HILLSBOROUGH TRUTH>

I've not denied that the police were partly to blame. They were. But to exonerate the ticketless fans who were trying to get in and eventually surged past the police isn't really right. It lets them off as much as hiding the documents lets off the authorities responsible, too. To say that fans without tickets will turn up anyway and to cite 2 occassions when our fans turned up well, that doesn't make it right. If you haven't got a ticket don't turn up is how the saying goes, but we all know that doesn't work in the real world. It's always someone elses fault with the scousers. First Heysel was Chelsea's fault then Hillsboro wasn't the fault of anyone else but the authorities. Yes, the authorities were at fault, but sometimes they need to take a look closer to home before pointing the finger and putting 100% of the blame on other people

The fans nicking in had no idea of the problems inside but the police were well aware of what was going on.
If the liverpool fans nicking in knew of the problems inside it is very, very unlikely they would have continued pushing to get in.
Yet, the police who were aware of the situation did nothing to alleviate the problem when they had the means available.
Had the Heysell incident not included Liverpool fans then sympathy would have been much greater.
A lot of people consider it Karma but I'm not a Buddhist.

A programe well worth watching

http://www.documentary-film.net/search/ ... p?&ref=129

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

No, sorry, I don't buy this. Another case of self pity city syndrome. Yes, the police could have handled it better, much better. But you can't exonerate the drunken, ticketless scousers of any blame. If they knew it was an all ticket game, why turn up? OK, so we've all probably done it, but the fact is that some of these fans obviously tried to force their way in, and some succeeded. So there's some of your blame right there

Agree Nottage - well put.

I find that disgusting

Your both Football supporters. There has NEVER been a shred of evidence to suggest
that there were hundreds of ticketless fans trying to force their way in. Police STARTED
that rumour and were forced to retract it. The gates were most definitely NOT forced
open by fans..,they were opened by the police. The police ADMITTED that too.

Drunken?? Well well well, Cardiff City fans on a day like that would have been on the
Orange Squash would we.

I suggest you go and buy the Sun lads. Remember them Cardiff/Swansea fans fighting at
Wembley the other week. eh?

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

No, sorry, I don't buy this. Another case of self pity city syndrome. Yes, the police could have handled it better, much better. But you can't exonerate the drunken, ticketless scousers of any blame. If they knew it was an all ticket game, why turn up? OK, so we've all probably done it, but the fact is that some of these fans obviously tried to force their way in, and some succeeded. So there's some of your blame right there

Agree Nottage - well put.

I find that disgusting

Your both Football supporters. There has NEVER been a shred of evidence to suggest
that there were hundreds of ticketless fans trying to force their way in. Police STARTED
that rumour and were forced to retract it. The gates were most definitely NOT forced
open by fans..,they were opened by the police. The police ADMITTED that too.

Drunken?? Well well well, Cardiff City fans on a day like that would have been on the
Orange Squash would we.

I suggest you go and buy the Sun lads. Remember them Cardiff/Swansea fans fighting at
Wembley the other week. eh?

Remember West Ham fans at the first Wembley final?

What a great day that was eh?

The fans nicking in had no idea of the problems inside but the police were well aware of what was going on.
If the liverpool fans nicking in knew of the problems inside it is very, very unlikely they would have continued pushing to get in.
Yet, the police who were aware of the situation did nothing to alleviate the problem when they had the means available.
Had the Heysell incident not included Liverpool fans then sympathy would have been much greater.
A lot of people consider it Karma but I'm not a Buddhist.

Worse than that mate, there was NO crushing or pushing to get up the steps to
the middle section once the fans were inside. People were just walking up in their
own time. they had no idea that they were adding to a crush below them. Police
were supposed to be filtering supporters to both wings. They did not do it.

I hate Liverpool fans me

but that could have been ANY Club that day.

Its been worked out that it would have taken just under 2 hours to get 23,000
fans through those turnstiles. Thats at a constant flow of 1 every 7 seconds.
Were the police unaware that thousands of fans leave it late at EVERY football
match to get into a ground? Course not.

the crushing outside was inevitable without filtering or opening more turnstiles

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

Of course they are. If they had stayed home it wouldn't have happened. If they had gone to Sheffield, tried to get a ticket, failed and stayed away from the ground, it wouldn't have happened. The reason people died was because there were loads more people trying to get into that end than there should have been.

Yes the police made mistakes and the government may well have covered certain things up but put it another way. If it was you who had turned up without a ticket, tried to force your way in and then that had happened, could you sleep at night?

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

Of course they are. If they had stayed home it wouldn't have happened. If they had gone to Sheffield, tried to get a ticket, failed and stayed away from the ground, it wouldn't have happened. The reason people died was because there were loads more people trying to get into that end than there should have been.

Yes the police made mistakes and the government may well have covered certain things up but put it another way. If it was you who had turned up without a ticket, tried to force your way in and then that had happened, could you sleep at night?

Howey. Its indisputable FACT that the Liverpool fans that day had tickets to enter via
the Leppings Lane end. Thats 24,000 through 23 turnstiles. Do the Maths.

Now Show the evidence where large groups of supporters tried to force their way in?
The police never offered any. There will always be groups trying to blag it. We would
have, I would have. Initially the police LIED and said a gate had been forced by 500
supporters. The truth came out... it was the POLICE COMMANDER ordered his men
to open the gate to alleviate the INEVITABLE crush outside. Police inside had already
reported that the central pens were full, and dangerously overcrowded. NOT ONE police
officer stood on the steps to the Central pen and directed the incoming crowds to the
side wings. So like most supporters (the vast majority with tickets) once that gate opened,
the crowd rushed for the Central pen to get the atmosphere. These supporters had no
idea that there were people being crushed in that ground. The police did!!

There were supposed to be 10,100 supporters in that Leppings Lane End, POLICE estimated
there were far less than that when the deaths occured, so where were all these hordes of
ticketless fans??? More to the point, where were the rest of the fans who DID have tickets....

Outside still trying to get in to an area only one third full

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

Of course they are. If they had stayed home it wouldn't have happened. If they had gone to Sheffield, tried to get a ticket, failed and stayed away from the ground, it wouldn't have happened. The reason people died was because there were loads more people trying to get into that end than there should have been.

Yes the police made mistakes and the government may well have covered certain things up but put it another way. If it was you who had turned up without a ticket, tried to force your way in and then that had happened, could you sleep at night?

Howey. Its indisputable FACT that the Liverpool fans that day had tickets to enter via
the Leppings Lane end. Thats 24,000 through 23 turnstiles. Do the Maths.

Now Show the evidence where large groups of supporters tried to force their way in?
The police never offered any. There will always be groups trying to blag it. We would
have, I would have. Initially the police LIED and said a gate had been forced by 500
supporters. The truth came out... it was the POLICE COMMANDER ordered his men
to open the gate to alleviate the INEVITABLE crush outside. Police inside had already
reported that the central pens were full, and dangerously overcrowded. NOT ONE police
officer stood on the steps to the Central pen and directed the incoming crowds to the
side wings. So like most supporters (the vast majority with tickets) once that gate opened,
the crowd rushed for the Central pen to get the atmosphere. These supporters had no
idea that there were people being crushed in that ground. The police did!!

There were supposed to be 10,100 supporters in that Leppings Lane End, POLICE estimated
there were far less than that when the deaths occured, so where were all these hordes of
ticketless fans??? More to the point, where were the rest of the fans who DID have tickets....

Outside still trying to get in to an area only one third full

Don't have evidence mate. I may be taking the police statements into account but I thought the issues were caused because of ticketless fans trying to get in. Which to me makes sense. Most people with tickets would stand outside moaning because they would miss kick-off but would not cause a crush. The Police opened the gates because of a crush outside. If you didn't have a ticket, what better way to get in than if the gates are open. I'm speculating and giving a counter argument.

But I'm not suggesting for one moment that any fan meant to crush another but I refute the allegation that they are in no way to blame.

Unfortunately it takes events of this magnitude to make people think twice about their actions. For 96 poor fcuckers it's too late and I hope their families get the truth even if the finger is pointed in some way at fellow supporters.

any documents that directly incriminate any government policy will have been destroyed, they will release documents, dont for one minute think it will be all of them!

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

I'd heard in the past that this was the reason that the files were being kept back cos there was eye witness reports of blame being placed on liverpool fans and also potential stealing but I have no idea if that is true and I certainly hope it isn't.

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Your way off the mark there mate.

It was obvious that there were too many people in the end but they still refused to open the gates of the fence surrounding the pitch while people were dying in front of them.

The ob let them in but wouldn't let those that were dying out!

Letting them die like that is manslaughter

im saying they are all to blame the ob didnt react to what was happening inside the end but the liverpool fans were no saints if they didnt rush in it wouldnt of happened ,the ob made mistake of opening the doors by the turnstyle if they didnt do this people would of been crushed at the turnstyles instead, the fact is there were too many fans there they are all to blame for it and should all admit it including the ticketless liver pool fans

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

True Wez .

I doubt it. There's a massive groundswell of belief in the media that Liverpool folk can do no wrong. Nobody talks about Heysel -well not in Liverpool anyway.

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

No, sorry, I don't buy this. Another case of self pity city syndrome. Yes, the police could have handled it better, much better. But you can't exonerate the drunken, ticketless scousers of any blame. If they knew it was an all ticket game, why turn up? OK, so we've all probably done it, but the fact is that some of these fans obviously tried to force their way in, and some succeeded. So there's some of your blame right there

Agree Nottage - well put.

I find that disgusting

Your both Football supporters. There has NEVER been a shred of evidence to suggest
that there were hundreds of ticketless fans trying to force their way in. Police STARTED
that rumour and were forced to retract it. The gates were most definitely NOT forced
open by fans..,they were opened by the police. The police ADMITTED that too.

Drunken?? Well well well, Cardiff City fans on a day like that would have been on the
Orange Squash would we.

I suggest you go and buy the Sun lads. Remember them Cardiff/Swansea fans fighting at
Wembley the other week. eh?

its nothing to do with the sun which i dont read anyway ,they are are all to blame just cause we are football surporters it doesnt make it right to turn up to a game with no tickets and force your way in then aspect to blame everyone else when your actions are part of why your own fans are killed THEY ARE ALL TO BLAME. Luckly if will never happen again do to the taylor report
alSO i find it disgusting that you are comparing a good friend of mine mikey to those f*cking english twats RIP MIKEY DYE

everyone is still forgeting that if the liverpool fans without tickets didnt turn up then it wouldnt of happened ,its terrible that fans are dead but they all got to take some of the blame police,fans and goverment over this.

Ticketless fans turned up in the hope that they could get a ticket too see their beloved team. They did not force open the gates, they were opened by the police. They are in no way too blame for this tragedy.

No, sorry, I don't buy this. Another case of self pity city syndrome. Yes, the police could have handled it better, much better. But you can't exonerate the drunken, ticketless scousers of any blame. If they knew it was an all ticket game, why turn up? OK, so we've all probably done it, but the fact is that some of these fans obviously tried to force their way in, and some succeeded. So there's some of your blame right there

Agree Nottage - well put.

I find that disgusting

Your both Football supporters. There has NEVER been a shred of evidence to suggest
that there were hundreds of ticketless fans trying to force their way in. Police STARTED
that rumour and were forced to retract it. The gates were most definitely NOT forced
open by fans..,they were opened by the police. The police ADMITTED that too.

Drunken?? Well well well, Cardiff City fans on a day like that would have been on the
Orange Squash would we.

I suggest you go and buy the Sun lads. Remember them Cardiff/Swansea fans fighting at
Wembley the other week. eh?

its nothing to do with the sun which i dont read anyway ,they are are all to blame just cause we are football surporters it doesnt make it right to turn up to a game with no tickets and force your way in then aspect to blame everyone else when your actions are part of why your own fans are killed THEY ARE ALL TO BLAME. Luckly if will never happen again do to the taylor report
alSO i find it disgusting that you are comparing a good friend of mine mikey to those f*cking english twats RIP MIKEY DYE

Id never insult Mikey? I knew him myself from about 83.

Cant believe you think i would? Mikey Dye was worth 100 scousers/mancs/cockneys

The fact is the scousers (and i dont even like scousers) were made to look like scum
by the police government and the sun sooner than tell the truth. There are no official
comments to be found anywhere now saying it was ticketless fans causing a crush or
charging a gate, or stealing from the dead, or twatting coppers. Cos it was all lies.
Sooner than take anything on the chin, the powers that be thought "f**k it, they are
only football fans, we can say what we like and people will believe us"

My point was, they were doing it then, and we all know they are still doing it now

RIP Mikey Dye

From Parliament today. Maybe one person will change their opinion:


So what are the facts about the Hillsborough disaster? For those that believe it was simply caused by fans turning up late – you are wrong – YOU ARE WRONG - in spite of a misprint on tickets requesting fans to turn up at 2.45pm and despite the fact that Liverpool fans only had 23 dilapidated turnstiles to enter the ground – (whilst Forrest fans had access through 60), half of the 10,100 supporters were already in the ground before 2.30pm - but there was congestion outside and it was obvious that with 5,000 supporters still to enter the ground at 2.30pm, there needed to be a delay in kick-off.

Anyone who has ever been to a match knows that there is always a higher entry rate as kick-off time approaches, - AND two years previous there had been a delayed kick-off to allow fans to get into the ground. But not this time, instead the response to the build up and congestion outside was to open a gate and allow fans onto the concourse - with disastrous consequences as there were no stewards or police inside to direct supporters into the half empty pens and away from the packed central pens.

Signage was poor and the design of the Leppins Lane meant that around 2,000 of this group made their way into the ground and headed straight for a tunnel (marked ‘Standing’) leading directly to pens 3 and 4.

This influx caused severe crushing and some fans began climbing over the lateral fences into the half empty pens on either side to escape.

It was later estimated that more than 3,000 supporters were admitted to the central pens - almost double the "safe" capacity.

At five minutes past three a crush barrier in pen 3 gave way, causing people to fall on top of each other. Cries to the Police for help were audible, but went unheard.

Mr Speaker, another falsehood was the claim that these were ticketless fans – but even officers at the turnstiles rejected this - and the HSE, who later analysed the evidence of all those that entered this end, concluded that the total numbers were between 9,373 and 10,124. The capacity was 10,100 and so the myth of ticketless fans can also be dispelled. AND just to confirm this - so as to leave no doubt - the report by Lord Justice Taylor stated there was no substance that ticketless fans caused the disaster.

I believe there was and still is a massive cover up by the government,however Maggie and her cronies decided to act against football violence in a heavy handed manner thats why fencing was introduced. She saw football as the enemy within, the same as she did against the miners.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

The families deserve to know the truth, Sadly some of them have now passed away. The government owe it to them to release the papers and help to achieve some form of closure

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

Read the comments from the Sheffield public who saw what happened that day Taffyapple!!!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

Read the comments from the Sheffield public who saw what happened that day Taffyapple!!!

Scousers are robbing fuckers. I couldnt agree more.

But what happened outside and inside that ground was not down
to alcohol, ticketless fans or fighting. Had City been playing there
we would have all been turning out the pubs probably later than
the scousers. The police shat on them. My only point in all, this
is that it could have been us, Wednesday, Man Utd, Chelsea, anyone

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

Read the comments from the Sheffield public who saw what happened that day Taffyapple!!!

Scousers are robbing fuckers. I couldnt agree more.

But what happened outside and inside that ground was not down
to alcohol, ticketless fans or fighting. Had City been playing there
we would have all been turning out the pubs probably later than
the scousers. The police shat on them. My only point in all, this
is that it could have been us, Wednesday, Man Utd, Chelsea, anyone

Hillsborough's held plenty of semi finals and big games with 40+ thousand crowd with out any problems, it's a bit ironic that it's the same Scouse tw*t's that killed innocent Juventus fans at the Heysel stadium in 1985????

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

Read the comments from the Sheffield public who saw what happened that day Taffyapple!!!

Scousers are robbing fuckers. I couldnt agree more.

But what happened outside and inside that ground was not down
to alcohol, ticketless fans or fighting. Had City been playing there
we would have all been turning out the pubs probably later than
the scousers. The police shat on them. My only point in all, this
is that it could have been us, Wednesday, Man Utd, Chelsea, anyone

Hillsborough's held plenty of semi finals and big games with 40+ thousand crowd with out any problems, it's a bit ironic that it's the same Scouse tw*t's that killed innocent Juventus fans at the Heysel stadium in 1985????

ill agree with that liverpool fans are far from perfect, but there is an element of these types of fans in every club
cardiff certainly have
but the big NUMBER ONE issue is crowd control which from my point of view was non existent at this game

Liverpool fans turned up en masse at their champions league final without tickets and carnage ensued. It was lucky there were only injuries no deaths at that match.

Gwyn,
As I watched the harrowing events unfold live on tv that afternoon I was saddened and sickened to my core. There is a simple reason why it happened, Gwyn. I have also read both the Interim and Final Reports on that afternoon's events. Mr Duckenfield I believed retired but not before, on the afternoon of the horror, issued a police statetment that, "Drunken Liverpool fans charged down doors ... etc." Liverpool fans that day were neither drunk, nor did they charge down anything. A sickening curtain of silence still pervades those events all these years on. Impunity is the privilege of the powerful no matter how groteqsue their actions have been. Truth always is truth even if a minority hold it. My feeling on Hillsborough is that, allegedly, everyone already knows it but ithas simply not been made public.
Steve.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 51610.html

Perhaps we''l find out tomorrow, it could be either or both, or as most suspect, more likely the Police and then protected by the Government.

Definitely both. The police were acting off their own bat but were implimenting
policies brought in by Thatcher to treat football supporters like shit

That's only because a lot of the so called footy fans acted like shit truth be told , being a Cardiff City I'm quite frankly embarrassed by the actions of some of our so called supporters even now on away days , never mind back in the 80's .

But back on Topic I not only blame the Police for what happened , but what ever seems to forget is it was those truly awful fences that cased the disaster. If they was one good thing to out of it all, it was those awful cages were all banned.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/police_urge_caution_over_release_of_tragic_hillsborough_images_1_3885386

This says it all about that day for me. Coppers looking the other
way as people are dying. Make sure there's no fighting eh?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/pol ... _1_3885386

Read the comments from the Sheffield public who saw what happened that day Taffyapple!!!

Scousers are robbing fuckers. I couldnt agree more.

But what happened outside and inside that ground was not down
to alcohol, ticketless fans or fighting. Had City been playing there
we would have all been turning out the pubs probably later than
the scousers. The police shat on them. My only point in all, this
is that it could have been us, Wednesday, Man Utd, Chelsea, anyone

Hillsborough's held plenty of semi finals and big games with 40+ thousand crowd with out any problems, it's a bit ironic that it's the same Scouse tw*t's that killed innocent Juventus fans at the Heysel stadium in 1985????

Agreed 100%. It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?

Liverpool fans turned up en masse at their champions league final without tickets and carnage ensued. It was lucky there were only injuries no deaths at that match.

And stealing tickets from the hands of children before the game