please lose england

wouldnt say it was a great game, too many easy mistakes on both sides, but a great game to watch. entertaining and the goal of the tournament, so far

wouldnt say it was a great game, too many easy mistakes on both sides, but a great game to watch. entertaining and the goal of the tournament, so far

entertaining is the right word hof,enjoyed watching it.could have easily been a draw or gone the other way.

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

you're talkin to me? my dad's sudeten-german if ur so intrested in my heritage...

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

you're talkin to me? my dad's sudeten-german if ur so intrested in my heritage...

Think he may mean Blazing Saddles mate!

Ist alles gut?

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

you're talkin to me? my dad's sudeten-german if ur so intrested in my heritage...

Think he may mean Blazing Saddles mate!

Ist alles gut?

alles ok...wasnt sure if he meant me, but as my second name actually is Himmler...

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

you're talkin to me? my dad's sudeten-german if ur so intrested in my heritage...

Hi Hofmeister - so I take it your Father's family were from the Sudentenland.

I've no links to Germany myself, other than loving German classical music, but I have loved Beethoven/Wagner since I was a teenager, so have always felt a massive affinity for Germany, and always support them in football (unless they're playing Wales, of course).

I was actually at the final in Wembley in Euro 1996 when Germany defeated the Czech Republic - If I'm correct in my Sudetenland point above, would there have been any divided loyalties for you in that game, or would you have been fully behind Germany? I certainly was (although I quite like the Czech Republic as well) and was quite vocal in cheering Germany on in that game, surrounded by many English fans, who were supporting the Czech Republic.

I have a suspicion that Blazing Himmlers father was English and abandoned him at a young age.

you're talkin to me? my dad's sudeten-german if ur so intrested in my heritage...

Hi Hofmeister - so I take it your Father's family were from the Sudentenland.

I've no links to Germany myself, other than loving German classical music, but I have loved Beethoven/Wagner since I was a teenager, so have always felt a massive affinity for Germany, and always support them in football (unless they're playing Wales, of course).

I was actually at the final in Wembley in Euro 1996 when Germany defeated the Czech Republic - If I'm correct in my Sudetenland point above, would there have been any divided loyalties for you in that game, or would you have been fully behind Germany? I certainly was (although I quite like the Czech Republic as well) and was quite vocal in cheering Germany on in that game, surrounded by many English fans, who were supporting the Czech Republic.

no divided loyalties at all. 100% German...
the Sudetengermans were forced to leave their homes after the eastern front collapsed. My Dad was 4 at the time, he along with my uncle and my Granny had a visit of a Czech militia who told them "you leave this house in one hour, or you'll be dead".
So they grabbed all they could and off they went. Could tell you a few stories of how the allies treated German refugees, but its all history. Just glad there were decent blokes as well, my family (incl. the kids) were about to get executed, they even lined them up against the wall with a machine gun set up, when a young Czech officer stepped forward and saved them (cos he knew my Granddad).
they survived the Dresden bombing afterwards, went to the western part afterwards, got shot at by the western allies as well (when their convoy got attacked by Sptfires, despite they carried a huge red cross flag). Everybody fled into the fields and the planes came back to shoot at the folks running. They killed several, my uncle (who was 11 at the time) escaped lucky, a bullet went through his thigh...
that's all history now, but the sad thing is you never hear these stories. There's no excuse for stuff like that, nor the mass murder of millions of people by the Nazis or the millions who died because of the war. Wars turn men into monsters, sometimes. I got strong feelings about this stuff, thats why I cant hear this crap anymore, "soldiers are heroes"...
there are decent men doing a splendid job, thats right. But there're also a right bunch of bastards out there as well, and I cannot condone or support wars. The ordinary people suffer the most, regardless of their nationality.

no divided loyalties at all. 100% German...
the Sudetengermans were forced to leave their homes after the eastern front collapsed. My Dad was 4 at the time, he along with my uncle and my Granny had a visit of a Czech militia who told them "you leave this house in one hour, or you'll be dead".
So they grabbed all they could and off they went. Could tell you a few stories of how the allies treated German refugees, but its all history. Just glad there were decent blokes as well, my family (incl. the kids) were about to get executed, they even lined them up against the wall with a machine gun set up, when a young Czech officer stepped forward and saved them (cos he knew my Granddad).
they survived the Dresden bombing afterwards, went to the western part afterwards, got shot at by the western allies as well (when their convoy got attacked by Sptfires, despite they carried a huge red cross flag). Everybody fled into the fields and the planes came back to shoot at the folks running. They killed several, my uncle (who was 11 at the time) escaped lucky, a bullet went through his thigh...
that's all history now, but the sad thing is you never hear these stories. There's no excuse for stuff like that, nor the mass murder of millions of people by the Nazis or the millions who died because of the war. Wars turn men into monsters, sometimes. I got strong feelings about this stuff, thats why I cant hear this crap anymore, "soldiers are heroes"...
there are decent men doing a splendid job, thats right. But there're also a right bunch of bastards out there as well, and I cannot condone or support wars. The ordinary people suffer the most, regardless of their nationality.

That's very interesting Hofmeister.

I'm aware of some of the history around what happened to the German people in the Sudetenland at the end of the war, and it's terrible. In fact, the amount of suffering that the German (and Japanese) people went through in the war is largely ignored by most, and you really have to dig deep to find out about it. As we know, the history books are written by the victors and do not tell the whole story.

I feel for what happened to your family, and I'm so pleased that they appeared to survive at the end.

Thanks for the response - it was fascinating to hear your family's story.

And I'm fully behind Germany in this tournament - I was delighted to be there when you won the Euro's in 1996 and I'd love to see you win this tournament as well

People still in this thread

People still in this thread

you still are

well done england

People still in this thread

you still are

Well its my thread

well done england

It's a very long way to go them yet though.

I'd be gutted if they did really well mind

People still in this thread

you still are

Well its my thread

fair comment

And we're in agreement in not wanting them to do well

That's very interesting Hofmeister.

I'm aware of some of the history around what happened to the German people in the Sudetenland at the end of the war, and it's terrible. In fact, the amount of suffering that the German (and Japanese) people went through in the war is largely ignored by most, and you really have to dig deep to find out about it. As we know, the history books are written by the victors and do not tell the whole story.

I feel for what happened to your family, and I'm so pleased that they appeared to survive at the end.

Thanks for the response - it was fascinating to hear your family's story.

And I'm fully behind Germany in this tournament - I was delighted to be there when you won the Euro's in 1996 and I'd love to see you win this tournament as well

football is football and not a substitute for war (as some of the british media make it when we play england).
I was glad too, altho I wasnt too happy how we played but winning it on English soil is special (esp. after 1966).

I know the whole of England wanted us to lose, especially after we beat after penalties

but the reason is different: the english have that complex with germany, winning 2 world wars etc (altho not mentioning the yanks or the russians of course), cos everyone knows it was just england...

england is our rival, not because of the 2 wars, one reason is 1966 (where we feel we were robbed as the 3rd was never in) and because we have a few memorable games v england in the past: 1970 world cup game, 1990 semifinal etc.
that's why we consider them a strong force and england v germany are usually good and entertaining games.

but our biggest rival isnt england, the biggest is Holland, then its Italy, England and Austria.

But they are for footballing reasons, not politics, which shouldnt play a part in our beautiful game.

you are right, these stories about how german civilians were treated are not known. german women and young girls raped, or children just murdered. dont think the allied soldiers behaved differently than the germans when they invaded the eastern countries. as i said before, some decent men amongst them, but also complete scum...regardless of their nationality...

also, Reichsmarschall Goering rightly got sentenced at the Nuremburg trials (altho he committed suicide before they could hang him), I missed the Bomber Harris trial... he ordered the mass murder of german civilians, the Coventry Bliz or London were the same warcrimes as Dresden, Breslau, Cologne or Wuerzburg.

watched a programme on the box a few months back about these events, they had ex RAF men interviewed who feel guilty because they took part in that, because they pulled the trigger and let the bombs drop. unknown to me, some even commited suicide because of dresden...

Wars are terrible things, just horror. we like watching war movies in our armchairs or (like myself) play "call of duty". but they are fiction, not real. I dont want any soldier going to fight in a foreign land, send the boys home. My 2 Grandfathers fought in WW2, you think they enjoied that? They had no choice, either u go or ur getting shot. Both survived, my dad's dad was an officer on the eastern front and before they got overrun his commander ordered him to the western front. that was because of our family name, he knew with that name the russians wouldnt take im him as POW. If you want, I can tell u a seperate true story about my grand uncle, who didnt survive the war.

I hate the people who generalize other people or have prejudices, its so stupid and ignorant. My Dad alsways taught me never ever to behave and think like that. He said: "Czechs wanted to murder me - other Czechs saved my life, your uncle Walter got shot by a British soldier - and British soldiers helped us with food after the war. There good and bad ones on every side, in every country, in every race..."

He's right.

That's very interesting Hofmeister.

I'm aware of some of the history around what happened to the German people in the Sudetenland at the end of the war, and it's terrible. In fact, the amount of suffering that the German (and Japanese) people went through in the war is largely ignored by most, and you really have to dig deep to find out about it. As we know, the history books are written by the victors and do not tell the whole story.

I feel for what happened to your family, and I'm so pleased that they appeared to survive at the end.

Thanks for the response - it was fascinating to hear your family's story.

And I'm fully behind Germany in this tournament - I was delighted to be there when you won the Euro's in 1996 and I'd love to see you win this tournament as well

football is football and not a substitute for war (as some of the british media make it when we play england).
I was glad too, altho I wasnt too happy how we played but winning it on English soil is special (esp. after 1966).

I know the whole of England wanted us to lose, especially after we beat after penalties

but the reason is different: the english have that complex with germany, winning 2 world wars etc (altho not mentioning the yanks or the russians of course), cos everyone knows it was just england...

england is our rival, not because of the 2 wars, one reason is 1966 (where we feel we were robbed as the 3rd was never in) and because we have a few memorable games v england in the past: 1970 world cup game, 1990 semifinal etc.
that's why we consider them a strong force and england v germany are usually good and entertaining games.

but our biggest rival isnt england, the biggest is Holland, then its Italy, England and Austria.

But they are for footballing reasons, not politics, which shouldnt play a part in our beautiful game.

you are right, these stories about how german civilians were treated are not known. german women and young girls raped, or children just murdered. dont think the allied soldiers behaved differently than the germans when they invaded the eastern countries. as i said before, some decent men amongst them, but also complete scum...regardless of their nationality...

also, Reichsmarschall Goering rightly got sentenced at the Nuremburg trials (altho he committed suicide before they could hang him), I missed the Bomber Harris trial... he ordered the mass murder of german civilians, the Coventry Bliz or London were the same warcrimes as Dresden, Breslau, Cologne or Wuerzburg.

watched a programme on the box a few months back about these events, they had ex RAF men interviewed who feel guilty because they took part in that, because they pulled the trigger and let the bombs drop. unknown to me, some even commited suicide because of dresden...

Wars are terrible things, just horror. we like watching war movies in our armchairs or (like myself) play "call of duty". but they are fiction, not real. I dont want any soldier going to fight in a foreign land, send the boys home. My 2 Grandfathers fought in WW2, you think they enjoied that? They had no choice, either u go or ur getting shot. Both survived, my dad's dad was an officer on the eastern front and before they got overrun his commander ordered him to the western front. that was because of our family name, he knew with that name the russians wouldnt take im him as POW. If you want, I can tell u a seperate true story about my grand uncle, who didnt survive the war.

I hate the people who generalize other people or have prejudices, its so stupid and ignorant. My Dad alsways taught me never ever to behave and think like that. He said: "Czechs wanted to murder me - other Czechs saved my life, your uncle Walter got shot by a British soldier - and British soldiers helped us with food after the war. There good and bad ones on every side, in every country, in every race..."

He's right.

Yes, I agree with you - people are people and should be judged on what they do, not on what their nationality is.

I could never join any army willingly, as by doing so, you effectively put yourself in the position of having to do what someone else orders you to do, and if that is something you feel morally wrong (like the bombing of Dresden), you either have to do it, or face all manner of problems.

I do respect many individuals who have risked their lives in conflicts whilst acting honourably themselves, but for everyone like that, I'm aware that there are many others (in virtually any conflict and for all sides) who use the opportunities war affords to wreak havoc and horror on innocent people.

Dresden is one example of this, but there are countless other examples of savagery which will probably never be told publically that are horrendous from the 2nd World War and perpetrated by the 'allies'.

I'm aware of some of the horros perpetrated in Germany in 1945, and there were also horrendous things done to the Japanese civilians at the same time by allied troops.

As I said above, the victors however get to write the history books and its usually the foe that is demonised in accounts of barbarity.

--

On the football front, I think Germany will definitely beat Greece and should progress to the final - although I am slighly concerned baout Italy, as I think they could be a tricky semi-final tie. If its a Germay-Spain final, I think this time Germany will win, as this German team is developing more strenghts all the time, and the defeat of 4 years ago and the semi-final defeat in teh World Cup will be a spur on to ensure this time it's different. The team I'd be slighly worried about in the final would be Portugal, as that was a tough first game in the group.

---------

Thanks for sharing some of the details from your family background with me - I'm so pleased that there were some good experiences with some individuals in amongst the bad experiences there for your family.

I have a swedish strain in me, but e]England have been playing alrite fair do's.

Walcott and the ox on the wings is a scary, dangerous attacking force which is makes it likely to think even the very best teams should be afraid of. Walcott in particular had Sweden scared stiff from the first time he touched the ball, and the ox pulled some dangerous runs against the French. IF Rooney decides to turn up (im suspicious of how seriously he takes international football), attacking England have the potential to break anyone.

What I'm saying is, of England's defence becomes like it did against France (minus being too deep), and their attack stays as it was against Sweden, then who knows.

But - I have money on Germany to win with Gomez for the golden boot, so I may be a Hippocrite.

Lets hope they get turned over again this time

Lets hope they get turned over again this time

Cringe...