Do you agree with the concept of "fans leaders"?

Do we need them?

70% well well

I am ashamed to be a bluebird at the minute. The work that Annis and Carl amongst others do for this club is paramount to our success and to see the general anger towards them on here is sickening.

You may say you represent your own views but Annis and Carl give you that platform for them to be aired.

It is strange isn't it, you have a lot of fans saying there should be more consultation with fans and then loads saying there should be no fans leaders.

Now in the recent meetings the only people who could be referred to as fans leaders were the Trust and Supporters clubs representatives, these people have been voted in democratically and can just as easily be voted out, so if you don't want them then simply vote them out.

Other fans present simply came as a broad section of fans, some from the travel club, some from the two main message boards and me as myself, but none of the latter group would call themselves leaders.

So is it a case of wanting different ones or none at all, either way there are solutions, vote them out and put yourself forward , and as for the others such as message boards and travel club, then get off your arses and keyboards and do something constructive and get involved. EASY.

I will ways contribute If I feel it can be constructive, I consider myself as someone who can't just moan from behind a key board, I try and do something about it, this has led to me travelling all over the country (mind you only a fraction of the miles that Vince does for fans rights) I have been active with the Football Supporters Federation, I have attended conferences all around the country on issues such as fans rights, police powers, changes to football stewarding etc.

I have been to court dozens of times supporting or even acting as a witness for our fans who i feel have been treated unfairly, I more or less put my life on hold for eight years after I set the Valley rams up.

A lot of people that moan or snipe or criticise, do nothing positive to help or try and change things, if something is going on that I'm not happy about, I will try and get involved and change things from within.

There is a need for fans involvement and discussion over many matters at the club, but as far as I'm concerned, some among us feel they should be involved in decisions that at the end of the day should be left to those that run and own our club. At the end of the day the club is a business and we are customers, I would like to think that the people employed to carry out such tasks are experts in their field, otherwise why are they involved.

In the last meeting at the club, people were saying they should have been involved in the business plan, they wanted to know where the investment was coming from, how much exactly, in what form was it being paid, where exactly was it being allocated blah blah blah.

Now to me as a fan and a customer, I don't see how that is any business of mine other than to leave it to the experts, things such as policing us stewarding us, making us sit stand etc, kick off times bubble matches etc, now these are the areas we need a voice at.

It's really easy to get involved if you want to, just come forward step up to the mark, join the Trust, join the Supporters club, run a web site, run a bus, set up a help fans group, do whatever to help your fellow fans, but it involves a lot of work, a lot of time and some time a lot of flak, and suprisingly no pay or expenses.

Some of these meeting are mind zappingly tedious, but every now and then you can make a small difference nd possibly that's why some of us do these things.

Some of the things you've listed are why I respected you before the whole Blue/Red thing.

I'm not against the concept of fans leaders as such, although I'm against them pushing theirs views on others.

The problem with your point of view of letting owners do what they want, is that's basically why we're in the shit.
Too many fans see every owner as some kind of saviour, instead of holding them to account.
It's the owners who've accrued all this debt, it's the owners that always spout empty promises before leaving us in a world of shite.

I will ways contribute If I feel it can be constructive, I consider myself as someone who can't just moan from behind a key board, I try and do something about it, this has led to me travelling all over the country (mind you only a fraction of the miles that Vince does for fans rights) I have been active with the Football Supporters Federation, I have attended conferences all around the country on issues such as fans rights, police powers, changes to football stewarding etc.

I have been to court dozens of times supporting or even acting as a witness for our fans who i feel have been treated unfairly, I more or less put my life on hold for eight years after I set the Valley rams up.

A lot of people that moan or snipe or criticise, do nothing positive to help or try and change things, if something is going on that I'm not happy about, I will try and get involved and change things from within.

There is a need for fans involvement and discussion over many matters at the club, but as far as I'm concerned, some among us feel they should be involved in decisions that at the end of the day should be left to those that run and own our club. At the end of the day the club is a business and we are customers, I would like to think that the people employed to carry out such tasks are experts in their field, otherwise why are they involved.

In the last meeting at the club, people were saying they should have been involved in the business plan, they wanted to know where the investment was coming from, how much exactly, in what form was it being paid, where exactly was it being allocated blah blah blah.

Now to me as a fan and a customer, I don't see how that is any business of mine other than to leave it to the experts, things such as policing us stewarding us, making us sit stand etc, kick off times bubble matches etc, now these are the areas we need a voice at.

It's really easy to get involved if you want to, just come forward step up to the mark, join the Trust, join the Supporters club, run a web site, run a bus, set up a help fans group, do whatever to help your fellow fans, but it involves a lot of work, a lot of time and some time a lot of flak, and suprisingly no pay or expenses.

Some of these meeting are mind zappingly tedious, but every now and then you can make a small difference nd possibly that's why some of us do these things.

Some of the things you've listed are why I respected you before the whole Blue/Red thing.

I'm not against the concept of fans leaders as such, although I'm against them pushing theirs views on others.

The problem with your point of view of letting owners do what they want, is that's basically why we're in the shit.
Too many fans see every owner as some kind of saviour, instead of holding them to account.
It's the owners who've accrued all this debt, it's the owners that always spout empty promises before leaving us in a world of shite.

Never a truer words spoken Chief

I will ways contribute If I feel it can be constructive, I consider myself as someone who can't just moan from behind a key board, I try and do something about it, this has led to me travelling all over the country (mind you only a fraction of the miles that Vince does for fans rights) I have been active with the Football Supporters Federation, I have attended conferences all around the country on issues such as fans rights, police powers, changes to football stewarding etc.

I have been to court dozens of times supporting or even acting as a witness for our fans who i feel have been treated unfairly, I more or less put my life on hold for eight years after I set the Valley rams up.

A lot of people that moan or snipe or criticise, do nothing positive to help or try and change things, if something is going on that I'm not happy about, I will try and get involved and change things from within.

There is a need for fans involvement and discussion over many matters at the club, but as far as I'm concerned, some among us feel they should be involved in decisions that at the end of the day should be left to those that run and own our club. At the end of the day the club is a business and we are customers, I would like to think that the people employed to carry out such tasks are experts in their field, otherwise why are they involved.

In the last meeting at the club, people were saying they should have been involved in the business plan, they wanted to know where the investment was coming from, how much exactly, in what form was it being paid, where exactly was it being allocated blah blah blah.

Now to me as a fan and a customer, I don't see how that is any business of mine other than to leave it to the experts, things such as policing us stewarding us, making us sit stand etc, kick off times bubble matches etc, now these are the areas we need a voice at.

It's really easy to get involved if you want to, just come forward step up to the mark, join the Trust, join the Supporters club, run a web site, run a bus, set up a help fans group, do whatever to help your fellow fans, but it involves a lot of work, a lot of time and some time a lot of flak, and suprisingly no pay or expenses.

Some of these meeting are mind zappingly tedious, but every now and then you can make a small difference nd possibly that's why some of us do these things.

Some of the things you've listed are why I respected you before the whole Blue/Red thing.

I'm not against the concept of fans leaders as such, although I'm against them pushing theirs views on others.

The problem with your point of view of letting owners do what they want, is that's basically why we're in the shit.
Too many fans see every owner as some kind of saviour, instead of holding them to account.
It's the owners who've accrued all this debt, it's the owners that always spout empty promises before leaving us in a world of shite.

Surely fans on both sides of the divide had chance to air their views, i was one of the minority in those meetings, and those against change had their own platform to air their views, isn't that how things work, people listen to both sides of an argument/discussion and then make their own minds up.

Yes I hoped then and I hope now, that the Malaysians are our saviors, can you see an alternative if they decide to walk away, we have come to near the edge too many times not to fall over it unless at least once.

Like it or not, unless we as fans own our own club, (and I personally think that would be as disastrous in some ways) we will always be at the mercy of our owners, it's a case of who ever pays the Piper, calls the tune, we may have romantic notions of how football should be run as an institution, but the facts are it is run as a business, and in most cases, not a very good business.

I will ways contribute If I feel it can be constructive, I consider myself as someone who can't just moan from behind a key board, I try and do something about it, this has led to me travelling all over the country (mind you only a fraction of the miles that Vince does for fans rights) I have been active with the Football Supporters Federation, I have attended conferences all around the country on issues such as fans rights, police powers, changes to football stewarding etc.

I have been to court dozens of times supporting or even acting as a witness for our fans who i feel have been treated unfairly, I more or less put my life on hold for eight years after I set the Valley rams up.

A lot of people that moan or snipe or criticise, do nothing positive to help or try and change things, if something is going on that I'm not happy about, I will try and get involved and change things from within.

There is a need for fans involvement and discussion over many matters at the club, but as far as I'm concerned, some among us feel they should be involved in decisions that at the end of the day should be left to those that run and own our club. At the end of the day the club is a business and we are customers, I would like to think that the people employed to carry out such tasks are experts in their field, otherwise why are they involved.

In the last meeting at the club, people were saying they should have been involved in the business plan, they wanted to know where the investment was coming from, how much exactly, in what form was it being paid, where exactly was it being allocated blah blah blah.

Now to me as a fan and a customer, I don't see how that is any business of mine other than to leave it to the experts, things such as policing us stewarding us, making us sit stand etc, kick off times bubble matches etc, now these are the areas we need a voice at.

It's really easy to get involved if you want to, just come forward step up to the mark, join the Trust, join the Supporters club, run a web site, run a bus, set up a help fans group, do whatever to help your fellow fans, but it involves a lot of work, a lot of time and some time a lot of flak, and suprisingly no pay or expenses.

Some of these meeting are mind zappingly tedious, but every now and then you can make a small difference nd possibly that's why some of us do these things.

Some of the things you've listed are why I respected you before the whole Blue/Red thing.

I'm not against the concept of fans leaders as such, although I'm against them pushing theirs views on others.

The problem with your point of view of letting owners do what they want, is that's basically why we're in the shit.
Too many fans see every owner as some kind of saviour, instead of holding them to account.
It's the owners who've accrued all this debt, it's the owners that always spout empty promises before leaving us in a world of shite.

Surely fans on both sides of the divide had chance to air their views, i was one of the minority in those meetings, and those against change had their own platform to air their views, isn't that how things work, people listen to both sides of an argument/discussion and then make their own minds up.

Yes I hoped then and I hope now, that the Malaysians are our saviors, can you see an alternative if they decide to walk away, we have come to near the edge too many times not to fall over it unless at least once.

Like it or not, unless we as fans own our own club, (and I personally think that would be as disastrous in some ways) we will always be at the mercy of our owners, it's a case of who ever pays the Piper, calls the tune, we may have romantic notions of how football should be run as an institution, but the facts are it is run as a business, and in most cases, not a very good business.

But you came out of that meeting and on TV you was blaming fans on the message boards for scuppering the deal basically. You never said there was fans in there who disagreed with what the Malaysians were doing.

I will ways contribute If I feel it can be constructive, I consider myself as someone who can't just moan from behind a key board, I try and do something about it, this has led to me travelling all over the country (mind you only a fraction of the miles that Vince does for fans rights) I have been active with the Football Supporters Federation, I have attended conferences all around the country on issues such as fans rights, police powers, changes to football stewarding etc.

I have been to court dozens of times supporting or even acting as a witness for our fans who i feel have been treated unfairly, I more or less put my life on hold for eight years after I set the Valley rams up.

A lot of people that moan or snipe or criticise, do nothing positive to help or try and change things, if something is going on that I'm not happy about, I will try and get involved and change things from within.

There is a need for fans involvement and discussion over many matters at the club, but as far as I'm concerned, some among us feel they should be involved in decisions that at the end of the day should be left to those that run and own our club. At the end of the day the club is a business and we are customers, I would like to think that the people employed to carry out such tasks are experts in their field, otherwise why are they involved.

In the last meeting at the club, people were saying they should have been involved in the business plan, they wanted to know where the investment was coming from, how much exactly, in what form was it being paid, where exactly was it being allocated blah blah blah.

Now to me as a fan and a customer, I don't see how that is any business of mine other than to leave it to the experts, things such as policing us stewarding us, making us sit stand etc, kick off times bubble matches etc, now these are the areas we need a voice at.

It's really easy to get involved if you want to, just come forward step up to the mark, join the Trust, join the Supporters club, run a web site, run a bus, set up a help fans group, do whatever to help your fellow fans, but it involves a lot of work, a lot of time and some time a lot of flak, and suprisingly no pay or expenses.

Some of these meeting are mind zappingly tedious, but every now and then you can make a small difference nd possibly that's why some of us do these things.

Some of the things you've listed are why I respected you before the whole Blue/Red thing.

I'm not against the concept of fans leaders as such, although I'm against them pushing theirs views on others.

The problem with your point of view of letting owners do what they want, is that's basically why we're in the shit.
Too many fans see every owner as some kind of saviour, instead of holding them to account.
It's the owners who've accrued all this debt, it's the owners that always spout empty promises before leaving us in a world of shite.

Surely fans on both sides of the divide had chance to air their views, i was one of the minority in those meetings, and those against change had their own platform to air their views, isn't that how things work, people listen to both sides of an argument/discussion and then make their own minds up.

Yes I hoped then and I hope now, that the Malaysians are our saviors, can you see an alternative if they decide to walk away, we have come to near the edge too many times not to fall over it unless at least once.

Like it or not, unless we as fans own our own club, (and I personally think that would be as disastrous in some ways) we will always be at the mercy of our owners, it's a case of who ever pays the Piper, calls the tune, we may have romantic notions of how football should be run as an institution, but the facts are it is run as a business, and in most cases, not a very good business.

But you came out of that meeting and on TV you was blaming fans on the message boards for scuppering the deal basically. You never said there was fans in there who disagreed with what the Malaysians were doing.

Lost me now? yes it was public knowledge that posts from message boards, facebook and twitter had been picked up on and used in the Malaysian press etc and surely if you seen the interviews you noticed the bit where i pointed the finger at certain fans but without naming them for demanding they should have been consulted and negotiated with etc and that some of them were arranging protest marches and petitions?

So did you think that all of us in the meeting were for accepting red under the terms offered? what peed me off was some of those making the most noise against it in the first meeting, were back tracking as soon as the statement was read out saying the deal was off because of the fuss, and the enormity of the situation as it was, I'm sure none of them wanted to feel or accept responsibility for such an event and looking back now it was such a passionate time I would think most people wish they had spent a bit of time thinking about things before digging their heels in so to speak.

I'm glad people stood their ground over this red business. It shows that 'some' still have principles yet others wouldn't know what principles were it bit them on the arse!!!!

I'm glad people stood their ground over this red business. It shows that 'some' still have principles yet others wouldn't know what principles were it bit them on the arse!!!!

And where were your principles when you changed clubs, tell us again, how long you been a Cardiff supporter, you may be happy to risk losing a club you have seen occasionally in the past 4 years, but other genuine long term loyal fans aren't prepared to take that risk.

so you are only a genuine cardiff city fan if you are prepared to throw away the clubs identity

so you are only a genuine cardiff city fan if you are prepared to throw away the clubs identity

so you are only a genuine cardiff city fan if you are prepared to throw away the clubs identity

So it seems

so you are only a genuine cardiff city fan if you are prepared to throw away the clubs identity

Willinlgly if the other alternative is to go out of business, which one would you choose if push came to shove. because either way we wont have an identity, especially if we didn't have a club.

I'm glad people stood their ground over this red business. It shows that 'some' still have principles yet others wouldn't know what principles were it bit them on the arse!!!!

And where were your principles when you changed clubs, tell us again, how long you been a Cardiff supporter, you may be happy to risk losing a club you have seen occasionally in the past 4 years, but other genuine long term loyal fans aren't prepared to take that risk.

It's answers like that which turn people against you as many people on this board know the truth. However you carry on taking that view point because it clearly shows that you don't have a proper answer to my points.

Gwyns Spin is full of Sin!!!

Wether we like the individuals or not they put a lot of time and effort in on behalf of other people.

They are damned if they do, damned if they dont imo.

I'm glad people stood their ground over this red business. It shows that 'some' still have principles yet others wouldn't know what principles were it bit them on the arse!!!!

And where were your principles when you changed clubs, tell us again, how long you been a Cardiff supporter, you may be happy to risk losing a club you have seen occasionally in the past 4 years, but other genuine long term loyal fans aren't prepared to take that risk.

It's answers like that which turn people against you as many people on this board know the truth. However you carry on taking that view point because it clearly shows that you don't have a proper answer to my points.

Gwyns Spin is full of Sin!!!

Adam ive known you longer than anyone in this board and you cannot dent you are a plastic bandwagon jumper with no principles.

You HATED Cardiff City up until a few years ago.

I'm glad people stood their ground over this red business. It shows that 'some' still have principles yet others wouldn't know what principles were it bit them on the arse!!!!

And where were your principles when you changed clubs, tell us again, how long you been a Cardiff supporter, you may be happy to risk losing a club you have seen occasionally in the past 4 years, but other genuine long term loyal fans aren't prepared to take that risk.

It's answers like that which turn people against you as many people on this board know the truth. However you carry on taking that view point because it clearly shows that you don't have a proper answer to my points.

Gwyns Spin is full of Sin!!!

Adam ive known you longer than anyone in this board and you cannot dent you are a plastic bandwagon jumper with no principles.

You HATED Cardiff City up until a few years ago.

Rubbish!!!

Gwyn stated 4 years yet my banning order come into force over 10 years ago and was even the winner of the half time draw against Doncaster in '92, do you want me to go even further back ? But hey dont let the truth get in the way of a good story

Adam you are embarassing yourself.

Along with Jonny Owen you are the biggest case of Merthyr to Cardiff bandwagon jumping possible.

Cringing that you are trying to make out youve been a City fan for over 20 years.

Adam you are embarassing yourself.

Along with Jonny Owen you are the biggest case of Merthyr to Cardiff bandwagon jumping possible.

Cringing that you are trying to make out youve been a City fan for over 20 years.

Polo unfortunately we aren't as young as we once were. Think back and you will realise that the years have flown by.

so you are only a genuine cardiff city fan if you are prepared to throw away the clubs identity

Willinlgly if the other alternative is to go out of business, which one would you choose if push came to shove. because either way we wont have an identity, especially if we didn't have a club.

so your saying only genuine city fans like yourself and your followers give a shit about what will happen if they pull the plug your mistaken mate
i hate the idea of us playing in red but the way i look at it you, i and every other city don't have the choice, we don't own the club and don't make the decisions. if they are going to do it they will regardless of what we say
if these people pull out their backing it won't be because of the fans
you will have to question what their intenions were in the first place

im not slagging the owners off i hope they stay and take this club on hopefully in BLUE

Overwhelmingly against

Hmmm

Adam you are embarassing yourself.

Along with Jonny Owen you are the biggest case of Merthyr to Cardiff bandwagon jumping possible.

Cringing that you are trying to make out youve been a City fan for over 20 years.

Polo unfortunately we aren't as young as we once were. Think back and you will realise that the years have flown by.

PLEASE STOP BELIEVING YOUR OWN LIES!!!!

Adam you are embarassing yourself.

Along with Jonny Owen you are the biggest case of Merthyr to Cardiff bandwagon jumping possible.

Cringing that you are trying to make out youve been a City fan for over 20 years.

Polo unfortunately we aren't as young as we once were. Think back and you will realise that the years have flown by.

PLEASE STOP BELIEVING YOUR OWN LIES!!!!

Why ? Because you want this thread to continue as long as possible maybe ? The years have flown by

Adam you havw not been suppirting City for over 20 years.

Those that know you know the truth.

Ps. We didnt play Doncaster home in 92

Adam you havw not been suppirting City for over 20 years.

Those that know you know the truth.

Ps. We didnt play Doncaster home in 92

donnie were non league in 92 i think

Adam you havw not been suppirting City for over 20 years.

Those that know you know the truth.

Ps. We didnt play Doncaster home in 92

Yes we did it was a 1-1 draw and I was in the program for following home game. Still got it at home!!!!

My ban happened in 2001 which I still got my banning order card.

Catch up Polo you living in the past son!!!!

Adam you havw not been suppirting City for over 20 years.

Those that know you know the truth.

Ps. We didnt play Doncaster home in 92

donnie were non league in 92 i think

They were in our league. we didnt play them at home in 92 tho.

Adam you havw not been suppirting City for over 20 years.

Those that know you know the truth.

Ps. We didnt play Doncaster home in 92

donnie were non league in 92 i think

They were in our league. we didnt play them at home in 92 tho.

i stand corrected
why