12 million loss but club seem relaxed about things.

it's great we are again focusing on Youth, it was sad to see under the previous regime all the assets that the club had developed being sold off and with no young players coming in to secure a healthy long term growth, it was all crisis short term plunder management, but those involved have made a fortune out of it for themselves so perhaps they new what they were doing.

Sad to see us still make large losses and I wonder who is now responsible for the debt, don't pretend to be a financial wizard so quite baffled, but without the Malaysians owning the required 51% of shares, does this mean that all the Directors have a part debt, also if they (the Malaysians) do decide to move on, how will they intend to recoup their money. Don't think they plan to and thank God for them being here, but things change.

At least we have a manager with a good eye for developing stars, let's hope as at watford he don't get forced into selling them on.

I think we will see a significant improvement in next years accounts as the current set of accounts are as a result of a certain Mr Ridsdale in charge of the reins. Lots of wrongs are having to be put right and it can't be done overnight

Last edited by ihatealiens on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

wow! thats a lot of spondoolicks.....

I think we will see a significant improvement in next years accounts as the current set of accounts are as a result of a certain Mr Ridsdale in charge of the reins. Lots of wrongs are having to be put right and it can't be done overnight

this is a very salient point. initially there was a lot of fire fighting behind the scenes, but the accounts show that creditors are now being paid much sooner than happened previously. This is a good sign as it shows day to day cash flow is not as constrained as it was. it also shows that now the fire fighting has stopped, the real business development can begin. you cannot develop a business without a stable base...we now have a base to work from. i am pretty sure the 2012 statements will show an operating loss, albeit much smaller, with a lot more debt converted to equity.

Another thing that worries me about these accounts is that during the season 2010/2011 payroll costs were 98.83% of turnover, I'm no business man but that is surely the road to the bankruptcy courts.

I know that these figures represent the situation that was inherited by TG & VT but it really does show Ridsdale was out of control, in his final season payroll costs were 98.68% of turnover . A lot of these payroll costs were associated with contracts Ridsdale negotiated and for me it's utter madness and little wonder that under his control the club failed to publish it's accounts.

I hope that when the accounts for this season are published we see a big reduction in payroll costs as a % of turnover. This is one area where the Football League, Premier League, FA, UEFA and FIFA should step in a put a maximum % in place for payroll costs against turnover.

Maybe then we will see a reduction in the number of clubs facing administration.

Loss was always going to be huge. Let's not forget when they took over the club had no money, hmrc at our door every month and other creditors demanding money, no season ticket money. Then had to pay off the riddler and all his mates. Basically the malaysians had to bankrole the club for a season as we had next to no income.

Maybe we could have sold more players to balance it out but I think they are looking forward.
Things were always going to get worse before they got better.

20000plus crowds every game.12mil debt 1 year. Sorry sounds like we f##ked

20000plus crowds every game.12mil debt 1 year. Sorry sounds like we f##ked

don't forget - this WAS the position as off May Last Year - 10 months ago - a lot of things have changed since then, a lot of BIG wages earners have moved on....

20000plus crowds every game.12mil debt 1 year. Sorry sounds like we f##ked

don't forget - this WAS the position as off May Last Year - 10 months ago - a lot of things have changed since then, a lot of BIG wages earners have moved on....

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher if The Malasians are having to pump-in over a £1 million EVERY MONTH!

We've been shit or bust as a club for years - I'm sorry, but if you add everything into the mix, it doesn't look too healthy. I just hope that now that we've found a first class manager, he's allowed to see things through.

At least the last transfer window debacle is now put into perspective - we couldn't afford big wages so players didn't want to sign - is that a good thing or bad? IMHO, it is a good thing that we are not being reckless but we can ultimately kiss the Prem goodbye in the short term

When VT said he was in it for the 'long term' I think he underestimated how long that would need to be

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher

Well that isn't true is it? For example, a big part of the debt was converted to shares by VT wasn't it? I'm not saying there isn't a problem but what you've claimed isn't true.

I think a lot of people are taking this loss very negatively, if you read into depth u can clearly see the Malaysians intent here, like someone said before we sold no players through this time like we have done in previous years, any club can do this to make the p&l look better each year however the balance sheet then takes the hit ie assets.
carls post was correct the other day that total debt is close to 70m but this was as of may 2011 nearly one year ago.
looking at that year the investors were always going to have to pump millions in 14.5m to be precise just to meet short term liabilities ie tax and pmg isaccs etc.
What i am interested to find out is how we have done this year as looking at the BS nearly 25m is due betweeen one and 2 years ie pending this year and some next year what i would expect to see this year is that figure to reduce dramatically whether through use of increased revenue or further loans by the Malaysians to the club which will sit as long term liabilities on the BS next year, short term they appear to be trying to make the balance sheet look healthier through increased revenues reduced short term debt, once the clubs position balances ie assets vs liabilities which currently it shows us insolvent(in theory) then i would expect them to either convert the long term liabilities ie their loans into equtiy, ie shares, possibly leading to a full takeover, this appears their plan however if this doesn;t materialise then i would expect their debt to be secured in some way ie to the stadium which sits as a £51m asset on the books
what i am trying to say is cardiff city football club's balance sheet needs to show assets equally liabiltiies in future otherwise we are in theory insolvent, unable to meet debts should they be called in, however the plus side is that within a few years i would expect our sole debt to be to our Malaysian backers which would be taken back over a long period of time.

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher

Well that isn't true is it? For example, a big part of the debt was converted to shares by VT wasn't it? I'm not saying there isn't a problem but what you've claimed isn't true.

Under £6 mil has, out of say £30 mil in 2 years.

I would also like to know the value of our playing assets then/today/ a few years ago and about 4/5 years ago ? be very interesting read in my opinion.

What has made me very happy is after the last few years of our Youth policy being neglected its looks like its finally back on track. I have said for 20 years, the youth is our future and you build from there, do people agree ?

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher

Well that isn't true is it? For example, a big part of the debt was converted to shares by VT wasn't it? I'm not saying there isn't a problem but what you've claimed isn't true.

Under £6 mil has, out of say £30 mil in 2 years.

I would also like to know the value of our playing assets then/today/ a few years ago and about 4/5 years ago ? be very interesting read in my opinion.



What has made me very happy is after the last few years of our Youth policy being neglected its looks like its finally back on track. I have said for 20 years, the youth is our future and you build from there, do people agree ?

They wont convert anymore shares yet as it will take them over the 49% mark. It says in the accounts they can do that at anytime so not rush from there point of view.

I am AAT qualified in Accounting and having looked through the accounts quickly they are more or less like for like with May 2010 accounts the exception that May 2010 accounts had an influx of £11.5m from the sale of Ninian park along with the sale of 2 plots of land adjacent to the stadium(i.e. House of Sport and Hotel Site). That is the reason nobody is worried. In other words last years accounts had an additional £11m of revenue that wouldnt normally form the basis of regular trading.

I am AAT qualified in Accounting and having looked through the accounts quickly they are more or less like for like with the exception that last years accounts had an influx of £11.5m from the sale of Ninian park along with the sale of 2 plots of land adjacent to the stadium(i.e. House of Sport and Hotel Site). That is the reason nobody is worried. In other words last years accounts had an additional £11m of revenue that wouldnt normally form the basis of regular trading.

That makes sense
How much did we spend maying off the likes of Ridsdale and all his mates? 2m? 3m?) and lets not forget no season ticket income 5m?

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher

Well that isn't true is it? For example, a big part of the debt was converted to shares by VT wasn't it? I'm not saying there isn't a problem but what you've claimed isn't true.

Under £6 mil has, out of say £30 mil in 2 years.

I would also like to know the value of our playing assets then/today/ a few years ago and about 4/5 years ago ? be very interesting read in my opinion.



What has made me very happy is after the last few years of our Youth policy being neglected its looks like its finally back on track. I have said for 20 years, the youth is our future and you build from there, do people agree ?

They wont convert anymore shares yet as it will take them over the 49% mark. It says in the accounts they can do that at anytime so not rush from there point of view.

Luke just say the debt is near £30 mil at this present moment, might be a couple of mill out, do you think thats ok ? Does it sound right ? Are we progressing ?

Are you pleased that we are now investing again our youth ?

Whats the value of our current squad ?

Sorry I correct my earlier statement, the income in May 2010 from selling off Ninian Park and two plots of land was £7.2m, we also received £4.1m profit on disposal of player's registrations (transfer fees??)in year to May 2010. Add these together to get £11.4m profit on disposal of fixed assets in year to May 2010. In May 2011 the figure was £460,000, that's how much profit we made on disposal of player's registrations (transfer fees) in year to May 2011.

The only thing that has changed is the value of our debt which will no doubt be a lot higher

Well that isn't true is it? For example, a big part of the debt was converted to shares by VT wasn't it? I'm not saying there isn't a problem but what you've claimed isn't true.

Under £6 mil has, out of say £30 mil in 2 years.

I would also like to know the value of our playing assets then/today/ a few years ago and about 4/5 years ago ? be very interesting read in my opinion.



What has made me very happy is after the last few years of our Youth policy being neglected its looks like its finally back on track. I have said for 20 years, the youth is our future and you build from there, do people agree ?

They wont convert anymore shares yet as it will take them over the 49% mark. It says in the accounts they can do that at anytime so not rush from there point of view.

Luke just say the debt is near £30 mil at this present moment, might be a couple of mill out, do you think thats ok ? Does it sound right ? Are we progressing ?

Are you pleased that we are now investing again our youth ?

Whats the value of our current squad ?

No 30m is to high and ive always said when the malasyians took over I would have sold all the assets we had and gone and cut the debts right back. Its why im not always so keen on signing players all the time as I think we already have assets that could be used more.

Youth I think we have to break down into two parts. I think MM has beeb brilliant signing youth with the likes of Mason, Ralls, Harris etc all being bought to play in the youth team and then progressing. DJ's biggest failure was ignoring the youth and not having a longer term plan.
However I would like to see more investment in our youth academy and see our own players coming through like the Ramsey, Matthews, blake etc. I would really like to see us scouting Wales for some gems as im certain we are missing out on some.

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

I dont see next seasons debt being much different if im honest. I think it will be a few years until we are looking at balancing the books unless we sell players.

Value of squad link here Annis
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73770

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

I dont see next seasons debt being much different if im honest. I think it will be a few years until we are looking at balancing the books unless we sell players.

Value of squad link here Annis
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73770

Cheers Luke, just seen it and I value our squad about £7-£8 mill. Remember our goalies are both out of contract, so worth nil.

Players like Earnie and Parkin could not sell as their wages are so high. Be lucky to give them away.

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

I dont see next seasons debt being much different if im honest. I think it will be a few years until we are looking at balancing the books unless we sell players.

Value of squad link here Annis
http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewt ... =2&t=73770

Cheers Luke, just seen it and I value our squad about £7-£8 mill. Remember our goalies are both out of contract, so worth nil.

Players like Earnie and Parkin could not sell as their wages are so high. Be lucky to give them away.

Your right about the keepers, forgot they were both out of contract. I still think its worth more than that though, Witts, Turner and Gunnarrson along must be worth around or just below that value.

The club has clearly stated its perception of the Langston debt:

15m + 3.2m interest (so far) - none of which is payable until 2016 - so they dont see that they need to pay the interest payments each month, they just add up and get paid in 2016

9m - for naming rights - well this would be money coming in from a third party and going straight out to Langston so its not going to come from the club's current assets - however this deal doesn't seem to offer any incentive for the club to go and seek a naming deal so that looks like a stalemate

5m one off - again, only due if we get to the prem so its money that would just pass through the clubs hands from league to Langston

I found that interesting anyway

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

ForeverBlue

we lost £12m in 2011 with an average crowd of 23k. The operating loss was similar to 2010 but we did not have any significant player sales or sale of NP to mitigate those losses in 2011. The cost of the stadium and setting up the academy does not appear in the P&L save for deprecation and set up costs.

It would be hard to say how much we would lose in 2012 but match day income is probably the same as season ticket prices are fixed for most meaning income is unlikely to rise. We should see an increase in other income as well as additional revenue from the Carling Cup. I also imagine the direct costs of playing will come down now that we have our high earners off the wage bill. I reckon a conservative estimate would be a £5-6m loss, maybe a bit more.

the value of the current squad is only relevant from an accounting perspective if they hold any net present value. That is, if the cost of acquiring the player has not been fully amortised. Do I think our players (IFAs) have more value today - books wise no, playing wise, probably yes given they are younger and have yet to reach full potential

Rgds
Damian

Damian(Feedback) or Keith(Since 62)

So, am I right in thinking we lost £12 mill in 2010/11 season with an average home crowd of 23,000 ?
With the stadium all finished/Academy already set up ?

How much do you think we lost in 2011/12 season ?


What value would you put on the current squad ?

Well for start annis you got the 12-16million over the season the malaysians are putting in to keep the club afloat on a monthy basis so who knows i think it will be sky high by the time the next set are put out to the public, due to paying off staff and the malaysian dream we seem to have over there with youth plus many other things

No city player in the Welsh under 21s......12 mil loss in one year. Face the facts. Were f##ked.