A QUESTION RE VT INVESTMENT

So the question remains VT rebrand for investment or liquidation if that was the case back before they come in or have people forgot this question already in this thread lots of ifs and buts, maybes, but very few seem to answer the question put to them.

When we first heard of their intereset in backing our club at the critical time they did, if they had said one of the conditions was the rebrand, how many do you think would have turned it down considering the only other likely outcome was liquidation, especially after our joking Jersey millionaire Ben Steele fecked off after his free day out on our expense.

Try and keep comments serious and realistic and make it an healthy debate (Annis needs lot's of hits for the revenue, the holiday is costing him more than he thought, he didn't realise Carl could drink so much so if not for me ,do it for Annis's account. (bank account )

Forget about Ben Steele - It would have been a similar situation to Black Friday however there is a big difference - It would have been administarion ,with the Administrator taking over the running of the club trying to negotiate a settlement with the creditors but also being charged to find a buyer for the club.

The difference is that we had sellable assets Stadium & playing staff - There was not a cat in hells chance we would have been liquidated

To get out of admin, you have to reach agreement with 60% of the debtors to accept X pence in the pound, now Langston being the biggest creditor and unsecured, could you honestly see them accepting pennies or saying well f**k you.

If we were liquidated they would get pennies though

When we first heard of their intereset in backing our club at the critical time they did, if they had said one of the conditions was the rebrand, how many do you think would have turned it down considering the only other likely outcome was liquidation, especially after our joking Jersey millionaire Ben Steele fecked off after his free day out on our expense.

Try and keep comments serious and realistic and make it an healthy debate (Annis needs lot's of hits for the revenue, the holiday is costing him more than he thought, he didn't realise Carl could drink so much so if not for me ,do it for Annis's account. (bank account )

Forget about Ben Steele - It would have been a similar situation to Black Friday however there is a big difference - It would have been administarion ,with the Administrator taking over the running of the club trying to negotiate a settlement with the creditors but also being charged to find a buyer for the club.

The difference is that we had sellable assets Stadium & playing staff - There was not a cat in hells chance we would have been liquidated

To get out of admin, you have to reach agreement with 60% of the debtors to accept X pence in the pound, now Langston being the biggest creditor and unsecured, could you honestly see them accepting pennies or saying well f**k you.

To get out of Administration by way of a CVA (which is the route the League insists on) you have to have 75% in value of unsecured creditor votes in favour (debtors don`t come into it).

Langston are currently the biggest value unsecured creditor but , to protect their position (and because they don`t trust Sam as far as they could throw him) , Cardiff Council have a clause in the lease agreement for the ground that , on any insolvency , they would become the biggest unsecured creditor and would therefore control the CVA vote.

So, and genuine question Keith, could we go into and come of admin fairly easily, also is there as I understand a complication nowadays with a Welsh club getting back into the English pyramid if we liquidated and reformed or went into admin?

There's all us fans arguing over all the bollox under the sun and you musst be hovering waiting fora pot with the words, finance, investment or money in the title.

Its never easy getting out of Administration because of the high level of creditor approval you need and , with football clubs , the two extra problems you face are

1) the" supercreditor" rule the football authorities impose which means all football creditors have to be paid out of the assets before anyone else.This will include all player wages and bonuses, any transfer fees owed etc. One of the problems facing my former partners dealing with Portsmouth has been the huge level of this type of debt before the players started agreeing to leave .

2) usually high levels of creditors who are secured - i.e have the right to proceeds of sale of assets before the voting unsecured creditors. In CCFC`s case this now of course includes a big debt due to VT and his associates , PMG and Player Finance Fund 1

The above two prior claims mean that there is often little or nothing left in the pot for other creditors in a football insolvency - most deals have been struck at between 5p and 10p in the £. Creditors , particularly people like HMRC, are getting increasingly fed up of this and could well vote against a CVA proposal as a matter of principle rather than just get a measly payout.

So its not easy , but still far better than liquidation , because that means ceasing to trade , losing any value in the playing squad because their contracts become void and , as you say , having to go cap in hand to the football authorities for a place low down in the football pyramid for a newly reformed club.

Personally I can`t see any way VT would want to be seen to be associated with a business failure due to the huge problems that would cause him with loss of "face" back home in the Malaysian business community.


Keith

P.S. Ben Steele was from Guernsey not Jersey but I agree with you he was a total waste of space and one of Ridsdale`s bigger judgement errors even by his standards. I remember it well at the time , because Steele had previously shown an interest in Southampton F.C.when it was in Administrataion and was bragging about how wealthy he was.Two phone calls to my then work colleagues in Guernsey and to to Southampton`s Administrator made it very clear that Steele was a total waster and worth nothing like what he claimed (it was mainly his Dad`s money tied up in Trusts and property anyway).

I happened to have a Trust meeting with Ridsdale shortly after and told him this. His only response was to tell me off for not telling him about this earlier. My response (polite as usual) was that I was not being paid £500k a year by the club to make two phone calls which he could have done himself.

When we first heard of their intereset in backing our club at the critical time they did, if they had said one of the conditions was the rebrand, how many do you think would have turned it down considering the only other likely outcome was liquidation, especially after our joking Jersey millionaire Ben Steele fecked off after his free day out on our expense.

Try and keep comments serious and realistic and make it an healthy debate (Annis needs lot's of hits for the revenue, the holiday is costing him more than he thought, he didn't realise Carl could drink so much so if not for me ,do it for Annis's account. (bank account )

Gwyn,
I am a strong Believer that we should be Playing in Blue at home.
However to answer your question , if at the outset the Malaysians said we will Invest , Clear the debt , but the compromise is we will play in Red at Home. I would have accepted it reluctantly , because the bottom line is the Club has to come first and has to survive.
My real grouse with this whole situation , which lets face it has caused a huge split in the Fanbase , Is why didnt the Investors , just be open about the ReBrand and canvass opinion of the customer base. ie Season Ticket Holders , Ambassador etc.
If they had done that and still decided to play in Red , then I personally would have found it easier to accept. as at least we could have given an opinion, instead of just being told its red end of!



Not having a dig, but are you saying that if they had balloted the fans, and a majority had said no, and they had still gone ahead with it, you would have been OK with it, because I think personally it would have pissed more off than it as even this way, can you imagine the fans saying, why ask if you ain't going to listen. The truth is, they own the business and we are customers, if they piss off the customers enough, then the customers will walk, so far fifty have walked and a few hundred others wont buy merchandise, the Malaysians have made a decision, and they will stand or fall by it.



[color=#FF0000] Gwyn ,

Even though they would be still pissed off as am I , at least they would have had some Input.
I believe the Malaysians would do it differently if they could turn back the clock , and possiblyInclude the fans , they may have arrived at the same decision , or a different end product that they launched, that could have been an acceptable compromise to the majority of Fans, and the Fans would have had their say.
I accept that after the event we are in a no win situation , cos some people are happy and some are Not.
I also respect your point of view on the fact that ultimately the Malaysians own the Club and can do what they want.

I do an awful lot of business myself in Asia and do understand the significance of Red and how the Asian people see it as very lucky and honourable so I get the reason for a Red Shirt.

But I really struggle to understand why we couldnt have Blue at Home and Red away , that way everyone wins!!
I will be at every game and will support the Boys 100 per cent , there will be no protesting for me whilst the team are on the pitch. And anyone who does that ,in game time is an idiot.
Bluebrd For Life,
Steve

so if not for me ,do it for Annis's account. (bank account )

Feck me Gwyn you expect people to do it so that Annis' account with Coutts gets even more dough in it. Hardly skint is he, and Carl having a few cheeky vimto's isn't going to be like having bottles of Cristal in Mayfair is it

Why are we talking about a hypothetical point here Gwyn what is the point if and buts who cares.

Who still supported the club when he did say the re brand is off and we will remain blue ? all of us did mate .

What happened when the re brand went ahead? we all went in different directions and are now divided into red and blue camps.

If we went into admin which Tan said would not happen then at least we would all be together as fans and not arguing between ourselves all the time .

The re brand has its advantages but the disadvantages for me for out way advantages .What you are talking about is hypothetical nonsense mate.