Steps to Solve Atmosphere Issues at CCS...

I can't see this working at all................

steps.jpg

You joke but I did think it was a step based joke when I seen the title

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

This will never happen, you cant just move people without permission. Not everyone wants to move, a lot of people are happy with where they seat. People come attached to seats and the people they are surrounded by etc etc.

More chance of moving the away fans but again massively unlikely.

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

This will never happen, you cant just move people without permission. Not everyone wants to move, a lot of people are happy with where they seat. People come attached to seats and the people they are surrounded by etc etc.

More chance of moving the away fans but again massively unlikely.

You are sadly misguided if you think that the club need your permission, if they feel they want to change anything within their stadium including our seating arrangements.

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

Overall the club has carried out 4 surveys and in total have had responses from 4,000 approx.

The vast majority had concerns about issues such as parking, exiting the stadium and prices of beer and food at the outlets in CCS.

Each stand has been surveyed and the Canton stand was the one which had the most requests to swap ends.

I hope this helps you, I said before your getting confused but we will put that down to age

I too am in favour of safe standing but believe it is unlikely to happen at CCS, I am also in favour of swapping the two ends to help with the atmosphere but also recognise that if this move ever materialised then it would not be the total solution but believe it would help.

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

Spot on Carlos

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Cheers for clearing that up Keith!

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

This will never happen, you cant just move people without permission. Not everyone wants to move, a lot of people are happy with where they seat. People come attached to seats and the people they are surrounded by etc etc.

More chance of moving the away fans but again massively unlikely.

You are sadly misguided if you think that the club need your permission, if they feel they want to change anything within their stadium including our seating arrangements.

No of course they don't.
Point is the club don't want to move and not all fans want to move, they would please a few thousand but also anger other fans.
I've never been in family stand but haven't they done a lot of work to make it good for families? How much would it cost to change it all.

On the while i agree with merlin, ground needs people singing not movement.

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

So only 204 people responded , suggesting that the rest didn`t see swapping ends as something they wanted , or they would have said so surely? And of those who did respond , less than 1% said they wanted to swap.



Overall the club has carried out 4 surveys and in total have had responses from 4,000 approx.

How many of those 4,000 responses , how many asked to swap ends?

The vast majority had concerns about issues such as parking, exiting the stadium and prices of beer and food at the outlets in CCS.

I too , like many others ,have seen the results of the survey in Julian`s presentation and agree that the above areas were the main points of concern raised , together with fans constantly standing in front of them and blocking their view of the game.

Each stand has been surveyed and the Canton stand was the one which had the most requests to swap ends.

How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?

I hope this helps you, I said before your getting confused but we will put that down to age

Not confused at all , and can still spot the difference between "your" and "you`re" even at this advanced age .



I too am in favour of safe standing but believe it is unlikely to happen at CCS, I am also in favour of swapping the two ends to help with the atmosphere but also recognise that if this move ever materialised then it would not be the total solution but believe it would help.

And what about the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

No idea , as I wasn`t there , but it sounded OK on TV.

Keith

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

In fairness watching Swansea pass it back and forth accross their own penalty area for 90 minutes would kill the atmosphere at just about any ground...

There IS an alternative, a good one. All the fans who are appalled by people standing up
and swearing should re-locate to the 'Grandstand' and the corner of the Canton....
Give them cheap seats so they can all sit together. Then watch the Ninian and Canton fill
up with passionate supporters who want to make a noise, want to intimidate the away team,
want to show the City players just how much they are behind them.

It wont happen, because the 'sitters' wont compromise. They dont have to. They have got
what they want. If anyone stands, swears, stink of ale, acts 'yobbish'...all the 'sitters' need
do is clock the guys seat number and have a word in a stewards ear.

by sitting them all in the other stand, it would become like the old Grandstand, without Blocks A
and B. Perfect.

But guess what their complaint would be in many cases "aw we're too far away from the atmosphere"

They dont realise their the ones who have killed it

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

So only 204 people responded , suggesting that the rest didn`t see swapping ends as something they wanted , or they would have said so surely? And of those who did respond , less than 1% said they wanted to swap.



Overall the club has carried out 4 surveys and in total have had responses from 4,000 approx.

How many of those 4,000 responses , how many asked to swap ends?

The vast majority had concerns about issues such as parking, exiting the stadium and prices of beer and food at the outlets in CCS.

I too , like many others ,have seen the results of the survey in Julian`s presentation and agree that the above areas were the main points of concern raised , together with fans constantly standing in front of them and blocking their view of the game.

Each stand has been surveyed and the Canton stand was the one which had the most requests to swap ends.

How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?

I hope this helps you, I said before your getting confused but we will put that down to age

Not confused at all , and can still spot the difference between "your" and "you`re" even at this advanced age .



I too am in favour of safe standing but believe it is unlikely to happen at CCS, I am also in favour of swapping the two ends to help with the atmosphere but also recognise that if this move ever materialised then it would not be the total solution but believe it would help.

And what about the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

No idea , as I wasn`t there , but it sounded OK on TV.

Keith

Your best bet is to bold your answers Keith as it does not stand out too well if you reply within a "quote"

I was pointing out to you that only 204 responded to the family stand survey, I cannot speak for everyone of course but as you know I sit in the family stand along with my children and my brother and his children and have friends around us and none of us ever saw or heard about the survey until the results were announced but not to cloud the issue I wanted to point out that not everyone as you say stated they did not wish to move stands bar 2 people as only 204 responded to the said survey.

You also asked Keith "How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?"

You would have to speak with Julian who give me the information today that I posted and taking into account Julian oversaw the 4 surveys I trust what he tells me is indeed correct and it was the survey of the Canton Stand that had the most requests to 'swap ends'.

with regards to and I quote your good self "the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?"

I don't think by swapping ends that any number of fans would spoil it for anyone else as that is why we have stewards and they seem to be on top of those who persistently stand in areas of the ground where it is not acceptable Keith. Are you suggesting that certain fans no longer come to the game because they don't wish to go in the Canton Stand but would go to the game if that end was swapped?

With regard to the club's reputation I believe that has improved as a result of measures that were implemented before the CCS and not as a result of the move to the new stadium.

Call it the clubs new image and family club of the year is all good but at the end of the day it is boring imo,if I wanted a boring family stadium experience I'd start watching cricket bring back the ninian park atmosphere days that's what Cardiff city is all about imo.

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

So only 204 people responded , suggesting that the rest didn`t see swapping ends as something they wanted , or they would have said so surely? And of those who did respond , less than 1% said they wanted to swap.



Overall the club has carried out 4 surveys and in total have had responses from 4,000 approx.

How many of those 4,000 responses , how many asked to swap ends?

The vast majority had concerns about issues such as parking, exiting the stadium and prices of beer and food at the outlets in CCS.

I too , like many others ,have seen the results of the survey in Julian`s presentation and agree that the above areas were the main points of concern raised , together with fans constantly standing in front of them and blocking their view of the game.

Each stand has been surveyed and the Canton stand was the one which had the most requests to swap ends.

How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?

I hope this helps you, I said before your getting confused but we will put that down to age

Not confused at all , and can still spot the difference between "your" and "you`re" even at this advanced age .



I too am in favour of safe standing but believe it is unlikely to happen at CCS, I am also in favour of swapping the two ends to help with the atmosphere but also recognise that if this move ever materialised then it would not be the total solution but believe it would help.

And what about the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

No idea , as I wasn`t there , but it sounded OK on TV.

Keith

Your best bet is to bold your answers Keith as it does not stand out too well if you reply within a "quote"

I was pointing out to you that only 204 responded to the family stand survey, I cannot speak for everyone of course but as you know I sit in the family stand along with my children and my brother and his children and have friends around us and none of us ever saw or heard about the survey until the results were announced but not to cloud the issue I wanted to point out that not everyone as you say stated they did not wish to move stands bar 2 people as only 204 responded to the said survey.
WHAT I WAS ILLUSTRATING WAS THAT LESS THAN 1% OF THOSE THAT REPLIED WANTED TO SWAP ENDS.THE FACT THAT OTHERS DIDN`T RESPOND AT LEAST SUGGESTS THAT THEY HAD NO STRONG FEELINGS TO SWAP . OR THEY WOULD HAVE RESPONDED ACCORDINGLY. OTHERS , LIKE YOURSELF , MAY SIMPLY HAVE MISSED THE SURVEY , ALTHOUGH JULIAN IS ADAMANT THAT IT WAS SENT TO ALL SEASON TICKET HOLDERS IN THE FAMILY STAND.
You also asked Keith "How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?"

You would have to speak with Julian who give me the information today that I posted and taking into account Julian oversaw the 4 surveys I trust what he tells me is indeed correct and it was the survey of the Canton Stand that had the most requests to 'swap ends'.

I WILL GET THE FIGURES FROM JULIAN TOMORROW.IT MAY BE THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THE CANTON END ASKED TO SWAP , BUT THIS SEEMS HIGHLY UNLIKELY OR THEIR VIEWS WOULD HAVE PRODUCED A MATERIAL TOTAL IN THE SURVEYS WHICH DOESN`T APPEAR TO BE THE CASE.AND TO GET" MOST REQUESTS " COULD HAVE INVOLVED A NUMBER AS LOW AS 3.

with regards to and I quote your good self "the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?"

THE CLUB HAS SAVED MANY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF POUNDS IN REDUCED POLICE AND STEWARDING COSTS BY SETTING UP THE GROUND AS IT IS.DO YOU NOT AGREE AS YOU HAVE STAYED SILENT ON MY POINT?

I don't think by swapping ends that any number of fans would spoil it for anyone else as that is why we have stewards and they seem to be on top of those who persistently stand in areas of the ground where it is not acceptable Keith. Are you suggesting that certain fans no longer come to the game because they don't wish to go in the Canton Stand but would go to the game if that end was swapped?

YOU ARE ONE OF ABOUT 16 OR SO TRAVEL GROUP REPRESENTATIVES AND REGULARLY GO TO AWAY GAMES.SO SURELY HAVE SEEN INCIDENTS WHERE JUST A FEW IDIOTS CANNOT BEHAVE THEMSELVES AND CAUSE THE CLUB REPUTATIONAL DAMAGE DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE PERCENTAGE OF OVERALL FANS THAT TRAVEL , THE OVERWHELMING VAST MAJORITY OF WHOM GO THE GAMES WITHOUT CAUSING ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL?

YOUR POINT ABOUT" FANS NO LONGER COME TO THE GAME"JUST DOESN`T MAKE SENSE AS I HAVE MADE NO SUCH SUGGESTION. PEOPLE COME TO CCFC GAMES IN LARGE NUMBERS BECAUSE THEY ARE FANS OF THE CLUB , ENJOY THE QUALITY OF FOOTBALL BEING PRODUCED AND (ESPECIALLY FOR FAMILIES AND WOMEN) BECAUSE IT IS NOW A FAR SAFER ENVIRONMENT FOR THEM TO DO SO.

With regard to the club's reputation I believe that has improved as a result of measures that were implemented before the CCS and not as a result of the move to the new stadium.

1. Swap the Canton Stand and the Family Stand around.

2. Put two large fences to segregate the home and away fans. The bubbled area which is left between the two fences can be where the stewards and police are.

3. Install the safe standing seating used by clubs in Europe in the new standing stand.

Three simple steps. Yes, policing costs might increase slightly and there will no doubt be the odd tw*t who does their best to prove the do gooders right about why the current system is in place but overall I feel the club and the stadium's atmosphere would benefit from these steps... provided league regulations are changed to allow for the safe standing seating.

1. This would ride roughshot over the views of the 6k or so people who have bought tickets in the Family Stand , have all been surveyed by the club , and the overwhelming majority of whom (ask Julian Jenkins who oversaw the survey , I think it was only 2 people said they wanted to swap) were very happy with the ground configuration as it is.
Why should the views of a relatively small number of people outweigh the wishes of a far larger majority?
There was a petition made through this board (by an individual poster , not an official board petition) which raised only a few hundred "signatures" in total in favour of an end swap. And many of those "signatures" were duplications , ficticious(they claimed to include TG!) or were people who weren`t even City fans (drummed up through mates on facebook etc) , let alone fans using either end of the ground.

2.So go back to the "dark ages" again? And at a substantial financial cost to the club , running to many hundreds of thousands of £ (the club have the costings , details of savings in policing costs with the current system etc) as well as potential big reputational cost to the club (we still have enough idiots , as evidenced at several away games, to set us back years as their behaviour can`t be trusted).Under the current system there have been virtually no arrests at home games and away support has increased because visiting fans , including families , now feel safer in visiting us.

3.I actually am in favour of safe standing as an alternative to terracing (some people confuse the two totally different concepts). But it is a potential solution for clubs that are not already in all seater stadia , as the cost to retrofit is huge (the FSF`s initial research suggests an installation cost of over £100 per seat on top of the cost of removal of existing seating).In addition , there would be problems with exits from the relevant areas of the ground which have been designed on a seating basis for fire and other safety bases - so there would be even more expensive construction costs involved.
So safe standing is far more likely to be of benefit to smaller clubs getting promoted up to Championship level and above who would have to get rid of their existing terracing (if they are not already all seater) and are looking for a viable alternative.

A further problem is that the Government is very much against the idea of moving from all seater stadia and will take a hell of a lot of pursuading by the FSF and others to change their mind any time soon.

So your suggestions , as well meaning as they might be , are far from simple , cheap , or even fair to the vast majority of City fans involved.

Keith I just wish to highlight your first point regarding the survey you mentioned carried out in the family stand. Out of the whole of the family stand that were surveyed just 204 fans responded not the whole of the stand's season ticket holders. (Ask Julian Jenkins).

So only 204 people responded , suggesting that the rest didn`t see swapping ends as something they wanted , or they would have said so surely? And of those who did respond , less than 1% said they wanted to swap.



Overall the club has carried out 4 surveys and in total have had responses from 4,000 approx.

How many of those 4,000 responses , how many asked to swap ends?

The vast majority had concerns about issues such as parking, exiting the stadium and prices of beer and food at the outlets in CCS.

I too , like many others ,have seen the results of the survey in Julian`s presentation and agree that the above areas were the main points of concern raised , together with fans constantly standing in front of them and blocking their view of the game.

Each stand has been surveyed and the Canton stand was the one which had the most requests to swap ends.

How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?

I hope this helps you, I said before your getting confused but we will put that down to age

Not confused at all , and can still spot the difference between "your" and "you`re" even at this advanced age .



I too am in favour of safe standing but believe it is unlikely to happen at CCS, I am also in favour of swapping the two ends to help with the atmosphere but also recognise that if this move ever materialised then it would not be the total solution but believe it would help.

And what about the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?

For those who point out Anfield don't have such problems, I was only speaking to 3 jacks this week who said they were disappointed with the atmosphere at Liverpool.

No idea , as I wasn`t there , but it sounded OK on TV.

Keith

Your best bet is to bold your answers Keith as it does not stand out too well if you reply within a "quote"

I was pointing out to you that only 204 responded to the family stand survey, I cannot speak for everyone of course but as you know I sit in the family stand along with my children and my brother and his children and have friends around us and none of us ever saw or heard about the survey until the results were announced but not to cloud the issue I wanted to point out that not everyone as you say stated they did not wish to move stands bar 2 people as only 204 responded to the said survey.

You also asked Keith "How many? Not mentioned in Julian`s presentation which didn`t have a request to swap ends registering at all. Do you have access to another survey result which suggests otherwise?"

You would have to speak with Julian who give me the information today that I posted and taking into account Julian oversaw the 4 surveys I trust what he tells me is indeed correct and it was the survey of the Canton Stand that had the most requests to 'swap ends'.

with regards to and I quote your good self "the huge financial costs of swapping the ends? And do you really believe that a small number of our fans would not spoil it for everyone else by their inability to control their behaviour if it were to happen and set the club`s reputation( which it has worked so hard to improve in recent years) back ?"

I don't think by swapping ends that any number of fans would spoil it for anyone else as that is why we have stewards and they seem to be on top of those who persistently stand in areas of the ground where it is not acceptable Keith. Are you suggesting that certain fans no longer come to the game because they don't wish to go in the Canton Stand but would go to the game if that end was swapped?

With regard to the club's reputation I believe that has improved as a result of measures that were implemented before the CCS and not as a result of the move to the new stadium.