Just like Mike's board

Might have been a massive initial reaction to the news of the re-branding, but as soon as the dust settled and the majority of fans realised what the full outcome of not accepting the proposals meant, there was a massive U-Turn!

I suppose this initial massive reaction, was also amplified by the disgusting behaviour of some people (Cardiff supporters or not), who then choose to send threatening and insulting e-mails to the Malaysians![/quote]

If (as you claim) it was only an initial reaction then why would the Malaysians not realise this and restart negotiations.[/quote]

I can't remember there being any initial negotiations, as all the leaks from a couple of "Fan's Leaders" meetings with the club, have mentioned that the proposals were going to be implemented, with or without any support!

It seems that things were only changed, when there was a big initial opposition to the proposals and the vile e-mails to VT!

Might have been a massive initial reaction to the news of the re-branding, but as soon as the dust settled and the majority of fans realised what the full outcome of not accepting the proposals meant, there was a massive U-Turn!

I suppose this initial massive reaction, was also amplified by the disgusting behaviour of some people (Cardiff supporters or not), who then choose to send threatening and insulting e-mails to the Malaysians!

Again you state that the majority of fans have done a massive u turn yet all the fans I speak to have not rolled over despite a concerted effort by some to put out propaganda aimed to frighten fans into changing their minds. I will agree about the disgusting e mails aimed at the Malaysians and there is no place for that type of behavior but the actions of these idiots should not be used to taint the genuine beliefs of the pro blue movement.[/color] [/quote]

Perhaps we are speaking to the wrong fans then, as the majority I've spoken to, would prefer to stay blue, but want the investment and are prepared to change the colour, in order to try and protect our financial future!

As the Supporter's club ballot showed though, there was only 7% in support of fully not backing the re-branding, with the biggest percentage fully in favour of the full re-branding!

I agree that people shouldn't be trying to frighten fans into changing their minds, but this propoganda has been prevalent from both sides of the Blue/Red argument!

quote]

I have been reading your many posts over the past few days in particular and in the main, they are well worded and well thought out, although I fail to see why you've been so forceful in your pursuit of Gwyn, who I don't even know btw!

I didn't say that you were the only one who came out in opposition to the rebranding, as it was clear when the leak was first made on the message boards, that there was a lot of fans (not necessarily the majority of fans though), who were against the colour and badge change!

However, whilst the fans against the re-branding came out in force initially, there was a bloody big U Turn, when the full proposal was made public (ie., the £100 million investment) and the possible doomsday scenario, of not accepting the proposals hit home!

As you've decided to try and second guess my stance, I'll make it clear, as long as we stay as Cardiff City, I couldn't care less what colour we play in, as long it's not all white for obvious reasons, or pink like Stade Francais!

I also agree that the damage may already have been done, although I personally don't believe that it has been damaged beyond repair and that there is also no point in speculating at present! [/quote]

Thanks for the reply and I fully appreciate your position. As you have asked me some questions, I will try and clarify my position further.You asked why I had been forcefull in my pursuit of Gwyn. If it appears this way then I can only say that it is due to proportionally reacting to the massive amounts of propaganda which he is putting out at present trying to frighten us with his doomsday scenarios.
In all fairness I know that he has done a lot of good work on behalf of the fans and continues to do so but on the rebranding issue I would not trust him to represent fans views. My fundamental problem with his views is that he does not think that we are entitled to consultation with the Malaysians on rebranding and took a swipe at fans in his BBC interview for having the cheek to ask for such consulation, I think the term "who do they think they are these fans asking for consultation" came to light.
I personally do not think that anyone (not just Gwyn) is deserving to be a leader of fans if they think that the we should not be consulted on such a massive change which included dropping the bluebird and replacing it with a dragon as well as a colour change.
I think we can both agree that further speculation or harping on about the possible consequences is futile at present and we should all perhaps save our energy for what may lie ahead of us.

quote]

I have been reading your many posts over the past few days in particular and in the main, they are well worded and well thought out, although I fail to see why you've been so forceful in your pursuit of Gwyn, who I don't even know btw!

I didn't say that you were the only one who came out in opposition to the rebranding, as it was clear when the leak was first made on the message boards, that there was a lot of fans (not necessarily the majority of fans though), who were against the colour and badge change!

However, whilst the fans against the re-branding came out in force initially, there was a bloody big U Turn, when the full proposal was made public (ie., the £100 million investment) and the possible doomsday scenario, of not accepting the proposals hit home!

As you've decided to try and second guess my stance, I'll make it clear, as long as we stay as Cardiff City, I couldn't care less what colour we play in, as long it's not all white for obvious reasons, or pink like Stade Francais!

I also agree that the damage may already have been done, although I personally don't believe that it has been damaged beyond repair and that there is also no point in speculating at present!

Thanks for the reply and I fully appreciate your position. As you have asked me some questions, I will try and clarify my position further.You asked why I had been forcefull in my pursuit of Gwyn. If it appears this way then I can only say that it is due to proportionally reacting to the massive amounts of propaganda which he is putting out at present trying to frighten us with his doomsday scenarios.
In all fairness I know that he has done a lot of good work on behalf of the fans and continues to do so but on the rebranding issue I would not trust him to represent fans views. My fundamental problem with his views is that he does not think that we are entitled to consultation with the Malaysians on rebranding and took a swipe at fans in his BBC interview for having the cheek to ask for such consulation, I think the term "who do they think they are these fans asking for consultation" came to light.
I personally do not think that anyone (not just Gwyn) is deserving to be a leader of fans if they think that the we should not be consulted on such a massive change which included dropping the bluebird and replacing it with a dragon as well as a colour change.
I think we can both agree that further speculation or harping on about the possible consequences is futile at present and we should all perhaps save our energy for what may lie ahead of us. [/quote]

In fainess to Gwyn, the Doomsday Scenario was clear to the dullest of fans that things could possibly go that way and so I can't see why people should get so worked up over Gwyn painting an already clear picture of the possible outcome, should VT decide to pull out of Cardiff City, or up sticks to the likes of Leeds etc, who may well be a better financial proposition than ourselves!

There have been a lot of other posters who have also jumped on Gwyn's back over the last week or so and slated him for stating the obvious, which again, I can't see why they should get so upset!

I suppose it's open to debate as to whether the fans should be consulted on the re-branding issue, as we don't own the club!

If everybody had been ballotted, I suppose the vast majority would have voted to stay blue, but if it meant that the upshot of the lack of support for the re-brand was that the funding was then going to be pulled, then I expect that the vast majority would accept the re-branding!

In essence, I suspect that the reason you wouldn't want Gwyn to represent you, is that his view is different to your own, which is perhaps why it would possibly be in the interest of the supporters and the club, if everybody became a member of the trust, which I'm not btw, so that everybody could be ballotted, even though it may well have no effect on the proposed Re-branding!

Me, I'm just grateful that the Malaysians came in when they did and saved us from obvious oblivion, as I've had a couple of great seasons following the City under their stewardship, home and away and I hope that they continue to support us financially, as I want to be able to continue to watch the City challenging at least at Championship level, with my son for the foreseeable future!

The answer is then SET UP YOUR OWN MESSAGE BOARD, loads have tried and most have failed, perhaps this is so successful because it is run as it is, have you ever thought the minority of disgruntled moan at everything type fans are exactly that, the MINORITY, so just set up a board where you can all do what you want to with total freedom until the police jail the site owner for the cations of some irresponsible posters.

A typical Gwyn answer. You have done a fair bit of moaning yourself recently. The pro red brigade have not convinced the rest of us over the rebranding and the fans have spoken out against it in sufficient numbers to put it on hold. You can hardly call this opposition a minority reaction otherwise the rebranding would have gone ahead regardless.Since then you have gone on national tv and taken every opportunity to tell us that we will be playing non league football, go bust or spend an eternity in hell.The fans have spoken out against the rebranding so you must now accept it and await our fate like everyone else.
Some of the posters on here do not have the exposure that you have, nor do they have the opportunity to manipulate the media so this is their only outlet and surely not even you would deny them this.

I have to disagree I don't think the fans reaction is responsible for putting the rebranding on hold. I don't for one minute believe that there was ever any plan to have us playing in red next season.

If the rebranding is eventually introduced it will be when Langston is resolved and VT has full control of the club.

Believe me if VT then wants to rebrand he will and quite frankly your view won't stop anything.

very true and no matter how much opposition there is it will go through

right ,i,m one who thinks this board has gone to the dogs since the re-branding issues.feel free to tell me to do one and go on a birmingham site if you want but hear me out first.my first point is not all the jacks and certainly not myself are taking the urine.i actually feel the price to pay for MAYBE some investment is far far too high to pay.i believe ,as a football fan that you should not sell your souls .some of the reaction to the promise? of 100m has been mental.all the lads i know would rather drag their nuts across broken glass than change birminghams colour from blue.some of the posts on here regarding the malayisians are crazy.they remind me of young girls screaming their love for boyzone.secondly ,when insults are dished out willy nilly because people don,t agree with each other then it,s pretty pathetic.subtle intimidation -bang out of order.thirdly ,i don,t agree with the banning of the jacks.yes some of the posts are drivel but then again half of the drivel threads about the jacks are started by cardiff fans.go back to the main page and you,ll see a massive one.finally to say go and start your own board if you don,t like this now,well what type of comment is that?yeah we,re all full of money ain,t we?to the person who posted that statement what would you do if all this m/b turned it,s back on the supposed cash injection and went blue so to speak?.would you start your own m/b because you had no support?i doubt it and you shouldn,t have to.we,re grown men ,diff opinions should be welcomed and we should be trusted to decide ourselves what,s crap and whats not without mods doing our thinking for us.cardiff city will be around one way or another for years to come.if you want to watch europeon football that bad and want to play in red you can always go and watch man utd.we,ve had hissy fitting owners at blues for years.we,re in a mess and still here and i,ll be renewing my s/t tonight hopefully..this will end in tears and the lads who predicted it will be long gone off here.with the tax laws i doubt if the owners have lost any money and lads are getting grief because they don,t fall for the scaremongering??that,s me done.no swearing,no threats and no insults.k.r.o

Marc i have to disagree with you as well you have all but stopped posting and the same could be said of Saddam and Sam ETC.
And Gwyn since this re branding came about you have changed, no jokes no humour, and to be honest your replies to my posts, i cant come back with an answer as they don't make sense to me. Your reply to the opening post about "why don't i try starting up my own board and the owner getting thrown in jail" is baffling to say the least.
I need a lie down