VT's Great mall of China - 100 million in catchment area

5 years of £18 million shortfall = £75 million debt.

If you are going to lecture on finance at least get your maths right 5 x £18m = £90m

Yep your right, gave the answer based on losing £1.2 million per month.

even more worrying.

I'm not sure that VT puts in £1.2m every month. From February to April we take in around £5m in season ticket sales and in other months we get TV payments.

I pretty sure that part of the money advanced also goes towards settling historic debt, so while the amount owed to VT goes up, what we owe to other creditors goes down.

Finally the PMG debt has only 18 months to run at which point another £8m would have been wiped from our historical debt.

exactly where is the English second division watched in China?

You are doing this deliberately yes. Surely or are you just being stupid for the sake of it

THE BUSINESS PLAN INVOLVES US GETTING TO THE PREMIERSHIP AND STAYING THERE. MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT ONE DAY.

How long is this plan? Is it plan B, C D. Surely if your plan is based on getting to the PL and staying there its yet another gamble for your franchise.

I am presented with Business Plans on a regular basis and they ALL involve an element of gambling as no one can guarantee what will happen in the future. VT's Business Plan has two very important elements behind it that would result in me saying yes every single time (1) it's VT, a hugely successful businessman, who would be presenting it to me and (2) even more relevant, he is not asking me to give him any money as he will be funding it himself.

Wouldn't mind having ago on the sky loop or pretzel coaster.

exactly where is the English second division watched in China?

You are doing this deliberately yes. Surely or are you just being stupid for the sake of it

THE BUSINESS PLAN INVOLVES US GETTING TO THE PREMIERSHIP AND STAYING THERE. MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT ONE DAY.

How long is this plan? Is it plan B, C D. Surely if your plan is based on getting to the PL and staying there its yet another gamble for your franchise.

I am presented with Business Plans on a regular basis and they ALL involve an element of gambling as no one can guarantee what will happen in the future. VT's Business Plan has two very important elements behind it that would result in me saying yes every single time (1) it's VT, a hugely successful businessman, who would be presenting it to me and (2) even more relevant, he is not asking me to give him any money as he will be funding it himself.

1) is not relevant in the slightest. Sir Alan Sugar has had some major failiures.

2) He wont be funding it himself. He will be funding the initial investment. But increasing our losses as a result and all future losses are ours.

You cant be very helpful when looking at these business plans?

exactly where is the English second division watched in China?

You are doing this deliberately yes. Surely or are you just being stupid for the sake of it

THE BUSINESS PLAN INVOLVES US GETTING TO THE PREMIERSHIP AND STAYING THERE. MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT ONE DAY.

How long is this plan? Is it plan B, C D. Surely if your plan is based on getting to the PL and staying there its yet another gamble for your franchise.

I am presented with Business Plans on a regular basis and they ALL involve an element of gambling as no one can guarantee what will happen in the future. VT's Business Plan has two very important elements behind it that would result in me saying yes every single time (1) it's VT, a hugely successful businessman, who would be presenting it to me and (2) even more relevant, he is not asking me to give him any money as he will be funding it himself.

1) is not relevant in the slightest. Sir Alan Sugar has had some major failiures - strangely Alan Sugar even after his major failures is considered to be a very clever businessman and still manages to get substantial debt funding agreed. That's because the experience and the ability of the people behind a business plan is a very important element of a Business Plan.

2) He wont be funding it himself. He will be funding the initial investment. But increasing our losses as a result and all future losses are ours - well of course like ANY other business plan presented that doesn't work losses will ensue. Does your preferred investor have a magic business plan that guarantees no losses going forward? Wow, I would love to meet him!! As you have said he will be funding the initial investment and paying off the debts in exchange for shares. And your problem with that is?

You cant be very helpful when looking at these business plans? - I can see no businessman would ever visit your door as you haven't a clue what one is let alone how it is made up

exactly where is the English second division watched in China?

You are doing this deliberately yes. Surely or are you just being stupid for the sake of it

THE BUSINESS PLAN INVOLVES US GETTING TO THE PREMIERSHIP AND STAYING THERE. MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT ONE DAY.

How long is this plan? Is it plan B, C D. Surely if your plan is based on getting to the PL and staying there its yet another gamble for your franchise.

I am presented with Business Plans on a regular basis and they ALL involve an element of gambling as no one can guarantee what will happen in the future. VT's Business Plan has two very important elements behind it that would result in me saying yes every single time (1) it's VT, a hugely successful businessman, who would be presenting it to me and (2) even more relevant, he is not asking me to give him any money as he will be funding it himself.

1) is not relevant in the slightest. Sir Alan Sugar has had some major failiures - strangely Alan Sugar even after his major failures is considered to be a very clever businessman and still manages to get substantial debt funding agreed. That's because the experience and the ability of the people behind a business plan is a very important element of a Business Plan.

2) He wont be funding it himself. He will be funding the initial investment. But increasing our losses as a result and all future losses are ours - well of course like ANY other business plan presented that doesn't work losses will ensue. Does your preferred investor have a magic business plan that guarantees no losses going forward? Wow, I would love to meet him!! As you have said he will be funding the initial investment and paying off the debts in exchange for shares. And your problem with that is?

You cant be very helpful when looking at these business plans? - I can see no businessman would ever visit your door as you haven't a clue what one is let alone how it is made up

So by your reckoning all business plans are viable?

There is a risk to most busineses yes. But you weigh up the realistic returns and realistic sucess of the businessplan - you seem to think buying a million lottery tickets a week will be a viable businesplan because if you win then you make a profit - regardless of the probability.

There are so many factors to this businessplan that are so wrong and so far fetched. First of all, we have to get promoted. This is from one of the most competitive leagues in Europe, with not a large budget, while losing a great deal of money while we are there. So not only do we have to get promoted, we have to do it uickly otherwise the plan fails before it even starts.

Assuming we do get there. We then have to establish ourselves there, history itelf is against that happening. Not only that but we must convince the Asian public that supporting us will be more rewarding than major clubs that play in the Champions League and have superstars thoughout the squad. We then have to implement this even better than the big clubs currently do as we will still be losing close to £20 million per year. Liverpool vurrently make £7.2 million from Asian shirt sales and they are the biggest club in Asia. We will need to treble that just to break even.

Nice business plan - absolutely! Realistic business plan - absolutely not!

Before I start, I'm opposed to the rebranding, but I'm a realist and appreciate that nothing ever stays the same, apart from Angryman and Daya who I'm guessing will always remain bellends.

Gwyn recently posted guessing that Tan maybe targetting the Great Mall of China development as a marketing opportunity to push the new Cardiff City brand. This may or may not be the case, but it does make some sense when you look at the potential numbers involved.

Cardiff City currently markets itself predominantly to South Wales, with a potential catchment population of approx 1.5 million plus. In comparison, you wills ee from the attached link article that the Great Mall of China has a catchment area of 100 million people. This is huge and pretty difficult to comprehend without experiencing the urban sprall of China first hand. The article

http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story. ... In%20China

This might well turn out to be a big commercial success when completed , but

1) the report is somewhat biased in that it is in a newspapaer owned by Vincent Tan

2) the mall will not be completed for 3 or 4 years at least

3) the last "biggest mall in the world" built in China was a total and absolute financial disaster (see my response to Gwyn`s Big Red Dragon post) ,despite being in a similar sized catchment area near China`s 3rd biggest city (Beijing is the 2nd largest , but the South China Mall also had the potential of being within easy reach of Hong Kong which Beijing doesn`t have)

If Tan has some control over advertising and marketing in the mall, shoppers will be bombarded every hour of every day with whatever images and marketing material Tan chooses, plus the design and imagery of the Mall itself could both consciously and sub consciously (subliminal design and features) influence shoppers habits.

Designing modern shopping malls and advertising within them is now a science and shopers are like sheep, easy to influence and direct.

If he has plans to market us in this manner good luck. If he hasn't, he's missing a trick.

I'd still rather he had the leisure pool slides designed in a bluebird theme, but I imagine it's easier to make a slide in the shape of a dragon and the proposed branding will be more identifiable with punters.

Perhaps there is a method to the madness after all, but he won't be changing my view of the rebrand any time soon.

we are not that big in south wales where we are based i cant see china being that arsed with us
there are far more manu and liverpool (murderers) fans in south wales than ccfc or jacks SAD BUT TRUE

But the OP is about us being marketed. You may not see us being big out there but Tan has a bit more business acumen.

he had better have a huge amount of business acumen if he can promote ccfc who are in the second div of english football out in asia when you have barca, manu, lfc ,real,inter,ac,bayan
hope your right mate but cant see it

exactly where is the English second division watched in China?

You are doing this deliberately yes. Surely or are you just being stupid for the sake of it

THE BUSINESS PLAN INVOLVES US GETTING TO THE PREMIERSHIP AND STAYING THERE. MAYBE YOU WILL GET IT ONE DAY.

How long is this plan? Is it plan B, C D. Surely if your plan is based on getting to the PL and staying there its yet another gamble for your franchise.

I am presented with Business Plans on a regular basis and they ALL involve an element of gambling as no one can guarantee what will happen in the future. VT's Business Plan has two very important elements behind it that would result in me saying yes every single time (1) it's VT, a hugely successful businessman, who would be presenting it to me and (2) even more relevant, he is not asking me to give him any money as he will be funding it himself.

1) is not relevant in the slightest. Sir Alan Sugar has had some major failiures - strangely Alan Sugar even after his major failures is considered to be a very clever businessman and still manages to get substantial debt funding agreed. That's because the experience and the ability of the people behind a business plan is a very important element of a Business Plan.

2) He wont be funding it himself. He will be funding the initial investment. But increasing our losses as a result and all future losses are ours - well of course like ANY other business plan presented that doesn't work losses will ensue. Does your preferred investor have a magic business plan that guarantees no losses going forward? Wow, I would love to meet him!! As you have said he will be funding the initial investment and paying off the debts in exchange for shares. And your problem with that is?

You cant be very helpful when looking at these business plans? - I can see no businessman would ever visit your door as you haven't a clue what one is let alone how it is made up

There is of course another fundamental flaw in your argument.

There is absolutely no evidence that such a detailed business plan exists - certainly there is no claim on the part of the UK executive directors of the club that they have ever seen and approved one.

A simple "we have seen a full and detailed marketing and business plan in support of additional additional revenue streams which will flow from the rebranding of the club and in particular its change of club colours and understand and support how that will improve the club`s year on year profitability in the future"on the club`s official site from the directors would do.

Anyone else find it strange why the directors have found it impossible to release such a statement? After all , that wouldn`t breach any commercial confidentiality would it , but would take some of the wind out of the sails of many who are against the change because no-one has explained the benefits. Yet they have chosen not to do so at any time in the month since the matter first raised its ugly head.

THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF US

THEY CANNOT WATCH US ON TV OR ON THE INTERNET

WHY WOULD THEY SUDDENLY DROP MAN UTD, LIVERPOOL, CHELSEA, ARSENAL ETC??

IF THE RED DRAGON CENTER SUDDENLY STARTED SELLING FC HARBIN GOULI SHIRTS (2nd division Chinese club) DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD START SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES AND EVERYONE IN WALES BECOMING AVID HARBIN GOULI FANS EVEN THOUGH THEY CANT WATCH ANY F THEIR GAMES, ALREADY SUPPORT SOMEONE AND HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THEM?

W
A
K
E

U
P

Jack!

THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF US

THEY CANNOT WATCH US ON TV OR ON THE INTERNET

WHY WOULD THEY SUDDENLY DROP MAN UTD, LIVERPOOL, CHELSEA, ARSENAL ETC??

IF THE RED DRAGON CENTER SUDDENLY STARTED SELLING FC HARBIN GOULI SHIRTS (2nd division Chinese club) DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD START SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES AND EVERYONE IN WALES BECOMING AVID HARBIN GOULI FANS EVEN THOUGH THEY CANT WATCH ANY F THEIR GAMES, ALREADY SUPPORT SOMEONE AND HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THEM?

W
A
K
E

U
P

Jack!

ive said it before and say it again we are not big in our own catchment area let alone asia

There is of course another fundamental flaw in your argument.

There is absolutely no evidence that such a detailed business plan exists - certainly there is no claim on the part of the UK executive directors of the club that they have ever seen and approved one.

A simple "we have seen a full and detailed marketing and business plan in support of additional additional revenue streams which will flow from the rebranding of the club and in particular its change of club colours and understand and support how that will improve the club`s year on year profitability in the future"on the club`s official site from the directors would do.

Anyone else find it strange why the directors have found it impossible to release such a statement? After all , that wouldn`t breach any commercial confidentiality would it , but would take some of the wind out of the sails of many who are against the change because no-one has explained the benefits. Yet they have chosen not to do so at any time in the month since the matter first raised its ugly head.

We both know in business that business plans don't always exist on paper except when a funding institution insists on seeing one when asked to provide some finance. I think you would probably agree however that a Businessman like VT be unlikely to invest in a loss making football club if he didn't have a plan.

I would argue with you that the statements issued so far by the Malaysians haven't tried to explain the rebranding in a 'simple' way and the issue is more to do with a football fans desire to know everything against the business acumen of not 'letting all the cats out of the bags' is where the issue lies here

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

There is of course another fundamental flaw in your argument.

There is absolutely no evidence that such a detailed business plan exists - certainly there is no claim on the part of the UK executive directors of the club that they have ever seen and approved one.

A simple "we have seen a full and detailed marketing and business plan in support of additional additional revenue streams which will flow from the rebranding of the club and in particular its change of club colours and understand and support how that will improve the club`s year on year profitability in the future"on the club`s official site from the directors would do.

Anyone else find it strange why the directors have found it impossible to release such a statement? After all , that wouldn`t breach any commercial confidentiality would it , but would take some of the wind out of the sails of many who are against the change because no-one has explained the benefits. Yet they have chosen not to do so at any time in the month since the matter first raised its ugly head.

We both know in business that business plans don't always exist on paper except when a funding institution insists on seeing one when asked to provide some finance. I think you would probably agree however that a Businessman like VT be unlikely to invest in a loss making football club if he didn't have a plan.

I would argue with you that the statements issued so far by the Malaysians haven't tried to explain the rebranding in a 'simple' way and the issue is more to do with a football fans desire to know everything against the business acumen of not 'letting all the cats out of the bags' is where the issue lies here

So if we go along with your theory that there doesn`t necessarily have to be a written business plan in this case , then can you explain how the hell the executive directors of the club can have considered such a plan and given their support to it?
Would that not be a fundamental breach of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company?

I agree that VT is unlikely to invest in a scheme if he can`t see a profit in it . But a profit for whom , the club or himself/his businesses?

In the ongoing absence of confirmation from the directors that they have seen, understood and approved a business plan of financial benefit to the club for which they are responsible , then I can only assume that they have been shown no such plan and that they are only "obeying orders".

There is of course another fundamental flaw in your argument.



A simple "we have seen a full and detailed marketing and business plan in support of additional additional revenue streams which will flow from the rebranding of the club and in particular its change of club colours and understand and support how that will improve the club`s year on year profitability in the future"on the club`s official site from the directors would do.

Anyone else find it strange why the directors have found it impossible to release such a statement? After all , that wouldn`t breach any commercial confidentiality would it , but would take some of the wind out of the sails of many who are against the change because no-one has explained the benefits. Yet they have chosen not to do so at any time in the month since the matter first raised its ugly head.

We both know in business that business plans don't always exist on paper except when a funding institution insists on seeing one when asked to provide some finance. I think you would probably agree however that a Businessman like VT be unlikely to invest in a loss making football club if he didn't have a plan.

I would argue with you that the statements issued so far by the Malaysians haven't tried to explain the rebranding in a 'simple' way and the issue is more to do with a football fans desire to know everything against the business acumen of not 'letting all the cats out of the bags' is where the issue lies here

So if we go along with your theory that there doesn`t necessarily have to be a written business plan in this case , then can you explain how the hell the executive directors of the club can have considered such a plan and given their support to it?
Would that not be a fundamental breach of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company?

I agree that VT is unlikely to invest in a scheme if he can`t see a profit in it . But a profit for whom , the club or himself/his businesses?

In the ongoing absence of confirmation from the directors that they have seen, understood and approved a business plan of financial benefit to the club for which they are responsible , then I can only assume that they have been shown no such plan and that they are only "obeying orders".

I think if you re-read me posting you will see I have simply stated that not all business plans have to be produced purely to counter your argument and that I have stated that I did not believe that VT would not have produced one. Its seems you want to argue for the sake of it for some reason?

What I struggle with is your suggestion that purely as a result of not issuing a statement that they have seen a business plan that you deem this to be very strange and therefore assume that they haven't seen one. Are you suggestion its part of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company to issue a simple statement confirming an actual business plan does exist or simply because they haven't it automatically means they are obeying orders when it could simply be the fundamental business acumen of keeping marketing strategy internal and away from the competition?

As for profit and who is it for then that's fundamentally an issue for the shareholders which ultimately will be VT once the restructure goes ahead. Yes it could well be for the benefit of him and his other businesses rather than the club itself but there are no guarantees in business. You do seem to feel however the need to raise a suggestion that VT may have some ulterior motive. You base this on what exactly?

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

One could quite easily counter that by saying you equally have no idea of what they are doing so why do you feel the need to worry

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

One could quite easily counter that by saying you equally have no idea of what they are doing so why do you feel the need to worry

Well no I dont, but that doesnt help us as fans or your viewpoint. If they are doing it for the good of CCFC then we know exactly what their plan is, and its unrealistic in the extreme - make us massive in Asia.

But who knows what their real plan is to the detriment of the club and gain for them.

Either way its not looking good is it. They are either adopting a terrible unrealistic business model to the potential cost of £100 million + to the club or they are hiding their true motives which in itself suggests the outcome is not a good one for us fans.

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

One could quite easily counter that by saying you equally have no idea of what they are doing so why do you feel the need to worry

Well no I dont, but that doesnt help us as fans or your viewpoint. If they are doing it for the good of CCFC then we know exactly what their plan is, and its unrealistic in the extreme - make us massive in Asia.

But who knows what their real plan is to the detriment of the club and gain for them.

Either way its not looking good is it. They are either adopting a terrible unrealistic business model to the potential cost of £100 million + to the club or they are hiding their true motives which in itself suggests the outcome is not a good one for us fans.

I don't think you will find one fan who doesn't believe that they are in it for them but why does that automatically in your view mean is has to be to the detriment of the club. Can't a successful club result in a gain for the shareholders or are you saying that they can only make a gain by asset stripping the club?

You also have to understand that what has been proposed is not that the club will incur costs of £100 million + but that the debts of the club are to be replaced by shares in the club. This is the major element of the investment and i am surprised you continue to suggest that debts will be increasing

As for the 'terrible unrealistic business model' is concerned I take it you are referring to the red branding for which full details have not been released so I would love how you know how you have managed to obtain all of the facts to label it terrible and unrealistic

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

One could quite easily counter that by saying you equally have no idea of what they are doing so why do you feel the need to worry

Well no I dont, but that doesnt help us as fans or your viewpoint. If they are doing it for the good of CCFC then we know exactly what their plan is, and its unrealistic in the extreme - make us massive in Asia.

But who knows what their real plan is to the detriment of the club and gain for them.

Either way its not looking good is it. They are either adopting a terrible unrealistic business model to the potential cost of £100 million + to the club or they are hiding their true motives which in itself suggests the outcome is not a good one for us fans.

I don't think you will find one fan who doesn't believe that they are in it for them but why does that automatically in your view mean is has to be to the detriment of the club. Can't a successful club result in a gain for the shareholders or are you saying that they can only make a gain by asset stripping the club?

So how else can they get their money back and more? their only way to get that kind of money back and go hand in hand with success is to get the revenue of a Champions League club. Do ou think we are going to be a top 4 club any time in the next decade or even century? No.

You also have to understand that what has been proposed is not that the club will incur costs of £100 million + but that the debts of the club are to be replaced by shares in the club. This is the major element of the investment and i am surprised you continue to suggest that debts will be increasing

The Malaysians will incur the investment, but the club will bare the losses n the back on that investment. The £18 million a year shortfall will be our losses and not conveted into shares. This is the main concern here and the fundamental thing that is being ignored by the pro reds.

As for the 'terrible unrealistic business model' is concerned I take it you are referring to the red branding for which full details have not been released so I would love how you know how you have managed to obtain all of the facts to label it terrible and unrealistic

Im referring to the whole thing. We are a club that loses close to £20 million a year. The business plan must include stopping these losses. The only way to do that is become a top 4 club - do I think thats wildly unrealistic? yes. Do I tink that is their real plan? no. And that is why im concerned.

That screams ''they are rich - they know what they are doing'' - which is a terrifying notion if your claims that you know business are true. You have no idea what they are planning, ignoring all the historical and current evidence that we know about trends, football business and attitudes towards smaller clubs and saying ''meh... they must know what they are doing''.

Which is what most are doing I think.

One could quite easily counter that by saying you equally have no idea of what they are doing so why do you feel the need to worry

Well no I dont, but that doesnt help us as fans or your viewpoint. If they are doing it for the good of CCFC then we know exactly what their plan is, and its unrealistic in the extreme - make us massive in Asia.

But who knows what their real plan is to the detriment of the club and gain for them.

Either way its not looking good is it. They are either adopting a terrible unrealistic business model to the potential cost of £100 million + to the club or they are hiding their true motives which in itself suggests the outcome is not a good one for us fans.

I don't think you will find one fan who doesn't believe that they are in it for them but why does that automatically in your view mean is has to be to the detriment of the club. Can't a successful club result in a gain for the shareholders or are you saying that they can only make a gain by asset stripping the club?

So how else can they get their money back and more? their only way to get that kind of money back and go hand in hand with success is to get the revenue of a Champions League club. Do ou think we are going to be a top 4 club any time in the next decade or even century? No.

You also have to understand that what has been proposed is not that the club will incur costs of £100 million + but that the debts of the club are to be replaced by shares in the club. This is the major element of the investment and i am surprised you continue to suggest that debts will be increasing

The Malaysians will incur the investment, but the club will bare the losses n the back on that investment. The £18 million a year shortfall will be our losses and not conveted into shares. This is the main concern here and the fundamental thing that is being ignored by the pro reds.

As for the 'terrible unrealistic business model' is concerned I take it you are referring to the red branding for which full details have not been released so I would love how you know how you have managed to obtain all of the facts to label it terrible and unrealistic

Im referring to the whole thing. You are a club that loses close to £20 million a year. The business plan must include stopping these losses. The only way to do that is become a top 4 club - do I think thats wildly unrealistic? Ha ha yes. Do I think that is their real plan? No. And that is why I'm not concerned.

My posts worry you tht much you have to mimmick an account in order to try and discredit what I say?

You really didnt think about the post count issue, your only on 14

This is nothing compared to the great wall of China he has managed to build in Cardiff which separate the red and blue sides of our suport.

There is of course another fundamental flaw in your argument.



A simple "we have seen a full and detailed marketing and business plan in support of additional additional revenue streams which will flow from the rebranding of the club and in particular its change of club colours and understand and support how that will improve the club`s year on year profitability in the future"on the club`s official site from the directors would do.

Anyone else find it strange why the directors have found it impossible to release such a statement? After all , that wouldn`t breach any commercial confidentiality would it , but would take some of the wind out of the sails of many who are against the change because no-one has explained the benefits. Yet they have chosen not to do so at any time in the month since the matter first raised its ugly head.

We both know in business that business plans don't always exist on paper except when a funding institution insists on seeing one when asked to provide some finance. I think you would probably agree however that a Businessman like VT be unlikely to invest in a loss making football club if he didn't have a plan.

I would argue with you that the statements issued so far by the Malaysians haven't tried to explain the rebranding in a 'simple' way and the issue is more to do with a football fans desire to know everything against the business acumen of not 'letting all the cats out of the bags' is where the issue lies here

So if we go along with your theory that there doesn`t necessarily have to be a written business plan in this case , then can you explain how the hell the executive directors of the club can have considered such a plan and given their support to it?
Would that not be a fundamental breach of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company?

I agree that VT is unlikely to invest in a scheme if he can`t see a profit in it . But a profit for whom , the club or himself/his businesses?

In the ongoing absence of confirmation from the directors that they have seen, understood and approved a business plan of financial benefit to the club for which they are responsible , then I can only assume that they have been shown no such plan and that they are only "obeying orders".

I think if you re-read me posting you will see I have simply stated that not all business plans have to be produced purely to counter your argument and that I have stated that I did not believe that VT would not have produced one. Its seems you want to argue for the sake of it for some reason?

What I struggle with is your suggestion that purely as a result of not issuing a statement that they have seen a business plan that you deem this to be very strange and therefore assume that they haven't seen one. Are you suggestion its part of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company to issue a simple statement confirming an actual business plan does exist or simply because they haven't it automatically means they are obeying orders when it could simply be the fundamental business acumen of keeping marketing strategy internal and away from the competition?

As for profit and who is it for then that's fundamentally an issue for the shareholders which ultimately will be VT once the restructure goes ahead. Yes it could well be for the benefit of him and his other businesses rather than the club itself but there are no guarantees in business. You do seem to feel however the need to raise a suggestion that VT may have some ulterior motive. You base this on what exactly?

I am not in any way suggesting the club`s directors should disclose what the strategy and business plan is , just that they have seen one and are happy with it. Reviewing such plans IS part of their fiduciary duties as officers of the company.

As of 8 May 2012 , the Chief Executive of the club had certainly not seen a business plan in support of the rebranding - he said so at a meeting with a group of fans held that evening - and had no idea why the need for a change of colours from blue to red as a business case.He was merely being used a messenger that the change WAS going to happen no matter what.

Even now , more than a month later , there is still nothing to suggest that the directors have been shown or discussed such a business plan .As I said before , if they had they could have quite easily come up with a statement saying so.