.

All those crying out for independence can never answer the question "How will we pay for it all"? The silence is deafening. Cries of "WE HAVE WATER WE CAN SELL!!1!" time for a reality check. But Wales is ripe for independence isn't it? It's not as if we have one of the largest percentage of people working in the public sector or the largest amount of jobless, dole bums but lets not let decent facts get in the way of a good arguement. Most on here do not realise England has SUBSIDISED us for years and years. That's not bowing down to them that's me being a REALIST and deep down the nationalists f*cking know it.

* IGNORE* The village idiot is back.