Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:54 pm
taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
its one simple answer its the populations right to determine who they are governed by the population have chosen to be British thats it no other argument is required.
Its the same argument the Scottish are giving that its their right to be ruled/governed by who they want self determination is the key
Self determination is behind the reason why our war in Iraq is largely considered illegal
Its why our intervention in Libya is widely considered a successful intervention.
If the population of the Falkland Islands want to be governed by Argentina they can but they dont, they want to be British and are happy with that
Its a strange situation given they are so far away but if you want to look at it on a geographical view we might as well give the Channel Islands to the French or the Germans as I believe they were the last occupying force.
The World has moved on since we had Soverign rights and the rights of conquerors its evolved and recognises the rights of self-determination and not the rights of the people who wave the biggest sabre.
If Argentina force a regime unwanted by a population the UN should have alarm bells ringing.
We seem to be more concerned about countries that have nothing to do with us and are prepared to stand up for their self-determination but seem to criticise our own rights and leave our own population hang out to dry.
Its all well and good for you to say "ah that was 1840 and times have changed" etc etc
But the Argentinian garrison at the time was forcibly removed by a bigger Naval
Force simply because Britain decided THEY wanted the Islands
At THAT time, the population would have voted to remain part of Argentina...
Britain never gave them the choice, they threw them off and colonised it.
Britain forced regime change back then.
Self-determination eh? The World recognises it? Really?
Try telling millions of Palestinians that
Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:13 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:15 pm
krabb wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
its one simple answer its the populations right to determine who they are governed by the population have chosen to be British thats it no other argument is required.
Its the same argument the Scottish are giving that its their right to be ruled/governed by who they want self determination is the key
Self determination is behind the reason why our war in Iraq is largely considered illegal
Its why our intervention in Libya is widely considered a successful intervention.
If the population of the Falkland Islands want to be governed by Argentina they can but they dont, they want to be British and are happy with that
Its a strange situation given they are so far away but if you want to look at it on a geographical view we might as well give the Channel Islands to the French or the Germans as I believe they were the last occupying force.
The World has moved on since we had Soverign rights and the rights of conquerors its evolved and recognises the rights of self-determination and not the rights of the people who wave the biggest sabre.
If Argentina force a regime unwanted by a population the UN should have alarm bells ringing.
We seem to be more concerned about countries that have nothing to do with us and are prepared to stand up for their self-determination but seem to criticise our own rights and leave our own population hang out to dry.
Its all well and good for you to say "ah that was 1840 and times have changed" etc etc
But the Argentinian garrison at the time was forcibly removed by a bigger Naval
Force simply because Britain decided THEY wanted the Islands
At THAT time, the population would have voted to remain part of Argentina...
Britain never gave them the choice, they threw them off and colonised it.
Britain forced regime change back then.
Self-determination eh? The World recognises it? Really?
Try telling millions of Palestinians that
its called HISTORY,were do you stop,give america back to the indians,australia back to aboriginies,the people that live on the falklands and for that reason and that reason alone,we ssupport them
Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:37 pm
Johnny Rythmn wrote:It's one of the most strategic points on the planet for shipping.
The Atlantic meets the Pacific and theirs oil there.
Mmmmmmmm! Tasty...not forgetting the penguins and the Phil Stant effort eh
Seriously, I think the brits should give it to the Paddys as an apology
Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:34 pm
taffyapple wrote:krabb wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
its one simple answer its the populations right to determine who they are governed by the population have chosen to be British thats it no other argument is required.
Its the same argument the Scottish are giving that its their right to be ruled/governed by who they want self determination is the key
Self determination is behind the reason why our war in Iraq is largely considered illegal
Its why our intervention in Libya is widely considered a successful intervention.
If the population of the Falkland Islands want to be governed by Argentina they can but they dont, they want to be British and are happy with that
Its a strange situation given they are so far away but if you want to look at it on a geographical view we might as well give the Channel Islands to the French or the Germans as I believe they were the last occupying force.
The World has moved on since we had Soverign rights and the rights of conquerors its evolved and recognises the rights of self-determination and not the rights of the people who wave the biggest sabre.
If Argentina force a regime unwanted by a population the UN should have alarm bells ringing.
We seem to be more concerned about countries that have nothing to do with us and are prepared to stand up for their self-determination but seem to criticise our own rights and leave our own population hang out to dry.
Its all well and good for you to say "ah that was 1840 and times have changed" etc etc
But the Argentinian garrison at the time was forcibly removed by a bigger Naval
Force simply because Britain decided THEY wanted the Islands
At THAT time, the population would have voted to remain part of Argentina...
Britain never gave them the choice, they threw them off and colonised it.
Britain forced regime change back then.
Self-determination eh? The World recognises it? Really?
Try telling millions of Palestinians that
its called HISTORY,were do you stop,give america back to the indians,australia back to aboriginies,the people that live on the falklands and for that reason and that reason alone,we ssupport them
Totally off the track. The 'indians' were the original inhabitants of the USA, as were the
aborigines in Australia.
Lets not forget that a proportion of Falkland Islanders were of mixed Spanish and British
descent and until AFTER the Falklands war, they did not even hold British passports.
They were not classed as 'British'... only British dependants. They could not enter the
British Isles like ordinary citizens. Britain bribed them. When Argentina 'invaded' a
lot of the islanders werent even that arsed, it made no difference to them. It wasnt
Britain that was buying agricultural products off them, it was Argentina.
Now it does, because they are the most heavily subsidised British subjects on Earth
(another bribe)... they had a roaring trade with the Argentinians buying lamb off
them. Sooner than re-opening old trading routes, Britain paid the farmers ridiculous
amounts of money to just BURN surplus animals rather that build up links with
Argentina again.
So of course they vote to be British now. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.
I'm not pro Argentina. Of course I'm not. f**k em. But f**k the Falkland Isles
too, f**k the inbred farmers. Did they used to send their sons to fight for
Britain? did they f**k.
Argentina WILL regain sovereignty or at least a joint sovereignty. Britain cant
afford to fight for the Islands again.
Will those Islanders feel betrayed? Yeh, for a while. Until the Argentinians start
subsidising them too.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:18 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:42 pm
taffyapple wrote:But the Argentinian garrison at the time was forcibly removed by a bigger Naval
Force simply because Britain decided THEY wanted the Islands
At THAT time, the population would have voted to remain part of Argentina...
Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:53 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:00 pm
MAESTEG BLUE wrote:Johnny Rythmn wrote:It's one of the most strategic points on the planet for shipping.
The Atlantic meets the Pacific and theirs oil there.
Mmmmmmmm! Tasty...not forgetting the penguins and the Phil Stant effort eh
Seriously, I think the brits should give it to the Paddys as an apology
apology my arse you paddies are getting your own back by quietly invading the british mainland breeding like rabbits and are slowly becoming the majority here
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:01 pm
krabb wrote:taffy,you seem a well informed bloke,but i got to agree with jonny,maybe im missing something here,and just to let you know,i was an 18 year old apprentice electrician when we fought the argentinians,and i can honestly say i was ready to go if
it did get to the call up stage,i felt then and would feel know that a part of britain was being invaded,but just my opinion,as we are all entitled to![]()
![]()
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:15 pm
taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:18 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:23 pm
AHERNE wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
great post and spot on! ... the falklands belong to argentina ... we stole it from them in the early 1800`s! ... time to give back whats rightly theirs! ... lets me honest who the f**k even heard of the place before 1981?????
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 pm
JONNY012697 wrote:the fact that they live so far away has nothing to do with it
your trying to be clever and failing spectacularly
Britain has 14 overseas territories remnanats of the British Empire
Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Montserrat
Pitcairn Islands
Saint Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia
Turks and Caicos Islands
They are all self governed and declare loyalty to the Crown and Monarch namely Queen Elizabeth II
They have all chosen by self-determination to fly under the British Flag
I know what your trying to do you just say the complete opposite of what our Government says
I bet you a £1 if the Government were in talks to give the Falklands to the Argentinians you would be here waving your sabre telling us we should do all we can to help them.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:33 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:38 pm
JONNY012697 wrote:AHERNE wrote:taffyapple wrote:JONNY012697 wrote:this really annoys me the Argentinians talk about Sovereignty like its their God given right completely ignoring self determination and apparently we are the bad guys
The Falklands were theirs almost 2 centuries ago.
The island population are British they are proud to be British and anything the Argentinian government or the British government say will change that. The Argentinians have no rights to those islands and the British government have no right to hand them over.
Yes, there are British subjects on those Islands who want the Islands to
remain British. Thats fair enough. Britain getting behind them and
saying 'f**k off Argentina' is also fair enough.
But right up until the time Britain colonised the Islands, Argentina were
still claiming them as THEIR sovereign territory. So by what divine right
do Britain hold claim to the Islands? Argentina called them trespassers
then and call them trespassers now!!!
Argentina's argument (valid, of course, in their eyes) is that the people
who by self-determination, claim the Islands for Britain are seen as no
more than squatters by Argentina. Squatters who refuse to leave and who
have had the cheek to call the property their own.
great post and spot on! ... the falklands belong to argentina ... we stole it from them in the early 1800`s! ... time to give back whats rightly theirs! ... lets me honest who the f**k even heard of the place before 1981?????
I suppose your talking about 1832 where The Argentinians turned up to build a penal colony on the Islands they lasted 4 days before a mutiny ensued and the Argentinians killed their commander, they stayed for a further 2 months before the British forces arrived and politely told the Argentinians to piss off.
They tried and failed then
They tried and failed in 1982
They will try and fail now.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:03 pm
Bakedalasker wrote:It is too soon to hand the Falklands over. I lost mates in that war and I expect any British government to respect what they fought for.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:16 pm
taffyapple wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:It is too soon to hand the Falklands over. I lost mates in that war and I expect any British government to respect what they fought for.
Same as Northern Ireland mate. Hand it over they will, but the capitulation will
be hidden behind rhetoric and politi-speak making it look like its what 'we' were
after in the first place. Im going to give the game away early here. My auntie's
neighbor is an old boy who lived on the Falklands for donkeys years. Came back
in the 90's. He himself reckons the Falkland islanders have more faces than the
town hall clock. They would have backed whoever won that war. Sad but true.
Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:07 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:24 pm
Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:51 pm
Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:44 am
krabb wrote:i say f@ck ummmmm
Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:18 pm
Bakedalasker wrote:taffyapple wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:It is too soon to hand the Falklands over. I lost mates in that war and I expect any British government to respect what they fought for.
Same as Northern Ireland mate. Hand it over they will, but the capitulation will
be hidden behind rhetoric and politi-speak making it look like its what 'we' were
after in the first place. Im going to give the game away early here. My auntie's
neighbor is an old boy who lived on the Falklands for donkeys years. Came back
in the 90's. He himself reckons the Falkland islanders have more faces than the
town hall clock. They would have backed whoever won that war. Sad but true.
Had a couple of mates in the paras who fought in the Falklands war. After the Argentines surrendered they had an argument with some of the Falklanders about "convenience". That is the Falkland islanders doing business with Argentina before the war broke out. The paras asked the questions about the locals returning to business with the Argentines once the fighting troops had left. The now residents, known as Bennys due to their resemblence of that Crossroads character, where very uncomfortable in their replies.
The cameras showed them rejoicing with the cameras but behind the scenes there were some soldiers learning who the real enemies were.